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The Reds will try to avoid the sweep at the hands of the Brew Crew this afternoon. It’ll be up to Mat Latos.
Are you concerned about the Reds? I’m not happy about three losses in a row, but we’re still talking about a first place team with their best player out of the lineup. I’m pretty darn happy with Cincinnati’s position right now.
That said, I don’t have any interest in seeing this losing streak extended to four games. Discuss the game here. Go Redlegs.
Ryan Hanigan was removed early from last night’s game and Mesoraco is set to be activated tomorrow… and Navarro is starting? I hope Hanigan is alright.
Go Redlegs.
ARGH!!! The Brew Crew is starting a LH pitcher today. That is good news. But then again Mr. Baker feels the need to step in and make his seat of the pants adjustments.
Chris Heisey CF
Wilson Valdez SS
Brandon Phillips 2B
Jay Bruce RF
Ryan Ludwick LF
Todd Frazier 3B
Miguel Cairo 1B
Dioner Navarro C
Mat Latos P
Drew Stubbs simply kills LHP. His split is so lopsided it borders on absurd (or screams platoon!). Much of his success during his recent surge has been attributable to facing LHP. Heisey has less of an absurd split, but he definitely favors RHP vs LHP, so what does Mr. baker,in his limited wisdon do? Of course, sit Stubbs and hit Heisey against the LHP. Ugh…
If only the probable pitchers were known in advance. Then Baker could have played Heisey last night and Stubbs today. Not taking advantage of Stubbs against a LHP is just mind boggling. So is batting Valdez ahead of Frazier. Maybe we shouldn’t criticize Baker. All he did was get the platoon split backwards. He has a lot of other things on his mind.
I hope Brandon can get his stroke back on track. I applaud the decision to keep Votto on the DL until he is fully ready and can avoid any setback ralated to his knee injury. I really don’t understand the Reds’ reluctance to utilize the DL except for absolutely obvious scenarios, usually related to surgery. Getting Brandon back early has limited his ability both defensively and offensively, even after he came back. Using the DL would allow the Reds to bring in a replacement infielder nor only while Brandon was completely unavailable, but also allow Brandon to get back to full capability before reentering the lineup.
According to the video, the #1 Food NEVER to Eat is whole grains. Sorry to spoil it for you.
I hope 3-6 can get back on the horse today because the front and back of that lineup is less than formidable.
The word ‘disgusted’ comes to mind when I think of Cairo getting another in what has been multiple starts and now doing so simultaneously with Valdez even though Phillips is back?!
Stubbs might hit lefties well — but not this lefty, necessarily.
Just playing devil’s advocate…
How have the Reds hitters done against Randy Wolf in the past 5 years? Stubbs is 2/11. Chris Heisey is 0/4. Rolen is 2/17. Valdez is 3/8. Cozart is 1/4. Jay Bruce is 9/22 against this lefty.
Maybe Dusty looked and saw that Stubbs hasn’t had great success against Wolf in the past, despite what some of you assumed with the lefty-righty matchup.
@renbutler:
@redsfanman:
Last time I checked, 2/11 (.182) was INFINITELY better than 0/4 (.000)! When using such minute sample size, almost any result can be obtained. The sample size used to obtain the RH/LH splits for Stubbs and Heisey are large enough to be statistically significant.
Game results: Heisey 0/2 with a weak combacker to the pitcher & a SO. That makes Heisey now 0/6 against this pitcher.
@BloodyHo: In the D-man’s defense. Stubbs had two of the worst ABs I’ve seen him have in a while. First time up he takes a straight fastball right over the heart of the plate for strike three. Last AB, he swings at a pitch, for strike three, that was a foot and a half outside.
2/11 doesn’t imply that Stubbs has hit well against Wolf and doesn’t demonstrate that giving him today off is some sort of missed opportunity for him to excel. He’s getting a day off, the Reds will survive without him, you’ll survive without him. I guessed questioning Navarro is off the table after he hit that homerun but Heisey will be set for criticism until he does something.
Curious if there has been any word on when Mez is coming off DL and when appeal is going to be? If they are separate times, won’t it create a roster problem since Navarro will not be able to be recalled so soon? Unless they send down whoever they are planning to when Votto gets back now. That should be interesting. X-man is making it difficult, although that is who goes I would guess.
Corky Miller and Dioner Navarro are both on the 40 man roster, just one is better known for catching and calling games (Corky) and the other for hitting (Navarro). I doubt many fans care which one of the two is on the team at any given time.
I could be wrong, but I don’t believe Corky Miller is currently on the Reds 40 man. Neither was Navarro, they had to drop Constanza to add him before bringing him up. So, they will either need to drop someone else from the 40 man to add Corky or leave Navarro up and send someone else down until Mez returns.
Stubbs career split OPS: RHP (.685) LHP (.847)
Heisey career split OPS: RHP (.815) LHP (.618)
In case you were wondering, Heisey is 0-4 career against Wolf.
On the positive side, instead of the Manager getting the splits backwards, maybe Stubbs hurt his shoulder on that diving catch last night.
That’s not all that positive. I’ll take a stubborn lineup manager over an injured CF.
I should have used the sarcasm font.
I don’t see us losing today. Just no way.
I just happened to catch a bit of Dusty on the WLW pregame show, he was saying something about the Reds bats being too tired to hit right now? I think Marty was asking a polite version of “What on earth is this lineup???”
Dusty Baker continues to be nuts.
I had a terrible nightmare last night. I was reading Redleg Nation and noticed the headline: “Season Officially Over: Votto Needs Additional Surgery.” So, congrats RLN for making it into my dreams, but next time let’s make it a headline about the Reds winning the World Series or something along those lines.
Have I mentioned Baker is nuts?
I hope the AAA lineup today doesn’t make Randy Wolf look like Cy Young.
Third inning:
Cairo .163 (single)
Navarro .167 (homer)
Latos .143 (single)
I think we should be more worried about the big-league lineup right now…
I don’t feel like figuring it out, but I wonder how many games this season the Reds have had the leadoff man on in the first inning. My guess is 15.
Valdez (the #2 hitter with the .259 OBP) swung at a 1-0 pitch. Wolf threw 12 pitches. Absolutely no adjustments made after last night’s fiasco.
Valdez just took five straight pitches before swinging at #6. Better?
Three times better.
Is that a certain someone I see in the first row again tonight?
Oh you mean Front Row Amy, wearing the dark really low cut top and wearing sunglasses, kinda looks likes she’s peaking out from behind two mountains, is she at the game, I hadn’t noticed.
Laughed so hard people came rushing to my office to see what they missed.
Er, today even. Stupid day games.
Fay: Votto slid today before the game, which is a big step. Big mental barrier to get over. But I’d be surprised if they would change their stance (that Votto won’t play on the road trip).
Brantley: Votto slides on his left knee, which has to create some hesitancy.
Fay: Dusty has maintained all along Votto won’t play this road trip. But the offense has been off recently.
Marty: If the Reds were to lose today it wouldn’t surprise me if he played in Chicago on Friday.
Fay: Mesoraco eligible to come off today, but didn’t. Will catch the first two games in Chicago. Hanigan getting a rest today which will be three games.
Marty: Dusty is concerned about keeping the team fresh. But harder to do when offense struggles.
Fay: Getting Votto back will make a world of difference. Hardest out in the lineup every night.
Brantley: Emotional lift as well.
Fay: Guess that Masset will pitch tomorrow again in AAA.
Brantley: September 1 deadline is important to see what he can do before the playoff roster has to be set.
Marty: They won’t want to upset the chemistry the bullpen. They’ll bring him up on September 1 (misunderstanding the playoff roster rule).
Brantley: If you want him for the playoffs, it has to be before Sept 1.
Marty: Oh, OK. Well then it will be before Sept. 1.
It would be great if we could score a run. I think that might win it.
What do you guys think will happen with Masset? If he is activated soon, who do you think will be sent down?
@zippy:
Wolf is much less effective second and third time through the order. We should start seeing some hits here shortly.
@zippy: I’m with you.
Cairo! At least I don’t have to stress about a perfect game today.
that single may have just doubled Cairo’s second half OPS.
Cairo 4 for his last 12. Heating up…
Bingo!
Navarro!?!
@seat101: I think it’s time for someone to start selling “I’m with Zippy” t-shirts. We could all split the profits.
Did I just see a home run?!
Navarro home run!!! Cairo on board!!! Baker is a freakin’ genius!!!!
Must be… time to tee off on Randy Wolf.
Send Navarro down.
Here they come.
Latos: lead-off hitter?
Brantley drives me crazy on his play by play. He says Cairo hit a “line drive flare.” Well which was it, Jeff. A line drive or a flare. Please get him over to TV!!!!
Yo Navarro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was expecting a Latos HR after that.. only a single. Bench Latos.
7,8,9 spots!!! Getting it done. I like Navarro.
Oh.. wait.
Navarro homers with Cairo on base. Baker is a genius.
Just like they planned it.
I hate it when those players who don’t contribute and need to be DFA’ed go out and do something..how dare they do that…
@zippy:
We need a lawyer to tell us if we are allowed to use it. We could give the profit, if any, to RN’s favourite charity.
@seat101: Maybe we could offer to contribute the profits to the team, so long as they agree to spend it on a stronger bench.
Come on Jay pitch in here.
Uh 3 innings and 1 hit ( by our pitcher) and 4 Dreds KKKK. These dudes need to learn a lesson from King Latos for sure !
live look-in on mlb.com
Way to hustle baby!
Nice leisurely jog to first.
@zippy: He’s not getting paid enough to run out ground balls. Miserable.
Bruce
Fail
@zippy:
How about an extra scout in Texas. We lost our Texas Super Scout to a better offer last year.
Pirates are underdogs at home tonight (Kennedy vs. Correia). Correia gets the spot start since they have 20 games in 20 days. A day game win today would be big to put pressure on them for tonight.
Stubbs should replace Bruce right now.
OOPs, looked at the wrong time- Sorry 2 runs and 4 hits! Now that is more like it and good old Bruce is fading fast. JB needs to wake up when his team needs him to pick up JVotto
@zippy: You betcha.
@seat101: I say we go for it this year, which means getting a proven hitter for the bench. We can raise money for scouts in the off-season.
I’ll scout Hawaii all you guys want if you’re paying.
@zippy: Or convince Jay Bruce to give it his all every single pitch. Jeez that kind of stuff just fries me.
@TC: A laugh a day keeps the Blues away.
I really think Baker missed an opportunity there. Put in Stubbs for Bruce, send a message that laziness is unacceptable, and you’re not necessarily hurting your chances in this game.
Wait, how is Jay Bruce lazy?
@wally mo: Are watching or listening to this game?
He’s had a couple of those in the field this year as well, one of which cost us a game. He’s gotten worse in the field this year.
@BloodyHo: Trust me, I understand about sample size. I don’t need that lecture for the 100th time. It doesn’t change what I said.
They showed a video of Votto running bases and sliding preparing for his return. He did not look like he was holding back either. I believe he’ll be back sooner rather then later. He looked really, really good.
The Reds need to get Votto back just so they can give Frasier a break.
Good old boy Todd, I think he is tired! He seems to be out of it and tries to hit at everything. Go Big Boy!
Who is this Braun guy in the Crew’s lineup? What a dead weight around their neck. They should DFA this dude and call up someone who can get the bat on the ball.
Scouting report on the mlb game day is very funny— pitcher so and so -this is his 45th, his effectiveness may be slipping away but the pitcher pitchs a complete game. Or when a pitcher is having problem throwing curve and a runner on third base– The pitcher sure has a confidence in his catcher and throw that curve into the dirt.:lol:
The 5th will start the 3rd time through the order for the Reds against Wolf. Time to make some hay!!!
The 6th inning will be the third time the regular players (Phillips, Bruce, ludwick, Frazier) face Wolf… rather than the utility players, backup, and pitcher.
So far this Takashi guy is a pest . Is he related to Choo of the Indians?
I don’t think all Japanese are related, just like not all Americans are related. FDA!
@RedForever: Classic!
Latos 2-2, crazy stuff.
So many hard outs in this series.
Latos must drink a lot of Brewers beer- another hit for King Latos. Wolf must want him to run on bases so he can get tired!
Good old Valdez -his neck will get worse with that K swing.
Wilson Valdez might be in danger of getting the old DFA. He has been just terrible as of late.
Who goes when Joey comes back?
You can be sure they’re not dumping their backup shortstop. Cairo will probably have a mysterious injury forcing him to the DL until an extra roster spot appears in September.
Frazier is the man. Nice play.
(T)here’s s(O)mething wrong with thi(S) lineup when Mat Latos has two consecutive hits and some position players have none.
Latos (.163) now has a higher batting average than the 7 hitter (Cairo, .162) and 8 hitter (Navarro, .143). So far they are the offensive stars of the game.
What is up with the Reds swinging at high fastballs out of the zone over the last 2 games, especially to guys that barely hit 90 on the gun? Strange…
@RedForever:
Choo is Korean.
Even better.
He didn’t say he was lazy. He said he was lazy on that play and he was.
Yeah, all I said is that Baker should send a message that laziness isn’t acceptable. I wasn’t making a blanket statement about Bruce’s work ethic, but there was an awful lot of laziness displayed on that jog to first.
@Mwv:
You’re on you own.
@CharlotteNCRedsFan: Watching. What’s he done now to offend the nation?
I haven’t seen anything that upset me, and I usually think it’s pretty classless for people sitting on office chairs and couches to call pro-athletes lazy, but that’s just me I guess.
@wally mo: Sorry, I’m Old School. I like when guys run out ground balls. Hate that it rubs you the wrong way. By the way, I do hustle in my job.
Ok, not trying to add fuel to the fire.. honest question here. If what Bruce did there bothered you guys so much then why do BP and Cueto get free passes from you, who do the same thing with far greater frequency? I’ve been on these threads all year and I do not recall any mention of them not hustling, could be my bad memory but I really do not recall it.
Cueto is a pitcher. BP has been nursing leg injuries.
I’m talking about BP all year though, even when healthy. I see him give up on first base on grounders quite often. I can understand giving Cueto a free pass because he’s a pitcher, really only used him as an example because he’s the very definition of lack of hustle on any grounder.
If so, then Baker should have taken him out the first time he did it, sent a message early on, and maybe Bruce would have reached base today. I’m not protecting BP. I’m saying Baker doesn’t demand 100% from these guys, and they know it.
Ok, really not trying to give anyone a hard time about it. Just to me there have been numerous other guys doing similar things on grounders and it was a little odd to see Bruce called out on it so vehemently.
@Mwv: I must have missed them. I don’t think I’m known for playing favorites.
@Mwv:
BP was hurt. His manager told him to jog to first. Cuetois a Pitcher.
I have said that about Phillips. To me a pitcher is different if he’s trying to conserve his energy to pitch.
@zippy:
I would buy 3 of them
@CharlotteNCRedsFan:
The “player’s manager” needs to woodshed Bruce!
Geez, you guys have lost it. Are you talking about when Bruce got tagged out at first? Woodshed?
Cincy fans do have a reputation for caring about “hustle” more than talent, but this seems a little extreme.
@wally mo:
Really? I think most ML Managers would take a player like Bruce on a play like that to the woodshed.
@seat101: Remember Billy Martin taking Reggie out of game, mid-inning, when he loafed on a fly ball? One of the great Billy Martin moments. Mr. Jackson didn’t care for that too much but I bet Martin got the message across.
It’s “extreme” to expect guys to run hard to first when they hit a grounder? Even without the bad throw, that would have been a relatively close play if Bruce is hustling. If that’s what “extreme” means, then I think this must be the laziest team in the history of baseball.
Wolf threw and Ephus pitch to BP…. I wonder what was that . Is it like Pedro Boubon( RIP)
slow blooping pitch
@CharlotteNCRedsFan: He did run. Maybe he didn’t run as fast as he possibly could the whole way, but the throw beat him by 5 steps, it’s not like it was a close play.
And I’m sure you do hustle at your job, I would never say that you were lazy because I don’t know what you do. You don’t know what these guys go through, so seems like the same thing to me.
Reds averaging 2 runs per game over their last 4 games so they are right on their average.
That might be the first time I’ve seen Ludwick go the other way.
Jay Bruce need another day in the pan to thaw out . he has been thick like an iceburg lately when his tema needs him. Bruce can’t still do well under pressur for sure. He still doesn’ t put fear into Pitchers in this league.
Latos at 71 pitches through five innings. Looking like 7 innings from him and two from the bullpen.
Hopefully I’m still right about my Latos prediction on last night’s recap thread. Bruce, on the other hand…Dusty might have to sit him in the Thinking Box for a spell. Or, send him to an Outward Bound course.
This seems promising. But I’ve been teased by these situations before.
Ha, according to Fox Sports Ohio, Miguel Cairo is warming up in the bullpen.
Cairo doesn’t get the runner in from third, swings at the first pitch after a walk.
When you’re as good a hitter as Cairo, you don’t want to settle for an RBI walk.
Miguel, Miguel can’t you wait!
Cairo swings at the first pitch. Why?
@CharlotteNCRedsFan:
I had forgotte. Thanks for the memory.
How much would it take to acquire Aoki from the Brewers?
That hurt a bit.
That was an amazing play by Ramirez. Prevented at least two runs. Twice in this series Navarro has been robbed of extra bases with bases loaded.
Wow- I gave Good old Wolf a credit and ?? to those hitters can’t get a run in with less than two
outs.
“Free Pass” is redundant, right?
No way, have you seen the prices at King’s Island?
I guess I’ll have to watch the play again since it seems to have half of you all worked up.
What I saw was a player who doesn’t have a reputation for loafing, who goes out and lays out for balls all the time etc, running at about the same speed most big leaguers do on routine grounders to second.
It’s not like Bruce stopped half way.
@Mwv: If I see BP, Votto or the Great One pull that move, I promise I will call them on it. Multiple wrongs do not equal a right. Basic stuff.
When you’re as good a hitter as Cairo, you don’t want to settle for an RBI walk.
Are you kidding…?
Sarcasm font.
A lot of the Reds don’t run out balls to first base, including Votto, especially when the play is in front of them at 1B or 2B. The only guy who does every time is Drew Stubbs.
Dusty Baker made a decision to tolerate it long ago. I don’t agree with it, but that’s what he’s done.
You certainly shouldn’t single out Jay Bruce for that play today.
Baker is a player’s manager and that’s part of what it means.
Yeah, this is what I was trying to say I guess. Thanks Steve.
@Steve Mancuso: And the only reason Stubbs does is that he’s the only one with half a chance to beat them out WITH a bad throw.
When asked about his lineup today, pre-game, Dusty boasted about his resume in the past, post-season accomplishments, etc. b/c he “rested” key players. I’m sure Bruce (or others) get a pass from Dusty for not running it out, if he hasn’t given them a day off in, say, 4-5 days. He’s starting them, but “resting” them in his own way.
@Steve Mancuso: Well, we will just have to pay better attention then. Maybe in a 10-zip game, maybe. But darn it, when your team can hardly score a run lately and your own butt has been dragging, is it too much to ask a guy to hustle it up?
Last comment from me on the subject. It seems no minds will be changed either way.
I agree with you totally. If I was the manager, I’d demand that Bruce had been bustin’ it down the first base line on that play and he might have been safe. As you say, especially when the offense has been so challenged. Every runner counts.
My point was just to say that Bruce wasn’t do anything that the others don’t do. Phillips is the worst about it and not just when he’s hurt. The only reason the Bruce play really stood out today was that the throw was off.
Heisey didn’t even jump! To the woodshed with him!
Latos just owns Braun.
Rats!
Gomez Hr Puff and Stuff! This gave the Brewers a thought thatthey were in the game because the Reds fail to score big and put the game away. Stupid and Stupid and Stupid.
Super Todd has made a number of outstanding plays at 3B today.
For the record: I’m not singling out Bruce or putting any special emphasis on that play. It got attention because Bruce might have beaten it out if he’d been running, and all I’m saying is that it would have been a good opportunity for Baker to send a message. My point, really, is that Baker NEVER sends a message, and that play was a particularly good opportunity to do it. Team has looked like they’re in a fog for two days, Stubbs is available, Bruce has just made an out (so his spot isn’t due up soon), and his lack of hustle was obvious and may have cost us a baserunner. It was a “perfect storm” for Baker to make a statement, and, as usual, he chose not to.
And I’m not disagreeing with that. But if Baker had chosen that moment to make a statement he would have looked hypocritical and inconsistent. He needs to have a team meeting to say it isn’t acceptable to slow down when the play is in front of you.
In fact, it infuriates me to watch Baker tolerate it. I watch it game after game after game from my seat.
Dustman needs to get someone warm up . The first batter of the Brewers will be a big out or it can ended the day of Latos’ work. Dust man seems to be like a Sandman!
It’s a sad day in Redsland when someone makes a comment that a player should have run hard on a ground ball and then has to defend that statement as if he’s being totally unreasonable.
Latos should play every day.
Or maybe not.
Matt Latos is the President. 2 singles and 1 walk. I hope his mates will not let him down.
Latos.
Aoki even makes an out on a ball he can’t get to. He’s made more good defensive plays this series than any other player I can remember.
Starting to push the players to run more after Votto and Phillips have missed a lot of time with leg/knee injuries doesn’t seem like a superb idea.
Latos wasn’t hustling on that. Should have slid, head first.
I was waiting for it.
H-Z is just did a stupid thing> Woww. The dude just walk our pitcher and he force him out. What a dude?
Wow, nice slide.
@Steve Mancuso: I guess, lurking behind my statement was an implied “and he should have been talking about this all season so it wouldn’t look arbitrary when he made an example of Bruce.”
Nice take out slide by Heisey. I’m not sure if he was going to throw it to first, but he ended up having no choice.
Safe to say Wilson Valdez isn’t the greatest #2 hitter of all time. Or of any time.
Valdez tried real hard to end that inning.
I can’t beleieve there was no bunting in that situation. Valdez just had to hit at every Dang Ball. What was he trying to proof ?
I guess I’m the only one, but I just don’t think Bruce (or anyone else in that situation) did anything wrong.
He would have been out if he had been running as hard as he could. I know it doesn’t fit with your idea of hustle, but it’s true, he would have been out.
I guess there’s the “do it for the kids argument,” but the kids have enough coaches in their lives. It’s a hard game with a long season, and if Bruce stays a little bit more fresh not running his hardest on every play that’s an out 99.999% of the time, that seems totally fine with me.
It just seems like a principle that’s been agreed on without much logic to it.
Latos at 88 pitches. This will probably be his last unless he has a quick one.
Latos 2 for 2 w/ a walk. Heisey and Valdez 0 for 8.
With Latos’ strong offensive game, he now has a higher avg and obp than Cairo…
Res O is really having a tough time of it. Hope Mat & Co can hold the Crew off for a couple more innings. Latos just keeping getting more impressive as the season rolls on.
Sandman is having a nice nap instead of managing . He probably tells his players not to perform hard and tries to force uncle Bob to extend his contract. Just a theory!
Reds O (that is).
@wally mo:
I agree with you. I think it’s the nature of a baseball gameday thread to make a bigger deal out of little things that are more often than not, insignificant.
I can’t believe Dusty actually had the nerve to put this lineup on the field. Especially in the midst of a 3 game losing streak. He might be a player’s manager and they may love playing for him but he is a horrible manager.
End rant.
In an interview today he was talking about how he has a history of keeping his players healthy and rested into September. Not being afraid to put a lineup like this, with bench players, on the field is part of why the regulars are well rested.
@wally mo: I’m really not convinced he’d have been out. But it doesn’t matter. You never know what’s going to happen on a ground ball, so you run hard. It isn’t all that rare to see guys reach first on grounders that looked like sure outs when they left the bat. It’s a pretty basic concept to run everything out, and I don’t think it’s asking too much of these extremely well-paid professional athletes (especially the non-pitchers) to sprint 90 feet a few times over the course of 3 hours.
Not defending Dusty here, but, this team was MUCH more aggressive running the base path in 2010, and, we know the results. A Division Championship and a knock-out in the first round. I wonder how that has tempered him into thinking he needs to save all these guys’ strength for the postseason? Side note, Axford is up in the bullpen. Yes.
The team’s second best base stealer, Brandon Phillips, just missed a bunch of games for leg problems for the second time this year. Overall i don’t think the baserunning was more aggressive in 2010, you’re just searching for things to complain about now.
I don’t really think of Brandon as a base stealer any more. In 2010, he was thrown out 12 out of 30 attempts.
I don’t think of Phillips as a base stealer either, but he’s the second best one on the Reds anyway. That’s just the type of guys they have on the roster rather than part of the managing.
How am I complaining? I was simply pointing out that Dusty may have backed off the idea of stealing bases, going 1st to 3rd, etc, esp. w/ a winning record, in order to preserve the overall stamina of the team. Jeesh, even when you attempt to defend Dusty on these boards, you’re taken to task, for not being pro-Dusty enough.
Has he backed off the idea of stealing bases or going 1st to 3rd? Or is that just something you’re watching today and forgetting from 2010? I don’t think much, if anything, has changed with the team’s baserunning over recent seasons, for better or worse.
Dusty said it in the preseason, that was something they needed to get back to, after 2011. Maybe Dusty stressed it, and the team didn’t listen. Maybe Dusty backed off. Maybe you’re right. BP is the sole difference maker between the 2010 Reds baserunning and the 2012.
@RedForever: I think Choo is a Korean
Masterful performance by Mat if that’s it for him. Young man’s looking tough!
To this point in the game, Latos’ last two starts the Reds have scored 5 runs. One a fluke inside-the-park homer, two on Latos’ homer, and two on Navarro’s homer with Cairo on base. And somehow he could win both games.
@RedForever:
He’s actually won the 20th most games in baseball history. That is to say, the entire history of baseball. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that he must be doing something right. Do his lineups occasionally perplex me? Of course, but I think day to day lineups are a very small part of a baseball manager’s job. And I agree, he does have a lot of balls to throw out a lineup like this, and I think that only helps his team realize the faith that he has in all of his guys. He knows it takes every last guy to have a successful season, as he has had many, many times.
Of course, I sure would like to see us do something in the playoffs. That may be a different story. We shall see, but I am cautiously optimistic.
@zippy: The only argument against it is just the wear and tear over the course of a long season. I’m not convinced that sprinting on routine grounders to 2nd, for a hole year, would even net you one extra base per season.
So it just comes down to the balance. The wear and tear probably isn’t much, but it’s something. The extra bases probably aren’t much, but going as hard as you can every time would eventually get you an extra base.
Since I have no idea how hard it is to play this game at this level, I generally defer to the players who have to do it, unless a guy gets a rap for actually being lazy, which Bruce does not have.
When we were in the era of Griffey and Dunn’s Lazyboys in the clubhouse, or last year’s Red Sox drinking during the games, then something like this seems like a symptom of something serious.
For Bruce it seems like a reasonable exchange to me. 1 base per year for slightly fresher legs.
It’s 90 feet, a couple of times a game at most. These guys are professional athletes. Trying just a little bit harder on the off chance that it will help the team win the game versus keeping the legs fresh by not running a couple of extra yards every few days? That is a ridiculous argument. You get yelled at for not running out grounders in little league, you should get yelled at for not doing it in big league. I guess baseball players just really that lazy and slow compared to basketball/soccer/and even football players. Think about how much a lineman has to run cumulatively during a game. I think Bruce can manage to sprint 90 feet.
I think this is what it comes down to for most people. Little league = big league.
Also, can you describe to me Jay Bruce’s daily workout regimen to me? If not, then you have no idea what he does day to day, or whether extra sprinting would make a difference over the course of the season.
Or let me ask you this. Why do you think Bruce wouldn’t run that ball out as hard as he could? He obviously wants to win right? So what reason could he have? If you can’t come up with anything better, I think my explanation makes the most sense.
I’d say virtually everyone in sports “wants to win.” So, by that logic, almost nobody in sports has ever been lazy.
One question; how many WS has he won? It’s the only thing that counts, in the end. Sparky played the guys like dogs in 1970s and IMO, he had far better results.
Good hustle by Jay. Almost beat out that grounder.
Bruce ran that one out all the way. Maybe someone said something to him. Or maybe he realized it on his own.
Bruce ran hard on that grounder. Maybe someone suggested it to him?
@Steve Mancuso: Do you have any proof you’re not me?
Jay Bruce is a mistake for the REds to pay him that much money. He si practically useless about 40%-50% of the times , I would say. A streak hitter is not a good hitter.
Yes, yes and yes.
7, 8 and 9 coming to bat for the Reds. C’mon Reds lets get some runs. Go RedS !!!
@wally mo: You’re aware of how well Rose performed in the post-season? And he wasn’t exactly the most fit man in America.
@Jmac84: Dusty has also LOST the 20th most games of any manager. Total wins don’t exactly tell the whole story, you know?
The wins tell that teams have stuck with him as manager a lot longer than they would with any of us. Part of his appeal is that he’s a former player who knows how to both play and manage. We can yell from the seats that he’s dumb and his players are lazy.
Atta-boy to Jay. I hope he came to that decision on his own even though it doesn’t matter a wit. Maybe Latos had a word with the young slugger.
@CharlotteNCRedsFan: Sand man might win WS it this year, I hope. Just hoping.
@Bumbum: Me too, my friend.
@zippy: We really have been right in line today.
@wally mo: And Sparky Anderson is #9 on that list. Not the best response, IMO.
@wally mo: We’ve also seen Bruce give up hits and extra bases by not hustling in the outfield. Again, I don’t mean to single him out, because a lot of guys have the same attitude, but the “conserve your strength” approach has cost a lot more than one base. You’ve got to MAKE the post-season before you can worry about being strong for the post-season. I’d rather seem them swept in the first round of the playoffs than finish the season 3 games behind the Pirates and Cardinals.
See, now I think this is BS. I don’t remember seeing Bruce ever dog it in the outfield, so now it seems like you’re just looking for anything to win an argument.
Sure he’s made errors, but that’s not the same as not caring. I watch every game and I see Bruce going after it hard in the outfield all the time.
@wally mo:
And Connie Mack has the most loses (and wins), Sparky 7th most loses (6th most wins), Larussa 4th most loses (3rd most wins) and so on. The point is, all those guys kept getting jobs, didn’t they? He’s also top 30 in win percentage, ahead of guys like Jim Leyland, Lou Pinella, Casey Stengel and Connie Mack. He is a far, far better manager than most Reds fans give him credit for, period.
Great performance by Latos and hopefully a win . . . but seriously: TOS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Big first out. Broxton really battled back!
@zippy: Guys are different you know? Compare anyone to “Charlie Hustle” and they look sort of lazy. But have you ever talked to Pete Rose? He’s also sort of crazy. His hustle wasn’t just him trying hard, he was sort of crazy.
He was also smaller, hit totally differently, etc
I don’t know. Until you can prove that sprinting on every routine grounder to second gets you a significant amount of extra bases in a season, I see it as a non-issue.
It has no impact on the game, except that fans are offended by it. It always comes down to “I didn’t pay hard earned money to see some millionaire jog to first.” And that’s a fine opinion if what you paid for was to see guys run fast.
I like to see my team play winning baseball, and as far as I can tell, this has nothing to do with winning (or as close to nothing as to be approximated by nothing), so what do I care?
@Jmac84: I 100% disagree. I think he’s about the worst manager I’ve ever seen manage a baseball game. Lot’s of bad managers keep getting jobs. That proves nothing to me.
This segura kid puts a big fight but Broxton came back and lined him out. He will be a good hitter for a long time I think. If Reds batters had learned something form him is to make the pitcher pitches and not hacking at every Dang Balls. Most of the tiems is a Big Out.
@Jmac84: winning is not the only evluative metric for measuring the success of a manager.
Also the asterik that applies to Bonds attaches to the success of those Giants teams to an extent.
Hustle and maximum effort, not only produce postive results but also create a winning attitude. While there is luck in baseball, you create a lot of luck with hustle and effort. I have seen these last 2 months a lot of hustle and attitude. That being said…lazing down the 1st base line sucks! Its hard to turn that off.
@wally mo: Until you can prove that players who play hard all the time are weaker performers in the post-season, I don’t see why you’d want to err on the side of jogging to first. Perhaps I’m wrong, but I think Morgan, Griffey, and most of the rest of the guys on those 70s teams generally ran pretty hard on most grounders. I don’t remember seeing Morgan jogging to first much.
Nayorichika is tough on the Reds. Someone needs to send him Sakes with a lot Pepto in them
It feels like Aoki has been a real thorn in the Reds side this series . . .
Does anyone know why they aren’t bunting over runners? Small ball is dead?
@wally mo: Never seen Bruce dog it in RF on defense??? Boy, you don’t watch many games then. Rarely do you see Bruce hustle to a ball hit in the corner. Rarely do you see Bruce hustle at all in the OF. He has a phobia about hitting the wall. I think after he broke his wrist a few seasons back diving for a ball he changed alot on defense.
@wally mo: I’ve seen it with my very own eyes, in person. I’ve watched him jog toward a ball and have it hit 5 feet in front of him. I’ve watched him drift back on a ball instead of sprinting back the way outfielders are supposed to, and then miss it because he’s drifting and feeling for the wall, which lost the game. Are you calling me a liar?
Geez. Sensitive much? Am I calling you a liar?
My guess would be that we have seen the same plays and inerpretted them differently. You seem to have a lot of focus on this aspect of the game, so maybe (just maybe) you read a little too much into what you think is a lack of hustle.
Or maybe I don’t give enough credit to the idea that these guys are just fat lazy millionaires who don’t care about winning, and don’t try, and I overlook all the horrible lazy plays he makes.
Or maybe I’m calling you a liar. I guess it’s up to you.
Call me crazy, but sometimes I react negatively when people write “See, now I think this is BS. I don’t remember seeing Bruce ever dog it in the outfield, so now it seems like you’re just looking for anything to win an argument.”
If you’re going to say things like that, I’m not sure how you can be so shocked when someone suggests you’re calling them a liar.
What a dope on that play- E?
@rightsaidred: That’s what a good leadoff hitter does. Unfortunately, those words have never been uttered by an opponent of the Reds this season.
@Steve Mancuso: Yes but we needed to sit at least two starters (3?) simultaneously to avoid this sweep . . .
Whole new ballgame. Damn. Aoki is killing us.
Another one is bitting the dust.
Cozart makes that play, without a doubt.
You’re not suggesting putting your best SS on the field to protect a lead, are you?
From what I’ve seen, Broxton’s slider is awful.
gggggggggggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
you see how small ball works? This team is done
This bad offense is killing this team.
Navaro sucks!
Dioner Navarro – SMH. This guy has theoretically cost this team pivotal runs in two games now. Way to make everyone forget about your homer!
Tow stoel bases . What the heck these Reds were doing these three days- Brewer Beer is good for them! Make them like a Zombi!
Wow, Navarro’s defense looks rough this inning, although Valdez looks pretty bad as well.
At least Chapman will be well rested for the next game.
This one is the the sign that Baker needs to go! He Start to SSSS again.
Can we just leave Milwaukee now?
I hate everything
My sentiments exactly. This was a game that everyone except Latos wanted to lose . . .
He just said that Broxton is charged with a blown save. How can you blow a save in the 8th?
@zippy: No that is only for the OF. Nevermind that pulling Cairo and Valdez (moving Frazier) would have all been advisable.
4 straight loses and fading fast. You guys still think the Reds will still be in first come next Monday?
We have to hope for a lot of help.
The Brewers are a bad team that is above average at home. The Reds should be bailed out by the stupid Cubs this weekend. I will reserve my ‘sky is falling’ emotions until the end of the next series.
Yes. I don’t see an 8 game losing streak on the way.
If the Pirates win 5 straight and the Reds just win 1 of 4 in Chicago, the Pirates will be in first come Monday morning.
Right now, winning 1 of 4 would actually be a success.
I don’t have a good feeling about this team going down the stretch. We just don’t seem to have the “it” factor.
why would you bring a new pitcher in to start off with an ibb?
Because He’s a deep thinker…
It doesn’t apply in this case; but you do it if the on deck batter is someone they might pinch hit for that way if they do you can make a pitching change because the current one would have already pitched to 1 batter.
I will not let a game ruin my day. Repeat as necessary. Honestly, this is how I expected the team to play after losing Votto so it is some consolation that they didn’t start playing this way until he is about to return.
@zippy: So what is “lazy” then, that’s what I’m asking. If you acknowledge that he wants to win, and cares about the game, then what would his motivation be for not doing everything he could?
All I’m saying is it’s possible that there’s some purpose to it that we, as not players, dont understand.
If I really have to explain why humans sometimes don’t do everything in their power to achieve their goals, then I think we’ve got deeper problems here than just baseball.
I don’t get replacing Broxton with Ondrusek. Aoki’s ball was a swinging bunt. Gomez’s hit was two inches above the SS glove and a soft line drive. And Braun’s hit was just well placed, but not hit hard. Dusty really over-estimates Ondrusek.
Navarro’s defense has been really, really bad both yesterday and today.
Baker ssss as usual. He can’t never win a Big win with this kind of attiude. I think it is time for Uncle Walt and Uncle Bob kick his rear end and wake up. He went back in making a dumb decisio again. It seems to me that and old dog can’t learn a new trick. The man is cursed by SF and Cubbies and now with the Reds. May be He wants to be the manger of the dodger -his old favorite team.
@zippy: Welp, then I guess you pick option 3.
Cairo/Navarro/Stubbs to finish. Likey.
Lots of blame to go around, but you have to say that the decision to play the reserves today, all the way through the end of the game, may have been a factor.
I understand resting players, and that’s one area where I think Baker has a lot of valuable experience to draw on.
Just saying that coming off three straight losses, it might have called for something else.
It would have been nice to see Cozart and Hanigan in there for defense that inning.
Nice? how bout smart!
Pinch hitting for Cairo is a good call.
Also would have been when he was up with the bases loaded and one out.
Ok Heisey, a double will do it easily . . .
Now Latos knows how JC feels. This was a Cueto lineup if I ever saw one.
That was a frustrating inning. I hope Votto comes back the minute he is ready.
33,788 on hand for the Reds titanic struggle.
THis one is on Baker the Dustman. Latos probably cursed him quitely. Once again , his manager was outsmarted by the Brewers.
Marshall > Broxton.
Not even debatable.
Steve Mancuso: Using Marshall on Aoki would have made the most sense but it was not an obvious decision.
Broxton is in line for a tough luck loss.
The defensive substitutions would have made WAY more sense in the infield over the OF considering Broxton looks to be a GB pitcher . . .
Did anyone else just see bruce having a great time in dugout while were about to lose???????????????
He and Ludwick and another fella were just smiling and having a good ole time
I don’t get Bruce and Ludwick laughing in the dugout when they are about to get swept by the Brewers? Maybe they have the right perspective? (no sarcasm intended).
@nvilleredsfan: It’s all good.
Lighten up fellows take a lead from Luds and Bruce.
Remember, a fish rots from the head down.
Come on Drew, get a hold of one here.
2 Ks and o on.
Who the heck is Jim Henderson?
26th round pick out of Tennessee Wesleyan in 2003 by the Expos.
Their version of Todd Redmond is trying to strike out the side. TOS!!!
Steal?
Time for a dinger from Heisey… heck, I’d settle for a double.
This game is on Broxton not Baker. First 2 outs, then 2 runs? Sometimes, crap happens.
No, it’s not. This game is on the Reds’ offense, or lack thereof. In this live-ball era if your pitchers combine to give up only 3 runs you need to find a way to win that game. Period.
The Brewers got some fluke hits against Broxton, but the Reds should have had at least another couple runs on the board going into the ninth. What was their average with RISP today? .000? How many excellent scoring opportunities did they waste?
Watching the Reds bat these days is like watching a poodle do calculus.
This is sarcasm, right?
Rolen and Cozart on the left side, the inning is over before a single run scores. Hannigan in for the last two innings and it probably doesn’t happen either.
In a one run game it makes more sense to substitute defense in the most critical spots: SS and C were more undermanned than CF.
We desperately need some Chris Heisey magic right here.
First time I have ever seen front row Amy stand up, and yes she is the total package. hubba hubba.
@Sergeant2: I’d be willing to part with a level C prospect and front row season tickets for her, if she would move to Cincy and be the Reds #1 fan.
single might tie this…
Fixed it. A single would have been an oasis of offense for this team. They are the Sahara right now and it was nonsensical to play the two worst offensive players on the team simultaneously in response.
@hydeman:
I’m glad that they can keep things in perspective better than a lot of our fans.
Yeesh, Heisey looks like a regular Zach Cozart at the leadoff spot . .
We have gotten punk’d out the last 2 nights by a reliever than couldn’t even make the 2012 Baseball Prospectus book of 1600! players………….pathetic!
Well, we HAVE to at LEAST split the Cubs series, right?
Reds just in a funk right now. It isn’t like the Brewers tore the cover off the ball. Good luck on their side and bad defense on the Reds. Let’s hope the Pirates lose a couple until they get out of it.
Positive: Latos pitched a good game.
As far as I can say: The Reds need to have a long and thorough evaluation on Baker’s mangaing the Reds next year. I would say “No” evn if he takes them to the playoff. If not , it is time to let his crummy ??? walk!
Bad luck in the 8th. All three “hits” were soft, soft, soft. Can’t blame Broxton for that.
Navarro for the bad throw to second and the failure to throw on the second SB. Those were important.
Yes you can blame Broxton- Gomez’s was a pitch up on a 2-0 count; Broxton has him 0-2 and gets the pitch down instead it’s an out. Braun’s was off the end of the bat; BUT the pitch was up- if it’s down at the knees it’s a pop up.
Not good getting swept there. The fact they they couldn’t get to Wolf or a fairly weak Brewers bullpen isn’t good either. Add in that the Brewers were just swept by the Cards and you can’t be feeling too good. Considering what happened to Boston and Atlanta last year and what the Cards did last year, I’m a little worried. Of course the Dusty haters would be happy because a clapse would almost insure his not being resigned.
I hope the Reds can get back in their groove in Chigago.
@LWBlogger: You almost have it there but just missed it. We would rather win to be sure but if we do lose and miss the playoffs, the silver lining would be the axing of Mr. Baker.
UGH!!
I don’t think it’s a huge deal in the grand scheme of things but wasting 7 innings of 1 run ball while making a bad pitcher look decent is always frustrating. Add to it a lineup that looked like an invitation for a broom and I am sour . . .
It’s not as bad as it seems……it’s just not as good as it seemed.
@Steve Mancuso: Agreed. They weren’t exactly lighting Broxton up.
Ugh. Earlier in the season it felt like the Reds gave away a lot of games late. Now that feeling returns. I understand about resting players, but resting so many when you have your best pitching matchup of the series and are on the verge of getting swept. At least put in Cozart and Hanigan in the 8th.
Had he done so, I totally believe the Reds would have won this game.
@Redgoggles: Baker should have yanked him out but he just wanted to beat another horse to death. Broxton worked sevral games already since he came to the Reds. Baker said that we now have a new arm to breaak it in . I hope thata the Reds Fire Baker the sooner the better. He SSSSS everywhere he went so far. Ship him back to the Dodgers.
The good news is the Reds will not be coming back to Milwaukee this season, although they will end the season playing the Brewers at GABP. Off to Wrigley Field tomorrow and a chance to regroup against the Cubbies. Go Reds!!! Time to get back on track.
@Redgoggles: Little ball has way to win the game and hard ball gets caught> So that is not the way to say that the Brewers were stupid . However, The REDs were stupid!
And here again is the argument (well, one of many) against designating anyone a “closer.” How many close games will they lose without their best relief pitcher throwing a single pitch?
Great point. The true save was in the eighth after Aoki was aboard. Why not use him against Gomez who is much weaker against lefties?
@Steve Mancuso: It is not luck. It was the hitting skill which the other teams seems to learn how to use more the Reds hitter. They want to hack at every Dang Ball to get a hit or a HR. They don’t bunt , thye don’t run and they are outplayed when they want to L the game. Today is the example -only Latos wanted to win. Baker SSSS as usual. He has come back to his old self again. This is going to be baaaaad.
They have 4 with the Cubs they will be all right, just need to hit. The top of the order has to do a better job.
@LWBlogger: No excuse for getting swept by the Brewers but the Cardinals sweep was at home, the Reds just swept the Brewers at home. Also the Cardinals did not face Gallardo or Fiers. The Cards did beat up on Randy Wolfe, as the Reds should have.
All the Statistics-Checking/1990s Team-Comparision-ing/Dusty-hating/Dusty-loving/Reds-Are-Doomed-Predicting/Reds-Are-2012 WS CHAMPS-Celebrating fools aside. It is just baseball. Nobody knows what is going to happen. And if you don’t believe me, ask how many of you saw the Cards going all the way last year, at this time?
@RedForever: I’m keeping track of that quote, as well as your earlier dire precdictions. Right or wrong, it will be posted next Monday.
@rightsaidred:
Do u really think they will only win 1 out of 4 against the Cubs?
And by “ninth” I meant “eighth” in my post above. Sigh.
@CharlotteNCRedsFan: Sorry, that was a bit of a cheap shot. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that the Dusty haters want the Reds to lose. My point was that if the Reds do fade, it is an almost certainty that Dusty would be gone.
@LWBlogger: And I do hate Baker or anyone else but if they blow this and miss the playoffs, he will deserve his fate.
@Larry1980: I think you meant ot respond to “redforever” aka “reduntiltheystartlosing”.
Only one against the Cubs would be shocking. Anything less than a split would be alarming to me. I like the idea of playing angry against a decimated team and sweeping them.
@wildwestLV: Strange game baseball. Strange game indeed.
@RedZeppelin: Agreed that the Reds offense more to blame than anything else. I had a bad feeling after they couldn’t cash in on Wolfe with the bases loaded and one out. Should have had more than 2 runs against Wolfe and the Brewer pen.
DO NOT HATE!!!! Major missing word there. Excuse me.
@rightsaidred: I agree about the Cubs series. Look who will be pitching for them. The Reds winning only 1 of 4 from the Cubs would be worse than getting swept by the Brewers.
Yes we caught the Brewers (a good team at home) angry from coming off an embarrassing road trip. We then fumbled away the last game with bad defense and suspect management (starters and subsitions). There is no reason we can the same frustration the Brewers passed along to us and go for all four against the Cubs.
This is EXACTLY what we need to do. Best post/thought I’ve read all day. Thank you. And GO REDS!
Ha, and anybody thinking that if the 2012 Reds make/miss/ get knocked out of the playoffs means Dusty’s dismissal: I live about 330 miles from the San Diego Chargers and Norv Turner. Wait, most of you guys live within 30 miles of the Cincinnati Bengals & Marvin Lewis. Nevermind.
I’m not piling on Broxton, just not blaming Baker for making the right decisions to put him in. One more out in the eighth, Chapman in the ninth and the O gets a (small) pass. Broxton didn’t do his job. It happens. You cannot say for sure that if Stubbs/Cozart played instead of Heisey/Valdez that they would have done any better. TOS today, but that is going to happen over the course of the season. What really sucks today is that the bullpen blew a late lead. Let’s stop the bleeding in CHI, shall we?
Agree with you on the winning resuming in Wrigley but keeping Dioner in the game was borderline negligence. I am guessing Hannigan would have had to come in to the 9th anyway to catch Chappy so why leave in a defensive liability for another inning?
Broxton was not sharp. But the Reds had two excellent lefty relievers in their pen for Aoki (a lefty) or Gomez (bad against lefties).