2012 Post-season / 2012 Reds

The Playoff Roster

The Reds are taking 28 players to San Francisco:

So the Reds will take 28 players in all. Devin Mesoraco, Mike Leake, Logan Ondrusek, Miguel Cairo and Alfredo Simon are probably on the bubble.

Knowing that they’re playing the Giants doesn’t affect things greatly for the Reds.

“We haven’t had a chance to talk about it,”general manager Walt Jocketty said. “But, as far as the roster, it won’t be much different because of who we play.”

Nick Masset and Bill Bray will travel with the team as well.

Wait…what? Masset and Bray?

55 thoughts on “The Playoff Roster

    • When is the last time Devin Mesoraco even got into a game? He hasn’t made a start since August 20th.

      Even the rookies got into games more often in September than Mesoraco did.

      The idea that Mesoraco will be on the playoff roster strikes me as somewhere between exceptionally unlikely and impossible. If he is on it, then Baker has managed him extremely poorly the last month. You don’t sit a guy for the month of September (except for a pinch hit and extra inning appearance in the Pirates game, and a pinch hit appearance the day before that in the Houston game) and then put him on the playoff roster. Given how important Baker thinks staying sharp is, I’d say Mesoraco really has about zero chance to be on the playoff roster. Again, he has 3 ABs in the last 35 days. Baker is punishing him for something, is all I can figure.

      And, as I’ve said, if a game comes down to a key AB and Baker refuses to hit Navarro because he won’t hit his backup catcher, then Baker and Jocketty have failed in this instance.

      I really would not be surprised if Mesoraco is with another organization by March. I put it at 60% chance.

    • Mesoroco is not going anywhere, come on.He’s still a kid.Crazy statement.

      Yeah, a kid has never fallen out of favor before in the history of baseball. Crazy statement.

  1. Masset and Bray are traveling with the team because Walt is a loyal manager of people (as we all know). I think this is a GREAT move, and one that has an effect on the morale of an organization. This shows guys like Ryan Ludwick that if he accepts his option and then doesn’t perform (be it for injuries or otherwise), he won’t just be tossed on a scrap team or run out of town like some organizations will do…he’ll still be a part of this team. if something like this has an effect on him signing an option, it’s well worth it. Even if the benefits aren’t this tangible, I still think it’s strong management. Besides, it doesn’t cost anything (or nothing except for a rounding error for hotel rooms, food, etc).

    FWIW, I can only hope that this is what’s happening with Cairo too (that these guys are being rewarded for their years of fine service to the organization by being made to feel as if they’re still part of this team, just not an on the field part) as we sure don’t want him actually stepping between the lines of the field at any point in these playoffs. But it still makes sense to bring him (and Bray and Masset) along for the ride.

  2. The real story is this statement:

    “We haven’t had a chance to talk about it,”general manager Walt Jocketty said.

    WHAT?!?!?!??!

  3. Playoffs start in 2 days for the Reds. Let’s not argue about the current 3rd string catcher please. :-)

  4. @Hank Aarons Teammate: Huh? The Reds have been chasing the top seed for the playoffs and Hanigan has played head and shoulders over Mesoraco all year. That’s why Mesoraco has been on the bench. I don’t know how you’re inventing any issues with Mesoraco other than that.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: Huh? The Reds have been chasing the top seed for the playoffs and Hanigan has played head and shoulders over Mesoraco all year. That’s why Mesoraco has been on the bench. I don’t know how you’re inventing any issues with Mesoraco other than that.

      I have no idea what you are talking about, honestly. I never mentioned Hanigan once. The issue is that after playing on the big squad all year, in August he lost his job to a guy that’s basically a scrub at this point in his career.

      This is with the most loyal manager you are going to find.

      To think that there isn’t some kind of issue with Mesoraco I think is off base. This isn’t a criticism of Baker or Jocketty, maybe there’s something going on. I’m simply observing that with Baker, players do not very often go from playing to not playing, especially when as the backup catcher Mesoraco didn’t really do anything “wrong”. He played good defense and struggled with the bat. By all accounts here he’s a significantly better defensive catcher than Navarro. So what happened?

      • To think that there isn’t some kind of issue with Mesoraco I think is off base. This isn’t a criticism of Baker or Jocketty, maybe there’s something going on. I’m simply observing that with Baker, players do not very often go from playing to not playing, especially when as the backup catcher Mesoraco didn’t really do anything “wrong”. He played good defense and struggled with the bat. By all accounts here he’s a significantly better defensive catcher than Navarro. So what happened?

        Mesoraco is in Dusty’s doghouse. It stems from Mesoraco’s umpire bumping and suspension. Supposedly it made the team have to make a roster move when one wasn’t needed. It created a bit of consternation with Baker. I too agree with Hank, that there is a very good chance that Mesoraco will not be with the Reds in 2013. There are other catchers in the organization coming up through the ranks. Stick a fork in Mesoraco, he is done as a Red.

        • Mesoraco is in Dusty’s doghouse. It stems from Mesoraco’s umpire bumping and suspension. Supposedly it made the team have to make a roster move when one wasn’t needed. It created a bit of consternation with Baker. I too agree with Hank, that there is a very good chance that Mesoraco will not be with the Reds in 2013. There are other catchers in the organization coming up through the ranks. Stick a fork in Mesoraco, he is done as a Red.

          Yea..nothing worse then a player showing a little fire and heart..something our manager never has shown.

      • I have no idea what you are talking about, honestly. I never mentioned Hanigan once. The issue is that after playing on the big squad all year, in August he lost his job to a guy that’s basically a scrub at this point in his career.This is with the most loyal manager you are going to find. To think that there isn’t some kind of issue with Mesoraco I think is off base. This isn’t a criticism of Baker or Jocketty, maybe there’s something going on. I’m simply observing that with Baker, players do not very often go from playing to not playing, especially when as the backup catcher Mesoraco didn’t really do anything “wrong”. He played good defense and struggled with the bat. By all accounts here he’s a significantly better defensive catcher than Navarro. So what happened?

        @Hank Aarons Teammate: I’m not sure what happened but how Dusty has used Mesoraco hasn’t been the same since he got in the altercation with the umpire. That also coincided with Mesoraco’s concussion. It could have something to do with one of those items. I could also be way off base. The only people that likely know are Dusty, Walt, and maybe Mesoraco and maybe the medical staff.

        As for him getting traded, I’d find that unlikley. He’s a first-rounder who they’ve spent a lot of money and time on. I don’t think the organization has given up on him.

        • @Hank Aarons Teammate: I’m not sure what happened but how Dusty has used Mesoraco hasn’t been the same since he got in the altercation with the umpire. That also coincided with Mesoraco’s concussion. It could have something to do with one of those items. I could also be way off base. The only people that likely know are Dusty, Walt, and maybe Mesoraco and maybe the medical staff.
          As for him getting traded, I’d find that unlikley. He’s a first-rounder who they’ve spent a lot of money and time on. I don’t think the organization has given up on him.

          From what I have heard, the Reds were putting some video together to help in Mesoraco’s appeal. Dusty was quoted as saying such. That didn’t happen, though. A compromise was worked out and Mesoraco got a 2 game suspension instaed of 3 games. And apparently some words were exchanged and tempers flared a bit. I guess Mesoraco felt let down by the team. Mesoraco was placed on the 7 day DL and then shipped out to Louisville after serving his suspension. Then at Louisville, Mesoraco displayed his displeasure at being sent down and might have said some things he didn’t mean. And that quickly got back to the Reds management. And Dusty. Thus, Mesoraco’s banishment to the Juan Francisco Doghouse.

  5. @Jared: I do believe that Mes has a future in Cincy. But the Reds brass decided to go with Navarro in September and the post season, which is why Mes has not played. I want to see Mes on the post season roster anyway. With Hanigan/Navarro a valuable bat on the bench, three catchers would help.

    • I do believe that Mes has a future in Cincy. But the Reds brass decided to go with Navarro in September and the post season, which is why Mes has not played. I want to see Mes on the post season roster anyway. With Hanigan/Navarro a valuable bat on the bench, three catchers would help.

      Right on the point, Pinson. It’s a very well taken point to think that Mes will not be on the roster based on how they used him. He should have had some of Navarro’s at bats, not some of Hannigan’s, and he didn’t.

      I don’t agree they’ll trade him (Mes) in the offseason. They spent the bullet of Grandal with Mes in mind, I’d hedge that they’ll be a little more patient. But trading him and his postseason play are two different issues. If he is on the playoff roster, the kid is going to be facing A level pitching in pressure with essentially a spring training eye. Not a good call.

    • @Jared: I do believe that Mes has a future in Cincy. But the Reds brass decided to go with Navarro in September and the post season, which is why Mes has not played. I want to see Mes on the post season roster anyway. With Hanigan/Navarro a valuable bat on the bench, three catchers would help.

      You must believe that Mesoraco is off the roster. Again, Baker keeps his guys sharp by playing them—witness the complaints here when regular player X gets a day off and Cairo goes in.

      When he does not keep a guy sharp, you have to believe that guy isn’t going to be on the bench.

      • You must believe that Mesoraco is off the roster.

        When he does not keep a guy sharp, you have to believe that guy isn’t going to be on the bench.

        Hank’s teammate: I agree. I said it would be nice to have the 3rd catcher in the postseason, but it’s not happening.

        • You must believe that Mesoraco is off the roster.Again, Baker keeps his guys sharp by playing them— When he does not keep a guy sharp, you have to believe that guy isn’t going to be on the bench.

          Hank’s teammate: I agree. I said it would be nice to have the 3rd catcher in the postseason, but it’s not happening.

          I assume Devin Mesoraco has been keeping his catching abilities sharp by working in the bullpen. His hitting is probably extra rusty but I don’t think he’s being considered a likely candidate to bat in the postseason – instead he’s a defensive specialist/contingency plan. It would be nice to be able to use Navarro as a pinch hitter and I think the Reds will find a way by giving Mesoraco a roster spot.

  6. @per14: Stole the words right out of my mouth. Haven’t had time to talk about it!?!?! Well Walt hate to break it to you but I think you might want to make some time to discuss this small little issue. Playoffs start this weekend.

    • I also like that they brought Bray and Masset along – they’re under team control for next year and shouldn’t be thrown under the bus for not pitching.

      I think Ondrusek, Leake, and Jose Arredondo are the top remaining candidates to be left off the postseason roster, and I’m surprised Arredondo hasn’t been mentioned much.

      Devin Mesoraco, I definitely expect he’ll make the postseason roster but he’s unlikely to play, instead he’d be reserved for use in an emergency or as a contingency plan to catch games; they’ll be relying on Hanigan and Navarro to hit. Xavier Paul and Dioner Navarro seem to be in a similar situation – they’re coming along as a pinch hitter rather than an outfielder or catcher, respectively.

      @per14: Stole the words right out of my mouth.Haven’t had time to talk about it!?!?! Well Walt hate to break it to you but I think you might want to make some time to discuss this small little issue.Playoffs start this weekend.

      @pinson343: Then just say “we haven’t made a decision yet” or “we’re still discussing some of those issues”

      What that quote from Jocketty says to me is that the Reds figured out who they would be playing in the postseason in the late afternoon, a few hours before their final game with the Cardinals. They decided in advanced to send some guys home (Villreal, Redmond) and others away to Arizona (Cingrani, Didi, Phipps, so on) – no surprises – before meeting and making a final plan during their free time in San Francisco. They had a plane flight to San Francisco and two full days to make a final decision. The tough part for them isn’t naming the 25 man roster, it’s breaking the news to the final guys left off. Breaking the news immediately to the media might be appealing to the fans (oh boy, they know just what they’re doing!) but it won’t necessarily be received well by the 25 remaining players (that was rude, so and so deserved a face-to-face meeting with Dusty rather than reading in the newspaper that he’d been cut).

  7. This whole backup catcher business is only a problem because Todd Frazier isn’t ready to show the world his crazy catcher-to-first-base pickoff move. Yeah, first base. Can that guy play backstop or what?

    • This whole backup catcher business is only a problem because Todd Frazier isn’t ready to show the world his crazy catcher-to-first-base pickoff move. Yeah, first base.Can that guy play backstop or what?

      RichmondRed: Love it.

  8. The Reds play at 9:30 PM on Saturday.

    Baker/Spier have managed the Reds in September in a way that Mesoraco can’t be on the roster. They have boxed Walt in. I’m fine with Navarro being the second catcher, but I’d love to see him be able to pinch hit ahead of Cairo, Valdez and maybe Paul. We know Baker won’t use his second catcher that way. Mesoraco in place of Cairo would improve the bench considerably.

    I agree that it was really strange how little playing time Mesoraco got, even compared to some of the other call-ups. Strange way to treat a player who had been with the team for five months, playing 40% of the games.

  9. @Hank Aarons Teammate: Mes is giving up 78 points in batting average to Navarro (which is why most managers would be playing Navarro over Mes). Navarro is also a vet (which is why Dusty probably does it). I think the handling of Mes has made more sense than just about anything else Dusty has ever done. Get him significant playing en route to a division title.

    I definitely think he should be travelling with the team. Sure would look stupid to have three catchers with as many starts as they’ve all got, then see one get hurt and play the rest of the post-season with just one.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: Mes is giving up 78 points in batting average to Navarro (which is why most managers would be playing Navarro over Mes). Navarro is also a vet (which is why Dusty probably does it). I think the handling of Mes has made more sense than just about anything else Dusty has ever done. Get him significant playing en route to a division title.

      I definitely think he should be travelling with the team. Sure would look stupid to have three catchers with as many starts as they’ve all got, then see one get hurt and play the rest of the post-season with just one.

      You’re saying that basically they planned to get Mesoraco time this year, but basically had also planned for Navarro to take over near the end of the season (maybe if Mesoraco struggled)? I suppose that’s possible, I hadn’t thought of it. It seems a bit unlikely to me, but you never know.

      That certainly is a different spin on it. Interesting.

  10. I think his entire discussion is almost pointless … what does it matter if we can not score any runs with our regular lineup ? Be more concerned about that than anything else ? I certainly am .. No one on this team has hit a lick for the last 3 plus weeks except Xavier Paul and the injured Ludwick off the bench .. We have a REAL issue here

  11. @redsfanman: If Mesoraco were to be on the roster, what’s the reason he wasn’t given any time the last 3 weeks? It just wouldn’t make sense. If they needed ABs for Navarro, he could have been stuck at 1B very occasionally or even in the OF, it’s not like the games mattered the last couple weeks. I just cannot imagine having a catcher that might have to go play in an emergency who has caught 2 or 3 innings in the last 5 weeks, and had 3 at bats. That would be very un-Dusty-like.

  12. The discussion of 3 players (Valdez, Cairo, and Mesoraco) for 2 bench spots assumes that the Reds carry a 7-pitcher bullpen. All 3 make it if they go with 6 relievers.

    Chapman, Broxton, Marshall are the givens.
    Hoover, LeCure, Arredondo, Ondrusek, Simon are the other options.

    For sake of arugment, let’s say Hoover, LeCure, & Arredondo are on the roster. Do you need Ondrusek or Mesoraco as the 25th player on the roster? (Mesoraco’s only role on the roster, being emergency catcher, allowing Baker to use Navarro as PHer.)

  13. With the 2-3 structure this year, Game 1 is the key to the series. Given Dusty’s lack of understanding of “whom” we are playing and his dedication to a fault with players, Johnny Cueto is going to have to pitch lights out for us to win and with how he has pitched over the past month, I don’t see that happening.

    I think facing the Giants in a 5 game series and Latos only pitching in 1 of those games is the biggest mistake Dusty has made as the manager of the Reds. You have to go with your hot pitcher who also just happens to pitch extremely well against these Giants. I am sad to say that due to the format and Dusty’s choice of pitching rotation I see the Giants taking this in 4 games. :roll:

  14. I don’t believe one incident, even if it peeved the organization as much as some here are guessing (and we have no proof that this is the case), would sour the team on their #1 prospect. Hell, they’ve put up with a lot more for a lot longer from worse prospects. I tend to believe it’s more about Navarro exceeding the team’s expectations upon his promotion.

    That being said, I do agree that at this point, it would surprise me of Devin was on the post season roster, though I think it makes the bench stronger b/c they can use Navarro as a PH. I’m afraid they’ll keep Cairo, which makes zero sense in terms of helping the team or strengthening the bench. Valdez is a given, IMO.

  15. @Greg Dafler: I’m pretty sure that the Reds will take a 7 man pen. Taking less would change up how Dusty has to manage the pen. They’ll only take 4 starters, which makes room for one extra bench guy, but that’s all.

    The guy I’m really pulling for is Mike Leake. He had a rough September, but his peripheral numbers are still just as good as Ondrusek and the other bubble pitchers. Plus, he contributed way more to the Reds being where they are than Cairo or Valdez, just by eating up all those innings. He deserves to be there in the postseason.

    I’d like to see a pen of Chapman, Broxton, Marshall, Hoover, Arredondo, LeCure, and Leake. Leake gives them a good option if any games go to extra innings too.

    • Something else about Bill Bray coming along, something that still quietly makes him significant is that he’s the team’s representative to the MLB Players Union. He’s not just some irrelevant fringe player who they can send home with nobody noticing. I don’t know how much that factors in, but it’s something to consider, in some ways he’s more important than he gets credit for.

      @redsfanman: If Mesoraco were to be on the roster, what’s the reason he wasn’t given any time the last 3 weeks?It just wouldn’t make sense.If they needed ABs for Navarro, he could have been stuck at 1B very occasionally or even in the OF, it’s not like the games mattered the last couple weeks.I just cannot imagine having a catcher that might have to go play in an emergency who has caught 2 or 3 innings in the last 5 weeks, and had 3 at bats.That would be very un-Dusty-like.

      Reds value pitching and defense, even at 1b and OF (has Navarro ever played either spot before?), and having a left handed pinch hitter off the bench, which Navarro, albeit a switch hitter, offers. They wanted to keep Navarro’s bat ready, and did.

      Mesoraco hasn’t been playing but I assume he’s still been working on his catching in the meantime, albeit in the bullpen. He’s probably not ready to hit but I expect he’s ready to catch when called on.

      With the 2-3 structure this year, Game 1 is the key to the series.Given Dusty’s lack of understanding of “whom” we are playing and his dedication to a fault with players, Johnny Cueto is going to have to pitch lights out for us to win and with how he has pitched over the past month, I don’t see that happening.

      I think facing the Giants in a 5 game series and Latos only pitching in 1 of those games is the biggest mistake Dusty has made as the manager of the Reds.You have to go with your hot pitcher who also just happens to pitch extremely well against these Giants.I am sad to say that due to the format and Dusty’s choice of pitching rotation I see the Giants taking this in 4 games.

      I think the Reds finally, for the first time in over a decade, have a starting pitcher deserving of serious consideration for the Cy Young Award (Aaron Harang got some votes but who actually thought he deserved it?) and I think he earned the #1 spot. If Dusty’s biggest mistake is choosing the ace, Johnny Cueto, over the second best pitcher, sobeit.

      Mesoraco is in Dusty’s doghouse. It stems from Mesoraco’s umpire bumping and suspension.Supposedly it made the team have to make a roster move when one wasn’t needed. It created a bit of consternation with Baker. I too agree with Hank, that there is a very good chance that Mesoraco will not be with the Reds in 2013.There are other catchers in the organization coming up through the ranks. Stick a fork in Mesoraco, he is done as a Red.

      Other catchers in the organization? There’s Tucker Barnhart, who struggled offensively in AA and they’re certainly not ready to promote him. Other than that there’s Corky Miller, who they overlooked because he doesn’t hit well. Mesoraco hasn’t hit well but he has a lot of upside and his trade value is at an all time low – he’s not going anywhere.

      @Greg Dafler: I’m pretty sure that the Reds will take a 7 man pen.Taking less would change up how Dusty has to manage the pen.They’ll only take 4 starters, which makes room for one extra bench guy, but that’s all.

      The guy I’m really pulling for is Mike Leake.He had a rough September, but his peripheral numbers are still just as good as Ondrusek and the other bubble pitchers. Plus, he contributed way more to the Reds being where they are than Cairo or Valdez, just by eating up all those innings. He deserves to be there in the postseason.

      I’d like to see a pen of Chapman, Broxton, Marshall, Hoover, Arredondo, LeCure, and Leake. Leake gives them a good option if any games go to extra innings too.

      I think the Reds will take 6 relievers – Chapman, Broxton, Marshall, Hoover, LeCure, and Simon… leaving out Leake, Ondrusek, and Arredondo. I don’t think that will change how the Reds use the bullpen – Leake hasn’t worked out of the bullpen and the Reds don’t have reason to trust Ondrusek or Arredondo anymore in a close game. The 2012 Reds pitching staff hasn’t had much use for mopup-men and long relievers, possibly to Simon and LeCure’s dismay, but I doubt they’ll need to carry one (Leake) in the playoffs.

      Leake contributed a lot in the regular season as a starting pitcher but his usefulness vanishes along with the need for a 5th starter.

      Can we have a contest to see who comes closes to picking the Reds post season roster?

      Great idea. I feel like the only person expecting Arredondo to miss out.

      • I think the Reds will take 6 relievers – Chapman, Broxton, Marshall, Hoover, LeCure, and Simon… leaving out Leake, Ondrusek, and Arredondo.

        I don’t think that will change how the Reds use the bullpen – Leake hasn’t worked out of the bullpen and the Reds don’t have reason to trust Ondrusek or Arredondo anymore in a close game. The 2012 Reds pitching staff hasn’t had much use for mopup-men and long relievers, possibly to Simon and LeCure’s dismay, but I doubt they’ll need to carry one (Leake) in the playoffs.

        Leake contributed a lot in the regular season as a starting pitcher but his usefulness vanishes along with the need for a 5th starter.

        First, there has been zero mention from the Reds of the team cutting a reliever on their roster, while there was plenty of discussion of the rotation.

        Second, Mike Leake arguably has better peripheral numbers than Ondrusek, Hoover, Arroyo, Arredondo, and Simon.

        Third, I do think that Leake would have a role in the team in the playoffs, because of the possibility of an extra-inning game.

      • Something else about Bill Bray coming along, something that still quietly makes him significant is that he’s the team’s representative to the MLB Players Union. He’s not just some irrelevant fringe player who they can send home with nobody noticing. I don’t know how much that factors in, but it’s something to consider, in some ways he’s more important than he gets credit for.Reds value pitching and defense, even at 1b and OF (has Navarro ever played either spot before?), and having a left handed pinch hitter off the bench, which Navarro, albeit a switch hitter, offers. They wanted to keep Navarro’s bat ready, and did.Mesoraco hasn’t been playing but I assume he’s still been working on his catching in the meantime, albeit in the bullpen. He’s probably not ready to hit but I expect he’s ready to catch when called on.I think the Reds finally, for the first time in over a decade, have a starting pitcher deserving of serious consideration for the Cy Young Award (Aaron Harang got some votes but who actually thought he deserved it?) and I think he earned the #1 spot. If Dusty’s biggest mistake is choosing the ace, Johnny Cueto, over the second best pitcher, sobeit.Other catchers in the organization? There’s Tucker Barnhart, who struggled offensively in AA and they’re certainly not ready to promote him. Other than that there’s Corky Miller, who they overlooked because he doesn’t hit well. Mesoraco hasn’t hit well but he has a lot of upside and his trade value is at an all time low – he’s not going anywhere.I think the Reds will take 6 relievers – Chapman, Broxton, Marshall, Hoover, LeCure, and Simon… leaving out Leake, Ondrusek, and Arredondo. I don’t think that will change how the Reds use the bullpen – Leake hasn’t worked out of the bullpen and the Reds don’t have reason to trust Ondrusek or Arredondo anymore in a close game. The 2012 Reds pitching staff hasn’t had much use for mopup-men and long relievers, possibly to Simon and LeCure’s dismay, but I doubt they’ll need to carry one (Leake) in the playoffs.Leake contributed a lot in the regular season as a starting pitcher but his usefulness vanishes along with the need for a 5th starter.Great idea. I feel like the only person expecting Arredondo to miss out.

        Cuteo’s numbers in the first to middle half of the season were better, but since August I don’t think you could say he has pitched better then Latos, and right now I want our best performing pitcher right now to have the key starts. Toss in Latos’s overall numbers lifetime vs. the Giants, to me it’s not even close and I feel could be the deciding factor in how this series turns out.

  16. @LWBlogger: I doubt the organization has given up on him, but I imagine that there will be a lot of callers this offseason inquiring about Mesoraco with a hope of buying low. In the case of “IF” he’s traded, a trade doesn’t necessarily mean that the Reds have “given up” on him if they end up getting something good in return.

    • @LWBlogger: I doubt the organization has given up on him, but I imagine that there will be a lot of callers this offseason inquiring about Mesoraco with a hope of buying low. In the case of “IF” he’s traded, a trade doesn’t necessarily mean that the Reds have “given up” on him if they end up getting something good in return.

      And that’s what I was trying to say. I could very easily see a deal of Mesoraco to a team for their equivalent of a 2009 version of Homer Bailey—a young guy considered a disappointment, but with potential.

      I certainly did not mean “trade Mesoraco for an A ball C+ level prospect”. I would prefer he stay a Red, but I’m just saying I think there’s a chance he could go. I have no inside info. I am just going by what I observe with Baker. Maybe Baker doesn’t think he’ll ever pan out? That’s what he thinks with Chris Heisey (as an everyday player), and while we may never know, and certainly won’t know until at least next year and probably later than that, I think he Baker well be right.

  17. I suspect that Meso is traveling with the team because, even in mid-series, teams are allowed to replace an injured player with a player but only at that same position. But the guy who got replaced must sit out the next series as well, I think. But if Navarro or Hanigan gets hurt mid-series, I think Meso at least gives them an option …

  18. @WVRedlegs: Interesting stuff. I hadn’t heard any of that. Mesoraco is a higher-rated prospect than Francisco but if he really is in the doghouse, then a trade wouldn’t be out of the question.

    @Greg Dafler: Good point about them moving him and getting something good in return.

  19. Mesoroco wasn’t hitting and when given the chance Navarro has hit pretty well. It’s as simple as that. It doesn’t mean that they are done with Mesoroco long term. Lot of conspiracy theorist on here.

  20. @redsfanman: First, in terms of Cueto vs Latos for who gets two starts given the 4 man rotation, I can’t see Baker making a wrong decision there. Cueto was better for the whole season, and Latos was better recently. Either decision is good.

    In terms of Navarro playing 1B for time, you didn’t read what I wrote—I said play him there when games don’t matter. I swear, you say “pitching and defense” reflexively as the answer to any question. The Reds did not care about pitching and defense after the division was well in hand—they did not play their best defensive guys every day then.

    I doubt they go with anything different than the regular season—a 7 man pen. I would be ok with a 6 man pen, but I can’t see it.

    You are always “sure” of everything. You’re “sure” Mesoraco won’t get traded. Would you give 100-1 odds and bet your house, then? Juan Francisco was to be Rolen’s caddy this year this past offseason, and he didn’t even last until April. You’re also “sure” Mesoraco is making the postseason roster. I can’t see it, but anything could happen.

  21. @LWBlogger:
    It just seemed that Francisco was always in Dusty’s doghouse. I felt that it should bear his name.

    @Hank Aarons Teammate:

    I cannot name names. But my “friend” works for a company in Cincinnati that does business with the Reds and Bengals. They sometimes come into some conversations and hear things. How accurate that is I don’t know. But they have not ever steered me wrong before.

    On another subject, as I was watching the pre-game telecast last night they had an interview with Dusty on. Since his return from his medical issue, does Baker look like he has aged 5 years or so in just the last couple of months?? He just didn’t look the same. He usually stands for interviews after the games, but was seated in this one. Maybe it was the camera angle looking down on him. Hope he is OK.

  22. Dusty’s bound to be kinda weak these days. I think they said he lost 20-some pounds during his hospital stay …

  23. I had made a pact with myself that I wasn’t going to spoil the playoffs by talking about off season and next year. But the temptation is too great.

    I think if they can sign Navarro (he is a free agent), the catching tandem for 2013 is Hanigan/ Navarro. Navarro is 3.5 years younger than Hanigan. That positions him well to be the backup or flip side of a tandem beyond Hanigan’s likely playing days.

    With Barnhart and other catching talent in the pipeline, strange as it seems, Meso’s window of opportunity with the Reds may have been this year, especially given the surprising reemergence of Navarro. Meso probably sticks with the team at least int the spring. Then depending what happens during ST, he could well be dumped like Francisco was this year or he could be shipped off to AAA.

    • Mesoroco wasn’t hitting and when given the chance Navarro has hit pretty well. It’s as simple as that. It doesn’t mean that they are done with Mesoroco long term.Lot of conspiracy theorist on here.

      I agree. I think Navarro is on the team more for the same reason as Xavier Paul, Willie Harris and Mike Costanzo – his position is pretty irrelevant, they wanted a lefthanded (or switch) hitter rather than a new catcher.

      @redsfanman: First, in terms of Cueto vs Latos for who gets two starts given the 4 man rotation, I can’t see Baker making a wrong decision there.Cueto was better for the whole season, and Latos was better recently.Either decision is good.

      In terms of Navarro playing 1B for time, you didn’t read what I wrote—I said play him there when games don’t matter.I swear, you say “pitching and defense” reflexively as the answer to any question.The Reds did not care about pitching and defense after the division was well in hand—they did not play their best defensive guys every day then.

      I doubt they go with anything different than the regular season—a 7 man pen.I would be ok with a 6 man pen, but I can’t see it.

      You are always “sure” of everything.You’re “sure” Mesoraco won’t get traded.Would you give 100-1 odds and bet your house, then?Juan Francisco was to be Rolen’s caddy this year this past offseason, and he didn’t even last until April.You’re also “sure” Mesoraco is making the postseason roster.I can’t see it, but anything could happen.

      Pitching and defense are this Reds team’s primary concerns and they clearly favor fielding (Stubbs) over hitting (Heisey). Gold Glover Rolen is starting over Frazier. It’s a goal or priority that continues to govern the Reds’ choices. Maybe it isn’t the ‘answer to any question’ but it usually decides the Reds’ choices… and it’s important to consider when making any predictions, whether you approve or not.

      Devin Mesoraco vs Juan Francisco, what’s the difference? One is a good defensive player at a tough position to fill with no apparent successor, the other is a horrible defensive liability blocking Todd Frazier. I predicted all offseason that Francisco would be traded because the Reds have moved on from Adam Dunn/Edwin Encarnacion/Juan Francisco-type players, and he was indeed traded. We all agree that Navarro will make the postseason roster but his primary value is as a pinch hitter.

      First, there has been zero mention from the Reds of the team cutting a reliever on their roster, while there was plenty of discussion of the rotation.

      Second, Mike Leake arguably has better peripheral numbers than Ondrusek, Hoover, Arroyo, Arredondo, and Simon.

      Third, I do think that Leake would have a role in the team in the playoffs, because of the possibility of an extra-inning game.

      Mike Leake has little to no experience out of the bullpen and, considering the strength of the Reds’ bullpen, I don’t think they’ll start mixing and matching with him in the postseason. As far as peripheral numbers related to other guys, you’ll notice that I’m not recommending bringing Arredondo or Ondrusek either.

      Alfredo Simon has had a great season but the one thing that kept him from doing well as a long reliever is an absence of opportunities – the Reds starters rarely got knocked out early. I have more faith in him to work long relief than I do Leake.

      I had made a pact with myself that I wasn’t going to spoil the playoffs by talking about off season and next year. But the temptation is too great.

      I think if they can sign Navarro (he is a free agent), the catching tandem for 2013 is Hanigan/ Navarro. Navarro is 3.5 years younger than Hanigan. That positions him well to be the backupor flip side of a tandem beyond Hanigan’s likely playing days.

      With Barnhart and other catching talent in the pipeline, strange as it seems, Meso’s window of opportunity with the Reds may have been this year, especially given the surprising reemergence of Navarro. Meso probably sticks with the team at least int the spring. Then depending what happens during ST, he could well be dumped like Francisco was this year or he could be shipped off to AAA.

      I definitely don’t expet Navarro to be back. Once again, the Reds prioritize pitching and defense and he’s by far worse defensively than Devin Mesoraco. They’d also have to pay him more than Mesoraco. Navarro is not a long term solution, he doesn’t fit with their priorities, their goals, and he can probably find a better opportunity elsewhere, where he isn’t blocked behind Hanigan. Some teams – maybe the Astros or Cubs – might be desperate for a starting catcher. I wish him well.

      Barnhart is in the pipeline but he’s at least a year away. He struggled offensively in his brief time at AA and is set to return there. I think Mesoraco’s window of opportunity extends several years longer. Even if Mesoraco starts 2013 in AAA it’ll be a long time before he is surpassed by Barnhart.

  24. The odd thing is that I thought the writers said (a while back) that Bray had been sent home for the season. I thought that was a little odd, but it makes the decision to bring him along even more strange.

  25. I am thinking that Mesoraco will be on the roster, Navarro will there as a LH pinch hitter and then they’ll need the back up C just in case.

    Also, I see them going with 1 less RP. Going with 1 less in a short series is not a problem. I think it will be Ondrusek that gets bumped, as he has been a bit inconsistant this year and you can’t afford that now.

    Lastly, Mesoraco isn’t going anywhere this off season. They do not have another prospect of much quality within 2 years of the majors. He was a top prospect, still is, and Hannigan and Navarro are certainly not considered young be any stretch.

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