2012 Post-season

Reds medical staff strikes again

From the Cincinnati Enquirer:

The Reds have announced that Johnny Cueto’s “back spasms” are now a “strained oblique”…

“It’s odd,” head trainer Paul Lessard said.

Lessard could not put a timetable on when Cueto might be able to pitch.

“We’re still throwing a the kitchen sink at him (as far as treatment),” Lessard said.

Cueto hasn’t had an MRI yet.

“We’re debating that,” Lessard said.

The consistent ineptitude of the Cincinnati Reds medical staff is astounding. I’m not a doctor, and I don’t play one on television, but I couldn’t do a worse job than these guys do…jeez.

If the front office doesn’t make wholesale changes to this team’s medical staff in the off season, they’re crazy.

24 thoughts on “Reds medical staff strikes again

  1. I’ve been critical of the medical staff in the past, but in this case it seems like spasms and/or oblique can be easy to confuse if the symptoms are similar. It’s not like the Madson, Masset or Votto injuries where they sent the guys back out there to play while they were already hurt. Still, I’d replace them anyway because of their history dating back to 2001.

    • I’ve been critical of the medical staff in the past, but in this case it seems like spasms and/or oblique can be easy to confuse if the symptoms are similar.It’s not like the Madson, Masset or Votto injuries where they sent the guys back out there to play while they were already hurt.Still, I’d replace them anyway because of their history dating back to 2001.

      This is something where they shut the guy down and immediately began treatment without surgery being an option. Back spasms, strained oblique, whatever it is there isn’t any surgery to be done, I don’t know what you guys expected the medical staff to do about it.

      The medical staff’s history dating back to 2001? MLB players get injured on every team, every year. It’s not just the Reds players and it’s not necessarily because of bad training or treatment. Some guys, like Ken Griffey Jr and Bill Bray, are just prone to injury. The team doctor has a good reputation and the head trainer was invited to the All Star Game – neither is in danger of losing their job.

      • @redsfanman:

        This is something where they shut the guy down and immediately began treatment without surgery being an option.Back spasms, strained oblique, whatever it is there isn’t any surgery to be done, I don’t know what you guys expected the medical staff to do about it.

        The medical staff’s history dating back to 2001?MLB players get injured on every team, every year.It’s not just the Reds players and it’s not necessarily because of bad training or treatment.Some guys, like Ken Griffey Jr and Bill Bray, are just prone to injury.The team doctor has a good reputation and the head trainer was invited to the All Star Game – neither is in danger of losing their job.

        Nobody said the medical staff is causing injuries. The concern is the handling of the injury or diagnosis after it occurs. If you know your past 12 years, there’s not much to argue here.

  2. Sorry but I wouldn’t take my worse enemy to those “medical” folk for any reason. Either they are clueless or the Reds brass are keeping something secret.

    To me if we don’t win today and are looking at a game 4 then you have to suck it up, DL Cueto and activate Leake and he goes game 4 adn then if needed you go with Latos rested in game 5. You have no other choice.

  3. You admit that you have no medical background but you know better than the Reds medical staff? Interesting. I’ll bet Bill Lack would’ve had Johnny Cueto patched up and ready to go already if he had his way.

    If the front office fires the medical staff because a pitcher got injured… yikes. If they make ‘wholesale changes’ to the medical staff related to Cueto’s situation they’re pretty desperate to find somebody to blame. Bryan Price is the pitching coach, Johnny Cueto is a pitcher, maybe you can blame Price – after all Cueto supposedly injured himself while warming up. Witch hunts are great, right?

    • You admit that you have no medical background but you know better than the Reds medical staff?Interesting.I’ll bet Bill Lack would’ve had Johnny Cueto patched up and ready to go already if he had his way.

      If the front office fires the medical staff because a pitcher got injured… yikes.If they make ‘wholesale changes’ to the medical staff related to Cueto’s situation they’re pretty desperate to find somebody to blame.Bryan Price is the pitching coach, Johnny Cueto is a pitcher, maybe you can blame Price – after all Cueto supposedly injured himself while warming up.Witch hunts are great, right?

      +1

    • If the front office fires the medical staff because a pitcher got injured… yikes.

      That is so not the point Bill is making. It’s not the fact Cueto is injured he’s contesting, it’s the handling and assessment of it. Maybe they need to just change their p.r. staff, because I think it’s not unfair for Reds fans to be tired of being told one thing only for it to morph into something else. If they didn’t want to disclose medical information, which would be their right, then just say “no comment.” And of course medical issues can change over time, but the way they portray themselves to the public, they open themselves up to criticism. If nothing else, they present themselves as having a casual attitude toward injuries that have a disturbing trend of worsening. This goes beyond Cueto or even just Votto.

    • You admit that you have no medical background but you know better than the Reds medical staff?Interesting.I’ll bet Bill Lack would’ve had Johnny Cueto patched up and ready to go already if he had his way.

      If the front office fires the medical staff because a pitcher got injured… yikes.If they make ‘wholesale changes’ to the medical staff related to Cueto’s situation they’re pretty desperate to find somebody to blame.Bryan Price is the pitching coach, Johnny Cueto is a pitcher, maybe you can blame Price – after all Cueto supposedly injured himself while warming up.Witch hunts are great, right?

      They should fire them b/c they continually misdiagnose or under treat injuries…see Votto and now Cueto.

  4. I think the assumption made here is that an MRI would show an oblique strain. Would it? (I have no idea.) If so, it is really lame that the Reds haven’t already done this as it not only affects Cueto’s immediate future but the PS roster and the rotation – and the other individuals/preparation that it impacts.

  5. A little different from sleeping on an unfamiliar mattress, eh? Why debate the MRI? Afraid insurance won’t pick up the cost? I’m certainly not a medical professional, but I would think running all my multi-million dollar investments through an extensive battery of tests would be a matter of routine with every single mysterious ailment. I’d pack an MRI machine in a suitcase.

    • A little different from sleeping on an unfamiliar mattress, eh? Why debate the MRI? Afraid insurance won’t pick up the cost? I’m certainly not a medical professional, but I would think running all my multi-million dollar investments through an extensive battery of tests would be a matter of routine with every single mysterious ailment. I’d pack an MRI machine in a suitcase.

      @preach: This.

    • A little different from sleeping on an unfamiliar mattress, eh? Why debate the MRI? Afraid insurance won’t pick up the cost? I’m certainly not a medical professional, but I would think running all my multi-million dollar investments through an extensive battery of tests would be a matter of routine with every single mysterious ailment. I’d pack an MRI machine in a suitcase.

      Absolutely.. you have you ace of the staff with a back injury, the very first thing I do is get him an MRI and an X-Ray. You’re talking a multi-million dollar investment for your WELL over $100 Million company. I would preventative exam out the ass. Worst case, you lost a small amount of money proving your guy is healthy.. best case? You catch something and are able to prevent it from getting worse.

      Ridiculous medical staff.

  6. While its very frustrating to have guys sit on the bench for a week then go on the DL or the Votto and Rolen and so many others situations. I think a lot of it has to do with the teams communication. If this is indeed a strained Oblique then they probably new or suspected it was that night. Just now they start to hint that its something more. Its SOP around Reds camp this season and the past few. I’ll be very surprised if we see Cueto again this season. :(
    That being said. The Reds just continue to roll on.

  7. Didn’t both Stubbs and Cozart have “oblique” strains? Weren’t they both out around 2+ weeks? If it is an oblique strain you gotta think Cueto is out for at least a week plus, so you have no choice but to DL him…

  8. Any reason why they would want to wait to announce the injury was more serious? Hard to believe the medical staff actually thought it was back spasms for more than a couple of minutes. I’m have no medical knowledge whatsoever, but I knew it was more serious while he was still on the mound.

  9. What I don’t understand is how there could possibly be any debate about whether to do an MRI. I don’t think they’re worried about a co-pay, so why wouldn’t they just do it? Friday night?

  10. I am a medical professional, though I have little to no experience with sports injuries like this, especially in adults. I do, however, have experience in using MRI as a diagnostic tool. What I can say is that if the medical staff felt that the current treatment/plan would be the same, whether back spasm or oblique strain (rest, ice/heat, time), then there would be little reason to do an MRI. Current medical literature in general recommends against overuse of MRIs, and almost always recommends against it as a first tool for diagnosis. Cueto was going to take a couple days off no matter what. So, if the staff felt that if they waited a couple days that the plan of treatment for those days would be the same, medical guidelines would be to not do an MRI. In other words, they asked themselves, if we do an MRI on Saturday vs a couple days later, would anything be different? Apparently, they think not.

  11. @dn4192: I agree. I hope they don’t go with Latos on short rest if there’s a game 4. Latos’ Game 1 outing was on short rest. Latos pitching on full rest if Game 5 is needed is the Reds trump card. Go with Mike Leake on game 4.

    My only significant complaint about the NLDS/NLCS roster was not having Mike Leake on it. If he were already on the roster, he could start without dropping Cueto from the NLCS roster. But then again it sounds like Cueto won’t be ready to pitch for a while anyway.

  12. I’m not going to point fingers at anyone. I just know that when a Reds player is diagnosed as having a “minor ” injury and is “day to day”, until I see him on the filed, I assume it could mean month to month. This happens with other teams too, but does it happen as often ?

    • Cueto feels pain in his side or back which they’re treating and an MRI isn’t going to cure it or get him back any faster. I know an MRI is a fancy gizmo but it’s not like a fancy medical device you see in Star Trek that cures everything.

      I am a medical professional, though I have little to no experience with sports injuries like this, especially in adults.I do, however, have experience in using MRI as a diagnostic tool.What I can say is that if the medical staff felt that the current treatment/plan would be the same, whether back spasm or oblique strain (rest, ice/heat, time), then there would be little reason to do an MRI. Current medical literature in general recommends against overuse of MRIs, and almost always recommends against it as a first tool for diagnosis.Cueto was going to take a couple days off no matter what.So, if the staff felt that if they waited a couple days that the plan of treatment for those days would be the same, medical guidelines would be to not do an MRI.In other words, they asked themselves, if we do an MRI on Saturday vs a couple days later, would anything be different?Apparently, they think not.

      Well said, important points. The Reds are treating the pain Cueto has been feeling in hopes of getting him ready to pitch again but there is some crazy assumption that an MRI is somehow going to make him feel better faster.

      I’m not going to point fingers at anyone. I just know that when a Reds player is diagnosed as having a “minor ” injury and is “day to day”, until I see him on the filed, I assume it could mean month to month. This happens with other teams too, but does it happen as often ?

      Silly thing, injuries, some are more obvious than others (bone sticking through skin, elbow going ‘pop’), some are treated differently, some take longer to heal than others. Sometimes the extent of an injury isn’t apparent until swelling goes down or time passes to determine that there has been no improvement. Injuries happen everywhere. I’ve seen Brian Wilson standing around a bunch of times in this series. Check out the Cardinals and A’s posteason rotations if you wonder if other contending teams face medical problems.

      As fans are we reviewing a patient/player’s medical records? No, we’re listening to messages passed to us through a variety of sources inside and outside of the organization. Their expert diagnosis a few years ago was an ‘inner ear infection’ to get people to quit bugging Joey Votto. I think that diagnosis summarizes the outlook of the medical staff – they know they can handle medical issues themselves without help from fans (especially ones who start off with “I’m not a doctor…”), and their only goal is to end speculation – offer something, anything that will shut people up.

  13. All in all, this is pretty good. I am surprised Cueto didn’t pitch 5 more innings tomorrow and injure himself more and miss a year.

  14. I haven’t posted much in a while, maybe once or twice since Votto got hurt, but I’ll give my two cents on the situation. At the time of the injury, and even through the first couple of days, back spasms and an oblique strain can present very similarly. When they first evaluated it, it very well could have presented like back spasms, so they treated it as such. When he hadn’t responded as well to treatment as they thought, they probably reevaluated and determined it was a little worse than they thought, especially since it is in an odd location for a pitcher. Remember, this is only day 3 since the injury. Its not like they sat on it for two weeks like Votto. Hopefully we can sweep tonight, St. Louis and WSH go to 5 games and we can save him for like game 3 of the NLCS.

  15. @pinson343:
    As i understand the rule, and please correct me if I am wrong, if we do that Cueto is out for the NLCS. If it is “just” a strain, that seems drastic.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s