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Danny Knobler at CBS Sports broke the news about an hour ago that the Reds are in the advanced stages of trade discussions with Cleveland. The Reds would trade Drew Stubbs and DiDi Gregorius for Shin Soo Choo. The report says the Reds would play Choo in centerfield, where he hasn’t played much recently.
The Reds would use Choo in center field even though he hasn’t played there for the Indians since 2009 and has played just ten MLB games at the position in total. The Reds are banking on the 30-year-old’s offensive production being able to make up for whatever they might lose defensively. The veteran owns a .289/.381/.465 slash line across eight major league seasons.
The rumor was confirmed a few minutes ago by Jon Paul Morosi at Fox Sports.
Update: Possible three-team deal with Arizona. Gregorius to the Diamondbacks. Per Paul Hoynes of the CPD:
3 team dealing cooking among
#Indians, Reds, Arizona. Shin-Soo Choo headed to Cincy. Asdrubal Cabrera not involved as of right now.
Update 2: John Fay tweets it’s “all but complete”
I’ve been out of pocket all day. Just confirmation that the Gregorius and Stubbs trade for Choo is all but complete.
Update 3: Ken Rosenthal tweets the second player the Reds will receive is Jason Donald
Three-team trade, per source, will look like this: Choo, Jason Donald to
#Reds, Gregorius to#Diamondbacks, Stubbs, AZ pitcher to#Indians.
Make this trade……..now please.
Looks like Cleveland may flip Gregorius to the Diamondbacks for pitching. AZ has been looking for a SS. We might get a pretty decent second player out of this.
Anybody else feeling a little like Ralph Wiggum? http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/choo-choo-choose-you
HOLY FAJSKSB SHSIWNS HOLY-
That was literally my first reaction (censored).
It’s a 3 way at this point, according to mlbtr. If they can pull this off, WS is not gonna be beyond our grasp.
Three team deal? That means we might get something more from AZ. Paul Hoynes of the Cleveland Plain Dealer (the person reporting the 3-way deal) is the gold standard for reporting on Cleveland, as far as it goes.
Actually, my first reaction was “No way”.
Followed by ^
@Steve Mancuso: I think a third team only enhances the value of the trade from the Reds perspective. They will get a little extra return than they would have with just the Indians, imo. This is just more potentially good news!
So a year of Choo in CF, and then he moves to left when Hamilton comes up? Or maybe Hamilton is back on track to come up as a SS now?
I’m really excited. I like Dusty Baker, but I’d like him better if regardless of who he plays the result is someone with a good obp.
Also, I can’t decide if I would like this deal better as is or if Gregorious was swapped for Cozart.
A year of Choo in CF or RF. End of story.
There is a remote possibility of resigning him but that should not even be a consideration in this deal (I doubt it is).
Cozart is the better candidate for our ‘window’ of opportunity this next year or two to do something drastic in the post season. Plus he is more proven as a MLB player so I am okay even though I would have preferred to kept Didi had the circumstances been different.
I’m on board. I think Stubbs coule end up being a good player, but he needs a change of scenery. Gregorious’ ceiling isn’t much higher than Cozart’s, and Cozart has shown he is a Gold Glove caliber defender and we only need Choo to man CF for a year or two at most before Hamilton is ready. My guess is Hamilton gets called up in September and gets a little playing time and then works in a platoon in 2014. What’s Choo’s current contract status?
One more year then free agent. He will be looking for Pagan/Victorino deals. This is a one year arrangement plus a prospect for making a qualifying offer.
How the heck are people supposed to work today? I don’t know. Winter meetings are over! Now this! Well, fortunately the deal would satisfy most of the Reds’ offseason needs.
It’ll be interesting to see who plays CF. Ultimately that’s up to Dusty Baker, not the person who wrote the article. I think you can flip a coin between Bruce and Choo – neither of them have done it in years. It could be something interesting to watch in spring training.
I always thought Didi Gregorius was a blocked prospect like Yonder Alonso. If the Reds have a ‘window of opportunity’ to win the World Series it’s now, not a few years from now. I’m happy to keep Cozart and move Didi while he still has trade value.
Does Choo speak English well? I mean, after all these years Johnny Cueto doesn’t give interviews in English even if he can speak with his teammates. I’m not sure if the Reds have ever had a South Korean player before?
What does Jocketty accomplish in this trae?
1. Pitching staff, present and future, remains completely intact.
2. Dusty is given a quality leadoff hitter for the first time – no question of who deserves the job.
3. Brandon Phillips sure to return to the #2 spot, where he belongs.
4. Arguably the least popular player (Stubbs) gone.
5. Reds send the clear message of going all-in for 2013.
6. Choo has a catchy name.
7. Leake, Cingrani, and other prospects don’t need to be (as) worried about a trade.
@redsfanman: and I will add No. 8: Arroyo won’t have to face Choo this season
You have to Choo-se wisely, Walt!
On a serious note, that second player could be better than we could hope for- or worse. Aww… Just realized-Reds still need utility infielder. That’s prolly second player.
1.460 OPS vs Reds. How the hell does that happen?
Do this yesterday. We aren’t giving much up. Use H-Rod as the utility IF.
See, this is an all-in move for 2013, but we aren’t sacrificing much future either. This move is just about this year, but we aren’t crippled at all. Very, very few negatives with this deal, if any. If the Reds can get another player/prosepct from either team, things are looking exceptional.
“All but complete?”………WOOOOOOO! Walt for President!
Choo
Phillips
Votto
Ludwick
Bruce
Frazier
Cozart
Hanigan
Pitcher
I think Dusty loves Cozart hitting high in the lineup, so I’d flip Phillips and Cozart in your projection.
I’ve warmed up to the idea of this trade as time has gone on. I just REALLY hope there was some way we could lock Choo up, but I know that’s a pipe dream. So maybe we’ll trade him at the deadline for a nice haul if Hamilton is ready by then? Or if he walks, we get draft picks.
And also, guess this shoots all kinds of holes in your theory that
“The Reds are Paleozoic. They shop for batting average and speed. They ignore the skill of walking, the stat of OBP or the value of hitting with even doubles-power.And sadly, the evidence is mounting this isn’t just Dusty Baker’s outlook, it’s also Walt Jocketty’s. Jocketty, after all, was the Reds’ GM who signed Willy Taveras.”
I’d say Choo turns that on its head.
@CI3J:
Now you’re thinking like WJ! Choo will get a quilying offer from the Reds after the 2013 season. He wilol decline the offer and the Reds get another pre 2nd round draft pick. Or it’s possible that WJ gets an offer he simply can’t refuse at the trade deadline, but it would have to be VERY significant.
Ouch. I guess we heard a bunch today about how Dusty worked so hard to trade pitching for Ben Revere and might need to be fired as a result. There’s an end to that.
I have a feeling that Dusty’s Baker’s Baseball IQ and popularity just went up. Suddenly, with a good candidate to hit leadoff, he’ll be able (or smart enough) to choose a good leadoff hitter for the first time with the Reds. Suddenly Brandon Phillips is the obvious candidate to hit second. Cozart is headed to the bottom of the order, no question. It’s funny how one new player can make all the other players fall into place.
I said this before, and I’ll say it again: Dusty seems to prefer having Cozart hit high in the order, so don’t be surprised if he’s hitting 2nd and not Phillips.
I think Dusty has made Cozart hit high in the order out of necessity – there’s an opening that SOMEBODY has to fill. Phillips always hits 1 (Choo), 2, 3 (Votto), or 4th (Ludwick) and all of those other spots will now be filled by guys who are entrenched. Who’s the big name player, the better player, the former All Star, more popular player, the guy more respected by Dusty? Brandon Phillips… not Cozart.
I think some stereotypes about who Dusty bats where will be torn to shreds by Choo’s arrival. Maybe Cozart will bat 1st or 2nd sometimes due to injuries or days off.
Remember Adam Eaton? Any chance he comes to Cincy and the Reds move Billy back to SS like someone said? Maybe one of those young pitchers from AZ. Hmmmmmm…
@Steve Mancuso: the phrase that comes to mind here is “dusty-proofing” the lineup …
And I’ve got a feeling the 3 way part of this makes it not happen. D-backs apparently want Gregorius rather than Cabrera, and who knows what the Indians want? Apparently, it’s:
Reds trade: Stubbs and Gregorius
Indians trade: Choo and ?
D-backs trade: young pitching
I don’t see how the Reds can get much out of the Indians or the D-backs in this situation.
Reds receive: Choo and ?
Indians receive: young pitching
D-backs receive: Gregorius
See? If that’s all the D-backs get, then they have NO reason to trade much to the Indians, who would have little incentive to trade Choo and another player to the Reds. Even if you assume the D-backs are trading the mystery player or there is no mystery player at all it still doesn’t make a whole lot of sense from the D-backs standpoint.
Hmm. This almost seems to be potentially detrimental to an Aroldis switch to the rotation. Pitchers with his stuff, when they get hit, give up fly balls. Our outfield D is going to go WAAAAAY down. Leake may be better suited with this defense, as he’s a groundball machine. Interesting dynamic.
I guess it all depends on how highly Gregorius is valued.
Until Reds announce I don’t believe it…
@vegastypo: lol, yep
@rhayex: well, you left out stubbs there. if it’s a three team deal, we really have no idea what the indians would be sending to the dbacks or receiving.
I thought I could ignore baseball for a while. The Giants series took a lot out of everyone, right?
Is this a joke? Stubbs and Gregarious for Choo? Sorry, but really good fielding SS’s are a pretty common thing, relative to Shin Shoo Choos. Stubbs is Stubbs. Is this really happening?
This is WJ dealing from strength. He doesn’t have to make this deal or any deal if it doesn’t work for the Reds. Didi is still a prospect, unproven at AAA. His defense gives him a high upside, but he has to be able to hit at the major league level and that is still a big question. Stubbs’ time in Cincinnati is limited no matter what. BHam is on the way. the Redsd would have had to make a decision on Cozart/Didi going forward, and I think they like what they’ve seen from Cozart. The Reds would be giving up nothing they need and getting something they do need. I think the key is the unnamed 2nd player coming to the Reds.
Yeah, I realized that. I’m just not sold on the idea that this is all it’ll take to get Choo AND a second, potentially decent player. I thought we’d need to trade more, particularly a pitching prospect. I guess with the D-backs in on it, we had to give up less to get more?
@rhayex: The Dbacks GM apparently “loves” Gregorious. So yes.
Faye tweets “Would assume choo will play center. Hit .310/.393/.493 in leadoff spot this year. Have not been able to reach jocketty.” There’s a big DUH!!! WJ is in the middle of the biggest Reds transaction of the offseason and Faye can’t reach him…
I wouldn’t call that “a big DUH” – he’s normally a RF, the same as Jay Bruce. Either of them could be asked to move to center. If it’s Choo who moves, fine.
Hey, @Hank Aarons Teammate:, would you please explain this to @redsfanman:
@Shchi Cossack: Jocketty: “Hold on a minute, I can’t complete this trade just yet, I have to call John Fay with a rumor update.”
I’m hoping Walt fleeces somebody for a nice player/prospect here by selling high on Gregorious. Although, even if this were just Stubbs/Didi for Choo, I cannot be disappointed.
Youk is a Yankee. Hell has frozen over.
Just read on Twitter that A Cabrera might be going to the Reds? That makes no sense to me. Makes more sense for him to be going to the D-backs or staying put.
Also, second player is a position player, so LOOGY is officially out.
@CI3J: Phillips at 7 and Cozy at 2? Is that sarcasm? Because I’m not picking up the funny in that…
@rhayex: Interesting…so what does that mean for Cozart? Getting dealt elsewhere? Or is Cabrera a trade piece for the Reds? I’m confused by this…I’m terribly vexed.
CF problem? Have footrace between Choo and Bruce. Winner plays CF.
There.
I laughed a lot after this. Excellent.
I’m listening to the 700WLW Reds hot stove show. They got an interesting question about why Choo moved from CF originally. The broadcasters feel that he was moved because Grady Sizemore was entrenched in CF, not because Choo did badly there. It’ll be interesting to see how he does. Choo is supposed to be great defensively in RF, like Jay Bruce.
There’s no doubt that the Reds’ defense takes a hit going from Stubbs to either Bruce or Choo. However, Choo’s offense is so much better than Stubbs (assuming, say, they both play similar to 2012; there is uncertainty, of course) that the Reds benefit significantly.
I might think the Reds will be in the market, if not this offseason, then during the season depending on how the CF position is doing, to go after a cheap, terrible hitting, good fielding CF to stick in there in the 8th and 9th.
All this assumes the trade is going to happen in the first place.
@redsfanman: I really wanted to try Bruce in CF last season when it could have meant getting Frazier playing time in the outfield, but if Choo is only a placeholder, let Bruce stay in right rather than switch for just one year. I can’t imagine that Choo would be “that bad” in center, but if he is, bring Heisey in later in the game …
i’m guess that what is going on right now is that the indians have told the reds that they are in if they can get the diamondbacks to agree to a deal right now rather than later.
the indians don’t want to get caught in the lurch with 2 shortstops. if/when they can hammer out a deal with AZ for pitching prospects, then the deal will go through.
as far as cabrera coming to the reds, don’t believe everything you read on twitter. first off, who tweeted it?
It’s a Cleveland reporter, I believe, but I don’t know who. I’d assume he’d be flipped. There’s no way the Reds trade Cozart and Gregorius and keep Cabrera, if they DO acquire him somehow.
Also, mlbtr reports that D-backs want Gregorius more than Cabrera. Does this mean the Reds were supposed to get him first, then attempt to flip him to the D-backs? I’m confused.
I have this sickening feeling that all RLN is sitting in a circle singing “Kum Bah Yah” right now. Make it happen WJ!!!
@Hank Aarons Teammate: Welcome back Hank! I’m a big supporter of Stubbs but I agree that Choo is one of the (few) guys who CAN out-hit the difference in fielding performance. Also, as a Scott Boras-represented free-agent-to-be Choo should benefit from the ‘free agent effect’ that somehow makes them work harder and do better.
@CI3J: Not funny. I still don’t like that joke.
@rhayex: i don’t think there’s much to be confused about, because i don’t believe that there is a chance in hell that the reds are getting cabrera.
i think this is the deal the indians want:
reds – choo, prospect
indians – stubbs, gregorious, 2 pitchers
dbacks – cabrera
and i think this is the deal the dbacks want:
reds – choo, prospect
indians – stubbs, 1 pitcher
dbacks – gregorious
i think that because both the indians and the dbacks are rebuilding, and both probably want the young cheap SS, rather than the expensive guy for 2 years.
hopefully they can sort that out, because either way, i like it a lot for the reds.
If Walt pulls Choo and Cabrera in this trade (which I know will not happen), I will put a saddle on my pet unicorn “Ed” (Armbrister) and fly to GABP to let out a celebratory “WOOOOO!”
First, I like this. But, second, I think the “effectiveness” of this trade, like many, will need to be judged in the next couple of years. Most directly, do we keep Choo when Hamilton is up here, moving Choo to left? Could we afford him at that time? I believe if we lose him when Hamilton comes up, we get a draft pick or two, correct? If all we get is Choo for 1-2 years, I don’t think we give us Didi. I haven’t considered all of the contract scenarios yet. That’s what I believe will be key.
Shoot, I’d almost rather move Cozart than Didi with this trade. Yes, Cozart has a year up here now, and Didi is unproven above AA. But, Didi is also a much younger player, and his glove is suppose to be major league ready right now.
I’d much rather have a 4 hole bat. But, I will definitely take this.
Whoever plays CF after this trade, it won’t make a difference. First, there would be few to hold up to Stubbs in the defense, even though Stubbs never went forward or back very well. But, what we lose in defense, we would gain in offense a lot.
One of the pitchers (only?) from D-backs is Trevor Bauer. Cabrera NOT being traded.
Indians tried to trade Cabrera for Bauer in WM in a trade that fell through. D-backs GM Towers loves Gregorius though, so more willing to make the deal now.
All that’s left is what the Reds are getting back. Figured it out- 9 years of team control over two players for 1 year of Choo. That’s why Reds are getting another player in the trade.
CI3J
Isn’t this move today about scoring runs, OBP and speed at the top of the order>?
Phillips scored 86 runs with a 321 OBP and stole 15 bases
Cozart scored 72 runs with a 288 OBP and stole 4 bases
That and as redsfanman suggests, Phillips is a beast in the 2 hole
Cozart will hit 7 for the same reason that Stubbs would hit 8 if he is still with this team
I was just talking with a friend this morning about how I wanted Baker to declare CF an open position going into the spring to light the proverbial fire under Stubbs, and possibly set him up mentally for a 2013 platoon with Heisey/Paul. Even if he won the job outright, I think he could have more success batting lower in the order. But, Choo? Yes, please. Baker could always bat Phillips 4th and Ludwick 6th too depending on how things go with Cozart and Frazier, but I don’t see a scenario where BP will hit below 4th.
@steveschoen: We’d only get Choo for one year, because he only has 1 year left on his contract.
We wouldn’t get any draft picks for losing Choo unless we offered him a contract worth at least $12mil. Not likely to happen.
So that’s about it. Choo for one year. Hamilton the next.
We are definitely offering him the 12 mil. Boras as his agent plus ridiculous interacts this year.
I think the trade will look like this:
Reds get – Choo, AA (not top 10) prospect that has an upside, but not fully developed
Indians get – Stubbs, Skaggs or Bauer
Dbacks get – Gregorious (who is the Reds #4 prospect) and something else not from the Reds
The Dbacks GM “loves” Gregorious, so that something else may come off the table, unless it is a guy who can hold a position for a high level prospect in ARI to get ready for the big leagues.
Dear Walt,
Please buy injury insurance.
Sincerely,
Ryan Madson
/With apologies if this is not possible in a trade vs. a free agent signing.
Contracts. I meant contracts. To expound, he’d make a LOT more money in FA, so he’s reject it. No way the Reds don’t offer it unless he has a bad year or injury.
Our Lineup will be POTENT with Choo batting leadoff:
Choo 20-22HR
Philips 22-25HR
Votto 27-30HR
Ludwick 28-32HR
Bruce 35-40HR
Frazier 22-25HR
Cozart 20-22HR
Hannigan/Meso 15-20HR
That’s roughly 160-170 HR’s from our starting lineup with at least 5 players batting above .275 (Choo, Philips, Votto, Frazier & Hannigan/Meso)! I think Ludwick may swing for the fences a little more this year bringing his average down a little bit.
But for an NL lineup with no DH that’s pretty daunting for any pitcher, especially if you don’t rely on ground outs.
Go Reds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My prediction:
Reds get- Choo, Chris Perez or Vinnie Pestano
Indians get- Stubbs, Bauer
DBacks get- Gregorious
If the Reds get Pestano or Perez, I will fall out of chair.
@L.A.Red: Sorry I skipped Frazier when adding my HR’s. It would be between 189-216HRs. And if you look at the numbers on an individual basis I didn’t over exaggerate my projections. I think all players will see an increase in power because collectively they will see more fastballs due to the fear of walking the guy behind.
So is Bauer definitely going to be part of this deal? Isn’t he a top 15 prospect in all of baseball? Is there any way he can come the Reds’ way?
Also, this: http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/07/trevor-bauer-has-fallen-out-of-favor-with-diamondbacks/
I really don’t see as much increase in HR’s as I do in AVG and runs scored.
But, the real question is what will the Reds record be when Stubbs DOESN’T score a run? #dumbrandomstatrepeatedadnauseum
The D’Backs sign McCarthy to bolster their starting pitching and they still need a SS. This deal is getting closer to completion.
@hermanbates:
Dbacks would have to get a lot more than Didi in return for Bauer.
@L.A.Red: those are really optimistic guesses. i agree that the reds will have a lot of power.
but choo’s only hit 22 once, phillips hasn’t hit 20 in a while, ludwick only hit 30 once, bruce never more than 35.
seems like you picked the best case scenario for everyone.
Please, oh, please, oh please…..
I wonder if it will throw Votto off having to bat with runners on base…
That is wicked funny.
@beroader: Maybe if Choo’s on 1st, we could have him hide behind the first baseman.
“Choo’s on first, What’s on second, I Don’t Know’s on third.”
Here are the numbers that matter:
1. Choo .373/.441
2. Phillips .321/.439
3. Votto .474/.567
4. Ludwick .346/.531
5. Bruce .327/.514
6. Frazier .331/.498
7. Cozart .288/.399
8. Hanigan .365/.338
That is a very, very good lineup. Is it perfect? No, it’s not. But it will score more runs than the Reds did last year and it keeps disastrously low OBP guys out of the top of the order for the first time since Old Hoss Radborn was in knee-breeches.
Putting Choo in the leadoff spot will probably mean 50 extra runs. That’s an impact move.
Reds getting Jason Donald in deal with Choo. Not too shabby. seems no more Hannahan.
I don’t think that rules out Jack Hannahan – Hannahan is a corner infielder competing for Miguel Cairo’s role, Jason Donald is a middle infielder competing for Wilson Valdez’s role.
@L.A.Red: I think this move puts several guys in positions to success. Choo, of course, heads to GABP, and is motivated by the ‘free agent effect’ that mysteriously makes players hit better. Phillips can focus entirely on filling one role – in this case hitting ahead of Votto. Maybe that can increase his homerun totals. Votto should have more baserunners to drive in. Hopefully Ludwick can avoid repeating last season’s early season struggles, which would hopefully be enough to off-set any performance decreases in 2013. Jay Bruce has certainty about his role again, as does Frazier. Cozart is now free of the pressure of the top of the lineup.
Rosenthal says we get Choo and Jason Donald…
Three-team trade, per source, will look like this: Choo, Jason Donald to #Reds, Gregorius to #Diamondbacks, Stubbs, AZ pitcher to #Indians
Ken Rosenthal
Donald was involved in a very historic play in Detroit a year or so back…
@CI3J: If this trade goes through, I’ll be ecstatic to be wrong about Walt Jocketty. And relieved that the Twins bailed on the Revere trade.
Kind of surprised you’re against this trade. With Choo in the lineup, there’s a better chance your big prediction that the Reds offense will finish in the top five in the NL in runs will actually come true, unlike last season. (They finished ninth and were as close to fifth as they were fifteenth in a sixteen team league).
How is it wrong about Jocketty? A sample size of exactly one is kind of small. Maybe I’m forgetting, but has Jocketty made one trade since he got here to get a hitter with a good OBP?
I’m not a hater of Jocketty, he’s made many good moves along with some bad, but I don’t understand how this proves anything.
On the other hand, there seem to be people here that say the Reds always opt for pitching and defense. Ludwick’s signing is counterexample #1, and desiring Choo instead of Stubbs is counterexample #2. In fact, it seems they are trading Gregarious for the right to replace Stubbs with Choo. That’s not to say that the team doesn’t value pitching and defense, because they surely do, but it seems they think hitting and scoring runs is important, too.
Jason Donald nothing to get excited about. 28 year old utility infielder who’s hitting completely dropped off the ledge last year. He hit .202/.246/.282 – that’s Wilson Valdez bad. Before last year, he was very respectable. Gotta hope last year was an anomaly.
Not much to get excited about, but his careers numbers look like he’s a decade younger and half as expensive version of Miguel Cairo… except he plays 2B, 3B, SS instead of Cairo’s 1B, 3B, 2B. Terrible 2012 (still not as terrible as Cairo’s 2012), but if he can play at his career average, not a terrible backup utility player.
So he’ll back up Frazier/Cozart/Phillips, and Frazier will back up Votto?
The Reds are still pursuing Jack Hannahan, last I heard. I assume he would become the backup at 1b and 3b while Jason Donald would back up at 2b and SS. Also Rolen’s role is still uncertain.
If the DBacks give up Bauer for Gregorious, I’d almost prefer the Reds just make that deal themselves…almost. I think.
A lot of tweets are still saying that Trevor Bauer is the player the Diamondbacks are shipping out. So, in their eyes, a player viewed as the Reds 5th to 7th best prospect is equal to a guy viewed as a top 10 prospect in all of baseball (http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/index.jsp?c_id=ari). Things like this remind me that crunching numbers is helpful, but scouting still dictates outcomes.
What makes the difference here is that Bauer is in the dog house at ARI and Gregorious is “loved” by their GM.
Their GM is obviously taking this to a personal level seeing the Gregorious isn’t regarded as a top 100 prospect.
Surely, Arizona has to be getting something more out of this trade. I’m hoping it’s not another player from the Reds.
Trevor Bauer, it doesn’t matter where he’s listed in the rankings. The Reds want to win in 2013 and they have enough pitching prospects; they need a leadoff hitter. They got one in Choo. The only way I’d want Bauer is if he could be traded again for another leadoff hitter with a ~.380 OBP.
Donald seems like a logical option. He can play anywhere in the IF albeit with below average defense. He is under team control for 5 years. The irony is that he is also represented by Scott Boras. That would leave complete flexibility for the other utility player.
@redsfanman: Oh I agree, I’m still pleased with the trade from the Reds point of view. I’m just saying that I’m surprised by what Arizona is doing.
There has to be a bit more to this trade – on the Cleveland-Arizona axis. Otherwise, the Reds would just trade Stubbs to Cleveland for Choo and Gregorius to Arizona for Bauer. Bauer >>> Donald
Exactly.
obviously the indians wouldn’t trade choo for stubbs if they’re trying to get stubbs and bauer for choo.
just saw a tweet that there could be 7 to 9 players involved overall, so it will probably be more than gregorious for bauer.
choo, donald, stubbs, gregorious, bauer is 5. so i would guess that the indians are adding a little to the deal, and AZ will send another player back to the indians.
bauer > gregorious. so they’ll try to balance that with other prospects.
Are “sources” sure that Arizona is essentially trading a pitching prospect for Gregorious? . . . . Now, I like Didi (more than I like Cozart), but that just doesn’t seem right.
7-9 players involved. We only have 5. Let the games begin.
Oh, dear god.
@hermanbates: I agree. I’m UCLA fan and saw Bauer pitch he is a major talent.
According to Paul Hoynes.
So as of now the Reds have:
OF: Bruce, Ludwick, Choo, Heisey, Paul
IF: Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Frazier, Donald
C: Hannigan, Mesoraco
SP: Cueto, Latos, Arroyo, Bailey, Chapman
BP: Broxton, Marshall, Arrendondo, Ondrusek, Simon, LeCure, Hoover
That leaves one more spot open. Leake obviously is sent to the minors. Donald could start in AAA.
I like the idea of signing Hannahan and another catcher to let Mesoraco start in AAA. After the Choo signing, I am not sure how much more cash the Reds can throw around.
Is this a world series team?
Last year’s team was a World Series team.
The Reds were very sneaky in getting Ludwick to take a discount, meanwhile planning on trading him for a CF the entire time.
Donald also plays OF. He plays 3b, 2b, SS, cf, LF.
Why the talk about Didi vs Cozart? Cozart, IMO, should have won the NL Gold Glove this year. He’ll win a couple before its over. He’s proven as a capable hitter when not stuck at lead off. Put him at 7 and he could become an All Star SS based on proven major league performance. You take that EVERY DAY over a prospect. Yeah Didi is younger, but he’s two years away and no one here can say he’ll be a lick better than Cozart when he gets here. I’ll take the proven defense at SS. To get your new lead off hitter and starting CF for the guy who just basically set two straight strikeout records and a AA prospect is a coup, especially when it leaves Cingrani and Mesoraco in the organization. This could turn out to be WJs masterpiece if the numbers work out next season.
Where is this 7-9 players coming from?
Cp
Um… What?
Paul Hoynes.
Making comment based on Twitter & conjecture (Gawd forbid facts) but I like any deal where Stubbs is traded. No more Dusty saying, after another 0 for 20 Stubbs stretch: “gotta get him goin’”!
@rfay00: I think you can add Massett in the bullpen.
Why? Masset sucks.
@rfay00: I just disagree with a few minor details. Leake could realistically move to the bullpen and Ondrusek could go to AAA, or to the rotation if there’s an injury. It depends on how spring training turns out. Jason Donald is what – 28? They need a backup shortstop, I doubt the Reds acquired him to go to Louisville. Sending Mesoraco to AAA also seems likely.
I think that’s a World Series team. At least the definite favorites in the NL Central and a team that has improved from last year.
@Steve Mancuso: Who is dropped out then? Logan? Arrendondo?
@rfay00: Really good question. I think there’s a chance Leake gets considered for the pen, too. Maybe a trade. Lots of teams look for bullpen help during spring training. Maybe we wait and make sure everyone is healthy. See Madson, Massett and Bray (circa March 2012).
@redsfanman: We have Redmond for a backup starter. Ondrusek would go 3 innings see how he likes to rack up the pitches.
@rfay00: I thought Redmond was trade bait back when I expected the Reds to trade Leake or Bailey for a leadoff hitter. Well, that’s not happening. I think Redmond is now even more likely than ever to be traded.
He was acquired for Paul Janish and hopefully they can trade up for a better utility infielder for the bench. It seems unlikely that they’d turn to him with so many better pitchers.
@Steve Mancuso: Yeah, but keep in mind that ended up leading to one of the best bullpens if not the best in the majors.
I’d like a link to the 7-9 players comment. Hoynes has nothing on twitter resembling that.
There’s no way the D-Backs are trading Bauer for Didi so more players have to be in the deal.
I think this trade means that they are pretty high on Brodie at SS. He seems to read like Cozart’s bio 3 years ago
I think it just means that they’re still high on Cozart and winning in 2013. I expects it moves Brodie Green up the depth chart like Neftali Soto did after Yonder Alonso was traded. Somebody gets promoted to the ‘_______ of the future’ title by default when a blocked guy gets traded. I doubt many Reds fans have ever heard of Brodie or that this means anything for his future.
https://twitter.com/hoynsie/status/278667164129583105
Maybe Tanner Rahier has the front office excited? He’s now the best shortstop prospect in the system. And he’s projected to move off either to third if his power develops or to second if he’s just going to be a scrappy player.
It seems to me that maybe the front office is high on Cozart. I don’t think this team is worried about 2016.
DONE DEAL PER HEYMAN
@JonHeymanCBS: choo goes to #reds. done deal.
“A lot more” according to Heyman…uh oh
new thread on the trade
@sezwhom1: I hope this gives a new meaning to ‘The Reds just got Stubbs going …’