2012 Reds / Reds - General

Titanic Struggle Recap: Reds win series vs. Pirates. Ho-hum.

Let’s recap today’s titanic struggle…

FINAL

Cincinnati Reds 4
Pittsburgh Pirates 3
WP:  Marshall (5-5, 2.55 ERA)
LP:  Hanrahan (5-2, 2.72 ERA)
S: Chapman (37)

Boxscore

POSITIVES

With the win, and a loss by the Washington Harpers, the Reds (96-63) would be tied with Washington for the best record in baseball and top seed in the postseason. The Harpers have the tie-breaker edge since they won the season series against the Reds.

 Joey Votto had two hits and knocked in his seventh run since coming off the DL. He has yet to hit a home run since his return. If I was the Reds manager, I’d have him batting leadoff in St. Louis and the postseason. His OBP in September is .528. If his knee prevents his power from returning until next year, I’d have him bat first and put Jay Bruce in the three hole. Of course, if JoeyMVP hits a few home runs in St. Louis. Great. And never mind.

 Johnny Cueto pitched well today, giving up only one earned run, a home run to Andrew McCutchen. He was victimized by two unearned runs that followed a Votto error at first base. Cueto gave up six hits, struck out six and walked one. He deserved his 20th win.

Sam LeCure and Sean Marshall combined for a 1-2-3 eighth inning.

Xavier Paul hit a game-tying home run in the top of the ninth inning.

For the second game in a row, Ryan Ludwick had a pinch-hit double. Luckwick, nursing a groin injury, was initially on the lineup card today, but was scratched because of the rain and fear of slippery ground.

Zack Cozart delivered the game-winning double down the left field line in the ninth inning.

NEGATIVES

Miguel Cairo continued his poor defensive play, muffing an easy play at 3B and botching a routine rundown. If he makes the postseason roster it will have to be based on something other than his offensive contribution or defense. 

Brandon Phillips left the game with “tightness in a leg muscle” which he seemed to aggravate rounding second base early in the game. It didn’t seem serious. But it sure would be nice to have our regular lineup in a couple of the games in St. Louis.

Aroldis Chapman gave up two walks and a single before striking out the last two hitters. He was aided by terrible base running. His velocity was fine, nothing to worry about.

NOT-SO-RANDOM THOUGHTS

• The Pirates (77-82) will complete their twentieth consecutive season with a losing record. After mid-season echos of the 1970s, the Pirates folded through August and September. Arrrrrmagedon turned into yaaaaaawn. Pete Rose and Willie Stargell into Wilson Valdez and Clint Barmes. After all their tough talk, they never retaliated for the HBP. Enjoy watching us in the postseason, Pirates.

TOP GAME THREAD COMMENTS 

MwvSuper Todd! Another crazy swing to the left side for the run.

59 thoughts on “Titanic Struggle Recap: Reds win series vs. Pirates. Ho-hum.

  1. The Pirate broadcasters didn’t even think Tabata screwed up in trying for 3rd on the pickoff. I don’t agree with them, but they took it as a “given” that he would make it to 3rd, and were amazed that Valdez could make that throw without taking a step.

    That was a good play by Valdez, but I knew he could throw. I was more surprised by his running as fast as he could after the ball. They liked him in Philly for that kind of hustle. I guess he’s waited for late September to turn it on this year.

  2. Actually the Pirates did retaliate when they hit BP on the knee in the most recent series in Cincy. Wasn’t that when BP rolled the ball back to the pitcher ?

    Hurdle had talked too much and made too big a deal out of retaliating. The Pirates were still in in at that point and should have been totally focused on winning.

  3. Some people on the game thread were wondering about Grilli’s celebration after striking out Bruce and why the Pirates were so intense in this game. They were very serious about going for their first .500 season in so many years. Their broadcasters were also reacting to this game like it was Game 7 of a WS.

    You could say that for them it was an elimination game.

    • Some people on the game thread were wondering about Grilli’s celebration after striking out Bruce and why the Pirates were so intense in this game.They were very serious about going for their first .500 season in so many years. Their broadcasters were also reacting to this game like it was Game 7 of a WS.

      You could say that for them it was an elimination game.

      Well, Johnny didn’t get his 20th win, but the Bucs just got their 20th, consecutive losing season. I’m not going to lose much sleep over it.

  4. Ludwick does not seem to have lost his stroke. It will be a big plus to have him back in the lineup.

  5. As much as I would like to see the regular lineup playing against St. Louis, if there’s any real issue with BP’s leg, he’s got to sit.

  6. Cairo will be on the postseason roster, and it won’t be because of his offense or defense. When I saw that he was playing 3rd base today, I had a lump in my throat. He is a defensive liability at first base and 2nd base. He is worse at 3rd base, he can’t play a major league 3rd base anymore. I base that on how he played at 3rd early in the season, not on today.

  7. I have not really looked at the numbers, but I feel like Cozart has been doing better in front of Votto. Why not have Cozart Votto Phillips Bruce Frazier/Ludwick Rolen/Frazier Stubbs Hanigan Pitcher?

    I feel bad yet indifferent to the Pirates’ situation. That ridiculous trade that was made for what I can only assume to be an “any move is a good move” philosophy.

  8. @RichmondRed: With the “regular” lineup in place, Dusty has made it clear that Cozart would bat second, with BP leading off. I like Coart’s offense more than others do on the blog, he gets a lot of extra base hits and maybe clutch is mostly a myth but when he’s up in a big situation (like today) I feel he might do something, as he’ll keep his cool.

    The problem obviously is with his OBP and that’s more a matter of his rarely taking a walk than his BA. Seems fixable with a different approach but is he being encouraged to take that approach ?

    • With the “regular” lineup in place, Dusty has made it clear that Cozart would bat second, with BP leading off. I like Coart’s offense more than others do on the blog, he gets a lot of extra base hits and maybe clutch is mostly a myth but when he’s up in a big situation (like today) I feel he might do something, as he’ll keep his cool.

      The problem obviously is with his OBP and that’s more a matter of his rarely taking a walk than his BA. Seems fixable with a different approach but is he being encouraged to take that approach ?

      I’m in the camp that Cozart is performing as expected right now. This isn’t anything bad. His OPS is pretty much dead on the average NL SS, low on the OBP and high on the SLG. He’s make a great #8 hitter. Which makes him a top of the order hitter for Dusty of course. :)

      Minors AVG OBP SLG OPS
      Cozart .248 .290 .403 .693
      NL SS .257 .311 .384 .696

      Some have mentioned Gregorius as competition, but his minor league numbers say he’ll put up similar AVG and OBP numbers to Cozart with significantly less power. So unless there is maybe a L/R platoon match up with them (thus far Cozart hits LH and RH the same) Gregorius appears that he’d be an offensive drop off.

      Minors AB AVG OBP SLG OPS
      Cozart 1940 .270 .332 .421 .753
      Gregorius 1735 .271 .323 .376 .699

      I’m hoping Hamilton becomes a full time CF in AAA next year and just tears it up. We need him to displace Stubbs in CF, take on the leadoff position, and allow us to Dusty-proof the lineup. I might even go with some kind of Heisey/Paul split in CF and lead off until Hamilton is ready.

      CF Hamilton
      2B Phillips
      1B Votto
      LF Ludwick
      RF Bruce
      3B Frazier
      C Hanigan
      SS Cozart

    • @Larry1980: I was having the same thought at some point. Then think I read XP’s range (and perhaps arm) is considered suspect to inadequate for CF.

      The Reds could stick Xavier Paul or Chris Heisey in CF and both could play the position, they just both happen to be worse than Stubbs defensively. The Reds value pitching and defense and have kept with Stubbs this long and I doubt they’ll change their philosophy going into the postseason.

      @Tom Diesman: Gregorius and HenRod are very nice additions to the Reds bench, replacing Cairo and probably Valdez. I believe Cozart will only get better — IF he gets a hitting coach with some ability. So far, that’s not happened.

      The secret to Stubbs is to deal him cheap to the AL — where he can join Dunn, E5 and Josh as 40-plus homer guys.

      Gregorius and Henry Rodriguezare nice additions but they weren’t promoted sooner because they weren’t ready. Both are likely to head back to AAA next season to play everyday – who knows how long they’ll stay there.

      With Cozart’s low OBP I believe he can only get better, but that’s just because he’s had a pretty crummy offensive season. He’s almost as easy to get out as Drew Stubbs but he has rookie status on his side.

      Rockies are open to trading Dexter Fowler along with other position players for pitching. Reds should jump on that.

      Someone come up with the trade that could do it.

      Dexter Fowler could provide a long term solution in CF and leadoff but he’d be expensive to acquire. The Reds value pitching and defense over bats and I really doubt they’re willing to trade Cingrani, Daniel Corcino, Robert Stephenson, or Nick Travieso – let alone any combination of those players – to get him from the Rockies. Except for Billy Hamilton the farm system is almost empty of hitting prospects. I think you should continue to watch Hamilton’s progress rather than expect a replacement from Stubbs from outside of the organization.

      @RichmondRed: With the “regular” lineup in place, Dusty has made it clear that Cozart would bat second, with BP leading off.I like Coart’s offense more than others do on the blog, he gets a lot of extra base hits and maybe clutch is mostly a myth but when he’s up in a big situation (like today) I feel he might do something, as he’ll keep his cool.

      The problem obviously is with his OBP and that’s more a matter of his rarely taking a walk than his BA.Seems fixable with a different approach but is he being encouraged to take that approach ?

      Cozart got off to a hot start both this season and last season while hitting second – last year he got hurt before things evened out, this year his numbers have slowly but steadily declined as the season progressed. As a somewhat struggling rookie I’m worried that Cozart is constantly being encouraged to take different and conflicting approaches depending on who’s talking to him. In your case the priority is to focus on taking more walks. I assume that sounds easier than it is.

  9. @pinson343: I honestly don’t know. He bats in front of the OBP king, I would hope that would be self-evident by now…

    One thing I am honestly focusing on: will the Reds go guns out to keep the Cardinals away from the postseason? If the Dodgers hold on today and the Reds take at least 2/3 or sweep while the Dodgers sweep or take 2/3, then the Dodgers get the unenviable 5 spot. How badly do the Giants want to keep out the Dodgers since they are locked at the third seed?

    It’s a long shot, but it would feel so satisfying to see them unable to defend their title.

    • @pinson343: I honestly don’t know. He bats in front of the OBP king, I would hope that would be self-evident by now…

      One thing I am honestly focusing on: will the Reds go guns out to keep the Cardinals away from the postseason? If the Dodgers hold on today and the Reds take at least 2/3 or sweep while the Dodgers sweep or take 2/3, then the Dodgers get the unenviable 5 spot. How badly do the Giants want to keep out the Dodgers since they are locked at the third seed?

      It’s a long shot, but it would feel so satisfying to see them unable to defend their title.

      Just curious what happens if Cards and Dodgers tie? Do they play a play-in somewhere and then go to Atlanta, this would be a huge advantage if you had the number 1?
      What if Nats lose the next 3 and Braves catch them, do they do a 1 game play off for the division?

      • Just curious what happens if Cards and Dodgers tie? Do they play a play-in somewhere and then go to Atlanta, this would be a huge advantage if you had the number 1?
        What if Nats lose the next 3 and Braves catch them, do they do a 1 game play off for the division?

        It would be a nightmare for MLB, two tie breaking games, but I bet if braves and Nats tie the division goes to winner of season series, but a game to decide wc team would be played on Thursday.

  10. • Johnny Cueto pitched well today, giving up only one earned run, a home run to Andrew McCutchen. He was victimized by two unearned runs that followed a Votto error at first base. Cueto gave up six hits, struck out six and walked one. He deserved his 20th win.

    Andrew did not go deep today. He did get an RBI single for the only earned run. Jones hit the dinger as one of those two unearned runs

  11. When Chapman lost to the Pirates in June, it was on back-to-back hard hit doubles by Barmes and McKenry. For all the trouble he was having locating his fastball today, he threw his slider twice, both times for called strikes, one the called 3rd strike to McKenry.

    Even the Pirate broadcasters thought Chapman was getting squeezed on the first two hitters, but then complained the ump was giving him anything close after that. In any case, a lot of his fastballs were way up or way down, some work needs to be done there.

  12. @RichmondRed: It’s really interesting, ordinarily in this situation you wouldn’t expect the Reds or Giants to play all out in the final series, but both have a chance to keep their chief rival out of the playoffs.

    I’ve been rooting for this scenario because I wanted to see the Reds play their regular lineup and play hard as a tuneup for the postseason. But if for example what BP felt in his groin rounding 2nd was anything AT ALL, don’t play him against the Cards.

    My hope is that whether it’s the Cards or the Dodgers, they get eliminated by Atlanta, which deserves to be in the playoffs. For the next 3 days the ideal outcome in my mind is for the Cards and the Dodgers to tie, making it tougher for either to beat the Braves.

  13. @Tom Diesman: Nice post. The one confusing thing is the typo “minors” before his major league stats. Then the first line is for 2012 and the 2nd is for his career (prior to today in both cases).

    • Nice post. The one confusing thing is the typo “minors” before his major league stats. Then the first line is for 2012 and the 2nd is for his career (prior to today in both cases).

      Oops, sorry about that. First line is Cozart this year, second line is NL SS this season. Meant to illustrate, “His OPS is pretty much dead on the average NL SS, low on the OBP and high on the SLG.”

      2012 AVG OBP SLG OPS
      Cozart .248 .290 .403 .693
      NL SS .257 .311 .384 .696

  14. Rockies are open to trading Dexter Fowler along with other position players for pitching. Reds should jump on that.

    Someone come up with the trade that could do it.

    • Rockies are open to trading Dexter Fowler along with other position players for pitching. Reds should jump on that.

      Someone come up with the trade that could do it.

      My suggestion: I’ll trade nothing for Dexter Fowler.

      His OPS is .984 at home, and .720 on the road. I’ll pass. Not that I wouldn’t want him over what the Reds have, but not at the cost it would take.

      • My suggestion: I’ll trade nothing for Dexter Fowler.

        His OPS is .984 at home, and .720 on the road.I’ll pass.Not that I wouldn’t want him over what the Reds have, but not at the cost it would take.

        You have to keep in mind that most of his road games are in large stadiums. Flip him over to the NL Central and those numbers would even out.

        • You have to keep in mind that most of his road games are in large stadiums. Flip him over to the NL Central and those numbers would even out.

          It might, sure. I just have a thing for not wanting players who have some kind of weird home/road split. I will never get Dante Bichette out of my head.

  15. Can any mods tell me if there are plans to fix / bring back the mobile site? It hasn’t worked in several weeks at least. The full site comes up instead now. Thanks.

  16. On the “retaliation:”

    I think BP’s complaint was that the Parrots retaliated against him — and he wasn’t even on the field that series.

    All that was a product of Parrots media churning up crap.

    BP would have had no problem knowing about all that, and I think his complaints about the racism carried more weight than just what allegedly was said by Hughes. I tracked some of that back to some fairly vile comments by bloggers and their followers that were a lot more “public” than the Parrots wanted to admit.

    Hurdle and Burnett made a very big deal of it and the lame Pittsburgh media even bought into it without so much as once even asking for a response from the Reds.

  17. @Tom Diesman: Gregorius and HenRod are very nice additions to the Reds bench, replacing Cairo and probably Valdez. I believe Cozart will only get better — IF he gets a hitting coach with some ability. So far, that’s not happened.

    The secret to Stubbs is to deal him cheap to the AL — where he can join Dunn, E5 and Josh as 40-plus homer guys.

  18. @OhioJim: The example above specifically states that is two teams tie for a division and both have a WC qualifying record (i.e. as with Nats and Bravos this year), the two teams have a one game playoff for the divison championship with the loser then going into the Wild Card game.

    • @Larry1980: I was having the same thought at some point. Then think I read XP’s range (and perhaps arm) is considered suspect to inadequate for CF.

      Based on what we’ve seen this year, yes.

    • @OhioJim: Its a shame he is 10 times a better hitter than Stubbs

      Must be my bedtime. I just quoted myself. This is where I meant to say, “Based on what we’ve seen this year, yes”.

  19. So, the Reds end up at 15-11 for September. Consider how early they clinched and started playing grab bag line ups plus that they were actually playing a lot of the same sort of line ups even before they clinched and the month becomes a real testament to the art of grinding things out.

    • So, the Reds end up at 15-11 for September. Consider how early they clinched and started playing grab bag line ups plus that they were actually playing a lot of the same sort of line ups even before they clinched and the month becomes a real testament to the art of grinding things out.

      There’s nothing wrong with the way they pitched in September. It’s the hitting.

      Basically, the Reds enter the postseason trying to win the World Series in a not dissimilar way to the 2010 Giants. There’s nothing wrong with that; the good pitching/good defense/bad hitting has won several world series. I’d just rather have good hitting also.

      Hopefully the July/August lineup will show and not the rest of the year lineup.

  20. The Reds should go all out in this series with the Cardnials send these bastards a message, in case they play in the playoffs.

  21. I love this team. That’s all. Take it to the Birds. Also, dibs right now on rights to the term “Sparky Bowl” for an I-75 WS between the Reds and Tigers. :D

    • I love this team. That’s all. Take it to the Birds. Also, dibs right now on rights to the term “Sparky Bowl” for an I-75 WS between the Reds and Tigers.

      I used “Sparky Series” in the preview earlier this year. I think the alliteration gives it an edge over Sparky Bowl. :-)

  22. Glad the Brewers got hot and are over .500. Now the Reds don’t have to lose all their (Pirate) victories against an over .500 team that tanked. Net loss of two games. For as much as it matters, which it doesn’t, except for when national media wants to diss the Reds.

  23. negatives:
    Heisey since Sept 9 – batting .089 with obp of .241
    Stubbs since Sept 9 – batting .146 with obp of .196 and .431 strikeout rate

    Heisey since Aug 8 – batting .250 with obp of .324
    Stubbs since Aug 6 – batting .157 with obp of .209 and .388 strikeout rate

    Heisey since All-star – batting .267 with obp of .329 (k rate of .229) runs/pa .160
    Stubbs since All-star – batting .210 with obp of .269 (k rate of .337) runs/pa .129

    Heisey season – batting .267 with obp of .317 (k rate of .215) runs/pa .118
    Stubbs season – batting .213 with obp of .278 (k rate of .305) runs/pa .138

  24. @rfay00:

    Fowler is OK, but I am not sure what his age is. Isn’t he about 32?? I might go younger. Fowler is batting .300 and a .389 OBP. That is 100 points higher than Stubbs and Cozart on the OBP. He only has 12 SB. That is a concern.
    If I’m going to trade away for a CF, I think the Reds should aim higher. Miami’s Bonifacio maybe, he was hurt alot this year but had 30 SB’s in 244 AB’s. Wow. D-back’s Parra maybe, but that will cost a bunch. The Twins’ Span, but that will be a high cost too. There are some higher profile CF’s, but they would cost even higher.

    • @rfay00:

      Fowler is OK, but I am not sure what his age is.Isn’t he about 32?? I might go younger.Fowler is batting .300 and a .389 OBP.That is 100 points higher than Stubbs and Cozart on the OBP.He only has 12 SB.That is a concern.
      If I’m going to trade away for a CF, I think the Reds should aim higher.Miami’s Bonifacio maybe, he was hurt alot this year but had 30 SB’s in 244 AB’s. Wow. D-back’s Parra maybe, but that will cost a bunch. The Twins’ Span, but that will be a high cost too.There are some higher profile CF’s, but they would cost even higher.

      Dexter Fowler is a 26 year old switch hitting CF who is hitting .293 against RHPs and .315 against LHPs this season. He’s a better hitter and better at reaching base than any of the other CFs who we hear about. I don’t think they CAN aim higher offensively, but I also don’t think they can afford to give up what it would take to acquire him. The Reds wanting a player doesn’t mean the other team will give him up for cheap.

      Stealing bases is a plus for a leadoff hitter but it’s not a necessity. Being able to get on base is the first priority, and Fowler does that well.

      If they could snap their fingers and grab any mentioned CF I think Fowler is the best option. I think David DeJesus is the most realistic option. I don’t want a washed up Juan Pierre or Shane Victorino or a huge contract to Michael Bourn.

  25. Looking at the standings I was thinking to myself “wow, Pittsburgh kind of mortgaged the future and now they’re almost 20 games back. And THEN they get no hit.” The losing record streak didn’t even occur to me.

  26. I keep looking at the standings and saying “Here are the top 5 things I want the Reds to do:

    5. Get the 1 seed
    4. Sweep the playoffs
    3. Win the NL pennant
    2. Keep the Cardinals out of the playoffs
    1. World Series win

    There is a lot of irony in wanting the Dodgers in the playoffs more than the Cardinals, seeing as the Reds and Dodgers were big West rivals until the realignment/expansion thing.

  27. @RichmondRed: I spoke to a minister who’s a baseball fan, primarily the Reds. I asked him if it was OK to pray that the WLBs get beat and he said, generally, it would be inappropiate to pray for people to fail. But in this case, he thought God might approve it.

  28. I am guessing I am in the minority here, but winning the division and battling for the best record for me is the cake. Anything we do in the playoffs is a bonus. As we are seeing in sports, the overall best team doesn’t always win the title. There is very few people who when the NFL playoffs started last year anyone thought the Giants were the best team, then look at MLB last year, the Cards got into the playoffs by luck and end up winning in due to some serious luck.

    Given how the top seeds are really screwed due to the playoff format this year I am happy what this franchise did during the regular season and anything from here on out is just gravy..

    • Given how the top seeds are really screwed due to the playoff format this year

      That’s crazy. The way they’re doing home field this year in a single round is stupid, but it’s hardly the end of world.

      – There is now absolutely, without a doubt, a HUGE incentive to win your division as opposed to just picking up a wildcard spot.

      – There is also a pretty clear advantage to taking the top seed, as you’ll play the wildcard team that already used its top pitcher.

      The 3 seed potentially has a minor advantage over the 2 seed. Last year all four teams basically had a 25% chance. To complain about the home field advantage this year is to ignore the things that were done right.

      • That’s crazy. The way they’re doing home field this year in a single round is stupid, but it’s hardly the end of world.- There is now absolutely, without a doubt, a HUGE incentive to win your division as opposed to just picking up a wildcard spot.- There is also a pretty clear advantage to taking the top seed, as you’ll play the wildcard team that already used its top pitcher.The 3 seed potentially has a minor advantage over the 2 seed. Last year all four teams basically had a 25% chance. To complain about the home field advantage this year is to ignore the things that were done right.

        The WC team can make it to the NLCS with only having 1 road game, how is that fair?

      • That’s crazy. The way they’re doing home field this year in a single round is stupid, but it’s hardly the end of world.

        – There is now absolutely, without a doubt, a HUGE incentive to win your division as opposed to just picking up a wildcard spot.

        – There is also a pretty clear advantage to taking the top seed, as you’ll play the wildcard team that already used its top pitcher.

        The 3 seed potentially has a minor advantage over the 2 seed. Last year all four teams basically had a 25% chance. To complain about the home field advantage this year is to ignore the things that were done right.

        Honestly, I also am very tired of hearing how a team that has 2 home games in a best of 5 has the advantage. They don’t. I still haven’t heard one good argument why it’s worse to have a 2/3 than a 2/2/1 (the old format). (Aside from the club’s issue of possibly having fewer home games.)

        • Honestly, I also am very tired of hearing how a team that has 2 home games in a best of 5 has the advantage. They don’t. I still haven’t heard one good argument why it’s worse to have a 2/3 than a 2/2/1 (the old format). (Aside from the club’s issue of possibly having fewer home games.)

          In a 7 game series I would agree, but with having the first two at home is HUGE. Especially when you have to travel west and could come home having to sweep. A WC team should not be able to make it to the NLCS with only playing 1 road game possibly. Momentum is HUGE in sports, in 2010 that no hitter by RH vs. the Reds sucked the life out of the Reds and all but ended that series after 1 game. Do you think he throws that no-no had the game been in cincy…I don’t think so…

  29. @seat101: Ok yeah if you want to be completely correct. :mrgreen:

    Anyone else get their email about NLCS tickets? I was lucky enough to get chosen for this round. Will probably buy tickets for the third home game so against everything I really want lets not sweep the NLCS.

    • @seat101: Anyone else get their email about NLCS tickets? I was lucky enough to get chosen for this round. Will probably buy tickets for the third home game so against everything I really want lets not sweep the NLCS.

      Aren’t you supposed to get the email no matter what?

      I haven’t received anything yet. I DID win the right to buy tickets for the NLDS, and I was led to believe that my same entry would also be eligible for the NLCS and WS.

  30. @Hank Aarons Teammate: The implication that potentially playing an extra home game gives a team that already only has a 50/50 shot of winning the wildcard spot and starting the series without their #1 pitcher is also tired.

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