2012 Reds / 2013 Reds / RN Radio

Redleg Nation Radio #72: This stove is hot! (Well, it’s warm, anyway.)

RNR returns with discussion of some Hot Stove rumors as the Winter Meetings begin. Topics include the outfield situation, what the Reds will do to fill the leadoff hole, and how Aroldis Chapman will be handled this year. It’s the latest episode of Redleg Nation Radio!

You can listen with the player at the bottom of this post or right-click here to download the mp3 file to listen at your leisure. For links to all previous episodes of Redleg Nation Radio, check out the podcast’s home page.

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Many thanks to Friend of the Nation — and huge Reds fan — Freekbass for the bumper music. The music is from this album; he’s a talented guy, and highly recommended.

117 thoughts on “Redleg Nation Radio #72: This stove is hot! (Well, it’s warm, anyway.)

  1. Well, I listened and I enjoyed the podcast. It’s weird to put a voice with somebody who I’ve only read in print. Like when John Fay is on the radio – weird.

    Some random notes:
    -Arroyo, I think he’s as deserving of a rotation spot as anybody. He’s been the Reds’ best starting pitcher over the past decade and is coming off a strong year, giving him a rotation spot isn’t some silly biased decision by the manager – I’m not sure what more he could have done.

    -Bailey vs Leake, I think one of them has to be trade bait and it makes sense to sell when a guy’s value is high. Mike Leake’s trade value is down and Homer Bailey’s trade value is probably as high as it’ll ever be again, so I think he seems like the logical choice to trade. If Bailey can be traded for a valuable player who can fill an important role (particularly leadoff) long term I’m fine with it.

    -Billy Hamilton, I’m not excited about trading him but I agree that his value will never be higher, if they could trade him in a smart deal for more of a sure-thing inexpensive young leadoff hitter, fine. Maybe Adam Eaton and others from the DBacks.

    -Sean Marshall, I agree that he deserves a chance for saves, he’s at least as good (if not better) than Broxton. I doubt Broxton will have the same hold over the closer role as Francisco Cordero or Danny Graves, though.

    -Victorino to LF, I thought I was the only person who thought that moving somebody to LF and keeping Stubbs in CF was an option. I think the Reds should hold onto Stubbs for another year – he has so much talent that his trade value can only go up from here. Most fans want guys traded away when they’re worthless but that’s rarely a good investment. Put him in the bottom of the order where he can avoid the leadoff spotlight and I think he’ll do well.

  2. Sounded good to me, Chad. My two cents …

    For the right deal, yeah, I’d trade Billy Hamilton, too. Seems to me that he could really be the key to bringing in a nice piece to a team already on the verge of World Series participation. I guess I’m not especially advocating it, just saying I don’t think it’s an unreasonable suggestion.

    Also, to tie in with something I heard on MLB radio a few days ago, Casey Stern (sp?) went on a tirade about moving Chapman to the rotation. He was excoriating the Reds for “fixing a part that wasn’t broken” by making Chapman a starter. He said if Chapman had injury concerns just trying to throw 15 or 20 pitches per one-inning outing consistently, how would he do with longer outings consistently? He also said that Broxton was the wrong guy to turn to in making this move. He pointed to Broxton’s postseason failures with the Dodgers.

    I’m not the biggest Broxton fan, absolutely hated the move at the trade deadline, thought the Reds gave up too much, even though it was two prospects, no major league proven talent, but I was obviously very glad it turned out as well as it did. It still seems to me that the Reds are hoping for the old Broxton, and I’m not sure that guy exists anymore. As Chad said on the broadcast, maybe the Reds have a good reason to believe in Broxton that might not be so evident to everyone else. … And no matter who else Dusty has in the pen, he will stick with Broxton, because he believes in having ONE GUY, never a closer by committee, like CoCo going three or even four days in a row. (Not that I’m bitter or anything …)

    More than anything else, I guess I was just astounded at the degree of Stern’s opposition. Aren’t he and his partner Jim Bowden notoriously big Cardinals fans? The context of Stern’s outburst, in fact, came from a question about how much the Cardinals needed to do to improve. And he said the Cardinals had “improved” just because the Reds took a step back with Chapman. … But I’m eager to see what Chapman can do in the rotation.

  3. @vegastypo: I heard Bowden’s and Sterns’s outrage as well when they were on a couple days ago. Part of me wonders if they are genuinely unaware that Chapman was a starter in Cuba and that he prepared as a starter in spring training last year. We tend to dismiss spring results which is generally a good idea, but his stuff was good. To me… the move of Chapman to the rotation has more to do with managing people than it does managing baseball. My guess is when he went to the bullpen last year after preparing to start, he was promised at some point that he would get the chance to be a starter. How good would Reds management be if they didn’t live up to their promises? I think you would have a bunch of ticked off players like the Marlins do. At the end of the day, if you have management that stands by their word, pays their players well, and actually take the time to develop its workers skills…you get a successful organization… because everyone in the organization sees what you are doing. Is it a bad baseball move to send Chapman to the rotation? I don’t know…maybe…but there is no way anyone can convince me this is bad for the organization. Stern and Bowden made it sound like they were jerking Chapman around…I think the opposite would have been true had they NOT given him the chance, especially after his sacrifices last year.

  4. Glad to hear someone else think that trading B. Hamilton is a good idea. I have a feeling that his value is going to decrease once he hits the majors; the “chosen-one prospects” rarely come in and make a huge impact right away. Usually, they take 2-3 seasons to really hit their stride and make the impact everyone thought they would. If you trade him now, while the stock is high… you can get a nice haul of mid-career guys who don’t have as high a ceiling as Hamilton… but can boost the Reds now.

    Then again, the last time the Reds traded a prospect named Hamilton…

  5. @redsfanman: I have an idea. Why don’t we trade for Bedard? Let’s send Joey Votto, Homer Bailey and Johnny Cueto.

    I have no problems sending prospects for good players, but as John Fay pointed out earlier this week, keeping your best prospects is also important.

  6. @Zach: Trading Hamilton is a good idea? What’s more important than winning? I’m serious… there is something more important to a team than winning. The answer: making money. When Billy Hamilton makes it to the show, the stands will be packed to watch him. The national sports media will be paying attention to the Reds. People will be buying Hamilton shirts in the Reds merchandise booths. If you think his value is high now, wait until learns CF and reaches the bigs, steals 60 bases in his rookie season, has an OBP of .400, and is in the rookie of the year discussion.

    I think it is very short sited to trade him right now. “I’ll trade you this calf for a juicy hamburger” kind of thing. Maybe none of those things will ever happen. He fades, can’t get on base, becomes an adventure in CF. All of those are possible. But Hamilton doing all the good things I mentioned earlier is a safer bet.

    • @redsfanman: I have an idea.Why don’t we trade for Bedard?Let’s send Joey Votto, Homer Bailey and Johnny Cueto.

      I have no problems sending prospects for good players, but as John Fay pointed out earlier this week, keeping your best prospects is also important.

      I never said the Reds should have traded for Erik Bedard. I never suggested trading Billy Hamilton for an old veteran either. I said the Reds should consider trading Billy Hamilton for Adam Eaton – Eaton is a 24 year old rookie left handed centerfielder and leadoff hitter who is already major league ready while Billy Hamilton is a year away from getting promoted and even further that that from entering his prime. Such a trade serves to flip the schedule ahead by a year or two while not influencing contracts.

      @Zach: Trading Hamilton is a good idea?What’s more important than winning?I’m serious… there is something more important to a team than winning.The answer: making money.When Billy Hamilton makes it to the show, the stands will be packed to watch him.The national sports media will be paying attention to the Reds.People will be buying Hamilton shirts in the Reds merchandise booths.If you think his value is high now, wait until learns CF and reaches the bigs, steals 60 bases in his rookie season, has an OBP of .400, and is in the rookie of the year discussion.

      I think it is very short sited to trade him right now.“I’ll trade you this calf for a juicy hamburger” kind of thing. Maybe none of those things will ever happen.He fades, can’t get on base, becomes an adventure in CF.All of those are possible.But Hamilton doing all the good things I mentioned earlier is a safer bet.

      The stands will be packed to watch Billy Hamilton and national sports media will be paying attention to the Reds? Uh, no. Fans pay to see homeruns and Griffey never ended up attracting the limelight that you expect for Billy Hamilton. Nor did Josh Hamilton. Or Adam Dunn. Or Joey Votto. Or Jay Bruce. Nobody cares when Stubbs steals a base, will Hamilton stealing bases really win everyone over?

      If Billy Hamilton has a great rookie year I think he’ll be like Todd Frazier, popular and well known in Cincinnati but never heard of elsewhere. Did Todd Frazier even get Rookie of the Year votes? I guess he did, but despite his success and popularity in Cincinnati he was ignored elsewhere. I expect the same with Hamilton.

      I don’t think Billy Hamilton is a key to winning. Having a leadoff hitter is important to winning, and Billly Hamilton may be key to adding a good leadoff hitter, but I don’t think that leadoff hitter has to be him. If Hamilton becomes the leadoff hitter in 2014, fine, but if he’s traded for Adam Eaton so that Eaton can start a long term as the Reds’ leadoff hitter in 2013, fine.

      • I never said the Reds should have traded for Erik Bedard.

        You missed my point, completely. I was making a joke based on Fay’s article earlier this week.

        • You missed my point, completely.I was making a joke based on Fay’s article earlier this week.

          Your joke was implying that trading prospects is, by default, foolish and can’t work out. Jon Fay’s article was pointing out that sometimes the best trades are ones that aren’t made, but that doesn’t mean all trades are bad ideas. If you don’t want Billy Hamilton being traded, fine, but you don’t have to throw analogies of potential worst trades ever into it.

        • @redsfanman:

          From TC:

          I believe 90% of the time, trading prospects for a proven player is a good idea

          Here is a quote from my post.

          Your joke was implying that trading prospects is, by default, foolish and can’t work out. Jon Fay’s article was pointing out that sometimes the best trades are ones that aren’t made, but that doesn’t mean all trades are bad ideas. If you don’t want Billy Hamilton being traded, fine, but you don’t have to throw analogies of potential worst trades ever into it.

          Your reply is fallacious.

    • Trading Hamilton is a good idea?What’s more important than winning?I’m serious… there is something more important to a team than winning.The answer: making money.When Billy Hamilton makes it to the show, the stands will be packed to watch him.The national sports media will be paying attention to the Reds.People will be buying Hamilton shirts in the Reds merchandise booths.If you think his value is high now, wait until learns CF and reaches the bigs, steals 60 bases in his rookie season, has an OBP of .400, and is in the rookie of the year discussion.

      I think it is very short sited to trade him right now.“I’ll trade you this calf for a juicy hamburger” kind of thing. Maybe none of those things will ever happen.He fades, can’t get on base, becomes an adventure in CF.All of those are possible.But Hamilton doing all the good things I mentioned earlier is a safer bet.

      @TC: The thing that usually happens with these “mega” prospects (the ones ESPN latches onto) is they get to the majors and spin their tires. In a few years, they are above average players… but they typically crash. Harper and Trout were the exceptions. Think Jason Heyward. When he was coming up, all I heard about for months was how he was going to be the best OF since ever. Is he above average? Certainly, but with the hype that followed him his first year, he would have demanded a bigger price than he does now (even though now is still a pretty penny). What happens if after 3 months Hamilton isn’t filling seats due to underperforming? You can also fill seats with championships, which a trade could help achieve.

      To continue your metaphor, I’d be willing to trade the calf that might develop into a huge bull (has the right genetics or something) or might become just a decent bull,if I got two or three decent sized bulls as a guaranteed return. It has to be the right deal, or I’m with you.

      • @TC: The thing that usually happens with these “mega” prospects (the ones ESPN latches onto) is they get to the majors and spin their tires. In a few years, they are above average players… but they typically crash. Harper and Trout were the exceptions. Think Jason Heyward. When he was coming up, all I heard about for months was how he was going to be the best OF since ever. Is he above average? Certainly, but with the hype that followed him his first year, he would have demanded a bigger price than he does now (even though now is still a pretty penny). What happens if after 3 months Hamilton isn’t filling seats due to underperforming? You can also fill seats with championships, which a trade could help achieve.

        To continue your metaphor, I’d be willing to trade the calf that might develop into a huge bull (has the right genetics or something) or might become just a decent bull,if I got two or three decent sized bulls as a guaranteed return. It has to be the right deal, or I’m with you.

        I think Jay Bruce was formerly one of those mega prospects. Fans ‘Bruuuuuuuuuuce’ him when he comes up to hit, but few fans (if anyone) pay to see him. Similarly Ken Griffey Jr didn’t bring out the fans. I doubt Aroldis Chapman will be nearly as successful at drawing fans for his starts as some people hope. Cincinnati is filled with fair-weather fans who will buy tickets to watch a winning team, most of those fair-weather fans don’t care who’s on that team.

        I don’t mean to imply that people who post here are fair weather fans but ticket sales weren’t up last year because the players were exciting, they were up because people from the region who couldn’t name a single Reds player (I brought some to games) bought tickets to see a contending team.

  7. I am really getting tired of the idea that the main reason to keep Chapman in the pen is “injury”. Seems to me that relievers have arm problems quite often enough, too. Why would that be, if relieving is so much easier on the ol’ arm? Show me some numbers saying starters get hurt more often than relievers, otherwise it’s just so much “common sense” bunkum.

    Has anybody ever bashed the Nats for making Strasburg a starter? After all, in the pen, they would have had him for the playoffs this year… heck, they wouldn’t have lost him for a year with TJ surgery, either. Nobody gets hurt in the bullpen.

    Yeesh.

    • I am really getting tired of the idea that the main reason to keep Chapman in the pen is “injury”.Seems to me that relievers have arm problems quite often enough, too.Why would that be, if relieving is so much easier on the ol’ arm?Show me some numbers saying starters get hurt more often than relievers, otherwise it’s just so much “common sense” bunkum.

      Has anybody ever bashed the Nats for making Strasburg a starter?After all, in the pen, they would have had him for the playoffs this year… heck, they wouldn’t have lost him for a year with TJ surgery, either.Nobody gets hurt in the bullpen.

      Yeesh.

      Perfect post.

  8. Final thought, the only way the Reds can continue to compete, year in and year out, is to have a solid farm system. It allows you to do two things, develop players who become your core (Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Bailey, Hanigan, Chapman, Frazier), and trade for key pieces (Stevens, Alonzo, Janish, Wood, Turner).

    The Reds came out like bandits on those trades. I believe 90% of the time, trading prospects for a proven player is a good idea (referenced above: Phillips, Latos, Marshall, Redmond, Hernandez). I’m just glad none of the core players were traded for middling established players. I truly feel trading Hamilton would be like trading Votto, Bruce, or Cueto.

    • After reading Bowden’s tweet this morning after his conversation with Mr. Baker:

      After my conversation with D.Baker yesterday,became convinced there is a real possibility that Chapman ends up closing in 13 if its his call.

      I experienced the same despair I felt after the loss to the Giants, same old Mr. Baker, and we can look forward to two more years of the same old Mr. Baker, gulp. :roll:

  9. @RC: Love it. Dusty setting himself up with an escape clause in case Chapman gets hurt or whatever: “No sir, not gonna blame me, I said he should be closing.” Betcha Walt enjoyed reading that tidbit.

  10. @RC: I saw that too. Insanity. This ‘experiment’ will never get off the ground unless there’s a very direct one way conversation between Walt and Dusty.

    This is insubordination, plain and simple, but in a lame junior high gossip sorta way.

    • @RC: I saw that too.Insanity.This ‘experiment’ will never get off the ground unless there’s a very direct one way conversation between Walt and Dusty.

      This is insubordination, plain and simple, but in a lame junior high gossip sorta way.

      At the moment the Reds are headed to spring training with 5 experienced starting pitchers, not including Aroldis Chapman. You do recognize that, right? Trading away Bailey or Leake will create an opening in the rotation that is not currently there.

      If Dusty wants to create competition in the spring – Chapman has to pitch well to win a spot, fine. It’s silly to guarantee that Chapman is in an Leake is out before they even report for spring training. I guess that’s what some of you want. Why the heck do they even play spring training games?

      • If Dusty wants to create competition in the spring – Chapman has to pitch well to win a spot, fine. It’s silly to guarantee that Chapman is in an Leake is out before they even report for spring training. I guess that’s what some of you want. Why the heck do they even play spring training games?

        But that’s not the implication of the statement. Bowden didn’t say: “Dusty says Chapman will earn it like anybody else and could go back to closing” Rather, it implies Dusty would rather Chapman close, plain and simple. And it’s not as though Dusty is entitled to that opinion behind closed doors, but it makes for a bad public face to have two messages from the same camp.

        Sultan is right… Dusty just undercut Walt or Price or whoever else is behind the idea of trying Chapman as a starter. It was a weak move.

  11. @TC: You know, prospects can be traded for other prospects, right? A young guy can be traded for another young guy, like with Alsonso and Grandal getting sent for Mat Latos. It doesn’t have to be a trade for an old veteran who makes a lot of money.

    • You know, prospects can be traded for other prospects, right?

      Nope, because I didn’t know a thing about baseball until you started posting here.

    • The stands will be packed to watch Billy Hamilton and national sports media will be paying attention to the Reds? Uh, no.

      You do recognize that, right?

      You know, prospects can be traded for other prospects, right?

      Just a few examples of why your replies make my blood boil. Disagreeing is one thing, but being unnecessarily condescending is another.

    • @TC: You know, prospects can be traded for other prospects, right? A young guy can be traded for another young guy, like with Alsonso and Grandal getting sent for Mat Latos. It doesn’t have to be a trade for an old veteran who makes a lot of money.

      You do know Mat Latos wasn’t a prospect, right? He’d been in the Majors for at least two years. He was an established Major Leaguer who had already proved he was a good pitcher.

      • You do know Mat Latos wasn’t a prospect, right? He’d been in the Majors for at least two years. He was an established Major Leaguer who had already proved he was a good pitcher.

        Alright, fair enough, Mat Latos wasn’t a prospect, he was a young and inexpensive guy who a team controls long term who the team expects to improve (rather than decline) as he ages. I think there were too many questions about Latos (particularly pitching in San Diego) to say that he was a proven pitcher. Up and coming young player. I’m fine with trading Billy Hamilton for an up and coming young leadoff hitter who is major league ready like, as I said, Adam Eaton. Solve the leadoff spot sooner rather than later.

        • Alright, fair enough, Mat Latos wasn’t a prospect, he was a young and inexpensive guy who a team controls long term who the team expects to improve (rather than decline) as he ages.I think there were too many questions about Latos (particularly pitching in San Diego) to say that he was a proven pitcher.Up and coming young player.I’m fine with trading Billy Hamilton for an up and coming young leadoff hitter who is major league ready like, as I said, Adam Eaton.Solve the leadoff spot sooner rather than later.

          Not to mention, with Stubbs regressing, exactly like what some people are calling for Devin to do, Stubbs could just as easily be sent to the minors to get his stroke back. The thing is, he never had much of a stroke in the first place.

  12. IMO, stupid idea to trade Hamilton. It would better be some kind of package coming back. And, I don’t think any club would make a package for someone who isn’t above AA yet. Someone here said Hamilton’s value won’t ever be higher? Let’s see that if/when he steals 100 bases in the majors. Whether he does or not, stupid idea to trade Hamilton.

    Someone said Stubbs has talent. He may, just hardly any of it directly deals with anything offensive in the game of baseball (only how fast he can run; I can’t say stealing bases, because you have to get on base to steal bases), just a bit more defensively (doesn’t go back well, thus the reason he plays so far back; doesn’t come up well, thus the reason a lot of balls drop in front of him; he doesn’t run full speed into the alleys because he has overrun the balls, having to go another 5 yards just to stop and turn around). Nope, for baseball, Stubbs hasn’t shown me any talent. He hasn’t shown me much potential for baseball, either. His talents lends him much better to track or maybe football, not baseball.

    Given that, I could take Stubbs until Hamilton is ready. We aren’t going to get an All-Star for a CF until Hamilton is ready. There is going to be something wrong with them. I could easily see Fowler here in CF. But, I could also see us putting Bruce in CF and Frazier in RF, with Ludwick in LF. But, if we decide to keep Stubbs starting, he shouldn’t see the light of day above the 7 hole.

  13. IMO, I can understand the lookout for a leadoff hitter. However, I still feel the bigger need would be for a 4 hole hitter. First, a better bat leading off will help us. But, that could also mean just the more that Votto would walk, since there isn’t a threat in the 4 hole. Second, I believe BP can handle leading off fine, as long as he doesn’t think he can still more bases than he thinks he can. I would have no problem with Cozart in the 2 hole, at least to start the season, giving him about a month, to see if he does turn it around.

  14. @RC: Amen. Trust me, relieving is typically more strenuous on pitchers’ arms. Relievers do not have the luxury of full rest and being on a regimen. Chapman is precisely the type of pitcher who is much more likely, over the long haul, to see his health jeopardized by relieving.

    • @RC: Amen.Trust me, relieving is typically more strenuous on pitchers’ arms.Relievers do not have the luxury of full rest and being on a regimen.Chapman is precisely the type of pitcher who is much more likely, over the long haul, to see his health jeopardized by relieving.

      That is partly why Baker needs to be smarter in working his relievers. It seems like he has a rotation something like, leading after 6 innings, Logan, Marshall, Chapman, or behind after 6 innings, Hoover, Simon, and Lecure in some capacity. The question would be, this doesn’t work if the Reds are leading after 6 innings three straight days. Just like with Harang, a starter, Baker didn’t use him smart.

      There are many starters out there, also, with injured arms. It just comes down to smart usage by the manager as well as the players speaking up about injuries.

  15. @steveschoen: Interesting. You’re a fan of Billy Hamilton but you dislike Stubbs because you feel like his talents are more suited for track or football? You realize that Billy Hamilton’s main skill is speed, right? That’s pretty much all he has. Unlike Stubbs he has absolutely no homerun power. He was moved from shortstop for bad defense despite defense being Stubbs’ calling card. We’ll have to wait and see if Hamilton possesses the most important of the five tools, the ability to hit for average. It’s a huge question mark as he faces tougher and tougher pitching. Also the higher you get in baseball the harder it gets to steal bases. Billy Hamilton isn’t going to burst onto the scenes and steal 100+ bases a year, but as long as anybody expects him to do that I think his trade value is as high as it’ll get.

    Brandon Phillips is a horrible choice for a leadoff hitter and I think he deserves better than to be throw back into that mess. Let him hit second all year and I think he’ll win (another) Silver Slugger, but not if he’s shifting between roles again.

    • @steveschoen: Interesting.You’re a fan of Billy Hamilton but you dislike Stubbs because you feel like his talents are more suited for track or football?You realize that Billy Hamilton’s main skill is speed, right?That’s pretty much all he has.Unlike Stubbs he has absolutely no homerun power.He was moved from shortstop for bad defense despite defense being Stubbs’ calling card.We’ll have to wait and see if Hamilton possesses the most important of the five tools, the ability to hit for average.It’s a huge question mark as he faces tougher and tougher pitching.Also the higher you get in baseball the harder it gets to steal bases.Billy Hamilton isn’t going to burst onto the scenes and steal 100+ bases a year, but as long as anybody expects him to do that I think his trade value is as high as it’ll get.

      Brandon Phillips is a horrible choice for a leadoff hitter and I think he deserves better than to be throw back into that mess.Let him hit second all year and I think he’ll win (another) Silver Slugger, but not if he’s shifting between roles again.

      You do realize that Stubbs can’t hit a baseball, right? Which would take away from being able to use his speed as well as meaning fewer HR’s. He moved from SS because CF is also easier on the body than SS, aka Ricky Henderson, Vince Coleman, Willie McGee. Get the picture? It is obvious that Hamilton already has more stolen base skills than Stubbs. After all, it’s not just speed. Morgan proved that, being one of the slower runners on the team but excellent at studying the pitchers and getting the jump. Not to mention, Hamilton is putting up BA/OBP numbers that Stubbs as never seen. You need to check the number, RFM.

      Don’t need a leadoff hitter to hit HR’s. Just get on base to be driven in.

      Little difference batting 1 or 2. Negligible for BP. He has and can fill that position fine.

    • @steveschoen: Interesting.You’re a fan of Billy Hamilton but you dislike Stubbs because you feel like his talents are more suited for track or football?You realize that Billy Hamilton’s main skill is speed, right?That’s pretty much all he has.Unlike Stubbs he has absolutely no homerun power.He was moved from shortstop for bad defense despite defense being Stubbs’ calling card.We’ll have to wait and see if Hamilton possesses the most important of the five tools, the ability to hit for average.It’s a huge question mark as he faces tougher and tougher pitching.Also the higher you get in baseball the harder it gets to steal bases.Billy Hamilton isn’t going to burst onto the scenes and steal 100+ bases a year, but as long as anybody expects him to do that I think his trade value is as high as it’ll get.

      Brandon Phillips is a horrible choice for a leadoff hitter and I think he deserves better than to be throw back into that mess.Let him hit second all year and I think he’ll win (another) Silver Slugger, but not if he’s shifting between roles again.

      Not to mention, I think we have the SS position taken care of with Cozart and Didi for quite a while. Hamilton wasn’t needed there. Switch him while he’s young and can still make the adjustment.

  16. J.J. Cooper has a very nice article over at BA on BA’s selection of the reds as their 2012 Organization of the Year.

    http://ht.ly/fOHK8

    Interestingly, the article makes no mention of Mr. Baker.

    • J.J. Cooper has a very nice article over at BA on BA’s selection of the reds as their 2012 Organization of the Year.

      http://ht.ly/fOHK8

      Interestingly, the article makes no mention of Mr. Baker.

      It’s about how the organization is run and how players have been developed. It rarely mentions the owner, except for their role in hiring Walt Jocketty. Dusty’s job is to manage the players given to him by the organization. I don’t take that as a knock against Dusty.

      Fortunately it gives some credit to Dan O’Brien and Wayne Krivsky for their contributions. It seems like their contributions are frequently ignored or forgotten.

  17. When you trade for a prospect, you’re trading based on potential and nothing else. When you trade for a Major Leaguer, you’re trading for a proven track record PLUS the potential they’ve shown.

    That’s why you don’t see many star players, or even above average players, get traded for prospects in a one-for-one trade. Obviously, some organizations value potential more than others (see: Minnesota Twins).

  18. @steveschoen: At least I’m having fun discussing this with you, Steve.

    Billy Hamilton already has more stolen base skills than Stubbs, and it’s not just speed? I’ve read scouting reports about Billy Hamilton but I’m wondering if you have. They all seem to imply that he’s stealing based on speed and lacks good technique, something that he needs to work on if he’s going to become a successful basestealer in MLB.

    Nope, you don’t need power to bat leadoff but it’s strange to diss Stubbs for having a different set of skills from Hamilton. I think we all agree that Stubbs shouldn’t be leading off but that doesn’t mean that homerun power isn’t a skill or something good, even hitting 7th or 8th in the lineup. I think Billy Hamilton – all singles, all speed, all the time – is more of a one-dimensional guy, but we’ll see.

    I don’t think Billy Hamilton was moved to CF because shortstop was filled, I think he was primarily moved because the scouting reports all said he was terrible defensively and his fastest route to the Reds was as an outfielder – the priority is to get his bat ready to join the Reds lineup. A weak or inconsistent throwing arm can be scratched off the list of concerns about him in his new position.

    • @steveschoen: At least I’m having fun discussing this with you, Steve.

      Billy Hamilton already has more stolen base skills than Stubbs, and it’s not just speed?I’ve read scouting reports about Billy Hamilton but I’m wondering if you have.They all seem to imply that he’s stealing based on speed and lacks good technique, something that he needs to work on if he’s going to become a successful basestealer in MLB.

      Nope, you don’t need power to bat leadoff but it’s strange to diss Stubbs for having a different set of skills from Hamilton.I think we all agree that Stubbs shouldn’t be leading off but that doesn’t mean that homerun power isn’t a skill or something good, even hitting 7th or 8th in the lineup.I think Billy Hamilton – all singles, all speed, all the time – is more of a one-dimensional guy, but we’ll see.

      I don’t think Billy Hamilton was moved to CF because shortstop was filled, I think he was primarily moved because the scouting reports all said he was terrible defensively and his fastest route to the Reds was as an outfielder – the priority is to get his bat ready to join the Reds lineup.A weak or inconsistent throwing arm can be scratched off the list of concerns about him in his new position.

      Sorry, RFM, there’s no discussion; it’s fact. Hamilton is better right now than Stubbs was at the same level of the organization. Only way SS isn’t filled is if we switch Cozart and Didi positions or let them go somehow. Better move to switch Hamilton. We are still looking at moving Cozart and/or Didi this season or next season.

  19. I agree with you that the Reds trading Hamilton is possible, maybe even desirable, but I don’t agree with your reasoning as to why he’d be traded.

    From all reports, he has to work on baserunning, so that part is true. However, I’ve heard that he had excellent range and a good enough arm to stick at SS. He was simply blocked by two other good players.
    If he were traded for a good, young, controlled leadoff hitter with good defense, I’d think it was a good trade.

    What the Reds did was extremely shrewd. SS is the most difficult position to play. There’s a reason why many say that a player who can play SS can play anywhere. The Reds simply took their excess of prospects at SS and turned one of them into a CF in order to allow him to reach the Majors sooner.

    I’d be more concerned if they HADN’T moved him, to be honest. The fact that they haven’t moved Gregorius means, to me, that there’s a stronger possibility than Jocketty has let on that one of the Reds SS will be traded.

    Then again, it may just be depth. Why mess with two plus plus defenders in a premium position when you don’t have to?

    • From all reports, he has to work on baserunning, so that part is true.

      Where are these reports? How do you steal 155 bases in an environment where everyone knows your intentions yet you succeed regardless?

      Ultimately, it’s simple math. Hamilton can get from point A to point B faster than the pitcher and catcher can deliver the ball from the mound to home to second. Major leaguers will not have a solution to this equation. But even if they curtail his theft by 50%, you’re still looking at an elite prospect.

      • Where are these reports? How do you steal 155 bases in an environment where everyone knows your intentions yet you succeed regardless?Ultimately, it’s simple math. Hamilton can get from point A to point B faster than the pitcher and catcher can deliver the ball from the mound to home to second. Major leaguers will not have a solution to this equation. But even if they curtail his theft by 50%, you’re still looking at an elite prospect.

        I hate to disagree with all of you, but a CS is a wasted out. A successful SB is great, but if you’re caught 50% (just using your number), then you’ve wasted quite a few outs. If he DOES run every time he gets on base, then that would virtually eliminate the advantage his higher OBP would grant.

        Just saying. I agree with the Sabermetric guys that SB are overrated to a certain extent, because each CS is a wasted out. If the CS go down to virtually nothing, which with his speed is definitely possible, nobody could stop him. He’d score almost every time he got on base.

        • I hate to disagree with all of you, but a CS is a wasted out. A successful SB is great, but if you’re caught 50% (just using your number), then you’ve wasted quite a few outs. If he DOES run every time he gets on base, then that would virtually eliminate the advantage his higher OBP would grant.

          Just saying. I agree with the Sabermetric guys that SB are overrated to a certain extent, because each CS is a wasted out. If the CS go down to virtually nothing, which with his speed is definitely possible, nobody could stop him. He’d score almost every time he got on base.

          It’s not just his speed, but also the threat of his speed. If he plays it right, he can cause headaches to pitchers trying to keep him close to 1st to keep him from stealing. The least little bit of attention taken off the hitter, the least little effect it has on the pitch, could be the difference between a hit and an out for the next batter.

          You are right, CS is a wasted out. But, so is K-ing with the bat. And, we have only one real threat batting, Votto. But, the threat of it is what’s important with that, just like if we had a batting threat behind Votto.

        • To be fair, I had also read multiple scouting reports (I believe, though I suppose it could have been multiple reports of the same one) that Hamilton had made little progress with his D at short, and questioning his technique on the bases.There was already talk of moving him to CF before Stubbs’ 2012 faceplant kind of forced the issue.

          One has to allow for the possibility that his gaudy OBP and SB numbers are at least partly due to playing against A level infielders and catchers.

          And I don’t believe Hamilton would have been considered “blocked” at SS if he played the position well, certainly not by Cozart or Gregorius.If he can get on base at *anywhere near* the rate he’s gotten on in the minors, he’ll be a huge addition, and I don’t care if he doesn’t steal base one.

          Well said.

          If the Reds believed in Billy Hamilton at shortstop they could have kept him there and eventually traded Cozart. Instead they converted him to CF, somewhere where it should take him less time to develop defensively and where he should no longer be held back by his defense. Brandon Phillips was moved to secondbase years ago for similar reasons and I believe Phillips’ new extension, not Cozart’s presence, is what determined that Hamilton would move to CF.

          It’s not just his speed, but also the threat of his speed.If he plays it right, he can cause headaches to pitchers trying to keep him close to 1st to keep him from stealing.The least little bit of attention taken off the hitter, the least little effect it has on the pitch, could be the difference between a hit and an out for the next batter.

          You are right, CS is a wasted out.But, so is K-ing with the bat.And, we have only one real threat batting, Votto.But, the threat of it is what’s important with that, just like if we had a batting threat behind Votto.

          I’m just curious – Drew Stubbs reaches base 150, 200, 200+ times a year and provides a big distraction each time. Why do people seem to appreciate the threat of stolen bases when Hamilton is on but consider it irrelevant whenever Stubbs is on?

      • Where are these reports?How do you steal 155 bases in an environment where everyone knows your intentions yet you succeed regardless?

        Ultimately, it’s simple math.Hamilton can get from point A to point B faster than the pitcher and catcher can deliver the ball from the mound to home to second.Major leaguers will not have a solution to this equation.But even if they curtail his theft by 50%, you’re still looking at an elite prospect.

        Agreed. I do believe stealing bases is still an art, a science, that needs to be studied as well as the need for speed. But, you don’t steal 100 bases by just being fast. He also had to get on base, also, something Stubbs hasn’t done.

  20. @redsfanman: Do you always suck this much oxygen out of a room?

    Too often, in order to back up your assertions, you take a single past critique or comment about a player (Hamilton’s stealing technique/Latos’ park factor) and posit it as if it’s the prevailing conventional wisdom. Please stick to just speaking for yourself.

    • Word. It’s like Debbie Downer and Bill O’Reilly had a kid. Things are terrible and you are wrong if you think otherwise.

      @redsfanman: Do you always suck this much oxygen out of a room?

      Too often, in order to back up your assertions, you take a single past critique or comment about a player (Hamilton’s stealing technique/Latos’ park factor) and posit it as if it’s the prevailing conventional wisdom.Please stick to just speaking for yourself.

    • Where are these reports?How do you steal 155 bases in an environment where everyone knows your intentions yet you succeed regardless?

      Ultimately, it’s simple math.Hamilton can get from point A to point B faster than the pitcher and catcher can deliver the ball from the mound to home to second.Major leaguers will not have a solution to this equation.But even if they curtail his theft by 50%, you’re still looking at an elite prospect.

      I can look for a scouting report later that discusses stealing on speed vs demostrating good basestealing technique.

      Have you ever watched Johnny Cueto and Aroldis Chapman hold runners and pick runners off first? Great pickoff moves. Have you ever noticed how guys seem to steal bases whenever they want against Mat Latos? Some catchers are also much better at throwing out basestealers than others. As you rise through the minors and eventually reach the majors you face better and better players.

      How do you steal 155 bases in an environment where everyone knows your intention? I guess you face AA pitchers and catchers who aren’t ready for MLB. It’ll get harder, not easier, as he moves up. Hamilton nullifies the advantage of getting on base every time he gets caught stealing. It matters that he’s on base when Joey Votto comes up, not whether he struck out or got caught stealing after a hit.

      @redsfanman: Do you always suck this much oxygen out of a room?

      Too often, in order to back up your assertions, you take a single past critique or comment about a player (Hamilton’s stealing technique/Latos’ park factor) and posit it as if it’s the prevailing conventional wisdom.Please stick to just speaking for yourself.

      Making conversation related to the points presented.

      • How do you steal 155 bases in an environment where everyone knows your intention?I guess you face AA pitchers and catchers who aren’t ready for MLB.It’ll get harder, not easier, as he moves up.Hamilton nullifies the advantage of getting on base every time he gets caught stealing.It matters that he’s on base when Joey Votto comes up, not whether he struck out or got caught stealing after a hit.

        Making conversation related to the points presented.

        Not much of a conversation.

  21. This is completely unrelated, but the Mets are trying to trade RA Dickey for multiple top prospects. Their reasoning? Other teams have a higher chance of extending him than they do.

    I understand the logic, but it seems hilarious to me (as someone whose team is unaffected) that people trading for him have to pay extra simply because they have a better chance of POSSIBLY resigning him.

  22. If I remember correctly, Stubbs wasn’t a power hitter until he reached the Majors…

    I may be wrong, but wasn’t that at the tail end of the Dunn/Griffey era? I think it was right after they were traded, before the Reds coaching staff adjusted.

    • If I remember correctly, Stubbs wasn’t a power hitter until he reached the Majors…

      I’ve heard that and scratch my head. When he was in Dayton, he broke the window in the top floor of a building across the street from 5/3 stadium for a home run. I’m guessing it was at least 450 feet. He had plenty of power, but it wasn’t his game until he got to the big leagues from some reason. He was a contact hitter in the minors unless the pitcher made a mistake. (In that same game I say Francisco hit a homer over the dragon on the score board in center field.)

  23. Marlins are asking for 3 top prospects, plus likely two other players for Stanton. Moot point, again, but that would probably be BHam, Gregorius, Cingrani or Corcino, and two others.

    Would YOU pull the trigger?

    • Who is reporting this? I was thinking the Marlins brass have declared him untouchable. . . .

      Marlins are asking for 3 top prospects, plus likely two other players for Stanton. Moot point, again, but that would probably be BHam, Gregorius, Cingrani or Corcino, and two others.

      Would YOU pull the trigger?

      • Never mind. . . I found the report. This is interesting. However, I don’t think Walt is in any way inclined to jettison three “top-level” prospects (plus two others) for Stanton.

        Who is reporting this?I was thinking the Marlins brass have declared him untouchable. . . .

    • Marlins are asking for 3 top prospects, plus likely two other players for Stanton. Moot point, again, but that would probably be BHam, Gregorius, Cingrani or Corcino, and two others.
      Would YOU pull the trigger?

      Hell yes, in a heartbeat. As long as it didn’t include Cingrani. And it may be possible to do it without including Hamilton or Stephenson, but it would include Chapman. For Chapman, Stubbs, H-Rod, Corcino, and Soto it would be possible. I would include Didi but the Marlins got 2 SS from Toronto in the Big trade. So H-Rod and Soto instead of Didi, but if they wanted Didi, it could be worked out.

  24. To be fair, I had also read multiple scouting reports (I believe, though I suppose it could have been multiple reports of the same one) that Hamilton had made little progress with his D at short, and questioning his technique on the bases. There was already talk of moving him to CF before Stubbs’ 2012 faceplant kind of forced the issue.

    One has to allow for the possibility that his gaudy OBP and SB numbers are at least partly due to playing against A level infielders and catchers.

    And I don’t believe Hamilton would have been considered “blocked” at SS if he played the position well, certainly not by Cozart or Gregorius. If he can get on base at *anywhere near* the rate he’s gotten on in the minors, he’ll be a huge addition, and I don’t care if he doesn’t steal base one.

    • prospects, plus likely two other players for Stanton. Moot point, again, but that would probably be BHam, Gregorius, Cingrani or Corcino, and two others.

      Would YOU pull the trigger?

      Agreed. But, then, that would mean moving Cozart and Didi. And, moving several SS within that short length of time? It wouldn’t take too much thinking to move Hamilton to CF.

  25. I think the common perception is that Stubbs doesn’t steal nearly as much as he should. Not my opinion, as I don’t have the stats, but I know many people believe it.

    • I think the common perception is that Stubbs doesn’t steal nearly as much as he should. Not my opinion, as I don’t have the stats, but I know many people believe it.

      It’s always funny to watch how pitchers treat Stubbs as a baserunner compared to, say, Joey Votto. Stubbs is held close, lots of throws over, somebody usually has their eye on him. It’s a big distraction even when he doesn’t shown a sign of running. Joey Votto has 41 career stolen bases (season high was 16) because teams don’t consider him a potential basestealer.

      Stubbs has rarely been offered easy opportunities to steal (like I believe Votto has been) because opposing teams are so careful and teams will likely be far more careful with Billy Hamilton.

      • It’s always funny to watch how pitchers treat Stubbs as a baserunner compared to, say, Joey Votto.Stubbs is held close, lots of throws over, somebody usually has their eye on him.It’s a big distraction even when he doesn’t shown a sign of running.Joey Votto has 41 career stolen bases (season high was 16) because teams don’t consider him a potential basestealer.

        Stubbs has rarely been offered easy opportunities to steal (like I believe Votto has been) because opposing teams are so careful and teams will likely be far more careful with Billy Hamilton.

        Stubbs rarely steals because he’s rarely on base.

        • Stubbs rarely steals because he’s rarely on base.

          HA! I get it. Clever. Stubbs has led the Reds in stolen bases every year of his major league career, hasn’t he? Must be doing something right.

        • HA!I get it.Clever.Stubbs has led the Reds in stolen bases every year of his major league career, hasn’t he?Must be doing something right.

          That doesn’t mean the Reds are a prolific SB machine. Check the numbers. For the fastest man in baseball, way faster than Morgan was most likely, his numbers are nowhere near a SB threat.

      • It’s always funny to watch how pitchers treat Stubbs as a baserunner compared to, say, Joey Votto.Stubbs is held close, lots of throws over, somebody usually has their eye on him.It’s a big distraction even when he doesn’t shown a sign of running.Joey Votto has 41 career stolen bases (season high was 16) because teams don’t consider him a potential basestealer.

        Stubbs has rarely been offered easy opportunities to steal (like I believe Votto has been) because opposing teams are so careful and teams will likely be far more careful with Billy Hamilton.

        As well as, he apparently hasn’t developed any approach to stealing. He doesn’t seem to work the pitcher, get a jump, etc. He seems to only rely on his speed. Morgan was known not to be the fastest but for his study of the pitchers and getting jumps. Stubbs needs to use his brain (doesn’t seem to be much talent up there) as much as his physical skills.

        • As well as, he apparently hasn’t developed any approach to stealing.He doesn’t seem to work the pitcher, get a jump, etc.He seems to only rely on his speed.Morgan was known not to be the fastest but for his study of the pitchers and getting jumps.Stubbs needs to use his brain (doesn’t seem to be much talent up there) as much as his physical skills.

          I saw Morgan pretty much steal a game from the the Cubs one Sunday afternoon in either 1975 or 76 and, he did it without stealing a base.

          Second game of a double header. Rick Reushel was twirling a dandy for the Cubbies who had scratched out a run and were looking to make it stand up for a 1-0 win. Morgan drew a walk then went to work on Reushel, drawing throw after throw with some step offs in between. I don’t remember if Johnny Bench was the very next batter after Morgan reached; but in the sequence with Morgan at first badgering Reushel, he grooved one to Bench who nailed it for a 2-1 Reds lead and eventual win.

          That is the personification of the total effect of the threat of a running game to which someone referred up the thread a ways.

        • I saw Morgan pretty much steal a game from the the Cubs one Sunday afternoon in either 1975 or 76 and, he did it without stealing a base……

          …That is the personification of the total effect of the threat of a running game to which someone referred up the thread a ways.

          For the record, I did a memory check on myself. This game was June 8, 1975. My only major mistaken memory was that it was the first and not second game of the DH.

          The Cubs had taken a 1-0 lead in the 6th inning. Morgan (batting 3rd) led off the 7th with a walk. Bench was batting 4th and hit the 2 run HR for the Reds only two runs of the game. Winning pitcher for the Reds was Gary Nolan who pitched a complete game that day.

          Reds went on to take the sweep with an 8-5 win in the 2nd game.

    • I think the common perception is that Stubbs doesn’t steal nearly as much as he should. Not my opinion, as I don’t have the stats, but I know many people believe it.

      When Baker has to bunt him over to 2nd, it seems pretty obvious.

  26. 8 million dollars for two years of Keppinger. I’m on board. Heck, go 3/11 or 3/10 if he would rather have security.

    • 8 million dollars for two years of Keppinger. I’m on board. Heck, go 3/11 or 3/10 if he would rather have security.

      Love the Kepp man.

  27. Guys.

    Let’s have a nice, calm, civil discussion while keeping an open mind to others opinions.

    This isn’t politics. C’mon.

  28. And as soon as I post that I feel like a *INSERT DEROGATORY TERM HERE*, as you all stopped right before.

    Sorry.

  29. Who is winning the offseason so far for the most ridiculous contract? BJ Upton at $75m over 5 years? Angel Pagan at $40m over 4 years? Shane Victorino being offered $37.5m over 3 years? Jonathan Broxton for $21m over 3 years? Somebody else?

    My vote is for Pagan.

    • @Bob Purkey:
      @redsfanman:

      Vitorino @ 3 years, $39MM by Boston

      I’m sorry, but that is simply absurd & insane for Victorino & Boston is not even going to play him in CF. C’mon WJ … show ‘em how a real GM puts a winner on the field! :twisted:

  30. (mlb.com has a story that says the Reds may be close with Ludwick. But it also said this, which I find interesting. Kubel caught my eye …)

    If the Reds and Ludwick are unable to come to terms, they could look to a similar outfielder like Cody Ross, who was in the free-agent picture last winter.

    “We’d probably look at a couple of free agents like that, or work a little bit harder at trades,” Jocketty said.

    On that front, Jocketty did speak with the D-backs, who are reportedly looking to move outfielders Jason Kubel and Gerardo Parra.

    “We’ve had some discussions. We don’t see a match … yet,” Jocketty said.

  31. @vegastypo: I saw that article too. Jocketty said that if the Reds fail to sign Ryan Ludwick they’ll look harder at trades – I sure hope Ludwick doesn’t sign, it doesn’t look like they’re solving the leadoff problem through free agency.

    Kubel? No thanks. 150 strikeouts while hitting .253 with a .327 OBP isn’t what the Reds need out of a cleanup hitter. It’s unlikely that a lefty would hit behind Joey Votto. In some ways Kubel is like Adam Dunn, just without the positives (40 homeruns, walks).

    Parra, maybe. He’s not necessarily any better than Drew Stubbs but he’s a new name to throw into that revolving door of disgrace at leadoff. He doesn’t strike out as much as Stubbs but he doesn’t do much of anything significantly better than Stubbs either.

    Hopefully the Reds can pull off a trade for Adam Eaton, Arizona’s young CF. Unfortunately it seems unlikely they’d give him up.

  32. Kubel is a classic platoon guy. Career .279/.343/.498 versus RHP. 238/.308/.383 versus LHP.

    He’s a serviceable option. Dusty would probably mess it up though, the same way he did it with Gomes.

    • Kubel is a classic platoon guy.Career .279/.343/.498 versus RHP.238/.308/.383 versus LHP.

      He’s a serviceable option.Dusty would probably mess it up though, the same way hedid it with Gomes.

      So he doesn’t lead off, wouldn’t hit cleanup (between lefties Votto and Bruce), doesn’t play full time, and can’t hit lefties. I don’t see where he fits in. Pass.

  33. Pass on Kubel. Pull the trigger on a trade for Parra. A young gold glove LF with a cannon arm that can hit 2nd. That would mean Phillips as leadoff. Doesn’t solve the cleanup spot however.

    • Pass on Kubel.Pull the trigger on a trade for Parra.A young gold glove LF with a cannon arm that can hit 2nd.That would mean Phillips as leadoff. Doesn’t solve the cleanup spot however.

      Minor detail – If Parra was acquired I think you can be pretty sure that the lefty Parra would lead off and Phillips would hit second, not the other way around. I’ve seen enough of Phillips leading off and Dusty is reluctant to bat lefties (including Parra and Votto) back to back. Doesn’t solve the cleanup spot or provide a good leadoff hitter but it WOULD replace Drew Stubbs, which seems more important than anything else to some fans.

    • And it’s almost official. Reds resign Ludwick.

      Almost official in that Ludwick might have recognized that the most the Reds will give him is two years. All Jocketty has said is that they’re in the same ballpark. No terms have yet been announced and nobody has signed anything. Maybe something will be official in the next few days.

    • It’s a new tweet from someone. I forget their exact name.

      Well, Yahoo’s Jeff Passan’s tweet is mentioned in the article on MLBTradeRumors. It says they’re close on a deal, which is what Jocketty said hours earlier. I assume that’s what you’re referring to, but MLBTradeRumors and John Fay aren’t saying more than that.

    • It’s a new tweet from someone. I forget their exact name.

      Jeff Passan of Yahoo:

      I am sort of in the camp that Ludwick really wants to come back with the Reds; and, his folks know this is the best offer from the Reds and that WJ is ready to close the deal or move on. So Ryan has a decision to make probably overnight.

  34. If Ludwick doesn’t sign with the Reds, I think Cody Ross would be an interesting acquisition. He had that cup of coffee with the Reds in 2006 and has seemingly stung them at virtually every opportunity since then.

  35. I have a good feeling about Ludwick returning – but like the queen of hearts, we’re kind of running in place if we don’t do something else…I’m sure I sound like a broken record at this point, but if we waste a starting position on someone batting .213 and regressing, ESPECIALLY if we put them in the top of the order, at the expense in the lineup of a near ROY…we’re wasting a talented lineup and cutting our own throats.

  36. I have a good feeling about Ludwick returning – but like the queen of hearts, we’re kind of running in place if we don’t do something else…I’m sure I sound like a broken record at this point, but if we waste a starting position on someone batting .213 and regressing, ESPECIALLY if we put them in the top of the order, at the expense in the lineup of a near ROY…we’re wasting a talented lineup and cutting our own throats.

  37. Again, I’m worried that if Ryan Ludwick signs they’ll decide that they’re finished and choose to stand pat without addressing the leadoff issue. I also sound like a broken record at this point but some great leadoff options, like Alex Gordon and Shin-Shoo Choo, are corner outfielders, not centerfielders. Signing Ryan Ludwick further limits the options in a shrinking market for leadoff hitters.

    I think it’s Ludwick OR a good leadoff hitter, I don’t believe they can get both. Once Ludwick is signed I expect them to try to patch leadoff with scraps – like Coco Crisp – rather than somebody capable of doing a good job and getting on base.

  38. Can’t argue with you there…I think we could find a LFer internally more easily than a leadoff hitter…but they’ll stick the incompetent Stubby at leadoff before they’d bring in someone like Crisp…

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