2012 Reds / Titanic Struggle Recap

Titanic Struggle Recap: 97 Wins

Let’s recap tonight’s titanic struggle….

FINAL
Cincinnati 3
St. Louis 1

W: M. Latos (14-4)
L: C. Carpenter (0-2)
S: A. Chapman (38)
BOX SCORE

POSITIVES
–Scott Rolen was 2-4 with his 8th homer, a solo shot that tied the game in the fourth inning.

–Mat Latos allowed one run on four hits in five innings. The bullpen then proceeded to slam the door shut. Sam LeCure and Jonathan Broxton were good; Sean Marshall and Aroldis Chapman were great.

–Chapman looked like the Chapman we saw a couple of months ago. His fastball was in triple digits, and he just looked confident. It was beautiful.

–Dioner Navarro had two hits and an RBI.

NEGATIVES
–None.

NOT-SO-RANDOM THOUGHTS
–Nice win tonight; it was Cincinnati’s 97th victory of the campaign. When was the last time a Reds team won that many games? You guessed it, 1976. Wow.

–The Cardinals still need a Dodgers loss, or a win over the Reds tomorrow, to make it into the playoff(s). I wouldn’t mind seeing Cincinnati deny them that spot.

56 thoughts on “Titanic Struggle Recap: 97 Wins

  1. so if Dodgers lose, do you bring the A-team and go for homefield? Nationals look like they rested some.

    • so if Dodgers lose, do you bring the A-team and go for homefield? Nationals look like they rested some.

      Gio Gonzalez was scratched from his scheduled start tonite. As bad as tomorrow’s scheduled starter looked last time out I think EJax will make the start.

  2. Well, you have to beat the best to be the best, and the Reds are just as good away as home, so why not just go for home-field throughout the playoffs?

    But the Dodgers better win their next two because I want St. Louis to be sitting in October so badly.

    • Not sure how Chris Carpenter is going to explain that Rolen blast to his kid…

      I missed something, why is Carpenter hated more than your average WLB. I sense he did something

    • Not sure how Chris Carpenter is going to explain that Rolen blast to his kid…

      I knew that was coming. Great to see Scott hit one off his buddy.

  3. Carpenter on the Reds-Cardinals brawl: “Dusty had something to say, I had something to say, and the next thing you know all hell broke loose,” Carpenter said “I come home and try to explain to my son why is Scott Rolen attacking me? Why is everybody pushing you into the net?”

    Scott wasn’t attacking him and Cueto was being pushed against the net and trying to defend himself, but that did not stop Carpenter from coming down from his sacred, egocentric mountain to speak gospel of baseball to us ignorant, cocky Reds fans who support an ignorant, cocky, inexcusable Reds team.

    The gold mine can be found under search terms “Chris Carpenter explain to his son”

    Carpenter is one of the better guys in the game, but no one made any friends or heroes from the aftermath of that scrum, which included the personal favorite of Jason LaRue saying words and Yadier Molina being, well, Molina.

  4. @vicferrari: He’s done a whole lot of things. He has several times screamed obscenities at batters who homered off him, as they trotted around the bases. And I’m not talking about a guy who admired his HR. In one game on national tv, he twice barked at his own SS, Brendan Ryan, from the mound, for what he considered unforgivable sins. Ryan BTW is a brilliant defensive SS.

    But the main thing Reds fans remember was his role during and after the melee the Reds had with the Cardinals in August, 2010. I’ll let someone else go into that, but will get back to you if no one does.

  5. We definitely should go all out tomorrow for that #1 seeding. This irrational fear of playing the Cardinals again in the playoffs has got to stop. We are better than them. And if we need them, we want those 4 home games against the Nationals or Giants.

    • We definitely should go all out tomorrow for that #1 seeding.This irrational fear of playing the Cardinals again in the playoffs has got to stop.We are better than them.And if we need them, we want those 4 home games against the Nationals or Giants.

      It may be arguably wrong (but maybe not) to prefer the Braves or Giants over the Cards, but it’s not “irrational”. Using that term is fairly condescending.

      To base an analysis of a 5 game series on who’s better in the regular season is also off the mark. For example, the Giants will be much more formidable as a short series team than a regular season team, because they may be able to drop both of their starters (Zito and Lincecum) who are far worse than Mike Leake this year. There are plenty of other examples throughout the last 20 years; another example is the 1987 Twins, who had 2 great starters, 1 average starter, and two horrid starters. The two horrid guys pitched exactly zero out of 12 postseason games.

  6. @vicferrari: @RichmondRed: Just to add a bit to Richmond Red’s account. The brawl was apparently over with no harm done – no punches throw, no one hurt – when Carpenter yelled something at Dusty. Whatever it was, it was bad enough for his friend, Scott Rolen, to charge him and throw him to the ground.

    It’s still a mystery what Carpenter said. But he received a longer suspension than Scott, so it must have been something beyond ordinary cussing. And Dusty, who at the end of the day is a reasonable guy, expressed strong disappointment that Carpenter didn’t get a longer suspension.

    During the postgame interview that RR mentioned, Carpenter’s voice was soft, angelic, shocked.

  7. I just saw that the Nationals play at 1 tomorrow. We’ll know before the Reds even take the field whether they have a chance for the number 1 seed. When was the last time we were playing on the last day for the best record in baseball?

  8. The bullpen was fun to watch. With Chapman pitching, I was watching on tv and at the same time listening to Marty-Brantley. Brantley said after only a couple of pitches that Chapman had fixed his mechanical problem, something to do with his back leg.

  9. Sean Marshall has pitched brilliantly down the stretch. Hasn’t allowed an ER since August 26. Has he even allowed an inherited runner to score since then ?

    They haven’t been together long enough for a comparison, but I think Marshall-Broxton-Chapman could be called the Nastier Boys.
    LeCure has been outstanding too.

  10. It was nice to see Bruce hit the ball hard on his single, tomahawking a high fast ball. Navarro has been hitting well left handed: .311/.333/.400. His 2 HRs have been batting RHed in 19 ABs.

  11. @pinson343: Now I remember what pissed me off so much. Carpenter played himself a victim, angel, paragon of baseball when he was just as responsible as everyone suspended.

    Now I want the Dodgers to win the next two and the Reds to win tomorrow even more.

    • @pinson343: Now I remember what pissed me off so much. Carpenter played himself a victim, angel, paragon of baseball when he was just as responsible as everyone suspended.

      Now I want the Dodgers to win the next two and the Reds to win tomorrow even more.

      Richmond Red: Great ! Go Dodgers !

  12. The A’s have been an amazing surprise this year. It’s been a pleasure over the last two weeks to watch their mlbnetwrok live look-in hilites nite after nite.

    • Crap, Kemp. Could have tied it with a hit.

      Victorino would have had the idiot Mark Ellis not tried to stretch a double into a triple and been thrown out by about 30 feet.

  13. No one that I’ve seen commented (at least on this thread) that Dusty Baker said:

    “We’re not sure about that,” Baker said. “Generally, you only use three starters in the first round. . . That’s a pretty good ace in the hole if somebody gets hammered. You don’t let guys stick around and get hammered. It’s not like the regular season.”

    This was in response to the question “Is Bailey pitching game 4?”

    I cannot fathom how stupid it is to set up your rotation so that the guy who’s the best pitcher on your team right now AND the second best pitcher in your rotation this year is going to pitch game 3, while Bronson Arroyo is going to start game 2 and game 5. This, so that Homer Bailey is available for mop-up duty.

    I’d love anyone to argue why it’s a good idea to make Bronson Arroyo your #2 starter under these conditions. Even the Arroyo fan club.

    If you’re willing to go with 3 starters, it should be either Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Cueto, Latos, OR Latos, Cueto, Bailey, Latos, Cueto.

    • No one that I’ve seen commented (at least on this thread) that Dusty Baker said:

      “We’re not sure about that,” Baker said. “Generally, you only use three starters in the first round. . . That’s a pretty good ace in the hole if somebody gets hammered. You don’t let guys stick around and get hammered. It’s not like the regular season.”

      This was in response to the question “Is Bailey pitching game 4?”

      I cannot fathom how stupid it is to set up your rotation so that the guy who’s the best pitcher on your team right now AND the second best pitcher in your rotation this year is going to pitch game 3, while Bronson Arroyo is going to start game 2 and game 5.This, so that Homer Bailey is available for mop-up duty.

      I’d love anyone to argue why it’s a good idea to make Bronson Arroyo your #2 starter under these conditions.Even the Arroyo fan club.

      If you’re willing to go with 3 starters, it should be either Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Cueto, Latos, OR Latos, Cueto, Bailey, Latos, Cueto.

      I’ll take a stab at this, just like I did a few days ago since the rotation shook out exactly like I said it would.

      First of all, Arroyo gets the nod over Bailey because Arroyo has statistically been slightly better than Bailey this year and has shown he handles pressure situations better. So given that statistically they are very similar, shouldn’t you go with experience?

      Don’t let the no-hitter cloud your view of Bailey who, it should be noted, got blown up every bit as much as Bronson did, but there is no bias toward Bailey (e.g. There is no “Bad Bailey” cliche like there is for Bronson)

      Don’t believe me? Think about this: The number of starts this season Bronson has given up 4 or more runs? 11.

      How about Bailey? Why, it’s also 11.

      Second of all, Dusty’s logic for pitching Arroyo second as you well know is to break up pitching styles, the ol’ hard-soft-hard split. Regardless if you think that is necessary or effective, that’s the logic behind it.

      Arroyo is a very capable, experienced starter but he gets a bad rap on here because he’s not flashy and doesn’t get a lot of strikeouts. But he’s smart and he knows how to pitch. He’s a guy I trust starting in the playoffs probably more than any other starter we have as all have/have had reputations for getting too emotional on the mound. (Cueto, Latos, Bailey) Don’t overlook the human element of the game, something Dusty is very good at.

      I have no problem with the way the rotation is set up.

      • Don’t let the no-hitter cloud your view of Bailey who, it should be noted, got blown up every bit as much as Bronson did, but there is no bias toward Bailey (e.g. There is no “Bad Bailey” cliche like there is for Bronson)

        Right… there’s just the “Bailey sucks. Bailey is a head case that can’t handle pressure when things go wrong cliche.” Sheesh.

    • I’d love anyone to argue why it’s a good idea to make Bronson Arroyo your #2 starter under these conditions. Even the Arroyo fan club.

      If you’re willing to go with 3 starters, it should be either Cueto, Latos, Bailey, Cueto, Latos, OR Latos, Cueto, Bailey, Latos, Cueto.

      I trust Arroyo more than Bailey. I just don’t see how both aren’t necessary. Is Baker trying a little gamesmanship here, or is he not looking beyond the NLDS when his starters arms are in a blood heap on the clubhouse floor.

  14. @Hank Aarons Teammate: I don’t even understand Dusty’s statement. If only 3 guys start, then Cueto and Arroyo pitch with 3 days of rest. That can’t be right, can it ? I am a Bronson fan, but starting him twice in a 5 game series makes no sense.

    As far as the possible need for a long man goes, put Mike Leake on the roster.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate: I don’t even understand Dusty’s statement. If only 3 guys start, then Cueto and Arroyo pitch with 3 days of rest. That can’t be right, can it ? I am a Bronson fan, but starting him twice in a 5 game series makes no sense.

      As far as the possible need for a long man goes, put Mike Leake on the roster.

      The way this is being handled sets-up a lot of second guessing. I hope it works out, but to not even start Bailey so he can come into long relief and Cueto and Arroyo can pitch on short rest is just bizarre.

  15. PS I’m assuming above that the series goes 5 games. Even if it only goes 4, then only 3 starters would mean Cueto pitching with 3 days rest.

  16. The way the LDS is set up this year makes it nonsensical to go with a 3-man rotation. In doing so, you run both your Game 4 and Game 5 starters out there on three days rest. Is that really necessary?

    Look at it this way. In games 4 and 5, you can either have a fully-rested Bailey and a fully-rested Cueto, or you can have Cueto and Arroyo both on short rest. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

    What’s really sad is that part of Dusty’s reasoning is that “generally speaking, you only use three starters in the first round.” I wonder if he really has no idea that they took out the off-day between games 4 and 5.

    • The way the LDS is set up this year makes it nonsensical to go with a 3-man rotation. In doing so, you run both your Game 4 and Game 5 starters out there on three days rest. Is that really necessary?

      Look at it this way. In games 4 and 5, you can either have a fully-rested Bailey and a fully-rested Cueto, or you can have Cueto and Arroyo both on short rest.Seems like a no-brainer to me.

      What’s really sad is that part of Dusty’s reasoning is that “generally speaking, you only use three starters in the first round.” I wonder if he really has no idea that they took out the off-day between games 4 and 5.

      There will be an off day between 2 and 3 right? But it still is a dumb decision, but eventhough it is obvious Bailey should start on the road, it would be equally dumb to start him in the one park where his ERA doubles when you had 2 weeks to set up the rotation so he could start on the road. Hopefully they sweep and it does not matter.

      • There will be an off day between 2 and 3 right? But it still is a dumb decision, but eventhough it is obvious Bailey should start on the road, it would be equally dumb to start him in the one park where his ERA doubles when you had 2 weeks to set up the rotation so he could start on the road. Hopefully they sweep and it does not matter.

        Yes, there will be a travel day between games 2 and 3. That is the only off-day in the LDS.

        And I agree that Bailey should start on the road in game 2. The reasoning is pretty simple:

        1) Unless you want 2 pitchers to go on short rest, you need 4 starters.
        2) If you go with 4 starters, Bailey will definitely get a start unless one team sweeps.
        3) If Bailey will likely get a start anyway, why not maximize his chances in that start by letting him make it away from GABP?

        By looking at the numbers, Bailey has been the Reds’ best road starter this year. So it’s not unreasonable at all to expect that a forward-thinking manager would slot Bailey in right behind his ace.

        • Yes, there will be a travel day between games 2 and 3. That is the only off-day in the LDS.

          And I agree that Bailey should start on the road in game 2.The reasoning is pretty simple:

          1) Unless you want 2 pitchers to go on short rest, you need 4 starters.
          2) If you go with 4 starters, Bailey will definitely get a start unless one team sweeps.
          3) If Bailey will likely get a start anyway, why not maximize his chances in that start by letting him make it away from GABP?

          By looking at the numbers, Bailey has been the Reds’ best road starter this year. So it’s not unreasonable at all to expect that a forward-thinking manager would slot Bailey in right behind his ace.

          You make perfect sense, but that’s not the way the Reds will do it. I’ve given up hope on this one.

  17. @zblakey: Strange that you are first that I am aware of to ask this question. Great question. Personally, I’d like to see Navarro latch on with a major league club. I don’t think that will happen in Cincinnati.

  18. Vin Scully in the bottom of the 9th, with the Dodgers’ season on the line: “I want you to feel like you’re here, so I’ll keep the talking to a minimum.” In the same situation, THOM would probably have been shouting about High School FOOTBALL or something that happened with the Ar-I-zonia DIIIA-MONNNND BACKS a decade ago. Is it me, or has Thom recently gone from very annoying to absolutely horrendous?

    • Is it me, or has Thom recently gone from very annoying to absolutely horrendous?

      I just think he’s trying too hard. He wants to be seen as objective like his father, but he takes it too far and seems too critical at times. To me he just always sounds angry.

  19. Reds should continue to play their starters tonight. Even though I would prefer them to play the Giants versus the Braves in the first round.

  20. I’ll be very disappointed if somehow Arroyo gets two starts in a five game NLDS and Bailey gets none. Yes, statistically they’ve been very similar this year but Bailey has pitched very well of late and I think the chances of Arroyo having two rough outings (or for that matter, Bailey) are much less than the chances that both of them each have one poor start. Put a different way, I’d expect a really good game from at least one of them. If they both stink then the Reds never had a chance anyway…

  21. @CI3J: You’re missing the main point. Yes, I like Bailey over Arroyo, but the real question is, if two starters are to get two starts each in the NLDS, do you really want Arroyo getting 2 starts over Mat Latos?

    Really?

    If they go with a 4 man rotation, I like Bailey as 2 and Arroyo as 4, but it’s not that big of a deal because Cueto pitches game 5 either way. But if you go 3 man rotation, Mat Latos has to get 2 starts. To do anything else is lunacy.

    • @Hank Aarons Teammate:

      You’re missing the main point. Yes, I like Bailey over Arroyo, but the real question is, if two starters are to get two starts each in the NLDS, do you really want Arroyo getting 2 starts over Mat Latos

      You make a good point. The Bailey issue is annoying, but we kind of knew it would go that way. Not positioning Latos to help the team as much as possible is nearly criminal. Anybody here with significant playing or managing experience to back up Dusty’s belief in breaking up power arms?

  22. @CFD3000: And let’s remember the Giants/Cards/Braves are in no better shape when it comes to their #3 and #4 starters. Whoever we play will likely have an even less desirable set of choices. Personally, I’d go with a 4 man rotation—Cueto/Latos/Arroyo/Bailey, but circumstances (say, a blowout in one of the first two games) could persuade me to bring one of the first two back on 3 days rest if they don’t exceed 90 pitches or something. I think part of the reason the starters were on pitch limits the last two starts was to keep them fresh for such a need.

  23. Last night is the reason people want Latos getting two starts over Arroyo. Isn’t this why Jocketty brought him in? So the two big guns can dominate a playoff series?

    • Last night is the reason people want Latos getting two starts over Arroyo. Isn’t this why Jocketty brought him in? So the two big guns can dominate a playoff series?

      Apparently not.

  24. You gotta wonder what the Reds travel plans will be over the next 3 days. Fly back to Cincy? Head straight to SanFran to acclimate to the time zone?

    • You gotta wonder what the Reds travel plans will be over the next 3 days.Fly back to Cincy?Head straight to SanFran to acclimate to the time zone?

      If they fly to SF they might forfeit if they end up playing the Braves/Cards winner.

      Jackson vs Lee today in the Nats game; Jackson has been slumping, is bad vs Phil; Lee has been hot, is good vs Wash. I am guessing it’ll come down to the Reds/Cards game.

  25. I think I’ll be rooting for the Nationals to win today. I don’t want to have to fly to either Atlanta or St. Louis the night before the start of a series to play a hot team just after they win an elimination game. Let’s go straight to San Fran and take care of business there.

  26. If the Reds go 3 man and Arroyo starts 2 games, the only reason is that Dusty Baker feels comfortable with him because he has experience. There is no other explanation I can think of. One might think Walt Jocketty would want to step in here, if only to justify his off-season trade.

    Speaking of comfort/experience, unless the Reds pinch run for Rolen in a critical spot, Todd Frazier will get a number of at bats exactly equal to the number of games played in the NLDS. At least Rolen hit a home run yesterday, so he’s going into the NLDS in way better shape than in 2010, which is not to say “good shape” though.

    If the Reds carry two catchers, and refuse to hit Navarro in a key spot (in place of Cairo or Valdez), then Dusty Baker and Walt Jocketty have failed in this instance.

  27. Okay, I’m trying to breathe deeply. Chad’s article on ESPN about Dusty earlier this year was one of the most enlightening things I’ve read all year about the Reds. Since then, I’ve really tried to not second guess everything the man does and have come to think he should be back next year.

    However, if Arroyo gets two LDS starts and Latos gets only one, then that has got to be one of the most boneheaded things to ever happen. I’m dumbfounded that it’s even being considered. I’m nearly at a loss for words and that is pretty rare for me!

    The fact that Dusty doesn’t seem to have a concept of the schedule of the playoffs sends up some serious red flags about his health and the decision making going forward. The Reds struggling offense is minor compared to this.

    Am I making too much of this? Please tell me I am!!!

    • However, if Arroyo gets two LDS starts and Latos gets only one, then that has got to be one of the most boneheaded things to ever happen.I’m dumbfounded that it’s even being considered.I’m nearly at a loss for words and that is pretty rare for me!

      The fact that Dusty doesn’t seem to have a concept of the schedule of the playoffs sends up some serious red flags about his health and the decision making going forward.The Reds struggling offense is minor compared to this.

      Yes, giving Arroyo more starts than Latos would be pretty boneheaded.

      As for the LDS schedule, there are only two possibilities of why Dusty would even mention going with a 3-man rotation:

      1) Dusty has no idea there is only one off-day (which is probably not the case, but would be pretty sad if it were)
      2) Dusty is planning on starting both Cueto and Arroyo on short rest in games 4 and 5. (Hopefully Cueto’s arm will still be intact for next season.)

  28. Lots of discussion and worry about what the rotation will be. I’m not half as concerned about the rotation as I am the offense. Losing 6 to 1 is no different than losing 2 to 1. I’m praying the bats magically reappear once the NLDS starts.

  29. @RedZeppelin: True enough, but one way to think about is that given they’ll see a lot of good pitching, low scoring games are probably going to be more the norm, regardless… so the Reds may as well do their best to keep other teams from scoring too.

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