2013 Reds

Report: Stubbs and Gregorius for Choo and Donald “All but complete” (Fay) [update]

Danny Knobler at CBS Sports broke the news about an hour ago that the Reds are in the advanced stages of trade discussions with Cleveland. The Reds would trade Drew Stubbs and DiDi Gregorius for Shin Soo Choo. The report says the Reds would play Choo in centerfield, where he hasn’t played much recently.

The Reds would use Choo in center field even though he hasn’t played there for the Indians since 2009 and has played just ten MLB games at the position in total.  The Reds are banking on the 30-year-old’s offensive production being able to make up for whatever they might lose defensively.  The veteran owns a  .289/.381/.465 slash line across eight major league seasons.

The rumor was confirmed a few minutes ago by Jon Paul Morosi at Fox Sports.

Update: Possible three-team deal with Arizona. Gregorius to the Diamondbacks. Per Paul Hoynes of the CPD:

3 team dealing cooking among #Indians, Reds, Arizona. Shin-Soo Choo headed to Cincy. Asdrubal Cabrera not involved as of right now.

Update 2: John Fay tweets it’s “all but complete”

I’ve been out of pocket all day. Just confirmation that the Gregorius and Stubbs trade for Choo is all but complete.

Update 3: Ken Rosenthal tweets the second player the Reds will receive is Jason Donald

Three-team trade, per source, will look like this: Choo, Jason Donald to #Reds, Gregorius to #Diamondbacks, Stubbs, AZ pitcher to #Indians.

138 thoughts on “Report: Stubbs and Gregorius for Choo and Donald “All but complete” (Fay) [update]

  1. One of the pitchers (only?) from D-backs is Trevor Bauer. Cabrera NOT being traded.

    Indians tried to trade Cabrera for Bauer in WM in a trade that fell through. D-backs GM Towers loves Gregorius though, so more willing to make the deal now.

    All that’s left is what the Reds are getting back. Figured it out- 9 years of team control over two players for 1 year of Choo. That’s why Reds are getting another player in the trade.

  2. CI3J
    Isn’t this move today about scoring runs, OBP and speed at the top of the order>?

    Phillips scored 86 runs with a 321 OBP and stole 15 bases

    Cozart scored 72 runs with a 288 OBP and stole 4 bases

    That and as redsfanman suggests, Phillips is a beast in the 2 hole

    Cozart will hit 7 for the same reason that Stubbs would hit 8 if he is still with this team

  3. I was just talking with a friend this morning about how I wanted Baker to declare CF an open position going into the spring to light the proverbial fire under Stubbs, and possibly set him up mentally for a 2013 platoon with Heisey/Paul. Even if he won the job outright, I think he could have more success batting lower in the order. But, Choo? Yes, please. Baker could always bat Phillips 4th and Ludwick 6th too depending on how things go with Cozart and Frazier, but I don’t see a scenario where BP will hit below 4th.

  4. @steveschoen: We’d only get Choo for one year, because he only has 1 year left on his contract.

    We wouldn’t get any draft picks for losing Choo unless we offered him a contract worth at least $12mil. Not likely to happen.

    So that’s about it. Choo for one year. Hamilton the next.

  5. We are definitely offering him the 12 mil. Boras as his agent plus ridiculous interacts this year.

  6. I think the trade will look like this:

    Reds get – Choo, AA (not top 10) prospect that has an upside, but not fully developed

    Indians get – Stubbs, Skaggs or Bauer

    Dbacks get – Gregorious (who is the Reds #4 prospect) and something else not from the Reds

    The Dbacks GM “loves” Gregorious, so that something else may come off the table, unless it is a guy who can hold a position for a high level prospect in ARI to get ready for the big leagues.

  7. Dear Walt,

    Please buy injury insurance.

    Sincerely,
    Ryan Madson

    /With apologies if this is not possible in a trade vs. a free agent signing.

  8. Contracts. I meant contracts. To expound, he’d make a LOT more money in FA, so he’s reject it. No way the Reds don’t offer it unless he has a bad year or injury.

  9. Our Lineup will be POTENT with Choo batting leadoff:

    Choo 20-22HR
    Philips 22-25HR
    Votto 27-30HR
    Ludwick 28-32HR
    Bruce 35-40HR
    Frazier 22-25HR
    Cozart 20-22HR
    Hannigan/Meso 15-20HR

    That’s roughly 160-170 HR’s from our starting lineup with at least 5 players batting above .275 (Choo, Philips, Votto, Frazier & Hannigan/Meso)! I think Ludwick may swing for the fences a little more this year bringing his average down a little bit.

    But for an NL lineup with no DH that’s pretty daunting for any pitcher, especially if you don’t rely on ground outs.
    Go Reds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  10. My prediction:

    Reds get- Choo, Chris Perez or Vinnie Pestano

    Indians get- Stubbs, Bauer

    DBacks get- Gregorious

    • My prediction:

      Reds get- Choo, Chris Perez or Vinnie Pestano

      Indians get- Stubbs, Bauer

      DBacks get- Gregorious

      If the Reds get Pestano or Perez, I will fall out of chair.

  11. @L.A.Red: Sorry I skipped Frazier when adding my HR’s. It would be between 189-216HRs. And if you look at the numbers on an individual basis I didn’t over exaggerate my projections. I think all players will see an increase in power because collectively they will see more fastballs due to the fear of walking the guy behind.

  12. I really don’t see as much increase in HR’s as I do in AVG and runs scored.

    But, the real question is what will the Reds record be when Stubbs DOESN’T score a run? #dumbrandomstatrepeatedadnauseum

  13. The D’Backs sign McCarthy to bolster their starting pitching and they still need a SS. This deal is getting closer to completion.

  14. @L.A.Red: those are really optimistic guesses. i agree that the reds will have a lot of power.

    but choo’s only hit 22 once, phillips hasn’t hit 20 in a while, ludwick only hit 30 once, bruce never more than 35.

    seems like you picked the best case scenario for everyone.

    • @beroader: Maybe if Choo’s on 1st, we could have him hide behind the first baseman.

      “Choo’s on first, What’s on second, I Don’t Know’s on third.”

  15. Here are the numbers that matter:

    1. Choo .373/.441
    2. Phillips .321/.439
    3. Votto .474/.567
    4. Ludwick .346/.531
    5. Bruce .327/.514
    6. Frazier .331/.498
    7. Cozart .288/.399
    8. Hanigan .365/.338

    That is a very, very good lineup. Is it perfect? No, it’s not. But it will score more runs than the Reds did last year and it keeps disastrously low OBP guys out of the top of the order for the first time since Old Hoss Radborn was in knee-breeches.

    • Reds getting Jason Donald in deal with Choo. Not too shabby. seems no more Hannahan.

      I don’t think that rules out Jack Hannahan – Hannahan is a corner infielder competing for Miguel Cairo’s role, Jason Donald is a middle infielder competing for Wilson Valdez’s role.

      @L.A.Red: I think this move puts several guys in positions to success. Choo, of course, heads to GABP, and is motivated by the ‘free agent effect’ that mysteriously makes players hit better. Phillips can focus entirely on filling one role – in this case hitting ahead of Votto. Maybe that can increase his homerun totals. Votto should have more baserunners to drive in. Hopefully Ludwick can avoid repeating last season’s early season struggles, which would hopefully be enough to off-set any performance decreases in 2013. Jay Bruce has certainty about his role again, as does Frazier. Cozart is now free of the pressure of the top of the lineup.

  16. Three-team trade, per source, will look like this: Choo, Jason Donald to #Reds, Gregorius to #Diamondbacks, Stubbs, AZ pitcher to #Indians

    Ken Rosenthal

  17. @CI3J: If this trade goes through, I’ll be ecstatic to be wrong about Walt Jocketty. And relieved that the Twins bailed on the Revere trade.

    Kind of surprised you’re against this trade. With Choo in the lineup, there’s a better chance your big prediction that the Reds offense will finish in the top five in the NL in runs will actually come true, unlike last season. (They finished ninth and were as close to fifth as they were fifteenth in a sixteen team league).

    • @CI3J: If this trade goes through, I’ll be ecstatic to be wrong about Walt Jocketty. And relieved that the Twins bailed on the Revere trade.

      Kind of surprised you’re against this trade. With Choo in the lineup, there’s a better chance your big prediction that the Reds offense will finish in the top five in the NL in runs will actually come true, unlike last season. (They finished ninth and were as close to fifth as they were fifteenth in a sixteen team league).

      How is it wrong about Jocketty? A sample size of exactly one is kind of small. Maybe I’m forgetting, but has Jocketty made one trade since he got here to get a hitter with a good OBP?
      I’m not a hater of Jocketty, he’s made many good moves along with some bad, but I don’t understand how this proves anything.

      On the other hand, there seem to be people here that say the Reds always opt for pitching and defense. Ludwick’s signing is counterexample #1, and desiring Choo instead of Stubbs is counterexample #2. In fact, it seems they are trading Gregarious for the right to replace Stubbs with Choo. That’s not to say that the team doesn’t value pitching and defense, because they surely do, but it seems they think hitting and scoring runs is important, too.

  18. Jason Donald nothing to get excited about. 28 year old utility infielder who’s hitting completely dropped off the ledge last year. He hit .202/.246/.282 – that’s Wilson Valdez bad. Before last year, he was very respectable. Gotta hope last year was an anomaly.

    • Jason Donald nothing to get excited about. 28 year old utility infielder who’s hitting completely dropped off the ledge last year. He hit .202/.246/.282 – that’s Wilson Valdez bad. Before last year, he was very respectable. Gotta hope last year was an anomaly.

      Not much to get excited about, but his careers numbers look like he’s a decade younger and half as expensive version of Miguel Cairo… except he plays 2B, 3B, SS instead of Cairo’s 1B, 3B, 2B. Terrible 2012 (still not as terrible as Cairo’s 2012), but if he can play at his career average, not a terrible backup utility player.

      So he’ll back up Frazier/Cozart/Phillips, and Frazier will back up Votto?

      • Not much to get excited about, but his careers numbers look like he’s a decade younger and half as expensive version of Miguel Cairo… except he plays 2B, 3B, SS instead of Cairo’s 1B, 3B, 2B. Terrible 2012 (still not as terrible as Cairo’s 2012), but if he can play at his career average, not a terrible backup utility player.

        So he’ll back up Frazier/Cozart/Phillips, and Frazier will back up Votto?

        The Reds are still pursuing Jack Hannahan, last I heard. I assume he would become the backup at 1b and 3b while Jason Donald would back up at 2b and SS. Also Rolen’s role is still uncertain.

  19. If the DBacks give up Bauer for Gregorious, I’d almost prefer the Reds just make that deal themselves…almost. I think.

  20. What makes the difference here is that Bauer is in the dog house at ARI and Gregorious is “loved” by their GM.

    Their GM is obviously taking this to a personal level seeing the Gregorious isn’t regarded as a top 100 prospect.

  21. Surely, Arizona has to be getting something more out of this trade. I’m hoping it’s not another player from the Reds.

  22. Trevor Bauer, it doesn’t matter where he’s listed in the rankings. The Reds want to win in 2013 and they have enough pitching prospects; they need a leadoff hitter. They got one in Choo. The only way I’d want Bauer is if he could be traded again for another leadoff hitter with a ~.380 OBP.

  23. Donald seems like a logical option. He can play anywhere in the IF albeit with below average defense. He is under team control for 5 years. The irony is that he is also represented by Scott Boras. That would leave complete flexibility for the other utility player.

  24. @redsfanman: Oh I agree, I’m still pleased with the trade from the Reds point of view. I’m just saying that I’m surprised by what Arizona is doing.

  25. There has to be a bit more to this trade – on the Cleveland-Arizona axis. Otherwise, the Reds would just trade Stubbs to Cleveland for Choo and Gregorius to Arizona for Bauer. Bauer >>> Donald

    • Exactly.

      There has to be a bit more to this trade – on the Cleveland-Arizona axis. Otherwise, the Reds would just trade Stubbs to Cleveland for Choo and Gregorius to Arizona for Bauer.

    • There has to be a bit more to this trade – on the Cleveland-Arizona axis. Otherwise, the Reds would just trade Stubbs to Cleveland for Choo and Gregorius to Arizona for Bauer. Bauer >>> Donald

      obviously the indians wouldn’t trade choo for stubbs if they’re trying to get stubbs and bauer for choo.

      just saw a tweet that there could be 7 to 9 players involved overall, so it will probably be more than gregorious for bauer.

      choo, donald, stubbs, gregorious, bauer is 5. so i would guess that the indians are adding a little to the deal, and AZ will send another player back to the indians.

      bauer > gregorious. so they’ll try to balance that with other prospects.

  26. Are “sources” sure that Arizona is essentially trading a pitching prospect for Gregorious? . . . . Now, I like Didi (more than I like Cozart), but that just doesn’t seem right.

  27. So as of now the Reds have:

    OF: Bruce, Ludwick, Choo, Heisey, Paul
    IF: Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Frazier, Donald
    C: Hannigan, Mesoraco
    SP: Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Bailey, Chapman
    BP: Broxton, Marshall, Arrendondo, Ondrusek, Simon, LeCure, Hoover

    That leaves one more spot open. Leake obviously is sent to the minors. Donald could start in AAA.

    I like the idea of signing Hannahan and another catcher to let Mesoraco start in AAA. After the Choo signing, I am not sure how much more cash the Reds can throw around.

    Is this a world series team?

    • So as of now the Reds have:

      OF: Bruce, Ludwick, Choo, Heisey, Paul
      IF: Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Frazier, Donald
      C: Hannigan, Mesoraco
      SP: Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Bailey, Chapman
      BP: Broxton, Marshall, Arrendondo, Ondrusek, Simon, LeCure, Hoover

      That leaves one more spot open. Leake obviously is sent to the minors. Donald could start in AAA.

      I like the idea of signing Hannahan and another catcher to let Mesoraco start in AAA. After the Choo signing, I am not sure how much more cash the Reds can throw around.

      Is this a world series team?

      Last year’s team was a World Series team.

  28. The Reds were very sneaky in getting Ludwick to take a discount, meanwhile planning on trading him for a CF the entire time.

  29. Why the talk about Didi vs Cozart? Cozart, IMO, should have won the NL Gold Glove this year. He’ll win a couple before its over. He’s proven as a capable hitter when not stuck at lead off. Put him at 7 and he could become an All Star SS based on proven major league performance. You take that EVERY DAY over a prospect. Yeah Didi is younger, but he’s two years away and no one here can say he’ll be a lick better than Cozart when he gets here. I’ll take the proven defense at SS. To get your new lead off hitter and starting CF for the guy who just basically set two straight strikeout records and a AA prospect is a coup, especially when it leaves Cingrani and Mesoraco in the organization. This could turn out to be WJs masterpiece if the numbers work out next season.

  30. Making comment based on Twitter & conjecture (Gawd forbid facts) but I like any deal where Stubbs is traded. No more Dusty saying, after another 0 for 20 Stubbs stretch: “gotta get him goin’”!

  31. @rfay00: I just disagree with a few minor details. Leake could realistically move to the bullpen and Ondrusek could go to AAA, or to the rotation if there’s an injury. It depends on how spring training turns out. Jason Donald is what – 28? They need a backup shortstop, I doubt the Reds acquired him to go to Louisville. Sending Mesoraco to AAA also seems likely.

    I think that’s a World Series team. At least the definite favorites in the NL Central and a team that has improved from last year.

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