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The Reds can go a long way toward ending Pittsburgh’s playoff hopes tonight. After last night, the Pirates are just four games over .500, and they trail Cincinnati by 12 games in the NL Central.
Time to end this thing.
Discuss the game here. Go Redlegs.
Here’s the lineup. Valdez at SS again (wish it was Gregorious). Rolen back at third with Frazier getting a much deserved night off. Stubbs in CF batting second. Navarro catching Leake.
1. Brandon Phillips (R) 2B
2. Drew Stubbs (R) CF
3. Joey Votto (L) 1B
4. Ryan Ludwick (R) LF
5. Jay Bruce (L) RF
6. Scott Rolen (R) 3B
7. Dioner Navarro (S) C
8. Wilson Valdez (R) SS
9. Mike Leake (R) P
I said anytime I see Cairo or Valdez in the lineup i want to cry. Zach Cozart please get healthy soon.
I think we can pretty assume at this point the following..
1. Dusty is not willing to give many of the callups any real game action.
2. I think it’s clear Devin is NOT in this teams long term plans as long as Dusty is manager..so hello local Indy boy Tucker B., your Reds future catcher
3. Votto proclaimed that even after a 14 inning game his knee felt great…that is great news…
@dn4192:
I disagree with this point. They may have decided that he is not going to be their postseason catcher this year. If that is the case then it makes sense to get Navarro reps as we close out the year. I find it hard to believe that they give up on Mesoraco after 3/4 of a season. Especially after deciding he was the guy, not Grandal.
@Larry1980: The good news is, I can’t imagine both of them making the postseason roster. Maybe one, but not both. I think XPaul has proven his worth to the team as the 5th outfielder and LH bat off the bench, plus Gregorious has looked promising in his small amount of playing time.
It is up to Walt to create the 25-man for each playoff series, correct? If it were up to Dusty, then maybe I’d be more concerned. But I think Valdez is going to be the odd-man out this October.
I’m gonna go against the grain a little bit here. I’d like to see the kids play, too, but let’s face it – Valdez and Cairo are going to be on the playoff roster. The kids aren’t. And we might, God forbid, have to actually put them in a game at some point. So we kinda need to keep them as “sharp” as possible. Maybe we can “get ‘em going”.
I was struck by the fact that when the Reds played in Philly, Valdez always seemed to get a pretty warm reception from a notoriously fairly vicious fan base. There must be more to that guy than we’ve seen this year…
I think most here think that Paul/Cairo and Valdez will be battling for the final 2 roster spots. Since it appears that Narrvaro and Hanigan have the catcher spots down, that leaves those 3 for the final to playoff roster spots depending on how many pitchers we take.
@RC: The philly fans are happy because he is in a Reds uniform.
@seat101:
As reported by Mark Sheldon
I knew those wacky kids would make it work.
I would disagree with that, when he played CF earlier this year while Stubbs and Heisey I both were banged up and hurt he did a very nice job in the field and at the plate. I also believe he has his own game ending/winning hit to his credit this season.
@dn4192: I don’t think Meso’s fall from grace has only to do with Dusty. Seems to me it has all the earmarks of an organizatinal decision. For his part, Dusty actually played Meso 40% of the time right up to when he was sent out.
Valdez hits not one–but two homeruns tonight! Book it!
I’ll bet he doesn’t hit one anywhere near the warning track.
Wow, I didn’t know that Valdez’ request to bat from the outfield grass was approved.
That was almost the first one. Missed it by a hair.
Continuing the Chicken Little discussion, I’d love to hear why I’m supposed to believe Jeff Brantley’s argument that the problem with Chapman’s velocity is his mechanics, when the team (as stated by Dusty Baker) has now stated that he has arm fatigue. Maybe Brantley should be the new pitching coach.
Sure, the trainers are looking out for everything. I guess we’ve all just forgotten the Votto scenario, the Phillips scenario. Nothing against the trainers, but professional athletes quite often do not admit when they are hurt.
Obviously, I can’t be sure of anything, but I believe he’s hurt. Not because of Fitch’s somewhat ad hominem argument that I reflexively jump to conclusions. In fact, while many were jumping to conclusions that the playoffs were lost, I have consistently called the last week a slump and no big deal.
Fatigue can cause issues with mechanics, not hard to see both issues are in play here.
@RedsFan19: Plus, he leaps into the stands and Heimlichs a choking fan.
Wilson Valdez has 6 HRs in his career….2 would be a miracle
But this is the Great American Small Park and he is getting loads of playing time and is big time due. Plus he is on roids! Just look at him!
I think if Valdez gets on base twice tonight it’d be a small miracle.
@Hank Aarons Teammate: Mechanics and arm fatigue are not mutually exclusive, you know.
That’s a good point. But a week and a half ago, the guy was still throwing hard (and so his mechanics were presumably good). So his mechanics went off the rails a few games ago and now he has arm fatigue that quickly? It’s possible, but it seems more likely that the arm fatigue is from the wear and tear of the season, or, it’s something else.
It happened earlier this season, not sure why it can’t happen again…
Or his technique’s been off for a while, but it took several weeks for it to cause the fatigue…
We *know* nothing. It’s all speculation. And it’s not like there’s ever going to be a concrete explanation. Even Chap wouldn’t know if his mechanics had changed, or he’d fix it, and if he’s not in any pain, he might not even know he’s lost MPH without checking the gun himself.
Get used to uncertainty, I’d say.
@BloodyHo: Also a more detailed report in John Fay’s blog
I thought Ludwick needed a rest too. Both Heisey and Ludwick played whole game last night, Heisey is younger and hits Correia better – yes, small samples. Or, play Paul and rest both.
Best case scenario: Valdez begins the game on the mound while Leake plays SS. Valdez finds Jared Hughes out in the bullpen. Stubbs sprints over and opens the bullpen door before the Pirates know what’s happening. Valdez beans Hughes and is ejected. Hughes pounds Valdez into a pulp, solving the problem with Valdez being on the postseason roster. The Gregorious Monk relieves Valdez and goes 0 for 5 but Reds fans are happy because he looks better doing it than Valdez ever does. Plus, there’s his name and stuff to be proud of.
There ya’ go, stuffy old Reds fans.
I feel that Wilson Valdez will be the game MVP tonight. Not only will he knock two out of the park, but i think he will make an amazing play over at short stop…twice. Its Wilson Time!
@RedsFan19: roids haha
@RC: they should “hug it out”
@BloodyHo: No Key? He’s not much of a DP combination, either.
Heisey has been red hot while Stubbs has been ice cold.
I just don’t get the infatuation Mr. Baker has with Stubbs or the complete disinfatuation Mr. Baker has with Heisey.
Heisey vs RHP .288/.338/.484/.822
Stubbs vs RHP .233/.306/.363/.669
Heisey vs Corriea .375/.375/1.000/1.375
Stubbs vs Corriea .250/.250/0.583/0.833
You have to think that every start from here on out is critical for Mike Leake.
Not a good start.
If I’m Dusty, he’s not on my playoff roster at this point. Not really sure where he’s needed with the bullpen we have. We have long guys (LeCure, Hoover, Simon) who I’d trust more over him right now.
Has Marty says, “Mike Leake isn’t fooling anybody!”
Marty has a long history of saying negative things about Reds starting pitchers in the first inning, only to be shown up by that starter tossing a solid or even great game. Don’t fall into that trap.
BP!!!!
Bravo Brandon!
Happy to see Stubbs being aggressive there.
Joey. Walks. Who saw that coming?
Oh boy. Wandy has really messed up Bruce again. Just hope this is a short one.
Marty is already expressing “concern” for Jay Bruce because of his going hitless last night and one out tonight. He was against a pretty tough lefty last night. Marty falls back into his comfortable criticism of Bruce, despite the tremendous year he’s having. Sad, really.
Some people do that. Go figure.
Why is it sad? It’s just one man’s opinion, it is wrong but I am not sure why people get so worked up about it.
I guess Marty expects Bruce to be the second coming of Ted Williams.
Or he is spot on. He is having a great year most of the time but when he is bad, he is awful. Marty just has the same fears we all do. Just crossing the fingers that the slump isnt back.
When Marty said “Mike Leake isn’t fooling anyone” in the first inning, had he struck out Andrew McCutchen by then?
Mike Leake cut his hair.
It happened just the other day.
@Steve Mancuso: Has Marty always been so negative? I’ve only followed the Reds for three years.
I think what’s changed over the years is Marty now doesn’t hesitate to criticize individual players. He used to be negative about the team in general (often, when they deserved it). But recently he has felt free to turn his guns on specific players. He doesn’t hide it. The worst part of that is how his objectivity goes out the window. I don’t find a single thing he says about Jay Bruce (and others) to be credible because his bias blinds him. I wish he’d stick to play-by-play and leave the color comments to the color commentator.
Brantley: There’s a lot of people who like JJ Hoover. But if the Manager doesn’t like him, it doesn’t matter.
How did that come up?
They were talking to Mark Sheldon about Aroldis Chapman missing games. Marty was saying he was glad the team had acquired Broxton. All agreed. Then Brantley said that.
I’m liking the ground balls much better than the rockets from the first inning
Navarro’s first walk of the year.
Hopefully, you mean first *major league* walk.
@RC: Nice CSN reference
Marty and Brantley forget that Leake is a hitter
This is how poorly JBruce is doing this year: http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2012-batting-leaders.shtml
Brantley: I’m glad Leake didn’t give the bunt down. That’s giving an out away and you don’t have to do that with Mike Leake.
(It should be noted that Brantley thought Baker should have had the previous batter, Wilson Valdez, bunting. Right on both counts?)
BP again!
@Jared Wynne: I wondered if anyone would get that one.
Look at them Reds a’husslin!
Mike Leake with some bold base running. Brantley: Leake takes his lead from third base like a normal hitter, with a secondary lead. He forced the issue with aggressive base running.
Pirates looking kind of shaky right now.
Who said we were going to get swept by these guys?
Bad baseball for Pirates…have a feeling Stubbs will get a couple hits tonight, maybe even launch one.
@Steve Mancuso: That is disappointing. I thought (and still think) Hoover was a real find.
Me too. Hoover has really developed his curve ball since he’s been with the Reds. He’s still really early in his career with the Reds. Baker moves slowly with young players, but he’ll eventually have to notice the job Hoover is doing. Plus, Hoover may well outlast Baker with the Reds.
Mike Leake has to be on the playoff roster, his hitting and athlethisim is to valuable to keep off.
Mike’s a pitcher. If he’s not pitching, he adds no value to the playoff roster. He’s athletic and a good hitter, for a pitcher, but he’s not a viable bat off the bench (although at this juncture he’s a better option than Valdez or Cairo).
@Steve Mancuso: Okay. So Marty is clearly gives Bruce a short leash. Tell me why you think that is. You must have an opinion.
How is Rolen’s swing. I am not watching.
@Richard Fitch: Once he forms an opinion of a player, he won’t change it based on new developments. At some point in the past, he came to the view that Bruce was a disappointing underachiever. Maybe he expected too much. Maybe Votto set the bar too high.
Everyone has opinions of players, and Marty is certainly entitled to his own. Given that his voice is amplified (not to mention the official voice of the Reds) I wish he’d cut out the negative stuff about our players. It’s one thing to point out a hitter is in a slump, it’s another thing entirely to make comments that call into question a player’s career/talents.
If that’s true, that’s disappointing. That’s a fan’s mentality. Fans are unrealistic and often ill-informed. But your HOF voice of the team shouldn’t be that myopic. In an effort to be fair to Marty, I’ve guessed that maybe Brennaman knows something about Bruce, perhaps something he thinks Bruce should be doing that he is not, that makes him unforgiving.
Otherwise, he’s just a crotchety old man.
Is Marty the same way with Stubbs?
With Stubbs, it’s mainly about all the strikeouts. But Bruce is one of the top five hitters in the entire NL this year. He should be treated with the same respect in tone that Joey Votto gets.
Where is everyone last night and tonight? Watching the highlights, the place is empty. I feel like its sad to have 16000 show up in the middle of september with your team about to clinch.
Is it just that school started? Last night it was that the Bengals were on, but tonight…?
Believe you me I would be there in a heartbeat if I werent at school in Utah
@Farney: It is a school night. I budgeted my ticket money for when I can take my sons, who are 8 and 9.
I cherish the times I get to take my son, now 16, to GABP. When he was your boys’ age, it was particularly sweet because, as you know, there is a special kind of wonder that 8 year old boys have for baseball. That’s gone for me, now.
Enjoy it. Time is a thief.
@Richard Fitch: Thank you. My 10 yo Brought me back to baseball. My 8yo loves the spectacle. On Sunday, at my 40th HS reunion, my youngest played toss and enjoyed it,. And it was with a guy who always targeted me in Dodgeball. Hard thrower then, a gentle, gentle man now.
What I don’t get is how we can have SO many hot/cold hitters on one team. Shouldn’t that be a red flag that maybe it is poor coaching? If it’s all mental, maybe we should fire Jacoby and get Dr. Phil as a hittin coach. Everyone on the roster has been red hot at some point this year so they already know how to hit.
Valdez is on FIRE!!!
Is there a worse base runner on the team than Valdez? Seriously, for being such a veterany player, he sure makes a lot of fundamental mistakes.
Brantley: That’s about as academic a running play as you have. If you’re on second and the ball is hit in front of you, you go back to second. It’s that simple.
@Farney: Sad and disheartening.
@Steve Mancuso:
It’s been said here before, but Marty negativity really started (or escalated) after Joe Nuxhall left the booth.
That was incredible. Terrific play.
What happened?
Great defensive play by Bruce-Votto-Philips to catch the runner off first base after that single. Made a huge difference in the inning. Bruce fired a shot right at Votto at the cutoff. Votto flipped back to first base where Phillips had snuck in behind the runner. Nice play.
I absolutely positively have to see that between the legs tag out BP got on the runner, never seen anything like, ever.
Meanwhile, the closely cropped Mike Leake who “wasn’t fooling anyone” has now made it through five innings giving up one run.
…..I think I’m completely done with Brantley and Marty as commentators.
That was the most ridiculous rant I’ve heard out of them in a LOONNGGGGGGGGGGG time.
Are they still talking about honey boo boo?
Brantley and Marty (of course) are now embarrassing themselves in discussing UZR. Saying UZR doesn’t measure the ‘human element’ of playing, like the play BP made. Brantley says you can have a clean uniform and score well with UZR. In fact, UZR attempts to measure range, which is something their old school metric of “fielding percentage” doesn’t. Sabermetrics people are the first to admit the shortcomings of defensive statistics. Brantley and Marty mocking Theo Epstein for following it. The Epstein that has put together two World Series champions in the past ten years.
Marty: “These people who follow ‘all this crap.’ They are the guys who are wearing the beanie caps.”
Brantley: I wonder how many sliders they’ve hit?
Marty: Haha. (possibly taking a second to realize he hasn’t hit a single slider).
Snap judgments are always fun. Meanwhile, here’s a snap judgment – Votto seems to be swinging flatfooted again tonight, like he was before he was DLed. As if he doesn’t want to put much torque on that knee. Maybe he’s been doing that ever since he came back. Or maybe it’s just me.
He still makes awfully good contact – that liner to 3rd was stung – but seems like it would be hard to generate much HR power that way.
@Jared Wynne: What were they talking about? I’m watching the game on my XBox.
I like that Brantley said that WAR isn’t an end all. It isn’t. He’s right. But it isn’t crap. Not by a long shot. I try to respect what Brantley brings to the table as a baseball analyst, but one also needs to be open to what one doesn’t know. Marty is terrible about that, and he’s starting to rub off on Brantley.
UGH.
I think it’s part of the deference everyone in the booth gives to Marty. I mean, have you ever listened to Mark Sheldon?
@CSharpAJ: How all sabremetrics are crap. It was really sad.
Wearing their little propeller hats. “Mercy” Those are fightin’ words to a certain group of “elite” Baseball fans. T’was funny though.
@Richard Fitch: Fair point.
Leake at 70 pitches through 6 innings. Outside shot at a CG.
Leake got a bad call there. That pitch was strike three not ball four. Clearly in the strike zone on GameDay.
OK, steady on, big Mike.
Needed that DP. One pitch to the pinch hitter.
Ondrusek warming up? That would make me bear down if I was Leake.
Brandon Phillips is putting on a tour de force of his defensive skills tonight.
Mistake pitch. Inside fastball.
Can’t ask more of Mike Leake than this tonight. ?
Right?
Brantley said Sanchez was fouling off all those pitches waiting for an inside pitch, and Leake gave it to him. I have to believe if Hanigan was behind the plate Sanchez would never had seen an inside pitch. Those are the kind of things that make you realize just how valuable Hanny is to this team. Not saying Hanny should be playing tonight, heck if Frazier needs a day off now and again surely a mere mortal does.
You said it. Imagine if Hanigan wasn’t there to manage this staff. I mean, it’s not like we have the Nationals’ staff, who are outstanding up and down. Without Ryan, the bullpen gets taxed and who know what happens.
In my Baseball Utopia: Stubbs would be a DF. Designated Fielder.
Why is Logan Ondrusek in this game right now?
Extra inning game last night…
I thought we were done worrying about Ondrusek for the rest of the season. At least it looks like Dusty is starting to lose patience with him finally. Hopefully Dusty was just giving him one last chance to prove himself and he just failed.
Okay, the Big Virginian is in. (and I’m not talking about Chad Dotson, for all you in the Nation that think he can affect a Reds’ victory, or not).
Does anyone else think Thom reads this site and the says the exact opposite of the collective thinking here, just to troll us? That’s got to be why he loves bunts and the quality start stat.
I like both also, but I know I am in the minority..
Atta boy Scotty!
Scott Rolen. Huzzah!
Its now 5-3 Reds bot. 8th How bout that kid Rolen, a solo shot, bad back and all. Go Reds!!!
Kenny Powers’ brother sighting in the stands again tonight.
@dc937:
Same shirt, howling, and everything, just like last night. What is this guy? Our “Rally ____” …what? He’s not a monkey, or a squirrel. But we’ve won two-in-a-row…any suggestions?
Valdez!!!!!!!!!!
My god Valdez is on FIRE. Third time on base tonight. Looks like we’ve found our new full time shortstop Dusty.
No brawl tonight?
They sure are into that howling. Pretty odd….
Woooo is the new wave…thank you Ric Flair…
If the announcers are insistent n pushing this howling thing….how about we call it the Rally Howl ™?
It’d probably be called the Rebel Howl if we were a state or two south.
@dc937: Kenny Powers?
Kenny…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenny_Powers
@Sergeant2: http://t.co/CXtKmULl (picture here)
Thom needs to quit over-analyzing the Ric Flair Woooooooooooo. He has now connected Jonathan Broxton, Ozzy Osbourne, and the fans sending a message to Dusty Baker together as the explanation. Someone please just tell him….
I kind of like the howl. It is simultaneously annoying and unique.
Break out the brooms tomorrow. We’re so slumpy it’s amazing.
Magic number: 11
That Broxton trade is starting to look like a genius move now
TOBTTR!
Broxton could stand to lose about 30 lbs
@seat101: Thanks for the info.
Wooooooo!
“Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going. Wooooo!”
Styling and profiling all night long..
@dc937: Thanks for info. I was wondering why they kept showing that guy.
Another good win for the Reds, might as well sweep em now. Go Reds! Adios Amigos.
Woooooooo!
Woooooooo! @newtonrm: You can say that again.
Hey the Wooooooo sure beats the Tommyhawk chop.
“Space Mountain may be the oldest ride in the park, but it has the longest line. Wooooooo!”
I think it’s sort of funny that Thom and Chris like the “howl”. Although Thom really was stretching for something when trying to figure out how it started.
Awesome win. GO REDS!
“Does anyone else think Thom reads this site and the says the exact opposite of the collective thinking here, just to troll us? ”
I think Thom has had some issues more with the Reds Reporter dudes than this site. He’s even mentioned in on the air.
It probably started when the Pirates fans came to town actually, they did it first a week ago:
http://deadspin.com/5940688/pnc-park-rings-with-ric-flair-wooos-as-pirates-fans-liven-up-game-with-impromptu-nature-boy-calls