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The Atlanta Braves and St. Louis Cardinals get together for some hot wild card action tonight. The winner of this one-game playoff faces the Washington Nationals in the National League Division Series.
Over the last few days, I’ve enjoyed saying that the Reds made the playoffs, while the Cardinals only made the playoff. Let’s hope their season ends tonight.
Use this thread to discuss the wild card games tonight, or whatever else you wanna talk about.
I’ll leave a comment: GO BRAVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m rooting for the Braves to beat the Cardinals, and then beat the Nationals, so then we’ll play them. We have a good record this year against the Braves, unlike against the Nationals and Cardinals, who I believe we have a losing record against this year.
No kidding, and that would get us the home field advantage for the LCS. That truly would be the best-case scenario.
wow, nice catch, eh?
Wow, that “time out second chance” is the kind of luck that went the Cardinal’s way last year. Baseball gods evening things out?
yeah, and not bad for a guy who only got the start for his defense!
If the Reds don’t win it… I certainly hope the Braves do. Would be great to see Chipper go out on top considering he’s the player that got me into baseball in the first place.
whoa, bring ‘em down, Chipper
If the Reds don’t win it, I don’t care who does as long as it’s not the Cards. (Or the Yankees, gross)
Also, I could justify cheering for Atlanta since I’m living in GA right now, so go Braves I guess.
the No. 8 guy bunting in that spot? unreal.
Well that was a game-changing call. It was the right call, but it seems like the Cardinals get all the breaks.
Why were you bunting with the eight hitter anyway?
Well, both teams have suffered a call that either took or added two runs. It’s even.
@rfay00: manager supposedly already said it was a safety squeeze but the runner didn’t try to score. not sure i buy that, maybe the manager already trying to protect the kid. either way, i can’t help but wonder whether those “technical difficulties” that meant no interview with the braves manager weren’t actually a case of the manager being too hot and ticked off to go on the air!
Getting brutal now. “Best defensive team” now has 2 errors, one huge. Hope this one doesn’t haunt them as well.
Everybody getting in on the act, just setting up a WLB bullpen blow-up. Man it is fun rooting against them, makes this game interesting. Any word on Giants going with 3 or 4 starters
Anybody find it odd Lohse was removed? Not looking for a non-WLB playoff, I am in GA as well Abel rooting for a collapse.
MAN, I wish we could get that .220 BA, expert defensive player Dan Uggla… you think we could trade Phillips for him straight up? Uggla IS a All-Star Starter after all.
This is giving me nightmare flashbacks. I seem to remember another strong defensive team committing some errors.
It’s o.k., they’ll get ‘em in the next game. What, wait . . .?
Rough way to go out for Chipper if this is his last game.
Ugh, the Braves IF defense falling apart. Uggla of course is always a defensive liability, but I expected better from others.
Sheesh. What a meltdown.
I’ve been thinking for the past few weeks about how the extra wild card is really a raw deal for the first wild card winner and now I definitely feel that way. The Braves were 6 games better then the Cardinals over the course of the season but don’t get to even play in a real playoff series because of a one game crap shoot. Of course if the Braves just play defense they’re probably winning this game so really it’s still their own fault.
This doesn’t bother me because as you said it’s the errors that are killing them, not the situation. If they weren’t throwing the ball around like sandlot players this game is still 2-1 or 2-2.
Agreed. I understand why MLB did what it did; the money they’re making on tonight is probably bonazas full of hoorays; but this one game playoff annoys me for the exact reason you said. The Braves have been one of the most solid defensive teams all year… because they’re having an off-game, that’s it. The very reason baseball uses series instead of single game playoffs is so that the “best” team wins; it’s meant to average out the flukes… and this wild-card game flies in the face of that.
Don’t like having to play in the WC game, win your division…
@dn4192:
I get that; but I liked that the wild card used to reward a team for being good all season and just being behind a division leader. It meant that when the two best teams in a league were in the same division, the both made it to the playoffs. This seems to punish a team for being in the same division as another great team. I don’t know I’m probably just complaining because I don’t like them changing my game. I also think I’d be less uppity if it wasn’t a single game series.
Zach – The wild card teams are still rewarded under the new system. But, and this is the key, they are rewarded less than the division winners. I absolutely love this new system. Whoever decides the start times of the playoff games should be beaten repeatedly with a bat and they should give the job to the smart guy who came up with this new wild card system.
@Mwv: That’s very true but all I can think about is how pissed I would be if it was the Reds in this situation where we played great ball all year but get knocked out because of one game. But like people have said all year it makes winning the division all that much more important so on that front I guess I’m OK with it.
Yeah that’s why it meant something to win the Central. I’m okay with that. Braves just playing scared in the infield though, lots of bobbled balls causing those terrible throws. Cards have speed and bats and it’s paying off. I still think the Nats will chop them up like firewood though.
Anyone else wanna see the Rangers get sent home tonight?
Nice bit of hitting there.
there’s a break, now time for Chipper to make amends
that died quickly
Big opportunity for Chipper there, wasted.
Still a chance against the Cards bullpen.
@Zach: I agree. Would prefer a 2 out of 3 format, the first two at the home of the team with the better record.
Uggla’s just awful out there. Remember the All Star game where he entered the game in the 9th or 10th inning and made 3 errors ? And Chipper isn’t looking much better out there.
I swore I would never turn to alcohol to solve my problems but this game is really convincing me it’s a sound decision.
1st in fielding, better starting pitcher, even hitting against the Cards and the Braves are playing like Barves.
I don’t know what a Barve is. Do I want to?
Both teams are playing so nervous.
David Ross having a great game though, always nice to see a former Red get it done.
Put up McCann !
OMG !
Holy cow. This is one of the worst defensive games I’ve ever seen in the playoffs.
What????? Infield fly rule??? Are you serious?
wow, what a game-changing call, and in infield fly called by an outfield ump?
IF fly rule, you’ve got to be kidding ! Take your players off the field !
That was no IF fly ! Chief umpire should reverse the call.
@pinson343: one ump wouldn’t embarrass another that way
I simply cannot believe what I just saw. That is the biggest blown call I’ve seen in a long time.
And a late call, to boot ! The extra OF ump has screwed up this game.
@vegastypo: In this situation, he should. The OF ump is going to be hearing from Braves fan for a long time.
@Mwv: another don denkinger (sp?) moment here? or maybe jim joyce? that ump has to be praying for a Braves comeback now
@pinson343: i don’t disagree at all. i wish they would’ve quickly gone into a conference and we’d be back playing again.
ron darling is suggesting that the braves play the game under protest? on a judgment call? good luck with that.
Wow, the If fly was called AFTER the Cardinal SS had pulled away from the ball.
I just am stunned. If this had happened to the Reds I cannot imagine how it would feel. Absolute insanity.
@Mwv: My stomach is uneasy and I’m obviously not a Braves fan!
@Mwv: dusty would just swish the toothpick from one side of his mouth to the other, i’m sure. (OK, that was snarky. sorry)… but for this to happen in a postseason game is unreal, especially when you have an extra two umps to make things more clear. … I really hate that the fans are doing this, but i can surely understand the frustration.
….there is going to be a bottom line that the braves have nobody to blame but themselves for being in this situation, but dang, MAKE THE RIGHT CALL
Wasn’t someone in here saying something about the Cardinals being lucky and getting all the calls in the post season….?
@vegastypo: But there are two parameters for the IF fly: that it be called early, and that the IFer be camped under the ball. Neither held. They can protest that the rule was misapplied. They are protesting, they should.
Well. I am happy this is not happening tomorrow. Beyond that I don’t even know how to react. This game is going to be remembered for a while.
And the WLBs are going to squeak through…horrible
Watch the video, use common sense.
When Allen Craig consistently drives in 2 runs in the first three innings, is it possible that somebody might consider doing something different when he comes to the plate?
@pinson343: I understand, thanks for clarifying. But when would MLB deal with a protest? After the game, one team is one the way to D.C. They ought to be dealing with the “protest” right now.
Wasn’t the Rangers/O’s game supposed to start soon? Is this delay going to impact that?
Best case scenario here Brian McCann plays long ball and people can forget what happened.
c’mon McCann!!!
You’ve got to have instant replay in the postseason.
That will probably be the biggest impact of this game.
@RedsAk19: Unless the Braves lose by one in regulation..
The Atlanta fans should not be doing what they are doing and to be absolutely clear it is potentially dangerous and wrong, but for some dictionary definitions of excuse…
Obviously the runners had no clue because they were going halfway. If there had been a quick call, they would have just stayed on their bases
It was a blown call, there’s really no disputing it.
Man oh man, the drama. I still can’t believe it.
awful, just awful
Through all this, though, the Cardinals might be the luckiest stinkin team in baseball
Yeah, they certainly aren’t a good team.
A team that wins 88 games is good. They aren’t as good as the Reds over 2012, but I would be concerned having to play them.
I really hope that the Nats beat them—they do have the advantage that Lohse can only go once—but my money’s on the Cardinals.
With the bases loaded and one out, the Cards would have had to pitch to McCann.
@Mwv: That, and MLB is gonna have to have a procedure in place to deal with these things immediately. Even if they deal with it tonight or tomorrow, the Cardinals are already in DC by then, and that next series needs to start on schedule for TV. That’s why, even a winning protest will just get an acknowledgment that a bad call was made. Big consolation that would be.
You’ve got that right. Video clearly shows the IF fly call was made too late, but what does that matter now ? You can’t uphold the protest and replay the end of the game, that would be even worse than the blown call.
No, there is no such thing as “too late”. I mean, he shouldn’t have done it that late, but the ump can call an infield fly whenever he wants during the play. The rule in part:
When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare “Infield Fly” for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare “Infield Fly, if Fair.”
So, it became “apparent” to Sam Holbrook when the ball was about 15 feet from the ground. Lame, but legit under the rules.
Let’s not forget that the Braves also threw this game in the dugout three different times.
The sad thing is that Chipper is going out in a game like this.
The Atlanta Screw Job.
@CI3J: funny, but since Chipper made probably the biggest error of the game, I can’t feel too bad for him per se. But geez, the Braves’ fans have to be inconsolable right about now …
@vegastypo: I wouldn’t be so upset about that if it wasn’t the WLBs. I really think their arrogant fans are insufferable anyhow. This just makes it worse.
Ump gave him that just because it was Chipper.
HA! Larry was out. Let’s go Braves, complete the comeback! If Descalso doesn’t have to showboat and jump/throw it’s game over.
@SirRibShack: sure looked out to me, but kinda late now for a make-up call. wonder if that was just a gift for Chipper …
Well. Nats vs Cards. Let’s hope the Harpers aren’t as nervous as the Braves were.
What is tougher to take for Braves fans. There collapse last year or this loss
If I were a Braves fan, I’d be more upset by this than last season, by far.
I guess it just depends on how you prefer your agony: one demoralizing loss at a time for about two weeks, or having just about everything go wrong in one big game…
i’ll be interested to see whether that umpire will do like most do and never discuss the call, or whether he’ll at least take the Jim Joyce approach and acknowledge that he missed it.
I will never root for another team more in my life than I will for the Nationals over the next week, unless the unspeakable happens and these bloody birds get any further.
Well, now to root for the O’s. I love October.
did he just say, they won the game “pending the outcome of the protest?” … Are you trying to tell me they would make the guys put away the bubbly and go back out on the field? … OK, make ‘em stay overnight and replay the game Saturday from the point of the call?? That’d work for me, just don’t think it’ll happen, even if they acknowledge the call was as ridiculous as it appears.
Freaking Cardinals.
Where was Sam Wyche when you needed him to get the crowd under control in Atlanta?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJMa20xXykI
one of you noted previously, but I just saw it again, the shortstop was already starting his retreat to the infield when the umpire finally began to raise his arm. Unbelievable. Go Nats!
@vegastypo: I’m the one who noted that, and it’s not even close. Kozma pulled away from the ball before the ump raised his arm. No way that MLB will rule in favor of the protest, but wonder just what they’ll say.
They will say, and in fact they already said, that it’s a judgment call. Which it is. Very bad judgment, but still judgment.
When they asked Holliday about the play after the game, he didn’t even mention hearing/seeing the umpire make the call. But I’m wondering whether the umpire said something before he actually raised his hand, and Cozmo heard the umpire and assumed it was Holliday calling for the ball. I guess we’ll never know.
@vegastypo: Holiday did say that he thought Cozmo backed off because he heard his (Holiday’s) steps.
Rumor is MLB denied the protest.
@pinson343: thanks for that. that’s probably what happened then, i suspect they talked about it between innings. would still be very interested to hear what the shortstop himself has to say about it. (not to mention MLB’s wording as it denies the protest that it obviously logistically couldn’t uphold even if it wanted to). thanks for the insights, quite a game, sad though it was!
I hate them SO Much
Jenifer Langosch @LangoschMLB: #STLCards break out with “Infield Fly” chant during postgame celebration.
Atlanta has a 20-year history of gagging on post-season somewhere along the way. Tonight’s choke job just adds another layer of paint to that. Except for 1995, these guys have almost nothing to show for Octobers.
@Johnu1: yeah, wherever he is, I suspect Brooks Conrad just flinched as you were typing that …
A postseason protest has to be adjudicated during the game, I believe, because of logistical reasons. In a 1-game wildcard playoff, you really need to do that. That’s why the ump was on the phone with Joe Torre (I think it was Torre, anyways).
Molina said “they played to lose, and we played to win”. What a jerk.
I really am glad for my blood pressure that the Reds are not playing the Cards in the NLDS.
Man, were the Cardinals lucky in this game.
Instant replay couldn’t have done anything about the infield fly call. Once that call is made, it cannot be undone. Once an ump calls infield fly, the runners now act differently. The fielders act differently. If there were instant replay expanded in baseball, it would not reverse infield fly calls.
(OK, I never should say never for any sports league, as they do really dumb things often.)
@Hank Aarons Teammate: Things like what Molina said is what makes me want to enact a constitutional amendment to ban the St. Louis Cardinals from existing.
Can we enact it with a 2/3 vote of this site?
Sorry but I like the attitude, sports have become so vanilla. Don’t like the comment…then beat them and him up that way…
Couple of thoughts…Cards not flying to DC, they have first two games in St.Louis, then games 3,4,5 in DC.
Second, Braves list the game due to not scoring, poor defense and bad base running, the IF call did not cost them the game. They still had chances to score and couldn’t.
Didn’t the braves try a sac/squezee bunt? Where is the outrage? I mean had Dusty given up an out like that people would have gone nutts here..
@Hank Aarons Teammate: The OF ump made the call too late for the base runners to react or even know what was going on: they were playing it half way instead of tagging up. Strictly speaking, they were supposed to tag up to advance at all on an IF fly. If the call was made properly (in time), they would not have been allowed to advance to 2nd and 3rd. They’re saying all this on mlbnetwork as I write. (The base runners being allowed to advance to 2nd and 3rd was the umpires’ decision.)
The IF fly signal was given when the OF ump raised his hand AFTER Kozma had moved away from the ball. The IF fly rule says that the umpire has to invoke it when the fielder is camped under the ball. He wasn’t. The rule was violated, so the OF ump’s late signal (judgment call or not) should have been ignored – that is, declared invalid by the chief of the crew.
The ironic thing is that the OF ump is only there for the postseason, to improve the calls.
Pinson: I see you later corrected the statement about runners not being allowed to advance.
However, I’m not trying to be rude here, but your post is mistaken in its entirety. Everything you are writing is simply not in the rulebook. You can find it online. This isn’t my opinion, it’s written in plain English in the MLB rule book.
The infield fly rule doesn’t say anything about a fielder being camped under the ball, though that’s the convention. It doesn’t say anything about when it can be called time-wise. No rule was violated here. It’s really not debatable whether a rule was violated. Any umpire can at any time call an infield fly, assuming 1st and 2nd are occupied. If the ball lands on the warning track, the umpire can call infield fly. Of course, he wouldn’t, but it is the umpire’s judgment. If he wants to call the infield fly rule when the ball is 1 foot above the ground, then he can. It’s bad, but it is not a violation of the rule—just poor judgment.
As an aside, Kozma was for a brief instant camped under the ball, and at that moment the LF ump called infield fly. It matters not that he then uncamped himself, i.e., ran away. Once the call is made, it’s made, and there’s no going back. The reason in my opinion that it was a poor call is that the intent of the rule is to disallow an easy double play. There’s no way that Kozma could have dropped the ball, thrown to 3rd, then thrown to 2nd, to get a double play, because he was under it at the last second, which I don’t consider ordinary effort. But, again, it’s a judgment call.
Anyway the Braves played really badly. Both teams were obviously nervous, on defense they were stiff and rushing things.
My hope for the Reds tomorrow is that they play loose and they don’t get screwed by an umpire.
@Hank Aarons Teammate: PS The replay clearly shows that the IF fly signal was made too late. If this were handled as it ought to be, once the game is protested, Joe Torre reviews the video and makes his own call on the timing of the ump’s judgment call.
@Hank Aarons Teammate: CORRECTION ! I’m wrong above about the tagging up part. The runner only needs to tag up if the ball is caught. Here’s that part of the rule:
If “infield fly” is called and the fly ball is caught, it is treated exactly as an ordinary fly ball; the batter is out, there is no force, and the runners must tag up in order to advance. On the other hand, if “infield fly” is called and the ball lands fair without being caught, the batter is still out, and there is no force, but the runners are not required to tag up and may advance at their own peril if they choose. In either case, the ball is live, and the runners may advance at the risk of being doubled-off if the ball is caught.
——————————
But the main point is about the call being made too late. Called too late should mean not called at all.
Braves lost because of poor hitting, base running errors and poor defense, bad calls happen all the time good teams don’t let that effect you.