2013 Reds

Reds interested in Shane Victorino?

There are reports that the Reds are among the suitors for Shane Victorino.

You’ll remember the reports that the Reds nixed a Logan Ondrusek-for-Victorino trade just before the 2012 trade deadline. And yes, if those reports were true and the Reds really did turn down that trade opportunity, it’s precisely as insane as it sounds.

Victorino is going to be 32 next year, and he had a pretty poor 2012. That said, his numbers were way off his career norms, and I have a feeling Victorino isn’t quite finished yet. His fielding remains good, and he gets on base.

Plus, his 3.3 WAR (in an off-year) dwarfed the 1.3 WAR posted by Drew Stubbs last year. I think Victorino can help this team.

37 thoughts on “Reds interested in Shane Victorino?

  1. It could be a lot worse, but I think I’d withhold judgment until I see the contract. The potential for error is pretty high here.

  2. I think Victorino is worth going after. If they sign him I would think it almost certainly means they don’t sign Ludwick which would probably lead to a trade for an OF bat.

  3. It sounds like Jocketty is looking to make a FA signing or two in front of the winter meetings so he knows what he needs to work on at the meetings in the way of trades.

    • It sounds like Jocketty is looking to make a FA signing or two in front of the winter meetings so he knows what he needs to work on at the meetings in the way of trades.

      I’m not so sure. Some of these FAs are going fast and acquiring a CF that is more than just paint on the barn means you can’t wait to see what you get from the bargin bin in February.

      On another note, adding Victorino to an already solid clubhouse is a good move. Of all the guys I’ve heard bounced around (Coco Crisp, Michael Bourn, Angel Pagan…) Victorino by all accounts is a great teammate and good guy to have in your clubhouse. It meets the Joey Votto “no jerks” criteria.

  4. I would be OK with this, so long as the contract is reasonable. First, Victorino had a pretty bad year for him but was still light-years better than Stubbs. Plus, he put up an outstanding year the year before (2011 – 5.9 WAR), so I think there is opportunity for upside there. Also, this would allow us to be patient with Billy Hamilton, who I think still probably needs some work in the minors.

  5. The Reds are one of what, 7 teams competing for Victorino? I think it’s pretty unlikely that he’ll end up with the Reds. The Reds would probably move him, at least part time, to LF while another team is sure to give him an opportunity in centerfield. I don’t think the Reds should be looking for any long term contracts for leadoff hitting outfielders with Billy Hamilton so close.

    That said, I was completely opposed to trading for him last season during his mediocre season at the expense of a (then) key member of the bullpen. I’m also fine with signing him as a free agent if he takes a reasonable contract – say, $5m or less. He’s a gold glove caliber switch hitting outfielder who can hit leadoff. He’d be an improvement over Stubbs/Cozart/Phillips at leadoff, but not by much. A .341 career OBP and he may be on the decline after dropping to .321 last season.

    Something to keep in mind, Victorino would be signed as the leadoff hitter. Dusty and the Reds would keep him leading off for a long time, regardless of how badly he does in 2013. If 2012 wasn’t a fluke the Reds would be stuck for months with a crummy leadoff hitter who, bad as he may get, is better than the other candidates on the roster.

  6. If it’s a reasonable, short term contract (no more than 2 years), sure I’d look at it.

    2 years, 10 million, I’d do it. Then what happens to Stubbs? Package him with Cozart and a minor league pitcher for a small prospect haul? Cozart would be the centerpiece of that deal; shortstops are in big demand.

  7. He’ll get at least 2/14, and maybe even as much as 3/21, much like Josh Willingham. If the Reds feel they can afford that, sure. If not, then we have plenty of trade options.

    Free Agency is such a crapshoot for mid market teams, because they have a bit of wiggle room, but whatever they do has to exceed expectations (see: Ludwick). Unfortunately, you’re then at risk of having your big sign turn out to be a major flop (see: Madson), which can potentially set you back years, depending on the contract.

    • @rhayex:

      He’ll get at least 2/14, and maybe even as much as 3/21, much like Josh Willingham. If the Reds feel they can afford that, sure. If not, then we have plenty of trade options.

      Free Agency is such a crapshoot for mid market teams, because they have a bit of wiggle room, but whatever they do has to exceed expectations (see: Ludwick). Unfortunately, you’re then at risk of having your big sign turn out to be a major flop (see: Madson), which can potentially set you back years, depending on the contract.

      I agree with your entire post, especially with the 3/21. $7M a year my be at the low range, but I believe it to be in the window. I’d even be okay with a 4 year, $30M contract.

  8. @OhioJim:

    I agree. I believe he has a if this, then that-if that, then this organised mind.One goal, several options for getting there. By the way, isn’t Reggie a former Heisman winner?

    • @OhioJim:

      I agree. I believe he has a if this, then that-if that, then this organised mind.One goal, several options for getting there. By the way, isn’t Reggie a formerHeisman winner?

      I am thinking this one over. Does defrocked result in one being former :?:

  9. What I don’t understand is why Walt would focus all of his attention to a leadoff hitter that fills a hole for one year until our highest rated prospect in quite some time is ready to make the leap, which could be as early as June of next season, and yet wouldn’t even come remotely close to the still biggest issue facing the Reds: protection for Votto. I know people want to hold on to Leake/Bailey/Cozart, but If Billy Hamilton/Shane Victorino/Brandon Phillips are on first, second or third, Votto will still get walked, and I’m pretty sure it’ll be because Todd Frazier doesn’t scare anyone. the Reds have the means to go get a true thumper of a right handed bat that can help both Votto and Bruce, while offering more thump for a lineup that is currently lacking it. Why not go get a young stud/prime aged stud to plug in at the four hole? If David Wright or Justin Upton is batting behind Votto, he’ll see a few more pitches per at bat, that’s a guarantee. And that is infinitely more valuable to the Reds than a stop-gap table setter, though the Reds should still get one. It just shouldn’t be priority number one.

    • What I don’t understand is why Walt would focus all of his attention to a leadoff hitter that fills a hole for one year until our highest rated prospect in quite some time is ready to make the leap, which could be as early as June of next season, and yet wouldn’t even come remotely close to the still biggest issue facing the Reds: protection for Votto. I know people want to hold on to Leake/Bailey/Cozart, but If Billy Hamilton/Shane Victorino/Brandon Phillips are on first, second or third, Votto will still get walked, and I’m pretty sure it’ll be because Todd Frazier doesn’t scare anyone. the Reds have the means to go get a true thumper of a right handed bat that can help both Votto and Bruce, while offering more thump for a lineup that is currently lacking it. Why not go get a young stud/prime aged stud to plug in at the four hole? If David Wright or Justin Upton is batting behind Votto, he’ll see a few more pitches per at bat, that’s a guarantee. And that is infinitely more valuable to the Reds than a stop-gap table setter, though the Reds should still get one. It just shouldn’t be priority number one.

      I agree with you. Also, I believe Jocketty knows this as well. In my estimation, signing Broxton will allow the most pressing pitching question to be settled. It sets the rotation and, for the most part, the bullpen. Next, I believe that there are two moves that must be made. As you noted, protection for Votto is one. However, the leadoff issue is one as well. I’m not sure which one will be addressed first, but I believe that both will be addressed. I suspect that much of this hinges on Ludwick’s willingness to sign at a reasonable rate and term. Then, Walt can go get Choo, Span, Fowler, etc.

    • What I don’t understand is why Walt would focus all of his attention to a leadoff hitter that fills a hole for one year until our highest rated prospect in quite some time is ready to make the leap, which could be as early as June of next season, and yet wouldn’t even come remotely close to the still biggest issue facing the Reds: protection for Votto. I know people want to hold on to Leake/Bailey/Cozart, but If Billy Hamilton/Shane Victorino/Brandon Phillips are on first, second or third, Votto will still get walked, and I’m pretty sure it’ll be because Todd Frazier doesn’t scare anyone. the Reds have the means to go get a true thumper of a right handed bat that can help both Votto and Bruce, while offering more thump for a lineup that is currently lacking it. Why not go get a young stud/prime aged stud to plug in at the four hole? If David Wright or Justin Upton is batting behind Votto, he’ll see a few more pitches per at bat, that’s a guarantee. And that is infinitely more valuable to the Reds than a stop-gap table setter, though the Reds should still get one. It just shouldn’t be priority number one.

      I agree with you. I wanted Pence when he left Houston. I could have lived with BP and Cozart in the 1-2 holes. And, if Cozart proved that last season wasn’t just a fluke but how good of a hitter he is, I would assume we would move Frazier to that spot (the 2 hole) in the batting order, assuming he is going to be starting. I don’t believe Frazier, BP, Ludwick, nor Rolen scare anyone in the 4 hole. The one thing, proven 4 hole hitters can be expensive, young or not. Even if team controlled, getting them would cost a lot in players/prospects.

    • What I don’t understand is why Walt would focus all of his attention to a leadoff hitter that fills a hole for one year until our highest rated prospect in quite some time is ready to make the leap, which could be as early as June of next season, and yet wouldn’t even come remotely close to the still biggest issue facing the Reds: protection for Votto. I know people want to hold on to Leake/Bailey/Cozart, but If Billy Hamilton/Shane Victorino/Brandon Phillips are on first, second or third, Votto will still get walked, and I’m pretty sure it’ll be because Todd Frazier doesn’t scare anyone. the Reds have the means to go get a true thumper of a right handed bat that can help both Votto and Bruce, while offering more thump for a lineup that is currently lacking it. Why not go get a young stud/prime aged stud to plug in at the four hole? If David Wright or Justin Upton is batting behind Votto, he’ll see a few more pitches per at bat, that’s a guarantee. And that is infinitely more valuable to the Reds than a stop-gap table setter, though the Reds should still get one. It just shouldn’t be priority number one.

      The Reds have limited resources and can’t waste money on things they don’t need. A ‘true thumper of a right handed bat’ would be nice but it is NOT realistic. In previous season they’ve acquired guys like Rolen, Ludwick, and Gomes to share that role with Brandon Phillips but leadoff always continues to remain the problem they need to address. I expect the new LF to be either a leadoff hitter or a mediocre washed up veteran.

      Why not get a young stud or prime aged stud to plug in the four hole? The Reds can’t even afford Ryan Ludwick, let alone a better free agent. They’re not even bidding on Michael Bourn, the top leadoff hitting free agent. Other younger hitters, like Dexter Fowler, would require a lot of the Reds’ young pitching to make a deal, after the Reds spent years trying to assemble a young pitching staff.

      I think Walt Jocketty recognizes that Billy Hamilton is in the organization, and will probably only a year away. I think he’ll be reluctant to make a huge trade of young pitching when what they need is a 1 year stopgap leadoff hitter. I think David DeJesus of the Cubs would be a great fit who could be acquired for cheap to provide a left handed LF and leadoff hitter.

  10. Like others have probably said, my concern is how much he would cost, for essentially no more than a 2 year rental player? Maybe Uncle Bob is opening his pocketbook a bit more for it; no problem with that. I’m willing to give him a bit of leeway for a poor year this past year. He can definitely help the team. How much, I don’t know.

    As well as, what would this do with the rest of the decisions for this team? Yes, we could improve CF, I believe rather easily. But, we have holes at 3rd and LF; he do have someone in CF. I would rather fill the holes first myself rather than replace players. As well as, with how much we would probably be paying Vic, how much is left to pay for the other holes?

    I wouldn’t change the pitching much at all. It was the pitching that carried us a lot this year. I’d be willing to give Leake a bit of leeway for a poor year this past year, especially since he was one season from being the starter with the most wins the season before. If we did more Leake somewhere, even to AAA or the pen, and move Chapman to starter, Chapman may be talented but he is unproven as a starter. As well as, whoever we get for closer, I don’t think he would be as good as Chapman was. Just remember some of the past several closers we had and their struggles. Success or not, they did have struggles. Chapman still had his as closer, but those were shorter and shorter each season, where they were almost non-existent last season. Also, I can’t help thinking Chapman will be on a pitch/inning count for the season as a starter. Just because he started for Cuba before he came here, does anyone know how many games he started in a 6 month season, how many innings, etc.? I haven’t heard any of that.

    In short, I believe if we move Leake and start Chapman, I can understand our starters may take a hit or may improve, but I do believe our pen will take a hit.

    • Like others have probably said, my concern is how much he would cost, for essentially no more than a 2 year rental player?Maybe Uncle Bob is opening his pocketbook a bit more for it; no problem with that.I’m willing to give him a bit of leeway for a poor year this past year.He can definitely help the team.How much, I don’t know.

      As well as, what would this do with the rest of the decisions for this team?Yes, we could improve CF, I believe rather easily.But, we have holes at 3rd and LF; he do have someone in CF.I would rather fill the holes first myself rather than replace players.As well as, with how much we would probably be paying Vic, how much is left to pay for the other holes?

      I wouldn’t change the pitching much at all.It was the pitching that carried us a lot this year.I’d be willing to give Leake a bit of leeway for a poor year this past year, especially since he was one season from being the starter with the most wins the season before.If we did more Leake somewhere, even to AAA or the pen, and move Chapman to starter, Chapman may be talented but he is unproven as a starter.As well as, whoever we get for closer, I don’t think he would be as good as Chapman was.Just remember some of the past several closers we had and their struggles.Success or not, they did have struggles.Chapman still had his as closer, but those were shorter and shorter each season, where they were almost non-existent last season.Also, I can’t help thinking Chapman will be on a pitch/inning count for the season as a starter.Just because he started for Cuba before he came here, does anyone know how many games he started in a 6 month season, how many innings, etc.?I haven’t heard any of that.

      In short, I believe if we move Leake and start Chapman, I can understand our starters may take a hit or may improve, but I do believe our pen will take a hit.

      Some people are a fan of the Reds shooting themselves in the foot in hopes that they walk better as a result. Moving Chapman to the rotation is questionable because it’ll make the bullpen worse, no question about that, in exchange for completely unpredictable effects on the rotation. Yes, Chapman would have an innings limit like Mike Leake did in his rookie season, he’d be shut down before the postseason like Stephen Strasburg this year. Chapman’s conversion would probably mean the trade for a more consistent and reliable inning eater (Mike Leake) while reigniting dissatisfaction towards the Reds closer that has been faced by every Reds closer in the past decade… other than Chapman.

      Best case scenario, Chapman pitches well and gets shut down early in the season. Worst case scenario, Neftali Feliz-style disastrous conversion that we regret for years. If Leake gets traded to make room and Chapman struggles somebody else, maybe Tony Cingrani, better be ready to take over. Currently Chapman is one of the most dominant closers in MLB but if he struggles and gets removed from the rotation he will have lost most of his credibility and given much of the league a better understanding of his pitches. As I have said, I think the Reds are best off leaving Chapman as the dominant closer and keeping Leake, at least until Tony Cingrani is ready to enter the rotation.

  11. Down year, but yeah. 2/14 was a bit too conservative. It’s more likely to be 2/18.

    He wouldn’t really be a “rental player”. That term is used to describe players traded for that are only going to be with a team for half a season. He’s more of a placeholder, although I wouldn’t really call him that.

    I don’t really know what the Reds are planning right now, but I’ve decided to just trust the leadership we have and hope for the best. They’ve done this long enough that they know what they’re doing.

  12. I can understand what everyone likes about Chapman. But, fact is, he hasn’t even proved himself as an effective starter on AAA hitting. The scouting report was he could go good for about 4 innings, give or take, then nothing after that. That was as a starter, in the middle of the season, against many players who are in the majors right now. Like Pete Rose said, give major league players enough time at it, they will catch up to a 100 mph fastball. They did a couple of times last season.

    I really don’t even care he was the top starter in ST, unless he averaged 7-8 innings each start, which probably wouldn’t happen in ST. It’s not as much a clear cut win/loss if we do/if we don’t type thing. But, it’s the odds of Chapman succeeding with what success gets us compared to keeping that part of the staff as it is (remember, we are also talking about paying out even more money for another closer, which we could be using to fill another hole) and what that gets us, I simply don’t think it’s worth the risk on an unproven major league starter. Even if he is the best starter in ST again, I still say send him to AAA and at least let him prove he can start against those guys before starting him with the big club, having the opportunity to go longer innings, develop a third pitch, etc. For, as many fastballs as he throws, unless he has the accurace of Greg Maddux, I don’t think his talent will hold.

  13. I like how Mike Leake has suddenly became “consistent”. The guy had one month with an ERA under 4.50 last year. I guess that is pretty consistent. :?

    The Reds bungled Chapman big time, but that doesn’t mean he should stay a closer forever. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s privately demanding it.

    Could it not work out? Obviously.

    Could he get hurt starting? Sure!

    (Psss…take a look at the turnover caused by injury at the Closer position the last couple years)

  14. I would LOVE a masher in the four hole, but I’m not sure how realistic that is money and talent-wise in this market. Given that, we need a good OBP guy in front of Joey MVP so he will become Joey RBI. Good baserunners on early and often. alter the flow for the starting pitcher.

    As far as the Missle goes, since he has been mishandled so much to this point, I almost think you have to keep him at the closer position. It’s the only thing we are certain he can do well. It’s a shame to say that at this point in his career, but that’s what we have.

    Leake is another matter. He’s still young and his athleticism and bat handling help hide some of his deficiencies on the mound, and I’m not convinced we have reached the ‘what you see is what you get’ stage for him. And if we do have the trio of Marshall/Broxton/Chapman at the end of the pen, that sure will shorten the game for the less than stellar moments.

    Even if Hamilton is ready in the middle of summer, which is not a lock, he would be heir apparent to the leadoff spot…..it wouldnt be his right away. I wouldn’t mind a Victorino type at the top for a season or two. Billy can still get his bats. Heck, Hamilton might fit better in the two hole until he gets his bearings. I just want someone proven in front of Joey. Vic had a down year, but I think he still has solid ones left in him, and I wouldn’t be half as squeamish having him come to the plate in a late inning situation as opposed to Stubbs.

    In summary, don’t sweat the pitching staff; try to look for a masher, but be prepared to realistically open up the wallet for a leadoff guy.

  15. The worst case scenario is that Chapman stinks as a SP and is moved back to the bullpen. I’ve yet to see any data indicating starters and closers get hurt at different rates.

    If the Reds truly believe Chapman cannot start, then they are completely incompetent for failing to trade him to a team that does.

  16. Walt is going to make a trade. That much is certain. We don’t know if he’ll go after a big bat to go fourth, then sign a cheap-o one year contract for a guy who thought his market price would be higher, but takes a one year flier to get a better contract, a la Madson last season. Walt will make a deal though. The Reds have four obvious holes: lead off guy, four hole hitter, center field, and left field. So you pack two of these together, and seeing as we have a player whom many have called the most exciting player in baseball about to make his jump, I’d say you go long term on a trade for left field, quick fix in center. But we talk about money restrictions, but a lot of people are predicting that the Reds payroll will jump. But if we’re about to spend 9 million a year on a closer, I can’t see a whole lot of free agent options left. So Walt will make some trades. And he knows where the Reds need help. He got us Scotty Rolen when we needed him, he got us Latos and he got us Chapman. Two from trades, and one signing when we had a lot of payroll to fill up. Who does Walt get? Because he’s so damn good at his job, I’d bet a long term young talent to play left or third. And then put Frazier elsewhere. But we’ll see.

    • Walt is going to make a trade. That much is certain. We don’t know if he’ll go after a big bat to go fourth, then sign a cheap-o one year contract for a guy who thought his market price would be higher, but takes a one year flier to get a better contract, a la Madson last season. Walt will make a deal though. The Reds have four obvious holes: lead off guy, four hole hitter, center field, and left field. So you pack two of these together, and seeing as we have a player whom many have called the most exciting player in baseball about to make his jump, I’d say you go long term on a trade for left field, quick fix in center. But we talk about money restrictions, but a lot of people are predicting that the Reds payroll will jump. But if we’re about to spend 9 million a year on a closer, I can’t see a whole lot of free agent options left. So Walt will make some trades. And he knows where the Reds need help. He got us Scotty Rolen when we needed him, he got us Latos and he got us Chapman. Two from trades, and one signing when we had a lot of payroll to fill up. Who does Walt get? Because he’s so damn good at his job, I’d bet a long term young talent to play left or third. And then put Frazier elsewhere. But we’ll see.

      3rd base, also. Really, even if Rolen comes back, you can really only count on him for 100 games. Frazier can fill those and/or LF, but then, he’s really not a typical 4 hole hitter nor leadoff.

      I can see Walt making a move. But, I could see that the last 2 seasons, also, for those exact hitters, and he only made a move for pitching. So, I’m not too sure he will do anything for hitting. Also, I think the speculation clears up a lot if we knew what Ludwick and Rolen were going to commit to or if we commit to Rolen and/or Ludwick or neither of them. I mean, seriously, know what we have and don’t have, it makes it a lot easier to go out and look around.

  17. For what it’s worth, it’s nice to have a GM you trust. I’m not saying he’s perfect (Horst/Valdez) but I have complete confidence in Mr. Jocketty. As much as I liked DO and WK, WJ has been awesome. He makes Hot Stove League fun. Most of the posts are us trying to out-think him and there are some people here I think he should hire as consultants.

  18. Just realized I need to downgrade the enthusiasm of that last post. He also signed Dusty to an extension… twice.

    • Just realized I need to downgrade the enthusiasm of that last post. He also signed Dusty to an extension… twice.

      In fairness to Walt, I think that was more of a Uncle Bob thing.

    • Just realized I need to downgrade the enthusiasm of that last post.He also signed Dusty to an extension… twice.

      Did he do that per the owner’s orders? That’s what I choose to believe.

      • Did he do that per the owner’s orders?That’s what I choose to believe.

        You don’t like Dusty Baker so you assume that Walt Jocketty doesn’t either and was forced into that decision against his will? Why do you have so much faith in Jocketty to make good decisions if you don’t think he’s allowed to make decisions?

        I think the owner(s), the GM, and others in the Reds organization realize that the Reds have performed well with Dusty Baker and wanted him back, regardless of fan objections. Lots of managers have caused controversy and been fired this year while the Reds were very successful and happy. Broxton just cited how much he enjoyed playing for the Reds as a reason for him wanting to return. Bringing back Dusty was an organization agreement that numerous people could have overridden if they felt it was necessary to do so, including Jocketty.

  19. I think we can all agree the Reds mishandled Chapman to this point. Yes, he’s a dominant closer, which is important, but his value is greater if he succeeds as a starter. The only risk is his arm and whether it can handle the stress at this point, but otherwise, if he is not successful converting, then he can be moved back to the bullpen. You can study his pitches all you want. In fact, don’t you think they have. I don’t follow the argument that converting him to a starter gives other teams an opportunity to study his pitches which would make him a less effective closer.

    As far as the whole Strasburg arguement, the Reds will limit his innings but thanks to lessons learned from the Strasburg fiasco they will do it differently. Chapman will be on the roster if they go to the postseason next year.

    Options:

    1.) At some point, depending on the time of year and innings he has left, they will move him back to the bullpen to finish the year. He will not likely spend the whole year in the rotation. If for example they determine his limit is 120 innings (which is very conservative) and he averages 6 innings per outing (which is very unlikely), he will reach 100 inning around the All-Star break. At that point they may choose to move him back to the bullpen to use up the remaining innings.

    AND/OR

    2.) They can put Leake on the same schedule in AAA and shuttle him back and forth to take every 4th or 5th start. Chapman would come in for Leake out of the bullpen for an inning or two to get his work in. He can also take over if Leake gets in to trouble, but it keeps him on his 5 day rotation while resting his arm and lowering his innings count.

    In other words, just because the Nationals failed to have a plan with Strasburg, I don’t think the Reds will fail to plan.

  20. @TC: I don’t think the Reds have mishandled Chapman. They’ve been looking for pitching help for a decade to build both a strong rotation and a bullpen. Chapman has locked down the closer while other guys have made a strong rotation. That opening that Chapman needs to fill in the rotation has vanished as he established himself in a different role.

    If he’s not successful with starting he can move back to the closer role? MUCH easier said than done. If he gets pounded and dumped from the rotation for ineffectiveness he’ll have lost much of his credibility. He won’t get enough innings out of the bullpen to bring down an inflated ERA. Yes, veteran hitters will be more familiar with all the pitches he throws, quality hitters will become tougher outs as they face Chapman more.

    Former Reds closer also made a foolish conversion to the rotation – it resulted in the end of his career rather than short term experiment. That was done by a perennial losing team that was desperate to fill out it’s rotation, a completely different situation from Chapman’s.

    The Reds learned something from the ‘Strasburg fiasco’ and will do something different so he’ll pitch the postseason? Huh? The Nationals made it clear that they stood by their decision and I’ve seen no indication that the Reds wouldn’t make the same decision. The Reds have always stood by their decision to shut down the rookie Mike Leake early, and they’d do the same for Chapman.

    Your option – plan on 6 starting pitchers? Like a 5+ man rotation? Bringing Leake up from the minors once or twice a month for one day each (taking starts away from Chapman and eliminating Leake’s trade value at the same time)? The argument about Chapman being wasted in the bullpen is only expanded by sending him to AAA Louisville. Instead of getting saves and quality innings out of their investment the Reds would get NOTHING. In the playoff run dump Chapman from the rotation at the All Star break and move forward with whichever other starter is available? Yikes. That’s a sign of not taking the season seriously.

    Mike Leake. Stephen Strasburg. Neftali Feliz. Danny Graves. Francisco Cordero/Jonathan Broxton. Starting prospects like Tony Cingrani and Daniel Corcino. Where are the Reds expecting to finish (first or last place?). What’s in the Reds’ future? What do the Reds need (rotation or closing help?). Lots of things, examples, and precedents to factor in.

  21. Should Strasburg have been kept in the bullpen last year? Or forever? Does the fact that they didn’t mean the Nats didn’t take last season seriously?

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