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Let’s recap tonight’s titanic struggle….
FINAL
Cincinnati 1
Houston 2
W: W. Lopez (6-3)
L: S. Marshall (4-5)
BOX SCORE
POSITIVES
–Eight strong innings for Homer Bailey: one run allowed on three hits. Homer struck out nine and walked one. Excellent outing.
–Jay Bruce and Scott Rolen each doubled and walked.
NEGATIVES
–With the game tied, two outs, bottom of the ninth…Wilson Valdez let a routine ground ball go through his legs like a Little Leaguer. Game over. A brilliant outing by Homer wasted.
–The offense was bad, and Sean Marshall enabled Valdez.
–The only reason Valdez was in the game is because Brandon Phillips had been ejected earlier in the game. BP went nuts after the home plate umpire ruled that he didn’t check his swing and refused to allow Phillips to appeal to the first base ump. I don’t ever remember BP getting excited like that.
NOT-SO-RANDOM THOUGHTS
–The Reds are still 8.5 games up. Keep that in mind. I guess.
–What a gut punch of a loss. Sarcasm always makes us feel better, though:
With all the great things Valdez has contributed to the Reds this year, you just have to cut him some slack.
— Chris Garber (@cgarber8) September 2, 2012
–It happens. The Redlegs get back on the horse tomorrow afternoon.
Source: FanGraphs
You can’t win them all. Still its the Astros u would have thought a sweep would have happended.
Who ever said cut Valdez some slack, should have stopped at cut Valdez.
I’ve been watching little leaguers. They make that play or they dont play 2B. Exxon Valdez must go. I do not want him anywhere near a playoff game.
Chad, as I asked you on twitter, please stop insulting my little leaguers!
After further thought I’m not going to criticize Dusty for leaving Marshall in the game. If Marshall can’t take care of the Astros, who can he take of. Having said that I still like Marshall, always have. I like the thought of having Marshall in the bullpen in the playoffs. He struggled tonight, but by all rights he should have got out of that inning without any runs scoring.
The reason Marshall was left in is solely (IMO) because he was leading off the next inning, and Dusty Baker did not want to use both Marshall and Hoover in the 9th and lose Hoover, and he didn’t want to double switch.
Good point. But, there are still others in the pen. It didn’t have to be Hoover.
The Reds have an 8.5 game leadm just a reminder if anybody thinks the season is over now.
no, of course the season’s not over, but I’d just hate to see the Reds have to double-switch in a tight postseason game and see Valdez or Cairo in there. That’s the ONE thing Valdez especially is supposed to bring to the table, defense.
Something told me going into this series that the Reds weren’t going to sweep. Even a team like the Astros has to win once and a while.
Some reds fans need to chill out and get a grip…
I decided I wasn’t even going to watch the bottom of the 9th because I just had a feeling about Marshall tonight.
I’ll repeat my opinion I have voiced before. In effect, the man is a left handed version of Nick Massett. At 0-1 with two outs and the winning run at second base, you shouldn’t be trying to wrap a curve ball around a batter’s ankle. On the road, it is a huge risk, too huge in my mind, to use him after the 7th inning of a tied game.
Why not?
I think a lot of Reds fans have a bad feeling about Marshall every game, but only voice it when he does poorly. That said, I am an advocate for trying to dump his 5M salary after the season and use it to sign Ludwick.
The rest of the post is very hard to understand. You shouldn’t be trying to throw a curve ball low and in? Is that one in the “book” somewhere?
And why is it ok to use him at home, but not on the road, after the 7th inning. Please educate me. Why would the home/road make any difference?
@vegastypo: I am with u there why Wilson Valdez is on this team, I have no idea. That is a situation the Reds want to aviod.
The Astros are a bad team, the worst in baseball – but they’ve won 41 times, 30% of their games. There’s a silly assumption that a bad record means that they cannot possibly win a game, ever.
Marshall got two outs, gave up a double, an intentional walk to load the bases, and hit a guy in the foot with a pitch, right? Then a perfect ground ball RIGHT to Valdez that should have been an out. It was an error on the fielder. It seems silly to blame Sean Marshall. Marshall did exactly what they asked him to do, the fielding let him down.
Phillips, Rolen, Cozart, they’re all known for their defense but they have all made fielding errors in the past.
I thought Marshall was left in because they trusted him to get through the inning, which he would have done if it were not for the fielding error. JJ Hoover has also allowed baserunners since his return. When you’re heading into extra innings it’s silly to try to burn through relievers fast.
Get rid of the pitching in order to buy hitting and hope it works out. That isn’t a formula for success. Prioritizing hitting over fielding is why the Reds have had so many losing seasons behind them. Sean Marshall is the only credible, reputable, and/or above average veteran pitcher the Reds have on the team.
He’s on the team because they wanted a veteran utility infielder with playoff experience on the bench, somebody who can fill multiple roles and be a good influence on young players like Cozart. Similar reason to having Edgar Renteria. And Orlando Cabrera. Fortunately Valdez has usually done reasonably well in whatever role they’ve asked him to fill.
@Hank Aarons Teammate: I don’t want him pitching when I don’t have any guaranteed outs left to me on offense; or if I have I just 3 and will face a closer in a must score situation if Marshall allows a run.
I don’t want anybody trying to wrap the ball around the hitters’ ankles when a wild pitch/ passed ball will move the winning run to 3B. Remember the sage line LaSorda used to spout about 13 (or 11 or 12) ways to score a run from 3B without a hit. Tonight we saw one of them.
The remark likening Marshall to Massett in effect is that despite being capable of being very good, Massett had a knack of finding ways to give up crucial runs, often much like tonight from a situation of extremely low leverage (i.e. 2 outs and nobody on tonight).
This is a little more understandable I guess but still really, really convoluted. Good teams have multiple good relievers. I can’t believe one would be willing to pitch a guy you don’t think is any good because you have 6 outs to get a run instead of 3. You’re very likely to lose down by 1 in the 8th inning.
I can’t believe that you would want to tell guys to pitch to avoid a wild pitch. That’s really a bad idea. So for example Arredondo shouldn’t throw any split finger pitches in the situation Marshall threw the low and in curve? You want to have guys avoid their best pitch because of the possibility of a wild pitch? The Reds staff has 32 wild pitches all year. Marshall has 1. Should they worry about wild pitches. The staff in general, I mean.
@Hank Aarons Teammate: And I have said in that in general I don’t want a primarily breaking ball pitcher throwing in the 8th and 9th.
Why? None of this really makes sense to me.
I want my best pitchers in the important situations. Whoever that is, however they get people out. If Marshall isn’t the best, don’t pitch him. If he is, pitch him.
It seems that on many nights, the Reds are judged individually and collectively on their most recent effort. It’s simply too harsh. Marshall didn’t exactly get knocked around tonight. On any given night:
Nobody has any confidence in Marshall.
Nobody has any confidence in Arredondo.
Ondrusek is no good.
Bray is no good.
Masset was never any good, even when he was healthy.
The Broxton deal is still TO BE DECIDED.
I’m afraid to guess what I’ll read when Chapman has consecutive bad outings.
Our bullpen is 2nd in the majors behind the Rays in ERA, but we’re basket cases each night they aren’t flawless.
You’re up next, Alfredo. Duck.
I could not agree more.
I never said I did not have confidence in Marshall. I just didn’t understand the “he can’t pitch in this specific inning because he’s a curveball pitcher” type of thinking. My desire to trade him has to do with his salary for his role, which is not a performance issue.
Looking at the 2012 season, most of the pen has been good; Chapman has been great, and Ondrusek has been ineffective yet lucky. And Ondrusek, Dusty Baker willing, won’t even be on the postseason roster. The pen has struggled somewhat lately, but slumps happen.
Marshall induced a easy ground ball to second, right?
He got charged with the loss for giving up an unearned run. You’d think he was pitching wildly and hanging pitches over the middle of the plate… but actually he pitched fine.
@Hank Aarons Teammate: I’ve heard both Welch and Brantley say a number of times that having a man on third pretty much takes away the low breaking ball that finishes in the dirt.
Comparing a splitter in the dirt to a breaking ball in the dirt is comparing apples and oranges. Again, as Welch often explains, because of the difference in the rotation rate, if a catcher is squared on a low splitter he should be able to contain it. However a catcher can do every thing right and still have a low breaking pitch bounce off him and away from him.
A manager or coach at the MLB level shouldn’t have to tell pitchers not to throw wild pitches. They should have the situational awareness on their own and be in touch enough with their stuff on a given night to know what they can do and not do given the situation.
So if you are a curveball pitcher, throw the curveball low but not in the dirt. Your/Brantley’s analysis doesn’t hold water given that Marshall has 1 wild pitch and Simon, who throw a lot of splitters, has 9. The InterWeb tells me that since becoming a full-time reliever Marshall has all of 2 wild pitches.
Still, your central point was that Marshall should not throw a low and in curveball with 1st and 2nd because it might lead to a wild pitch that might then lead to an inability for Marshall to throw a low and in curveball without risking another wild pitch to lose the game. All this for a guy that has 1 wild pitch this year.
Have you considered that maybe you are overthinking this?
@Richard Fitch: I don’t think I’ve ever said Massett or Bray or Marshall were never any good. However in my opinion all three of them are what I would call fair weather pitchers. As long as nothing goes wrong by theirs or anybody else’s doing, they are capable of doing very well and often do so. However all 3 of them seem to have issues drawing the line in the sand and pitching under duress after they give up a hit or a walk or have fielding issues behind them.
I actually like Arrendondo. He seems to keep coming right at folks. Some nights it works and some nights it doesn’t.
Marshall has had only 4 or 5 bad outings that I can remember. It sucks we lost, but we are seriously being critical of the best bullpen in the National League over one run by one guy on one out of 162 games when other second basemen usually field that ball.
I’m not going to moan about this. I’m going to hope the Reds win tomorrow and Votto comes back Monday and lights up the scoreboard.
The Reds’ bullpen blew the game by giving up 0 earned runs, resulting in concerns, PANIC!
@OhioJim:
@Hank Aarons Teammate:
I’m lost by the coversation that you two are having. At least one of you doesn’t seem to like seeing pitchers throw breaking pitches? Somebody doesn’t approve of pitches outside of the strike zone? Yikes, I’m glad Bryan Price makes the pitching decisions for the Reds.
It seems like Marshall hasn’t been quite as good as his numbers show this year.
My brother and I were talking about Drew Stubbs. We both think they are just hoping Stubbs breaks out and gets hot at the right time. I don’t think it’s really worth getting upset with Baker’s logic (he is somewhat stubborn on this certain topic!) on batting Stubbs at the top of the order, but it seems like Rolen,Frazier, or Hannigan would be more logical hitting second, especially when Votto comes back.
Stubbs defense is nice to have, but it seems that the bigger problem is batting him 2nd in the order. Baker is so afraid of losing his defense, but I just hope he uses some common sense and puts him down in the order to stay as September draws on.
That might be the better solution than replacing him with Heisey. I actually like Heisey a lot, but if they want the better defense it makes sense hiding Stubbs down in the order a bit.
This team is having such a good season, but I feel like a Yankees or Red Sox fan. Like the playoffs is all that matters. I’m going to try and enjoy the rest of the season!
I just hope they don’t have to face the Cardinals in the playoffs. I think that’d be a bad matchup for the Reds.
@redsfanman: I like well placed breaking balls that buckle hitters’ knees for called strikes (like the one Marshal threw for srike 1 to the guy he hit). I like the ones that get batters to pop out or roll over into innocent ground balls.
I don’t like trying to wrap one around a batter’s ankles at 0-1 with the winning run at 2nd base. Even if it doesn’t hit the guy or become a wild pitch, unless the guy swings, you’ve evened the count for him and in Marshal’s case are most likely looking at trying to get a strike with your 2nd best pitch, i.e. his fastball.
@redsfanman: I said that it’s ridiculous to worry about pitchers throwing wild pitches with a guy on 2nd base.
@OhioJim: While I admit your comment prompted me to chime in, it wasn’t just about your remarks about Marshall. It just seems like collectively, we can’t agree that anyone is consistently reliable except Chapman.
And that’s silly, given that our bullpen is 2nd in the majors. We seem to vividly remember every failure these guys have, but never process the outings where they are successful.
What other explanation is there?
@redsfanman: First, I did not say that I don’t trust Marshall. But there is no doubt that in general Dusty Baker does not trust him to face an array of right-handed hitters. Are you actually disputing that, given the pattern we’ve seen Dusty Baker use with Marshall the last couple months? Marshall was removed in a very similar situation against that fearsome team, the Cubs, with Soriano coming up (for Ondrusek, no less, and then he was also taken out the next day, for Lecure). He was removed last week against the Phils for Lecure in another similar situation. Are you suggesting that all of a sudden Dusty Baker has changed his pattern? Again, I am simply referencing the manager, not my own views. I’m not saying he never faces right handed hitters, but in important situations, he rarely does.
And because of this, yes, I think they should if possible dump a 5 million dollar contract for a guy who is trusted to get out lefties. You constantly have this pitching/defense for hitting mantra, which is completely beside the point here. We’re talking about a relief pitcher, not a starter, versus a position player who in large part is responsible for the excellent play in Votto’s absence. IF it’s true that by keeping Marshall they’d lose Ludwick, are you saying that you’d keep Marshall? A reliever? With a budget of around 80 million, you can’t keep Sean Marshalls at the expense of possibly not keeping impact players like Ludwick, or for example, eventually Cueto. After 2014, when the budget of the team is maybe 90 million, Cueto is going to cost over 20 million per year (see: Matt Cain’s contract, and Cueto is better than Cain). You don’t have the luxury of Sean Marshall at 5 million (or, by then, an equivalent reliever/role player/whatever) when you need to keep the team core together. Aroldis Chapman? Sure, he’s a freak. I’ll pay 5 large for him. Marshall is going to need to be replaced, if possible, with a different lefty who’s perhaps not quite as good, but costs under a million bucks. Or the budget will have to be increased to 90 million. I think Ludwick is going to have a big, fat, payday for 2013, and the idea I’ve seen floated that he might re-sign for the amount of his mutual option (5 million) seems a fantasy. If I understand his dollar value so far this year it’s around 12 million, from Fangraphs. Even taking Rolen off the books, it won’t be enough. It’s not that I want to kick a good relief guy to the curb, it’s that this isn’t the Yankees.
I’d just appreciate it if you didn’t constantly take what is written and twist it into something that you can then get on your high horse with your often condescending attitude. I don’t really care if you think my views are stupid, but at least you could read them and not make up the interpretation that leads to you flinging around how dumb I or other people must be. Sometimes we actually do think through things.
I don’t see a battle of Marshall vs Ludwick but I think Ryan Ludwick would be much easier for the Reds to replace next season than Sean Marshall. LF is probably the easiest position on the field to fill. Reliable setup men or lefties who strike out over a batter an inning while rarely walking batters or giving up homeruns… they’re hard to find. The worst thing Sean Marshall has done this season was pitch on a team where he’s overshadowed by Aroldis Chapman. I think he’d have done a fine job closing otherwise.
I’ve seen Marshall pitch full innings lots of times, Saturday wasn’t the first time.
Fangraphs values Ryan Ludwick at $12m? Maybe that’s what he’d get as a free agent but I definitely don’t think he’s worth nearly that much to the Cincinnati Reds. Not with Todd Frazier in the mix. Outfielders practically grow on trees. If Ludwick turns down his $5m option for 2013 I think the Reds would be smarter to sign another washed up veteran like they did with Ludwick and Gomes. Cincinnati isn’t a tough place to lure hitters.
I didn’t say you were dumb, and I don’t think I implied anybody else was either.
@redsfanman: Yes, Marshall has pitched a full inning a number of times. I would need to go back and look carefully, but it seems like he is pulled with anyone on base if a righty is coming up. The right handers in the pen are not treated that way.
I don’t know that Ludwick will get in free agency the value he’s put up this year. But he’s going to get a lot more than 5 million. If he qualified he’d be 10th in OPS+. The left field position has not exactly produced for the Reds. In 2010 and 2011 the primary left fielder had an OPS+ right around 100, which is below average for a corner OF. In 2009, Gomes had his really good year, but only part time. The average OPS+ from the position was around 115.
Maybe the scrap heap option is the right one, but I don’t think we should pretend that the chance of getting another Ludwick is high.
As for Marshall, the walk rate is low though I don’t know how much better it is than a typical reliever. Better for sure, though. His K rate is 11 per 9, but the league average is well over 8 for relievers. His HR rate is probably very good, though I don’t know what reliever average is. All in all, you have to compare Ludwick to the scrap heap OF versus Marshall to what you could get to be your lefty reliever. I’m typically of the mind that it’s easier to fill the bullpen role, though I admit the cash for Ludwick might be extreme and make that a bad option. Overall, I am thinking of a guy like Randy Choate, who was dumped to LA in the Ramirez trade. He makes 1.25 million this year and would excel in the role of lefty specialist. The guy murders lefties. Sean Burnett (2 million) is another.
I don’t care what production the Reds got out of LF in 2010 or 2011. There’s an assumption that the ‘scrap heap option’ is bad but it frequently pays off for the Reds. Heisey will be back. Lots of corner OFs, 3Bs, or guys capable of converting will become free agents. Maybe some team will be willing to trade a OF or 3b to the Reds. Cincinnati is an ideal destination for any power hitter who wants to perform well. Either way if Ludwick turns down his $5m option I think the Reds can find reasonably priced options elsewhere. The team’s priority is pitching and defense, not power hitting corner outfielders.
In replacing Sean Marshall we’re not talking about filling a bullpen role as we would with, say, Logan Ondrusek, Billy Bray, or Sam LeCure – where you can throw any AAA pitcher into the role. Marshall is a very successful and experienced late innings setupman who I think makes a decent closer, two roles most relievers aren’t suitable for. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Reds add a lefty specialist so Marshall could return to a bigger role.
Eh, what an awful win.
In regards to the dump Marshall for Ludwick…I see it as dump all these useless veterans and take the contracts of H Rod, Didi, and other AAA players to avoid signing a useless veteran (aka Valdez, Cairo) for multi million dollar deals and pay them all a million together to sit the bench.
That’s my idea. That will free up salary for Luddy and allow us to keep our big pieces (minus Broxton). I don’t expect Broxton to be here next year unless the market for him drops dead and he takes a 2 million dollar deal.
No reason the Reds bench next year won’t consist of Heisey, Didi, H Rod, Mesoraco, and a corner infielder. No need for Cairo, Valdez, Taveras, Orlando Cabrera types, etc.
Grow from within and avoid the veterans.
@rfay00: I mean loss. I guess I am use to typing “win” versus “loss”. Can’t complain there.
Go Reds.
@rfay00: Valdez makes about $900k, Cairo $1m. The more they play, the more I see that they weren’t signed for their offense OR their defense. We’re back to veteran crustiness, but honestly I can’t see how their veteran leadership can’t be taken up by Rolen, Phillips, Arroyo, Hanigan, etc. This is still a young team, but c’mon. I’d much rather see them cut the deadwood and let the young guys play. They won’t save a bunch of money that way, relatively speaking, but that’s not really the point.
I’d also keep an outfielder just on the chance that Ludwick regresses. Guy’s been a stud this year, but I remember how he worked out for the Pirates and Padres.
I WILL cut Valdez some slack because despite his blunder this loss isn’t on him. If the Reds’ offense had appeared at any point in that game Valdez’s error is meaningless (or maybe doesn’t happen at all). If opposing pitchers hold your team to one run you’re not going to win many games, regardless of how your defense plays.
This is what I have said before, this is still a team game. Some on here blaming Marshall (pitching), but it was Valdez who let the ball go through (defense). But, you have to blame the offense, as well, for only scoring one run. This was a game lost by the team, not just Marshall nor Valdez.
Not that errors weren’t made. Marshall did plunk a guy. Valdez did let the ball go through. No offense. And, I still wonder how Baker can have Stubbs batting that high in the order, much less starting.
Never going to understand the Marshall moaning that crops up. The guy is a fantastic reliever and has been money for us all year long. He had a shaky outing his last time out and then last night he pitches more than well enough to get us through that inning and MValdezP throws that effort away. You can point at the offense or BP getting tossed if you’re looking for blame but Marshall did his job.
So let me get this straight: Marshall gives up a double, hits another guy to put him on base, and you say Marshall “did his job”?
That’s a real shut down reliever, alright.
I don’t know, what’s his job? Maybe you could spell out the job of the major league reliever. Is the expectation that a reliever never allow a baserunner?
Sure.
His job is to put himself in position to succeed.
Putting 2 runners on base when the game is tied is not putting yourself in position to succeed.
Simple, no?
Well, then maybe the Reds should cut Marshall and give his job to one of the huge group of relievers, on the Reds or on other teams, that do not allow baserunners when the game is tied.
I have favored trying to dump Marshall’s contract, but it’s apparent that you are starting from a deep-seated dislike of Marshall and then working backwards to make your point. I have a deep-seated dislike of Valdez, but one can work forwards to make that point.
I saw Marshall get two outs, give up a double, intentionally walk a batter (because the guy on 1st didn’t matter in a tie game) before hitting a guy with a low and inside pitch. Then what did he do? Did he give up a hit? No, he got what should have been the third out. His job was to get three outs before giving up a run, and in my opinion he did HIS share of that. A fielding error isn’t Marshall’s fault, that’s why his ERA went down.
Marshall, Valdez…meh. Why the heck is Stubbs starting & still batting 2nd? I want to see the Lineup when Votto returns. That’ll be the acid test for me with Dusty. We can not go into the Playoffs with Stubbs near the top of the order…can we? He’s the weak link!
Honestly, I’m sort of getting over it, sort of putting it in the realm of, “Dusty’s just been stupid with this his entire reign here. Tavaras, Patterson, Harris, Gomes, Stubbs, others. We all pick our favorites. Managers are human beings like us. So, they will pick their favorites. It seems like Baker’s favorites are the underachievers. Not underdogs but underachievers.
Valdez now has three errors this season. In twice the number of innings played as Cueto, he has one less error. And if you look at our fielding percentage numbers, pitchers always top the list (they’re last on the fielding priority list with catchers and usually only field grounders hit at them and the occasional line drive).
Valdez is also ahead of Rolen in terms of fielding percentage. I’m not arguing he’s a better defender, just pointing out that he has only three errors and it happens to everyone. The timing of this one is obviously more glaring than most, but I would still trust Valdez in a playoff game.
And, while I realize Cairo and Valdez have basically become clones of one another, wouldn’t everyone on here rather have two dependable, if not exceptional, veterans as backups? It certainly beats running out Felipe Lopez, Encarnacion, and Dunn on one side of the field (as starters!), as well as having some of our other recent backups (I’m sorry, but Janish is what, one step faster and nothing else?). I’ll happily let these two mark time until Gregorious and Hamilton (CF/utility) arrive, rather than return to the days of old where we didn’t field much of anything.
My answer is “absolutely not”. That’s the way Dusty Baker thinks, that they are two dependable but not exceptional backups. The way I think they are two not dependable and horrible backups. I felt this way before the game, so it’s got nothing to do with the error last night.
At 3B, by the way, Valdez has 20 chances and 2 errors. I agree that Rolen’s defense is overrated, he’s just not that good any more (not bad, just not good) on defense. But do you ever want Valdez playing 3B instead of Rolen? Not a chance for me.
There was a comment earlier that other players make errors too, not just Valdez, in response to people worrying that Valdez might be double switched in in a playoff game.
But the fact that everyone makes errors is beside the point. Valdez provides zero offense and mediocre at best defense. He’s worse than Phillips or Cozart at their positions, by a good bit. He couldn’t possibly be a candidate to take over at 3rd if Rolen is, say, pinch run for or banged up, as Frazier is on the team.
So why would you ever carry Wilson Valdez on a postseason roster? What value does he add to the team? If the answer is that he can bunt, that can’t be a reason to keep a guy on the roster. It’s a job that a pitcher can do pinch hitting.
The Reds are 4-1 on their 6 game road trip and get their MVP back tomorrow.
Have you ever taken a trip somewhere you were really excited about going to? Maybe someplace exciting and exotic. And then you get stuck on the plane with an obnoxious somebody who complains the whole time. You know the type, they whine about everything, they don’t like their seat, the food’s no good, the coffee’s cold, the flight attendant is not friendly enough. And just when you think they have finally wound down, they start all over again and repeat the same things, over and over and over. They can’t just look out the window and enjoy the ride. They are the half-empty glass kind of person and they have to make sure that everybody around them is as miserable and negative as they are.
Well that is what is like here
EVERY!
SINGLE!
DAY!
Reds win 20 – 0 …………. complaints and whining about the same things over and over.
Reds lose 1-0 ……………. even more complaints and whining
Reds have best record in baseball, up by 8 1/2 games with 28 to go? That’s not important, let’s find something to complain about, let’s put down “our” players on “our” team. “We” have to something about some of these sorry clowns that are destroying “our” team. Let’s make sure these guys on “our” team know that we don’t have their back.
I swear I think half the people here are the kind that boo little leaguers.
This is the best site by far to come to and talk about the Reds. Are you sure you’re not talking about cincinnati.com or even reds.com? I read the comments there sometimes and I am amazed at what “fans” say. Sure there is negativity here occasionaly but that’s to be expected when fans talk about their team. We all love the Reds and this season but we still get frustrated.
@K: You’re right about this probably being the better site, it is why I started coming here, but the negativity is still ridiculous. Read the comments for today’s game. Same ol’ same ol’. The thing that really bothers me is how they throw “we” and “our team” around and then they are constantly throwing players, “their team mates”, “under the bus”. I won’t even go there with the comments about the manager. I wouldn’t have them on my team, they would be a cancer. I don’t really believe in Karma and such, but I often wonder how the fan negativity and lack of support for some of the team effects the players. They are aware of it. Criticism is one thing but a lot of what goes on is just mean spirited.