2012 Post-season / 2012 Reds / Game Thread

NLDS Game Five Thread: Cincinnati Reds vs. San Francisco Giants

The Reds are going to win today. I believe.

Mat Latos is pitching today. He’s a stud, right? He’ll be great today, right? Right?

The Reds are going to win today. I believe.

The Reds won 97 games this year, the second-best record in the major leagues. They’re good, right? Right?

The Reds are going to win today. I believe.

Friends, neighbors, and fellow Reds fans: sometimes it’s hard to believe. I know everyone is bummed over the last two games. You have every right to be down. But don’t give up, I implore you. This is still a good team, with a good pitcher on the mound, and there is every reason to believe that they are favored to win today’s game. Just think about how great it’s going to feel when the Reds win today’s Game Five and advance to the National League Championship Series.

(No, don’t think about how soul-crushing a loss would be. Get that thought out of your head right now.)

The Reds are going to win today. I believe.

Discuss the game here. Go Redlegs.

520 thoughts on “NLDS Game Five Thread: Cincinnati Reds vs. San Francisco Giants

  1. Go Nats… Go O’s…

    Congrats to the Giants. I will root for them all the way unless they play the O’s in the WS.

    As for the Reds, they gave us a very good season and the screaming of some fans won’t change that fact. This was a team that I really enjoyed watching play and that is built to compete for a few years to come. If I have the means, I’ll have my rear in my seat for several games next year too.

  2. Three turning points in the series: Phillips getting thrown out at 3B in Game 3. Dusty playing for game 5 during game 4. And Dusty leaving Latos in after he was clearly melting down mentally.

  3. Just called 1-800-GOT-JUNK. I asked them to pick up Dusty, Rolen, Stubbs, Cairo, Valdez, Arredondo, Ondrusek, and Jacoby.

  4. We out-hit them today, but sometimes the hits don’t come at the right times. Great year, though. A Bailey no-hitter, a memorable game one of the NLDS, a Cy Young-caliber year from Cueto, and 97 wins. There is a ton of reason to be optimistic for next year, with Bailey and Cueto really coming into there own.

    Thanks to the editors for all their hard work. You guys are appreciated!!!!

  5. This was a fun team to watch in the regular season, it was painful to watch such a special season end with a whimper like it did today.

    Such a great year does not guarantee a successful year in 2013 though(see 2010 to 2011 Reds, 2011 to 2012 Phillies, Brewers, and Red Sox). It was fun while it lasted, I just hope the 2013 team is as fun to watch as this years team and doesn’t turn into a frustrating season (like 2011). Reds have a couple small flaws to address in the offseason but no need for an overhaul and rebuild type of roster moves.

  6. Jimnastic, I like your list! Thanks, Reds, for a great year. We need a better bench and less fear of going with the young guys.

  7. Epic failure. This has to go down as the greatest collapse in Reds history.

    It is sad that this is what 2012 will be remembered for.

    And as has been said since 1991…there is always next year.

  8. they have got get a better leadoff hitter, and Drew Stubbs has to go. END OF CONVERSATION!!!!!

    • they have got get a better leadoff hitter, and Drew Stubbs has to go. END OF CONVERSATION!!!!!

      Stubbs, Rolen and Dusty.

  9. If the Reds want to win next year, they have to improve this team, they can not stand pat like 2 yrs ago.

  10. @Larry1980: I really don’t think they will stand pat. The front-office is tasting it. They gave strong contracts to Votto and BP and I think they will make some moves this offseason. I’d be really shocked if the Reds didn’t end up with a new CF. I’ve defended Stubbs a long time but he isn’t the answer on a championship caliber team.

    • @Larry1980: I really don’t think they will stand pat.

      But who can they get? The free agent list is not that great once you get past the top 3-4 guys, who will get $20M plus. It’s not as thin as the Jayson Werth class, but it’s not great. There might be the opportunity to improve the bench (I know, how could they not no matter who they sign), but in terms of real upgrades over Stubbs, they’d have to make a trade or shell out decent money. Or Josh Hamilton will have had to have loved Cincinnati so much he’d come back here for next to nothing.

    • @Larry1980: I really don’t think they will stand pat. The front-office is tasting it. They gave strong contracts to Votto and BP and I think they will make some moves this offseason. I’d be really shocked if the Reds didn’t end up with a new CF. I’ve defended Stubbs a long time but he isn’t the answer on a championship caliber team.

      Agree. Say what you want about BP’s contract, but that dude has driven this team. He has done everything through all of the various injuries and has excelled each time. Glad we locked him up, to be honest. And I also agree with the CF thing, we have to get a better hitting CF in our lineup. Priority #1 IMO.

  11. I truly thought Jay was gonna do it. I was picturing the 2010 clinch and imagining that I was gonna get to scream my head off and jump around. I’m gonna hold on to that feeling and try to just remember that they were really close instead of thinking about all the problems I had with that game and the 2 games before it. It’s easy to forget but it was a thoroughly engaging and entertaining season all the way through, and that doesn’t happen all that often. This was a missed opportunity because there is no dominant (or even particularly hot) team in baseball this year so someone can steal a WS win. However, I hope the guys learn from the experience and get hungry because I think we’re gonna see them in the playoffs again soon.

    • @jbemis44:

      I truly thought Jay was gonna do it. I was picturing the 2010 clinch and imagining that I was gonna get to scream my head off and jump around. I’m gonna hold on to that feeling and try to just remember that they were really close instead of thinking about all the problems I had with that game and the 2 games before it. It’s easy to forget but it was a thoroughly engaging and entertaining season all the way through, and that doesn’t happen all that often. This was a missed opportunity because there is no dominant (or even particularly hot) team in baseball this year so someone can steal a WS win. However, I hope the guys learn from the experience and get hungry because I think we’re gonna see them in the playoffs again soon.

      I was right there with you. I was SURE that Cousin Brucie was going to pull it off. Great AB. Great season. Think I’ll go back to drinking now.

  12. I will be interested to see if Billy Hamilton makes this club in the spring. They seem worried about his hitting, but would he really be any worse overall than Willy PatterStubbs the past four years?

    • I will be interested to see if Billy Hamilton makes this club in the spring. They seem worried about his hitting, but would he really be any worse overall than Willy PatterStubbs the past four years?

      Depends on if Dusty is still the manager. He’ll want a veteran/proven player even if they’re a lesser player. It’s why Rolen started 4/5 games over Frazier.. also why Stubbs is in over Heisey.. and Cairo was the first PH off the bench in Game 3.

      It’s not like you can tell me Leake or Arredondo did a better job than Cingrani could have. Or Cairo did better than Hamilton could have as a PH. But they’re not the proven veterans who have been on the team. So no chance with Dusty around.

  13. I will hopefully remember this season as the first step towards a World Series. For now I will just wait for my roommate to come in here and look at me blankly staring into my Votto jersey while sad pop songs play over some blown out speakers.

  14. Phillips made a stupid play in Game 3, but they don’t win Game 1 without him. He fights and he competes, which is more than some in the lineup do. Besides, other than Robinson Cano, who could they get who could produce value like Phillips does? And would Cano get the same pitches to hit if he played for the Mets without A-Rod and Texiera around him? I doubt it.

  15. Ok fine I’ll talk about next season. Are they losing anyone major other than Broxton? With Frazier playing 3rd, I think they’re looking pretty good for next year. I agree about Stubbs, but if he stays at the bottom of the order I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave him another shot for at least a couple of months. If Homer is really starting to come along the way it has looked like he is, then the rotation should be good again. Hopefully Aroldis will be in there too and Leake out. I think that’s a pretty good place to start from next year

  16. I think we should all be thankful that the players at least had the opportunity to win game 5. That’s a plus.

  17. Great season. Very disappointing End for our Reds. All i want to say is that the Giants for what ever reason, have the mental side of game down pat.

  18. i wish dusty had brought in broxton to face posey with the bases full. am i crazy? super high leverage situation, plenty more arms for late innings.
    i know broxton can be shakey, but i like him better than lecure there (and a faltering latos).
    ugh. trying to just think about the good times.

  19. I’m going to say one more thing I’m thankful for……that Wilson Valdez didn’t come up with the bases loaded and 2 outs (which could have happened.) Or maybe I’m looking for ways this day could have been worse.

    • Mat Latos has to grow up a little and not let one or 2 bad calls unnerve him.

      The strike zone seemed to abruptly change in that inning with pitches getting called as Balls that had been Strikes all game for both him and Cain. He seemed to be getting more frustrated as the inning went on, and after the fielding error. I don’t think his control changed, the strike zone just shrank – just watch.

  20. I still am asking why even pitch to Posey? Walk his butt, you don’t let the other teams best player beat you. I also have to ask why was Matt still pitching at that point. Dusty doesn’t grasp you manage differently in the post season compared to the regular season and he has never figured that out…

  21. Dusty Baker is the Marty Schotenhimer of MLB. Good enough to win in the Regular season, not good enough when it counts.

  22. Question: Had Dusty been the Reds’ Manager in 1975, would he have balked at moving Rose to third, opting instead to keep John Vukovich playing because “we got to get him going, big time” and saying George Foster “will get his chance?”

  23. Dusty Baker is the scapegoat who fans like to blame for their most successful season in over a decade. Not many other cities want managers fired for their team not getting far enough into the playoffs.

    Bobby Valentine showed what a new manager can do for a team and a city, and how little player respect matters. He’s available, the Reds could consider hiring him – after all, players like Dusty and dislike Valentine. Pull the ol’ switcharoo. It’s perfect! He’s a white guy who knows how to press blame on others, what could be better than that? Or they could hire a rookie manager so fans can argue that that guy also doesn’t know how to manage a team in the postseason, just like Dusty Baker.

    • Dusty Baker is the scapegoat who fans like to blame for their most successful season in over a decade.

      Technically, it was the most successful season since 2010, when they won the division and got bounced in the NLDS, just like this year. I think with the expectations to get to the next level – which, in reality, they did not – Something needs to be looked at. Clearly, they’ve gone as far as they can with the personnel they have, both on the field and in the dugout. It’s a given there need to be some offensive additions. The problem is, you can’t just go and add a bunch of guys who can hit .285 and have a .400 OBP to shore up the middle of the order. There will be holes, because there isn’t enough talent to go around. That’s where a manager comes in – to make moves to put his team in a better position to win a game. I doubt you’ll find anyone who will say he did that past Game 1. yes, the players are at fault. But clearly Baker didn’t maximize his chances with the moves he made, and if he can’t do that, they have to wonder if they’ve gone as far with him as they will go. Art Howe didn’t want to buy into the front-office philosophy of the A’s in the early 2000s, so they let him go after a 100-win season. I wonder if that might be the necessary move for Jocketty and Castellini. Dusty did a good job all in all, but he has limitations, and he’s reached them.

  24. It hurts too much to laugh; and, I am not quite old enough to get away with crying like a kid again.

    I will try to remember all this team accomplished against the odds.

    The closer was lost the week before opening day. The presumptive RH set up man also didn’t throw a single pitch in MLB competition. Add to that the fact the presumptive LOOGY never really threw a serious MLB pitch. Yet, this was one of the best pens in baseball.

    The starting pitching depth was depleted by the bullpen situation (Chapman; maybe LeCure lost as potential starters) and the 5 remaining starterss went out and made at least 30 starts each with 4 of them logging at least 200 innings.. It wasn’t till the ace went down 8 pitches into the playoffs that the bill came due.

    The best hitter in baseball went down for 40+ games; and the response of the team was to put together a run the likes of which had not been seen in Cincy for 30+ years.

    Those are the things I want to remember about this wonderful year which unfortunately ended too soon when the odds finally caught up with the guys.

  25. The Washington Nationals were lucky to have advanced notice that Stephen Strasburg would be unavailable for the playoffs. The Reds on the other hand, what a gloomy way to begin a postseason with Cueto. Strange that people are more critical of Dusty’s postseason managing than Davey Johnson’s.

    • The Washington Nationals were lucky to have advanced notice that Stephen Strasburg would be unavailable for the playoffs.The Reds on the other hand, what a gloomy way to begin a postseason with Cueto.Strange that people are more critical of Dusty’s postseason managing than Davey Johnson’s.

      Maybe b/c Davey Johnson’s Nationals just forced a Game 5. Where Dusty Baker’s Reds let Bruce Bochy’s Giants force, and then win a Game 5. I’d be surprised if Dusty himself chose to return next year. I’m sure the front office will offer it to him, (injuries, health issues, etc. = free pass for 2012 outcome). But I think he’ll ride off into the sunset with Rolen and the like.

  26. Jason Werth just yanked one over the fence. The Nats beat the WLB’s to force a game 5.

    You take solace where you can find it.

  27. This was the hardest loss of my lifetime. In 2010, the Phillies were a better team than the Reds. Period. So the losses were easier to take. In this series, the Reds were the better team, I believe. The offenses were probably a wash, and the Reds had better pitching all around than the Giants. The Reds are incapable of winning a playoff game at home, for whatever reason. I am not as anti-Dusty as most on this thread, because I believe that ultimately it comes down to the players. For next year, I think Rolen needs to become this year’s Miguel Cairo. Todd Frazier should be given the chance to play at 3rd everyday. Other than that, I think our lineup is still pretty good with a healthy normal Joey Votto.

  28. I cant blame Dusty for the Ryan Hanigan double play strikeout in the 6th, he needed to swing at that pitch and protect the runners.

    • I cant blame Dusty for the Ryan Hanigan double play strikeout in the 6th, he needed to swing at that pitch and protect the runners.

      Hanigan didn’t really have the greatest of series all around. He certainly deserves a share of the credit for Arroyo’s and Bailey’s efforts. But he “hit” into two double plays today and had that critical passed ball which was basically just a lapse of concentration (i.e. “it moved more than I was expecting”). The TBS broadcasters noted today that he seemed pushed to keep up with the high hard stuff of both Broxton and Chapman.

  29. Another thing I will note with sadness is that we probably saw the end of what deservedly will one day be a HOF career for Scott Rolen.

    For me it was not even that he K’d but how it happened which struck home. He looked at two very hittable pitches and seemed to be playing to draw a walk much as he was when he got called out on strikes to end the first inning of game three. This was not the Scott Rolen that earned him his career reputation.

    And in the field I’m not so sure it was the 10th inning error I will remember as the ball which bounced by him for the second single at the start of that 10th inning. The ball didn’t seem to be struck that hard; and it certainly looked like a younger, quicker Rolen, a Rolen who could and would and did often fully extend himself and make diving plays, would have flagged that ball down and gotten a force at 2nd. But he did not seem to have that capability Tuesday night.

    Time waits for no one.

    • Another thing I will note with sadness is that we probably saw the end of what deservedly will one day be a HOF career for Scott Rolen. For me it was not even that he K’d but how it happened which struck home. He looked at two very hittable pitches and seemed to be playing to draw a walk much as he was when he got called out on strikes to end the first inning of game three. This was not the Scott Rolen that earned him his career reputation.And in the field I’m not so sure it was the 10th inning error I will remember as the ball which bounced by him for the second single at the start of that 10th inning. The ball didn’t seem to be struck that hard; and it certainly looked like a younger, quicker Rolen, a Rolen who could and would and did often fully extend himself and make diving plays, would have flagged that ball down and gotten a force at 2nd. But he did not seem to have that capability Tuesday night.Time waits for no one.

      Two great 3rd basemen of the past 20 years ended their careers with playoff losses and roles in those losses by errors in the field…

  30. That was indeed a tough way to gou out. But regardless, that was one heck of a season to watch. Ignoring all of the small gripes that I had over the course of the year I am still happy with how things went, for the most part. I disagreed with several decisions that Dusty and the Reds made the last few days but I am over it (for the most part) and look forward to next season.

  31. The local Dusty defenders are already out in force. After following the game at work, I was looking forward to listening to a little talk radio venting therapy on the drive home. I don’t really hear any callers ripping Dusty, but Tracy Jones is defending Dusty to the hilt. I was amused to learn that the reason I think Dusty is a poor manager and want him replaced is the color of his skin and not because I believe he repeatedly makes the types of questionable decisions that kill you in a short series. That was just what I needed to pick me up after being kicked in the gut the last three days.

  32. Dusty will have options,he is wanted back by everyone except a small vocal minority of fans.The teams plays hard for him,we will be LUCKY if HE decides to come back.Walt needs to get him a few more bats,with the good young talent we have the future looks bright.

  33. The loss of Cueto,and Joeys bum knee were huge factors……..the RBI guys did not get the job done,not for lack of effort some epic AB’s for Bruce and Ludwick late in game #5 but it wasnt meant to be.The biggest managerial mistake was not walking 8th hitter in game 3 to set up force and bring pitcher(or last bench player ) up to bat.I wonder if ANYONE suggested it after the passed ball…..Bench coaches?? …other than that the players were put in positions to succeed,they just didnt get the job done…

  34. @Sam Jackson: I couldn’t agree more. He has a track record of not having a clue when it matters most, and despite the Latos move in game 1, he showed time and again he can’t manage when the game is on the line. Schottenheimer is a perfect comparison.

  35. @Sam Jackson: he put players in position to succeed……..they left 11en on base…….2 for 13 with RISP………We need another bat or 2…this team is still young and getting better ……you saying that they “clearly” have gone as far as they can is based on what??? I think they can and will get better…..Dusty will have options,teams will call his agent,it will be his choice to return or move on….

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