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FINAL:
Pittsburgh 4
Cincinnati 5
W: J. Broxton (1-0)
L: J. Hughes (2-1)
S: A. Chapman (25)
BOX SCORE
THE GOOD
–Timely hitting–again. Scott Rolen got a key opposite field hit with two outs to bring in 2 runs and stake the Reds early–and of course, that triple later.
–The Bullpen. Sean Marshall pitches a clean 7th inning and the new 8th inning guy, Jonathan Broxton keeps getting it done.
–Play of the Day: Miguel Cairo makes like Brandon Phillips to steal a hit away and end the 8th inning, much to the chagrin of Pedro Alvarez.
–The Cardinals keep winning, but can’t pick up ground. The best record in baseball. The beat rolls on.
THE BAD
–Mike Leake at GABP. Tonight: 6 IP, 6 H, 4 ER, 7 K, 1 BB, 1 HBP. Leake just hasn’t been pitching well at home this season.
THE UGLY
–The Hacktastic Approach was back as the Reds were swinging at anything and everything tonight early, despite the well-documented problems McDonald has had lately.
NOT-SO-RANDOM THOUGHTS
–Scott Rolen. When he slid head first into third in the 8th, 41,000 people in attendance were thinking of You Know Who. At the All Star break, there probably weren’t 10 people who thought Scott had anything left–and that’s counting his family. Yet, all of us were wrong. When Votto comes back, Frazier’s playing time is sure to decrease, which is a problem. But a nice one to have. You have to hand it to Rolen. There is something burning deep inside that guy.
–The Pirates: They came in today looking to turn Chapman’s HBP of McCutchen last night into some sort of indignant form of motivation. By the end of the game, Jared Hughes’ frustration level showed as he tagged out Navarro with… um, a little extra emphasis. For a long time, the Reds haven’t handled the Pirates well. This weekend, it looks like the Reds have clearly gotten into the Buccos’ heads. The lead is now 5 1/2 games. The boys in yellow and black can’t afford to fall further behind. Expect to see some fireworks tomorrow.
–I don’t know what to make of these Reds. They keep losing players, yet keep winning as if none of it matters. Maybe it’s as John Erardi said, the Reds have made a pact with the devil. Whatever it is, there is some sort of magic going on down at GABP these days. I’m coming into town next week for the Mets and Cubs series and I cannot wait to see this team in person.
Source: FanGraphs
Rolen got it done tonight. Showed all of those young Whippersnappers how it’s done
Yes, it must be a pact with the devil. Last night 2/3 of their offense was from the pitcher. During the run since Joey went down, they won a game where have their offense was from Wilson Valdez. Another where half the offense wast from XPaul. And tonight they get all this from Rolen, who, last time I checked was officially DEAD. Clearly a devil pact. But if you’re gonna make one this seems like the one to make.
Listening to Pittsburgh sports radio again (what can I say, schadenfreude is a guilty pleasure when it comes to sports) and of course all they’re talking about is the HBP drama.
Of course they think Leake’s was intentional too. And they’re throwing a hissy fit about being disrespected and not getting a chance to beam one of our guys.
Lame. Earn your respect by winning the game.
It’s just ridiculous and some of their writers have been fanning the flames on twitter. I hope A.J. Burnett does something stupid today and gets tossed in the first inning. I want to bury these guys. I was having a hard time working up a good hate towards the Pirates, but now I have.
I was one of the ten people who didnt give up on Rolen.I said when he was batting .190 that he will finish the year at .265.Maybe we can get more!Proud of these Reds they just keep on truckin!Also just a thought maybe they should make sure Votto is completly healthy before they bring him back.Up 5 1/2 games maybe an extra week or two to be sure.Really goin to need him in the playoffs!
Pirates showed their class this series. Harrison barking at Leake after a breaking ball barely touching him, Alvarez shoving Frazier after getting robbed by Cairo, and Hughes pushing Navarro.
Pretty sure that was a fastball by Leake and it hit him pretty good, but that being said why in the hell would you hit him intentionally?
Okay, I’m befuddled as to one thing about this game, and think someone here can answer it.
On the second out that Chapman recorded – the strikeout where the ball went back to the backstop – why did Hanigan not need to throw down to first to complete the strikeout? I was (and am still) so confused.
Rolen’s triple was one of the most encouraging things I’ve seen from this team all season. 37 years old, with over 2000 MLB games played and 8400 plate appearances, and he still shows some of the strongest hustle out of the entire team. Fans/managers/GMs like to place a certain value on the veteran presence in the clubhouse, and I have to imagine that effect increases dramatically when you factor in his performance and hustle as of late.
Let’s make it six (!!!) in a row tomorrow, boys.
That’s what I like to see. As long as he makes it close, go for it. As well as Cairo stealing a base and that defensive play. Leaders by example, getting out there and playing baseball.
I can’t help thinking when Votto comes back, as long as Rolen keeps going, I would consider putting Frazier out in right field, sitting Bruce for a while, Frazier splitting time between 3rd and RF.
I didn’t exactly predict a major resurgence for Rolen — but I certainly hadn’t given up on him either. I was very vocal against the prevalent view that he should retire after last year, and again early this year. I insisted that it was impossible for anybody other than Rolen or the Reds to know whether retirement was the appropriate choice.
rant—-I am neither an I told you so kind of guy nor a relative of the Rolen Family. May I say that I have shocked all season long at the contempt Scott Rolen received here and at other sites. Remember the queasiness and dread?
The guy was injured, had a bad rehab under Kremchek, went back on the DL did different, small muscle work with, as I understand, the pitchers’ PT guys and gals.
He looked good in Spring Training, remember? All he needed was the PT to keep his hands inside and still have the bat speed to hit ML pitching.
I said so. Often. Because it was easy to see. For me. Why didn’t you? /rant
What part of what many said wasn’t unjustified. It wasn’t looking good for Rolen. I can’t see us resigning him, not at his cost, as long as we have Frazier and a load of arbitrations I believe to do this year.
Scott had a lot of backers here in the great state of Indiana, and it’s good to see him serving up big heapings of crow to all those who said he was “done.”
As I said last week, you seem to have nailed Rolen.
What I’d like to know is how you knew Rolen would once again start hitting the ball after two full calendar years of terrible hitting. It seems to me the only explanation might be that he was hurt for 2 years, and if that’s the case, what made you think he was healthy?
@Racine Red:
Don’t know what calendar you are looking at (i.e. “two full calendar years of terrible hitting”). Rolen had one terrible year: 2011. The WLB’s got Berkman and Beltran relatively cheap by ignoring a down year on otherwise stellar resumes.
Yes, count me also amongst those here that were consistently in Rolen’s corner. Like Seat said, you could see that Rolen was hitting the ball with authority in ST. And no one, I mean, NO ONE flashes the leather like Rolen does.
@seat101: Because until the ASG, he looked like a washed-up, over-the-hill former star player who could no longer get around on a 90-mph fastball. Just being honest.
Everyone is giddy right now and I’m no exception but we haven’t won anything. If we sweep today, the season is “not” over. If Rolen starts to really struggle again and Frazier is on the bench 6 days a week, I will be calling for a change. It’s about the team not the players. At least to me.
@CharlotteNCRedsFan:
My point is you were wrong. I have no problem with that. I have been and will be wrong, too. My problem was/is with the over the top invective was neither deserved nor correct.
Why was I wrong. What is false about that statement. Hypothetical: this hot streak ends in a week and it is back to how it was before? Then who is wrong? Not you?
@Omri: First base was already occupied. It’s just the rule. It’s that simple.
BTW, I think it’s stupid that a batter can advance to first on a strikeout wild pitch. It’s never made sense to me.
I have mixed feelings. Obviously it seems wrong that a guy can reach base by striking out, but the logic underlying the rule is that every defensive put-out requires that a fielder be in control of the ball when the out is recorded. So, as a general rule, strikeouts require it too.
I’ve often wondered if anyone has ever tried taking advantage of the rule by intentionally swinging and missing at a ball in the dirt and just sprinting to first.
Can’t site specific instances off the top of my head but I’m sure I’ve heard or read of it happening.
Ah, OK, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying, because I had never heard of that rule before. And I agree that it’s stupid.
@Omri: I don’t think you can run on a missed third strike with a man on first unless there is two outs.
@Omri: Because first base was occupied; the batter was “automatically” out. The fact it was a wild pitch didn’t matter because the runner was still at first when the batter swung and missed. However, had it been the third out pending, the batter could have advanced to first….
I’d guess that tomorrow neither Broxton nor Chapman will be available. Marshall may be able to go one inning; and, I would guess he would be the closer de jour. But it could get crazy getting to the closer.
However, the Reds have already done what they needed to do in this series. Still it would be a nice icing on the cake if they could come up with the sweep.
@OhioJim:
Why not have a complete game shutout so as to not ditract the bullpen from their tactical discussions concerning the 5th inning brawl?
The reason for the strikeout rule (with a force out in play and less than 2 outs) is so a team can’t do a cheap double play by having the catcher drop the ball.
It’s fairly obvious by now, but the 6 run comeback against the D-Backs is definitely the turning point of the year…I was thinking the Votto grand slam/3 homer run game, but the Reds didn’t do a ton after that. Counting that last game against Arizona, the Reds are something like 15-1 – all without Votto and I think 5 starts w/o DatDude (one due to normal rest). I think every season has a distinct turning point…my vote in 2010 was the game when Heisey threw out the runner at the plate vs. the Cardinals in the Civil Rights games…and last year was when they lost the third game in Houston in August (losing 2/3 in the series) after Dontrelle Willis hit a homerun to give them the lead. The 9-0 start in 1990 was incredible, but I was little and this is the best ride I can remember.
Nice post, thanks, I didn’t understand that rule.
I agree about the comeback against the DBacks being the turning point, as things stand now. I thought the Reds were going to lose 3 of 4 at home to the suddenly hot DBacks and who knows from there.
@seat101: That sounds good. However if it happens there could well be a donny brook if the pens cross paths during the post game walk off…
Did they show on TV how Mike Leake reacted to Josh Harrison on the HBP? When Harrison glared at the pitcher and expressed hostility, Leake took a couple of menacing steps toward Harrison as he went to first base. Very much “I’m not gonna back down.” Something I’m sure he learned on the rough streets of Fallbrook, CA.
Yeah they did. He also raised his arms in the air like Bring it On.
@steveschoen:
There is absolutely no chance Frazier takes PT form Bruce. more likely Ludwick/Heisey. and Hughes on Navarro…straight (kyle)busch league
Heisey’s not getting any playing time right now; don’t know why. So, Heisey won’t even be in the discussion.
When Votto returns, Frazier should still be starting almost everyday. Frazier should get more time at third than Rolen.
I’m a big Frazier supporter…but that being said..I think Rolen’s # are as good as if not better that Fraziers’. Not gonna happen barring injury
1st Inning: There is no better argument for Drew Stubbs batting 2nd than what happened here. He can hit and run or bunt for a base hit. He’s virtually impossible to double up so if you can get Cozart or ANYONE on in front of him you open up a world of opportunities.
@zippy:
if anyone tried it it was Pete Rose
Oh, one other thing I was infinitely surprised at today.
Dusty didn’t bat the catcher 8th. WHOA! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!
Being too young to remember the BRM and barely old enough to remember the 90 season, this has been as good as it gets for me as a Reds fan. 99 was fun and 2010 was a little tease of what success feels like, but I think I can speak for everyone on here when I say this is FUN! The Reds are in the midst of a historic run in the past 20+ games. Enjoy this as much as possible. We’re probably going to go through a skid or two before its all said and done, but just remember that every other baseball fan in the country is looking up at us right now in the standings. Feels like a special season to me. Get your brooms out for tomorrow boys. Go Redlegs!
Oh, one other thing I was infinitely surprised at today.
Dusty didn’t bat the catcher 8th. WHOA! THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END!
The Pirates are closer to the third-place Cardinals than the first-place Reds. Gotta love that.
That win over the Diamondbacks that seemed to get things going takes me back to Hal King. I know, I know, older Reds fans are saying Hal Who? This is from RLN in 2010.
—
July 1, 1973: Third-string catcher Hal King slugs one of the most famous home runs in Reds’ history, a two-out three-run walkoff home run in the ninth inning to give the Reds a 4-3 come from behind win over the division leading Los Angeles Dodgers. The King home run moved the fourth place Reds to nine games behind the Dodgers.
King’s homer is widely credited with sparking the Reds to an incredible 60-26 finish, with the Reds overtaking the Dodgers and winning the National League’s Western Division with a 99-63 record, 3.5 games ahead of the second place Dodgers.
—-
Is it possible that this year’s wakeup call was Brandon Phillips’ three-run homer off Ian Kennedy when the Reds were looking dead in the water and trailing 6-0? … This season does appear to have some magic in it now.
Rolen is hitting well now because his left shoulder is not bothering him. That is awesome. Once that thing acts up again, he’ll go back to the Rolen of April. I hope that whatever they,(Rolen and the medical staff) have done, sticks the rest of the year.
Once everyone is back in place, Votto and Phillips, Frazier needs to get his atbats as much as anyone does. I expect that he will get his. It will be crowded amongst he, Rolen, Ludwick, and to a lesser extent, Heisey.
@vegastypo: I remember the Hal King HR, Also wasn’t it game one of a DH the Reds went on to sweep. Or maybe they had already won the first game and it gave them the sweep…
My brain just can’t wrap itself around what this team is doing. It’s nuts. 22 of 25? most of it without your/MLB’s best player, all without him at 100%? The Reds are playing beyond the comprehension of the game of baseball.
This is one helluva run. They said on the tv broadcast that a Reds team had won 21 out of 24 four times before. Twice in the 1800′s, 1940, and 1975.
@steelheels: I believe it when you say you were one of the 10 people who thought Rolen still had something left because several people here at RLN did.
Others, like me, thought he might do better after the All Star break but could not agree with having Frazier sit for Rolen. Joey’s injury temporarily solved the problem. Now that we know Rolen can still play and Frazier’s the real deal, it’s a good problem to have. Some depth at last.
The question for 2012 with Scott is how long can he stay healthy.
@OhioJim: It was indeed the first game of the DH. The reds won game two 3-2 in 10 innings.
@RichmondRed: One of the Reds marketing slogans used to be “You’re not hot until you’re Reds hot”.
These guys are Reds Hot right now.
@RedLeg75: To me almost as incredible as the Reds run is the fact the Pirates and for that matter the Cardinales have hung in as well as they have. I guess it says oodles abotu how bad the back ends of the NL Central and NL west are right now.
Brandon Phillips was actually getting on fans for booing during that Arizona game. That’s how dead the team looked in the first five or so innings.
Whether that game is THE turning point, who knows? But if makes for darned good theater!
Just get through Sunday with no fights/suspensions, take care of business against the Brewers, etc.
Imagine how awesome they’d be without Dusty Baker! *sarcasm*
Rolen has great instincts as a base runner. I’ve noticed this many times.
On third base, none out, a bouncer to the pitcher, a lot of speedsters would freeze.
@OhioJim: I’m waiting for someone at ESPN.com to make it a headline when the Olympics are over and people remember we still have baseball going on and the Reds are doing alright at it.
Also, I believe if the Reds win every series for the rest of the season, they will have a record of 102-60 roughly. I got off the phone with the 1976 Reds team and they said that’s pretty good.
@OhioJim: I recently posted a rant about how overrated the Cardinals are but they have won 11 of 15 and are definitely still alive. Their wins include a series win over the Dodgers.
@RichmondRed: Once the Olympics are over, ESPN returns to its usual format: Football, Yankees, Red Sox, Tiger Woods, Football, Yankees, Red Sox, Bryce Harper. Rinse and repeat.
Would have been better if he held them to 3 runs, but Leake didn’t have such a bad line tonite.
No way that Chapman intentionally hit McCutcheon, but are we sure that Leake didn’t intentionally hit Harrison ? Early on the game thread it was suggested that Dusty could abort a Reds player getting thrown at by having Leake hit one of them first, drawing a warning.
There were two outs, none on, the pitcher up next and Leake hit him with a fast ball on the thigh, the way it’s supposed to be done. I’m not at all convinced, because you want the pitcher, rather than the leadoff guy, leading off the next inning. Just not sure, wonder what people think. Dusty can be more clever than a lot of us give him credit for.
If that was what was drawn up, it couldn’t have worked out better. Harrison got mad, and the warnings were given. Everyone in the park knew that warnings would be given if someone got hit. Hurdle, understandably, goes berserk, and he’s tossed. Brilliant!
Who knows for sure if Leake did it on purpose. If he did, then good job. Just don’t be a Cole Hamels and blabber about it.
The Pirates announcers went ballistic because they did not think Leake’s HBP was intentional and they apparently wanted the chance for the Pirates to throw at the Reds during the game.
I find it hard to believe that Baker told Leake to hit a #8 hitter with 2 outs and no one on, in the leg, in the off chance that the HP ump overreacts and warns both benches. But I suppose you never know.
A few of us were joking about that, but NO WAY do I think it was in any way intentional on Leake’s part. It was just kinda humorous the way it worked out. While I was listening on the radio, I could just picture Hurdle yelling at the umpire, “But that’s not fair. We didn’t get a chance to throw at anybody yet!”…………
When I was looking at the video highlights on mlb.com, it sounded like even the Pirates’ own broadcasters were saying that if Josh Harrison hadn’t made a big deal out of getting hit with a pitch, nobody would’ve been warned/tossed. (Which at least one person posted on our game thread as well.)
I really believe that last part about Harrison. He MADE it a big deal.
@Racine Red: I just watched the video in start/stop mode several times and it does not look like an intentional hit at all. The target set by Navarro was several inches off the plate inside. Leake’s pitch was close to the target. Harrison started to step into the pitch and then froze, turning his hip a bit at the last second, where it hit him.
Dusty could even have really pissed the Pirates off by arguing that Harrison made no real effort to avoid the pitch, and so should not be awarded first base. (A technical rule that’s rarely enforced.)
So now Phillips is out Sunday too. How much longer is this going to go on? People really thought he’d play Friday. Based on the past history with this organization (and many others too, the Reds aren’t the only one), why did one think Phillips really would be out only a couple of days?
Maybe you already knew this, but he was in the starting lineup Saturday, but scratched just a few minutes before the official lineup card was turned in. And Phillips apparently was trying to talk his way into the lineup on Friday as well. So he must not be hurting that badly.
@vegastypo: Thanks for that, I was too lazy to read thru the game thread.
@Racine Red: I have no confidence that BP will be back soon. The next thing we might hear is that he needs “minor surgery”, who knows.
@Racine Red: I just read Fay’s statement. BP is scratched just 20 minutes before a game and then he’s out for the next game also ? What happened there ?
If I sound paranoid, it’s because I am, due to past “day to day” situations that turned out to be week to week or worse.
It looks like Masset will miss most of the season with a “minor inflammation” of the shoulder.
Dusty always seems intent on getting official word on when a guy can return to the lineup, and then giving him a few extra days anyway. So maybe he figured if BP was right on the cusp, just give him a few extra days to be sure. (and not let him get targeted if the Pirates feel like they have to hit somebody! Remember, Lance Berkman came back from a knee injury, then got hit right on that knee by a pitch, and now he’s back on the DL. Not sure if those two occurrences are related, though)
Although, maybe Dusty pulled BP when he found out that Valdez could play after all? Hell, it’s not a good theory, but it’s a theory. For all I know, maybe he was trying to give Cairo a day off at the beginning of the game.
@vegastypo: In August 2010, BP was hit on the hand by a pitch. Said it was just a bruise, came back within a week, and for weeks the hand was bandaged and swollen, and he couldn’t buy a hit, but played every day. Later he admitted that he’d aggravated the hand injury when he came back too soon, and even said it was a hairline fracture or some such thing.
You’re probably right that it’s minor, but you can’t know from BP’s wanting to play that he’s OK.
I’m just hoping, more than anything. Nice point about 2010.
@vegastypo: Maybe about Valdez. And maybe now that the Reds have won the series, Dusty feels less pressure and just views it as a Sunday off for BP. Maybe.
I was wondering during the game why Valdez left the game, hoping he didn’t get hurt all over again. All of that weirdness with the double-switch didn’t seem to make much sense. (Of course, then Cairo comes in looking like he just downed a lifetime supply of Geritol. Good luck trying to figure this game out.)
@pinson343: I would change “maybe” to “probable”.
BTW when I say that Masset is missing most of the season with a “minor shoulder” inflammation, of course I’m being sarcastic, but that was the original diagnosis, and it was never changed. They said after an MRI that they found a little bubble that just needed a little time to heal. The next MRI said he was completely healthy. That was months ago.
I hear ya, and I feel bad for the guy if he’s hurting, but I’m gonna be ticked off if the Reds send out a good pitcher from their bullpen to make room and Masset is as inconsistent as he was last year.
@vegastypo: I understand about the hoping. You’re coming up with some good theories.
@vegastypo: Wow, are you always this thoughtful at 3:45 AM ? I’m done.
it ain’t 3:45 here
Are you on West coast time ?
oh yeah
Oh wait maybe you live in Vegas ? Duh.
actually, not in vegas anymore, but the handle lives on! gonna try to get to arizona in a few weeks, not sure if I’ll make it.
Many said he was “done”, and that he should retire during the all-star break. His stat line wasn’t looking great, but then none of us are professional scouts. His extraordinarily low BABIP in the first half suggested that some of his first half problems were just bad luck.
I’ve typically avoided caring or complaining about the National media’s coverage of the Reds, but I find it a bit appalling that I go to ESPN.com/mlb page this morning and there’s nothing about the Reds on the front page. There is space for 11 “headlines” which at this time of the morning appears to be links to 11 game stories from last night and NONE of them link to the Reds-Pirates matchup.
Pardon me, but the whole warning, Clint Hurdle ejection was just completely bogus. Regardless of whether Chapman’s HBP was on purpose or not, the Pirates had to retaliate. If someone hit Votto with a 101 MPH pitch, you better believe we would have expected the Reds to retaliate. The Mike Leake HBP was incidental and had the Chapman NBP not happened the night before, that one would have bee forgotten a play later by both teams.
The Umps should have just come the the Reds bench and issued a warning and let the Pirates get their retaliation. No one wants to see a player get hurt by a HBP, but now, thanks to that whole scene and the two losses the Pirates and juiced up for a brawl. A brawl is the last thing either team needs right now.
I don’t get this. If I’m an umpire, I don’t care about “letting a team get retribution.” Yeah, that might be the code of baseball or whatever, but my job is to make sure people aren’t getting hurt and there’s a fair, safe ballgame going on. The ump saw what happened, knew it wasn’t intentional, but also knew that whatever retribution the Pirates had in store was probably going to get taken up a notch now. Instead of hitting Bruce or Ludwick in the back, now McDonald was going to be throwing at their head.
I don’t like the whole “retribution” thing anyway. Unless someone gets hit CLEARLY intentionally, and even then I’d rather see a straight up fight. Hit another player that had nothing to do with it with a big league fastball? How is that evening the score at all? MAYBE if you get a chance to plunk the pitcher who threw it in the first place, but even then it’s almost never intentional so for you to come back out and do it intentionally is just childish. And as for Hurdle getting thrown out, he clearly said something pretty bad because it happened almost immediately and I’m no expert at reading lips but he was throwing around fome F bombs afterwards so I doubt he started out with “I respectfully disagree with your decision, sir.”
Well, the reason they didn’t do what you suggest is because they’re not allowed to. There’s no such thing as warning one team. The umps can warn no one or both teams. That’s the rules. It may be stupid, but that’s what it is.
Reds just need to play this cool.
The Pirates on the other hand came completely unwound last year starting with a blown call at the plate against the Braves.
@AnnapolisHoosier: And what was the ump supposed to do? Let them hit TWO of our guys now because that would even things out? Why would Leake intentionally hit a #8 better who’s hitting .230 to let the Pirates turn over their lineup for the inning? The ump wanted to make sure it didn’t get out of hand so he warned everybody. I can’t even imagine why Hurdle was arguing with him. He should have just nodded his head and waited until today if he really felt like telling a grown man to hit another grown man with a baseball on purpose.
@earmbrister: Rolen was pretty terrible the 2nd half of 2010, too. He had an AMAZING first half to that season, but fell off a cliff in the second. Then was horrible and hurt for all of 2011 and the first half of 2012. That’s 2 calendar years.
@eric nyc:
Rolen wasn’t even close to being “pretty terrible” the 2nd half of 2010. He had 4 great months followed by 2 mediocre months. Most good ballplayers build good seasons in just that manner: several good months offset by some months that are less so.
As for “calendar years”, I think you and Racine need a dictionary.
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120327&content_id=27662142&vkey=news_cin&c_id=cin
See above for the rosy consensus view on SRolen after Spring Training
@Racine Red:
Thanks. First, a recap: Scott looked good in Spring Training then looked mediocre. Yes he did. Not horrible, barely below replacement level. I understand why people wanted to replace him. We discuss that all the time with all positions/players. Rolen, Dusty, the medical staff, and the FO all waited too long to deal with his shoulder. Yet the language and the attacks on Rolen were off the charts.
People here and elsewhere accused Rolen of the basest motives (verging on Rolen being so selfish as being willing to hurt the team rather than sit). He was never near that bad. Frazier Love, and Dusty Disdain blinded many folks here. To the point that if they go back to read their posts, they will be embarrassed, if not severely chastened. That drove me nuts.
Looking at his swing, swagger and swiftness when he returned, anyone who had baseball knowledge AND had not gone blind should have been able to see Rolen was back. It greatly surprised that there were so few. And there were still the haters going after Rolen long after the stats showed otherwise. When folks would choose not to believe their eyes or the stats and continued to micturate on him, I was amazed.
Short version: Spring Training showed Rolen still had it. After a too long stint of playing hurt, Rolen fixed the problem. And it showed. I think if foljs had open minded, they would have seen sooner that Scott was back.
Thanks for askin’.
Something similar happened on a softball team I was on – we were reduced to ten players (the game allows an extra player) and so we all had to show up, we each had a role to play. None of us individually were very good, but as a team we kept winning winning winning.
When the Reds were Dunn/Griffey and company, the reliance on star-quality players was a negative for the team as a whole, something Jerry Narron knew when he took their BarcaLoungers away. So now I am wondering if the team will be hurt by the return of Votto.
Don’t mean to fan the Rolen flames, but I do recall posting something to the effect that we might want to consider the POSSIBILITY that he’d be a better player after taking some time off to nurse his injury, and I was informed that I was basically crazy because he’d had a couple bad years prior to the injury, so there was no possibility of improvement. I can’t really say “I told you so,” because I didn’t exactly predict anything, but I will say there’s a reason I don’t make too many predictions about what any given player is likely to do in the future. I do think it’s reasonable to use past performance as a tool for predicting future performance, but I’ll never tell anyone they’re crazy for thinking it’s possible someone’s performance might change one way or another after a prolonged rest.
@hydeman: Rolen’s numbers are nowhere NEAR as good as Frazier’s.
Rolen: .236/.312/.382
Frazier: .272/.327/.528
That’s not even a conversation. Rolen’s numbers over the past 2 WEEKS have been better than Frazier’s, but not by all that much. I am pleasantly surprised by Rolen’s resurgence the past few weeks, and he has been a huge part of keeping us at this otherworldly clip without Votto, but at this point in both of their careers Todd Frazier is a better baseball player than Scott Rolen. That being said, if Rolen has a couple months of this left in those 27 year old bones then I am all for having him lead the charge into October. But if he starts fumbling again, I will be the first one screaming for Frazier to take the starting spot he’s earned.
I will make an amendment there, Rolen’s numbers since the ASG have been significantly better than Frazier’s. .355/.446/.548. But does anyone in their right mind believe he can sustain that for any real amount of time? That’s not even a knock on him. Joey can barely sustain those kinds of numbers for more than a month at a time. Well, maybe not Joey but you get my point…
I was one of the ones that wanted to wash my hands of Scott Rolen. Am I thrilled he is playing well right now? Absolutely, it wins us games. But I also wonder how many games it’ll cost us when he goes back into the tank (for whatever reason be it age, injury, whatever) and Baker continues to play him over Frazier. And I have no doubt this short hot streak will end and Baker will continue to start him 3-4 days a week. I hope I’m wrong.
I will take a little issue on putting Leake in the “bad” category last night. He struggled and didn’t have his best stuff, but he gave up 2 very short wind-blown homers and a wind-blown triple that could (some say “should”) have been caught. Thom said last night that the wind was doing things he’d never seen in this ballpark, so…I’m willing to cut Leake a little slack.
To date Rolen is still at best average for the season. I also wonder how long he can keep it up and if he’ll play no matter what his performance, especially with his excellent play since the ASB. Maybe he will, though I find it hard to believe it will be at a 1.000 OPS level, or even .900.
Also, about Rolen flashing the leather as everyone is saying, I really don’t know defense because of the lack of metrics, but Rolen has made an awful lot of errors per game this year. I believe he’s on pace (prorated) for his second highest errors in a season ever.
As for the “triple”, I’m thrilled with the team’s performance, but still disappointed with Bruce, and especially with his defense the last 30 days. I don’t care about wind etc, he should have caught that ball, IMO.
This is kind of sad. You good always to take a risk and trust your eyes.
@Bill Lack:
A pessamist is never disappointed.
@eric nyc: I respect your opinion, because it reflects a level head and proper temperament. But this is two teams battling for the lead of a division. The real world doesn’t work that way.
I disagree on several points. 1.) The Ump may have been trying to keep things under control, but all he did is throw gas on the fire. All he did was add to the Pirates’ frustration. 2.) Why would you think McDonald would throw at someone’s head? McDonald is a professional. 3.) You’d prefer a straight up fight? Where players from both teams would get suspended during a pennant race? Really? Where there is equal chance of get hurt, but rather than the possibility of one it can be many? A brawl weakens both teams and lets the Cardinals back in picture. No thank you. Speaking of the Cardinals, in my mind, somehow a brawl with the Pirates would gives Cardinals the moral high ground for the brawl two years ago. 4.) Retribution is not childish. “You hit our best player, we hit yours,” is ball yard justice and is a time honor way of preserving the peace while ultimately protecting your own players. A HBP can clear the benches, but it rarely leads to a brawl. Not by itself. 5.) Yes, I’m sure Hurdle’s language got him kicked out, but I image 29 out of 30 managers would have had words in that situation as well. The Ump should have said in a disarming tone, “Clint, I’ve just given Dusty a warning. I know you’re not going to like this, but I’ll have no tolerance for retaliation.” Firm and fair. Would have been more likely to diffuse the situation than whatever it was he said that clearly got Hurdle so riled up. Furthermore, if I was the Ump, other than making contact, I would have let Hurdle say anything privately and not tossed him.
@TC: I get the whole baseball justice thing, but I don’t know how it “protects your best players.” It might give guys a mental edge, but I think big league pitchers VERY rarely intentionally hit opposing batters. So the only way it would protect anyone would be if the other pitcher was thinking about hitting someone intentionally and then thought “Nah I shouldn’t do that, they might hit one of my guys.” I just don’t think it accomplishes anything. Personally, I think if an ump ever gets the suspicion someone was hit intentionally the pitcher should be ejected right then and there, warning or not. And when I say I “prefer” an actual fight, clearly I don’t want there to be an actual fight. I’m just saying that if there’s honest to goodness bad blood between two teams and someone thinks that the opposing guy is actually trying to HURT someone, then getting off the bench and getting in their face seems like a more dignified thing to do than hitting someone else with a baseball at 95 mph. Notice I said MORE dignified, not dignified in and of itself because grown men playing a child’s game getting in any kind of fight is silly.
My whole point is the only reason Hurdle got upset was because he was clearly planning on telling his pitcher to intentionally hit one of our guys last night, the ump knew it, and he said “This stops now.” Hurdle was mad because he wasn’t allowed to intentionally try and injure one of our players. Those were his exact words – you could read his lips. “This stops now.” That’s exactly what you want the ump to say, and my guess is he said it a little more strongly to Dusty.