Reds - General

Jocketty: “It’s disappointing.”

Baseball’s winter meetings have come to an end and the Reds didn’t accomplish a single thing. John Fay asked Walt Jocketty for a word or two and this is part of what the Reds’s GM said:

“You come in with great anticipation and optimism on certain things,” Jocketty said. “Then they don’t work out. It’s disappointing. But I’m certainly not through try to improve the club.”

Fay added this:

The Reds don’t even have anything that is close on the trade front. “We’ve had some talks with clubs,” Jocketty said. “We’ll stay in touch. I don’t think anything is imminent.” No progress was made last night. “Very slow evening,” he said. The Reds offer to Ludwick remains on the table.

Well. Sigh.

Sure, it’s a buzz-kill to watch all the high-powered wheeling an dealing being reported and our team not be part of it. The only significant mention of the Reds the past few days has been in connection with trying to re-sign a player from last year. Adding to the disappointment was Dusty Baker’s press conference where he talked about the important qualities of a lead-off man at length and never mentioned getting on base. He’s also obviously still gunning to undo the groundwork laid by the GM to move Aroldis Chapman to the starting rotation.

But the Reds’ off-season moves should not be judged what what did or didn’t occur the in the winter meetings. Plenty of time remains for trades, free agent acquisitions and Dusty-proofing.

It’s not fair to judge the off-season on December 6. Last season’s significant acquisitions: Mat Latos (Dec. 17), Sean Marshall (Dec. 21), Ryan Madson (Jan.11) and Ryan Ludwick (Jan. 15) all took place after the winter meetings.

The proverb says patience is a virtue. Although there’s also one about a rolling stone and moss, too. That’s the frustrating thing about proverbs. And waiting.

But keep the faith that the Reds learned the painful lesson of 2011 – that an organization can’t be complacent following a successful season.

 

146 thoughts on “Jocketty: “It’s disappointing.”

  1. Anyone here going to Redsfest? Anyone ever been? I’m thinking of going for the first time on Saturday. I’ll wear a Bronson Arroyo shirt and a black Reds hat. That’ll stand out, right?

    • Anyone here going to Redsfest? Anyone ever been? I’m thinking of going for the first time on Saturday. I’ll wear a Bronson Arroyo shirt and a black Reds hat. That’ll stand out, right?

      I went to Redsfest last year on Friday night. It was fun. It was also packed. And it was pretty warm inside. Once you get inside there is the stage area. That is one place to go. They had player and coaches introductions there. WJ got up for a nice talk. They had a Q&A session. Go by the media booths in the middle. Some players will be at these places. Alot of Reds game used and signed memorbilia. Alot of memorbilia stores selling their wares there like things to get autographed. At the player autograph sections they only let 225 people get in line. Have to be quick. And the only announce them about 30 minutes in advance, which player will be at which station. And the stations are spread around some. I took 6 baseballs in last year and autographs from Votto, Chapman, Phillips, Rolen, Bailey and one from George Foster. If you get a chance to stop by Foster’s charity booth do so and talk to him. Very nice man.

  2. @steveschoen: FWIW, his career OPS+ sits at 99, where 100 represents average. Last year he was at 88, the year before, 112. Last year he hit .265 with a pedestrian .315 OBP. In 2011, he was at 1.6 WAR (duly noted with limited playing time). But in very similar playing time in 2012 (actually, about 70 more PA’s), he posted a -.3 WAR.

    I think he’s a decent player, and like has been said, platoonable. But as a starter, he’s somebody the Reds settle for, not advocate for.

    You’re right that in comparison to Stubbs, offensively speaking, Heisey looks better. But that’s a very relative situation.

    • @steveschoen: FWIW, his career OPS+ sits at 99, where 100 represents average. Last year he was at 88, the year before, 112. Last year he hit .265 with a pedestrian .315 OBP. In 2011, he was at 1.6 WAR (duly noted with limited playing time). But in very similar playing time in 2012 (actually, about 70 more PA’s), he posted a -.3 WAR.

      I think he’s a decent player, and like has been said, platoonable. But as a starter, he’s somebody the Reds settle for, not advocate for.

      You’re right that in comparison to Stubbs, offensively speaking, Heisey looks better. But that’s a very relative situation.

      Oh, I never said Heisey was the best out there. Not at all, definitely better out there. But, no team, and definitely the Reds won’t ever be, consists of all All-Stars. There are always some players on teams who start who teams are satisfied with/settle for/etc. (even role players that start). That’s why I said I could see Heisey starting. If we get Bourn, sure, I would start Bourn. Ellsbury, sure, I would start Ellsbury. But, until something like those happen, with who we have, I have to put Heisey out there before Stubbs right now.

  3. What’s disappointing is that, essentially, Dusty had the perfect (not really, but based on what the Reds had available to them, it was a pretty decent option) platoon combo on his roster last year, in Stubbs and Heisey. The only problem is that he values speed over most everything else, and the platoon splits (Heisey against RHP’s/Stubbs against LHP’s) would have left his fastest player, and better outfield defender, on the bench more days than not. I think the short term answer, should the Reds not get anyone else of substance in CF, would be to hit Stubbs against LHP’s and select RHP’s, and allow Heisey to start against most RHP’s.

    Stubbs is a better defender, but to say Heisey is poor in the field is not accurate. This would alleviate some of the long hitting funks that Stubbs tends to find himself in, but yet allow him a chance for regular playing time. It also allows Heisey a chance to redeem himself and his low power output from last season. It’s a cheap option, and one that can work for this coming season without breaking the bank. Maybe one or the other finds his stroke and earns more time over the other. Either way, it is a one-year placeholder until Billy Hamilton should definitely be ready to go in 2014.

    Either way, though, it does not solve the leadoff option, as neither Stubbs or Heisey are the answer there, obviously.

  4. @steveschoen: If we’re thinking of Heisey in CF:

    NL CF’s, 2012: .264/.332./.408/.741
    Heisey 2012: .265/.315/.401/.715 Career: .259/.315/.438/.753

    Hard to say what he adds or doesn’t from a defensive standpoint, also important in CF. Certainly less than Stubbs. And don’t get me wrong, get Stubbs out of there. I just hope they can do better. Or get Choo for LF and let Stubbs stick around a year batting 8th.

    • @steveschoen: If we’re thinking of Heisey in CF:

      NL CF’s, 2012: .264/.332./.408/.741
      Heisey 2012: .265/.315/.401/.715 Career: .259/.315/.438/.753

      Hard to say what he adds or doesn’t from a defensive standpoint, also important in CF. Certainly less than Stubbs. And don’t get me wrong, get Stubbs out of there. I just hope they can do better. Or get Choo for LF and let Stubbs stick around a year batting 8th.

      I could take even take Stubbs starting in CF. But, he shouldn’t see anything above the 7 hole in the lineup. If the CF position is batting higher than the 7 hole, Heisey should be playing.

  5. good stuff on Stubbs redsfanman.

    I think that Drew last year looked at too many 3rd strikes. I think if he just trashes the idea of walking and becomes ole kung fu panda with the Giants, he will be a better hitter.

    go down swinging but don’t go down without a hack. I know that we want to see him walk and steal, but I would rather not see him take the backwards K.

    What do you think about a flier for Nate McLouth?

    • good stuff on Stubbs redsfanman.

      I think that Drew last year looked at too many 3rd strikes.I think if he just trashes the idea of walking and becomes ole kung fu panda with the Giants, he will be a better hitter.

      go down swinging but don’t go down without a hack.I know that we want to see him walk and steal, but I would rather not see him take the backwards K.

      What do you think about a flier for Nate McLouth?

      Thanks. Backwards K or regular K all goes into the same total. Swinging at a bad pitch because you want to ‘go down swinging’ is crazy (I think that’s an example of the advice that he’s being fed). The priority is to reach base and sometimes a walk is an option. If you can’t hit it, don’t swing. I think Adam Dunn could be an example – he piles up walks by not swinging at bad pitches… unfortunately he can’t hit good pitchers for a much higher average than Stubbs. A hitting coach won’t eliminate Dunn or Stubbs’ strikeouts – it’s part of their approach – but in both cases walks can be (or are for Dunn) a strength.

      @WVRedlegs: Cespedes could be a pal for Chapman because they’re both from Cuba? That’s a pretty vague stereotype. I don’t know about you but I don’t even like all the Cincinnati Reds fans in Ohio despite common interests. As far as trades for Cespedes or Stanton being ‘pulled out of thin air’, yeah, that’s an unrealistic longshot.

      Gordon, I think it’s realistic and possible IF Ludwick leaves and the Royals’ free agent pitching options dry up. The Royals have already missed a lot of potential trade partners for outfielders. Both the Reds and Royals clearly have what the other team wants. For both sides the cost (Gordon vs pitching) would be painful to give up, but it’s reasonable if the teams hope to get better.

      • Cespedes could be a pal for Chapman because they’re both from Cuba? That’s a pretty vague stereotype. I don’t know about you but I don’t even like all the Cincinnati Reds fans in Ohio despite common interests. As far as trades for Cespedes or Stanton being ‘pulled out of thin air’, yeah, that’s an unrealistic longshot.

        Wow, you are pretty narrow-minded. Vague stereotype?? I cannot believe you took a shot at me for that. Not only are they both from Cuba, they have some things in common. They share the same heritage, they are both defectors, they both left family behind to pursue their baseball dreams, they both sought out freedom, they love Cuban food as it is much different than Mexican and Carribean food. They have similarities and share some common interests, and that could be important to have someone like that around when you are in a foriegn land. Idiot.

        • Wow, you are pretty narrow-minded.Vague stereotype?? I cannot believe you took a shot at me for that. Not only are they both from Cuba, they have some things in common.They share the same heritage, they are both defectors, they both left family behind to pursue their baseball dreams, they both sought out freedom, they love Cuban food as it is much different than Mexican and Carribean food.They have similarities and share some common interests, and that could be important to have someone like that around when you are in a foriegn land.Idiot.

          All Cuban guys are the same, got it. They look the same, act the same, think the same. I’m a white mid-20′s guy living in Cincinnati who likes Skyline Chili and the Reds so I guess I’d be buds with everyone in that same group. Lets schedule a party at Skyline.

        • ague stereotype?? I cannot believe you took a shot at me for that. Not only are they both from Cuba, they have some things in common. They share the same heritage, they are both defectors, they both left family behind to pursue their baseball dreams, they both so

          Agreed, WV. “Pulling things out of thin air” is someone else’s problem.

  6. Top 3 places WJ might pull one out of thin air.
    (1) KC and Alex Gordon, we’ve been clamouring for it but hardly anyone thinks its possible.
    (2) Toronto by acquiring either Emilio Bonifacio or Rajai Davis, both 40+ base stealers.
    (3) Oakland and Yoennis Cespedes for a haul of prospects. Cespedes would be a huge addition to LF, and has a Chapman-like contract, not the MLB minimum. Could also be a pal for Chapman to hang with and keep him out of trouble. Or he could be paired with Chapman to entice Miami for Stanton. In all 3 scenarios Mike Leake would be the centerpiece of the package the Reds would give up.

  7. @WVRedlegs: I’d hope they pass on Bonifacio. If the main concern is OBP, only his 2011 is noteworthy. .360 That’s great. Beyond that, every other season he’s posted anything from .300-.330. And very little power.. his career OPS is .645. Gag.

    Fast and versatile (he can spell Phillips at 2b) for sure. But I think he’s a better fantasy player than a somebody to give much up for.

    • @WVRedlegs: I’d hope they pass on Bonifacio. If the main concern is OBP, only his 2011 is noteworthy. .360 That’s great. Beyond that, every other season he’s posted anything from .300-.330. And very little power.. his career OPS is .645. Gag. Fast and versatile (he can spell Phillips at 2b) for sure. But I think he’s a better fantasy player than a somebody to give much up for.

      I am not concerned with power from the leadoff hitter. I am concerned with him getting on base to let Votto, ??, and Bruce knock them in. OBP and runs scored are the only 2 stats I look for from a leadoff hitter and second hitter. When you get down to the brass tacks, the only stat that really counts are runs scored. Runs beat the opposing team, not OPS.
      Bonifacio was hurt most of 2012 and still had 30 SB’s. The last two years he has hit RH pitchers better. He’s a switch hitter. He’s an upgrade over two .277 OBP guys. Given 500 AB’s I would guess he would steal 50 bases. Even batting 7th or 8th Stubbs would steal 40 bases. I wouldn’t diss Bonifacio. He’s been a thorn in the Reds side before at GABP.

      • I am not concerned with power from the leadoff hitter.I am concerned with him getting on base to let Votto, ??, and Bruce knock them in.OBP and runs scored are the only 2 stats I look for from a leadoff hitter and second hitter.When you get down to the brass tacks, the only stat that really counts are runs scored.Runs beat the opposing team, not OPS.

        I agree, the main priority for a leadoff hitter is to get on base. I don’t care if that’s through singles, walks, hit by pitches, bunts, whatever – just get on base. Second most important is speed and the ability to be a distraction when on base. Slugging percentage is pretty irrelevant in that role.

        On the other hand evaluating a leadoff hitter by runs scored is pretty unfair, that’s completely dependent on other factors (like win-loss totals for a pitcher), most importantly who comes after you. Especially if a guy hits in front of a big double play guy. Joey Votto being the team’s regular leader in runs scored says something.

  8. @WVRedlegs: He’s a fine player. It could be ok. I guess I just think the Reds have a lot of what Bonifacio brings simmering in Billy Hamilton. Looks like he’s second year Arb going into 13, so maybe the Reds could flip him again if Hamilton stays on track. Maybe I just hate that Stubbs set the bar so low offensively that having to pay much for “better than Stubbs” is unappealing.

    • Mlbtr reporting the Rays are trying to trade for Mesoraco in a 3 team deal.

      Seems like a long shot that the Reds aren’t even involved in yet.

  9. @redsfanman: Now I’m wondering if the Reds players from Dominican Republic (Arredondo, Cueto, Simon, Valdez) had their own area in the clubhouse. You know, away from the Venezuelan guys who also grew up speaking Spanish. Somehow I doubt they form friendships based on which country they came from.

  10. @rhayex: I would mind it. Good catching and game calling is key to the success of the Reds’ pitching staff, both short and long term. Hanigan can’t play every day and the Rays are only searching for a catcher due to a lack of good free agents. Tucker Barnhart seems to be years from contributing and I doubt the Reds want to go into the season with Corky Miller on the roster.

  11. Due to the fact that we lost Navarro to the Cubs and I do not see any catcher in the minors of any significance, I would not trade Mesoraco for Fowler. No way. We all know Mesoraco had a poor year last year, but he will improve based on his minor league numbers and we all know Hanigan will not be around forever. Mesoraco is the future catcher for the Reds, period.

  12. I wondered when I heard about some of the potential 3 team trade rumors from earlier in the week if the Reds would involve themselves in one. Spinning both Leake and Mes + prospects into one of those could bring back some interesting booty. Although it seems like one of those things coming back would need to be a catcher… well, guess we’ll see just how deep in the doghouse Mes put himself.

    I still like Heisey a lot, and would like to see what he could do in a full season without having to look over his shoulder every at bat. But that’s a move for a rebuilding team, not a team that considers itself WS caliber.

    On the other hand, he *has* gotten a pretty fair number of ABs, more than a lot of guys will ever get, and never really sunk his teeth into them (assuming he has teeth). I really think he has been very ill-served by the agressive plate approach pushed by his manager. Stubbs, too. And I fear for the effect it’ll have on Frazier.

    Anyway, Heisey’s a pretty valuable bench player, potentially a somewhat valuable trade chip. It’ll be interesting to see what develops with him.

  13. Reds are supposedly talking with White Sox about De Aza. I’d like to take this opportunity to gloat. Called this one weeks ago.

    Aaaaaannnnddd…

    Go.

    • Reds are supposedly talking with White Sox about De Aza.I’d like to take this opportunity to gloat. Called this one weeks ago.

      Aaaaaannnnddd…

      Go.

      Well, actually the only article I can read on the topic says the White Sox are trying to trade him to the Mariners so the Mariners can trade him to the Reds. I bet you didn’t predict the added twist. They probably threw it in to keep you surprised and off balance. I wonder who the Mariners would want from the Reds, it seems like they’ve mostly been targeting hitters.

  14. Here’s an interest article about trading De Aza – http://www.redeyechicago.com/sports/ct-spt-1207-white-sox-chicago–20121207,0,2607536.story

    Highlights include:
    “If De Aza, 28, were to go, the Sox would need a replacement, as they have struggled to stabilize that spot in their batting order for an extended period since Ray Durham was traded in 2001….
    De Aza, eligible for arbitration his first time, probably will earn in excess of $1.5 million. But his value to the Sox is immensely greater because of his leadoff capability and because he and Adam Dunn are the only left-handed-hitting starting position players under team control.”

    The White Sox are apparently looking for prospects, but the articles don’t seem to specify any preference for hitting or pitching. Neat, something else to watch.

    Sorry Rhayex, I guess it does confirm what you said about the Reds and White Sox supposedly talking, not necessarily involving the Mariners.

    • Mesoraco to Tampa Bay. Shields to Arizona. DBacks send an OF to the Reds.

      John Fay on Twitter just posted “one insider shot down notion that Reds would trade Mesoraco”. I guess insiders beat vague speculation.

  15. I threw sarcasm into my comment, and sure enough, someone bit. De Aza was one of those guys you don’t hear much of until he’s traded. Very few people could’ve predicted the Reds were interested in him. I am not among that number. The closest I ever came to “predicting” him was saying he was a good lead off hitter (at least, to my knowledge).

    I understand that I came off as a dick. I apologize.

    • I threw sarcasm into my comment, and sure enough, someone bit. De Aza was one of those guys you don’t hear much of until he’s traded. Very few people could’ve predicted the Reds were interested in him. I am not among that number. The closest I ever came to “predicting” him was saying he was a good lead off hitter (at least, to my knowledge).

      I understand that I came off as a dick. I apologize.

      I never heard of De Aza until making a list of the best leadoff hitters by OBP a few days ago. Where the heck did he come from? I also didn’t hear him as a trade candidate until today.

      I thought it was funny that somebody was proud of a trade prediction that was pretty accurate until some completely unpredictable team (the Mariners) began being mentioned in the rumor. I think the Mariners are out to get you.

  16. No thanks, I will stick with Mesoraco, Skyline Chili and Cuban food.

    We traded from out catching surplus last year.

  17. De Aza in a three team trade for left handed bats – maybe Soto, DiDi, Hrod???

    That’s ideal because they aren’t asking for pitching.

    Reds have signed Ludwick. CHECK.

    Reds trade Meso…ehhhh, have to give him more than one year or we are screwed in the catcher position. Unless Tucker Barnhart gets up to AAA quickly.

  18. The article I posted implied that the White Sox will be reluctant to give up their leadoff hitter after, like the Reds, searching for years to find one. Also the White Sox, like the Reds, only have two lefties in the lineup and will be reluctant to move one.

    In my opinion Didi, Neftali Soto, and Henry Rodriguez are a bunch of scraps. Would that deal make sense to the White Sox? Nope. I expect Stubbs would be involved in such a trade, but who knows? I believe the Reds will have to give up some pitcher – Corcino maybe – to get a deal done for De Aza.

    • The article I posted implied that the White Sox will be reluctant to give up their leadoff hitter after, like the Reds, searching for years to find one.Also the White Sox, like the Reds, only have two lefties in the lineup and will be reluctant to move one.

      In my opinion Didi, Neftali Soto, and Henry Rodriguez are a bunch of scraps.Would that deal make sense to the White Sox?Nope.I expect Stubbs would be involved in such a trade, but who knows?I believe the Reds will have to give up some pitcher – Corcino maybe – to get a deal done for De Aza.

      If it’s a three team trade, the Reds would be sending to the Mariners who could use a 1B or left handed hitting player. Two of those guys would work. Mariners have plenty of pitching depth. If it’s a trade with the White Sox though, they would want pitching.

      • If it’s a three team trade, the Reds would be sending to the Mariners who could use a 1B or left handed hitting player. Two of those guys would work. Mariners have plenty of pitching depth. If it’s a trade with the White Sox though, they would want pitching.

        Sure, the Mariners could use a 1b who’s an improvement over Justin Smoak and his .219 batting average. Circling back to my old argument about Drew Stubbs, a replacement isn’t necessarily an improvement. Is Neftali Soto an improvement over Smoak? I doubt it… but hopefully they’ll go for it anyway. I was thrilled to have Juan Francisco traded for something useful and I hope Soto can still be shipped out of town while he still has value.

  19. I would trade Mesoraco for Cobb straight up. Gives the Reds ANOTHER great pitching prospect and a 6th starter. Trade Redmond for a backup middle infielder.

    Still no leadoff guy though…but I think what I said above would only help the Reds.

    • @redsfanman: Right. It’s not like the Reds will ever use him. Unless he stops aging and freezes himself until Votto retires.

      Eh, I think they could have stood to freeze Yonder Alonso until Votto retires. I doubt Neftali Soto will be an improvement over Justin Smoak. Soto is in AAA because he hasn’t hit well enough to earn a promotion and I doubt that will change.

  20. How often have “rumored” deals involving the Reds ever panned out? I mean the deals last year, were they ever rumored? I mean really, I know it’s hot stove and all, but I just don’t see all the hubub about “rumors”…

    • @redsfanman: So he is going to turn into another Mike Constanzo?

      In my personal opinion Costanzo is basically a career minor leaguer who got a rare shot on a major league roster. I think Neftali Soto’s future is more like Russel Branyan’s, floating around and failing to catch on anywhere due to an inability to hit… let alone do anything else. I definitely don’t expect Neftali Soto to hold down a regular 1b job at the MLB level. Then again, who knows for sure? Not me.

  21. @dn4192: I thought the Dexter Fowler “rumor” was one made in heaven. Just so happens, the Rocks are looking for a mid-rotation pitcher (just like Leake) and the Reds are looking for a CF-leadoff guy (just like Fowler.)

    Just also so happens that WJ was quoted as saying he hadn’t even talked to Colorado.

    The old “person familiar with their thinking” … told (the other guy in our office) “he has what they need” quote usually seals the deal for me for some scribes.

  22. Now that’s more like it. :mrgreen: Ludwick has come home and WJ is working the phones like only WJ can. With Ludwick signed, pending his physical, then WJ is working from a position of strength. He doesn’t HAVE to make a trade in order for the Reds to compete with the best of the best and the other teams want what WJ has readily available.

    Meso can be available, but the Reds would have to extend Hanigan in order to make Meso available. Miguel Olivo is available as a FA and he is a veteran who does a pretty good job behind the plate and could spell/backup Hanigan. Olivo is a veteran catcher who is perfectly suited to hitting in the #8 hole. Dusty would probably love having Olivo so much he might pop.

    Now let’s get an extention done for Bailey & Latos.

  23. I could see the Reds trading Devin. I believe this was one of the more “minor” needs they needed to do, commit to who was going to be catcher, Hanigan or Devin. I like them both. But, you can’t keep playing your “future” so little. The Reds did Devin nothing but a disservice playing him so little last season. But, I can understand playing Hanigan 3 of 5 games. So, the Reds needed to determine who they were going with, commit to. If I had to let one go, I can’t help thinking I would rather see Devin here and trade Hanigan off. But, I could understand switching that. For, something needed to be done. Not too difficult finding someone else to backup Hanigan. I would rather see Hanigan gladly take the “2nd string” position and allow Devin his shot.

  24. So, the Reds have agreed to terms on a 2 year deal with a mutual option for a third year, pending a physical. It seems like corner outfielders like Shin-Shoo Choo, Alex Gordon, and Josh Willingham are out as trade candidates. Kevin Youkilis, Cody Ross, and Ichiro won’t be signing here.

    What’s next?

    Jack Hannahan? Reds are still trying to add him as a lefty bat and corner infielder as other teams drop out of the running.

    Skip Schumaker? I guess he’s mostly a platoon lefty and outfielder who has received terrible reviews defensively in the infield. As a veteran Cardinal he seems like a logical fit for Walt Jocketty.

    Alejandro De Aza, a little known White Sox lefthanded centerfielder who led Michael Bourn in OBP, seems like a likely target for Jocketty.

    Dexter Fowler?

    David DeJesus?

    Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Michael Bourn, once he runs out of teams willing to pay him a huge contract and agrees to settle for a 1 year deal like Ryan Madson?

    • @redsfanman: Two guys who are rarely mentioned but are not really bad corner OF choices: Logan Morrison and Tyler Colvin.

      I meant to begin that last post with “so, the Reds have agreed to terms with Ryan Ludwick”.

      I really doubt the Reds will make any big acquisitions of corner outfielders with Ludwick, Bruce, Frazier, Heisey, and Xavier Paul on the team. Colvin is coming off a reasonably impressive season and I doubt the Marlins want to move Morrison.

      The Reds had a lot of trouble last year finding a single lefthanded bat off the bench before Xavier Paul appeared. Now they are (relatively) publicly pursuing the lefty Hannahan and most of the leadoff hitting centerfielders are lefthanded. Maybe this is a move towards a more balanced roster. If so, yay.

  25. If the Ludwick deal is done, which it pretty much is, the Reds will not be holding out on Bourn. Jocketty will make a deal for De Aza, Fowler, or whoever in the next few days or upcoming weeks.

    He is not going to wait for Bourn to be the next Ryan Madson and sign a cheap deal. First off, the Reds probably maxed out on salary after the first two deals and need to improve the bench.

    So lets say they sign Hannahan.

    Here is what they have:

    Infield – Votto, Phillips, Cozart, Frazier, Hannigan, Hannahan, Mesoraco, backup middle IF

    Outfield – Ludwick, Bruce, Stubbs, Heisey, Paul

    Pitching staff is known and not needing a list.

    Is that not a world series team? If not, who goes to make room for a De Aza or Fowler? Do you dump what’s left of the high end prospects to make a winning team through 2015-2016?

    That’s a tough decision. I am happy I am not making it.

  26. @rfay00: I’ll second that comment and join you in being happy I am not the person making the decisions who the Reds might move.

    That said, I think it is plausible that some combination Meso, Stubbs, Heisey, or Paul could be gone off of this roster plus a guy or two from the pitching staff.

    The earlier rumors about Meso and Tampa Bay could have some credence. The report on MLBTR seemed to indicate that the Rays had a lot of internal options for catchers but wanted someone more. I’d propose that one or more of those internal options at TB might fit well with Hanigan on the Reds. However it is hard to see such a trade just to move Meso unless he is still deep in the organizational doghouse. I think it makes more sense to sign or trade lower level prospects for an MLB backup so they can send Meso back to AAA to rediscover his mojo.

    There have been enough comments about Stubbs that I don’t think there is any need to say any more about why he might get moved. Heisey and Paul as the fourth and fifth outfielders are simply in positions where they could become the “collateral damage” inclusions in a trade. However, I think they make a nice RH and LH tandem off the bench and hope they are both still around. I’d much rather see Stubbs moved in a deal that brings in another CF/ lead off man than see either Heisey or Paul be moved or dumped because of such a deal.

    • The earlier rumors about Meso and Tampa Bay could have some credence. The report on MLBTR seemed to indicate that the Rays had a lot of internal options for catchers but wanted someone more. I’d propose that one or more of those internal options at TB might fit well with Hanigan on the Reds. However it is hard to see such a trade just to move Meso unless he is still deep in the organizational doghouse. I think it makes more sense to sign or trade lower level prospects for an MLB backup so they can send Meso back to AAA to rediscover his mojo.

      The rumor suggested the the Rays want Mesoraco, not that the Reds are willing to give him up. John Fay said somebody in the front office confirmed that they weren’t willing to trade Mesoraco. Joey Votto also shot down the rumor. Joey Votto doesn’t have any say in the matter but comeon, he rarely takes a position on ANYTHING as far as player moves. If the quiet star player is willing to make a stand against trading Mesoraco I really doubt the front office would go behind his back.

      The Reds really value pitching and defense and trading away somebody as important to their pitching staff’s future as Devin Mesoraco doesn’t make much sense. Maybe fans would support trading him but I think it goes against what the Reds and their players stand for.

  27. $15MM for 2 years plus a mutual option is a good deal for all parties. From a team perspective, a I don’t like mutual options, but Ludwick made a financial commitment to play in Cincinnati so a mutal commitment is appropriate. I just hope there is not a large buyout clause attached to the option.

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