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Let’s recap tonight’s titanic struggle….
FINAL
San Diego 4
Cincinnati 6
W: B. Arroyo (7-6)
L: K. Wells (2-4)
S: A. Chapman (23)
BOX SCORE
POSITIVES
–The Cincinnati Reds still have the best record in the entire major leagues. Are you not entertained?
–Ryan Ludwick was the star again, with his second consecutive 4-RBI game. He was 3-4 with a two-run homer in the first inning. Drew Stubbs was 2-3 with a walk and two runs scored.
–Jonathan Broxton made his first appearance since being traded to Cincinnati yesterday. I don’t know anything about pitching, but I know he looked pretty good tonight. A fastball that sat at 94-95, with good breaking stuff. I’ll take that every night.
–Sean Marshall settled into his new role as the seventh inning guy (sigh…) by twirling a perfect inning.
–Wilson Valdez batted twice and walked twice. He left the game early, however, with “neck stiffness.” Will the Reds play with a 23-man roster tomorrow?
NEGATIVES
–None. (Well, Zack Cozart made an error, and there was some horrendous baserunning. Who cares?)
NOT-SO-RANDOM THOUGHTS
–The new streak begins, and it’s at two in a row. Still three games up on second-place Pittsburgh, and 22 games over .500. This is crazy fun.
–Nineteen wins in 22 games; 12 of their last 13. Since Votto’s injury: 13-3. I almost can’t believe this is happening.
–Bronson Arroyo had nothing tonight, yet he somehow gutted through six innings. Don’t ask me to explain how he did it.
–On the season, Ludwick is hitting .264/.333/.555 with 19 homers and 56 RBI. I’m astounded.
–Marshall, Broxton, Aroldis Chapman: three shutout innings. Pretty impressive debut for the new-look back of the bullpen.
–I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: the Reds aren’t doing Zack Cozart any favors by hitting him leadoff. The rookie just isn’t ready for it, or capable of handling it. He did hit a leadoff homer tonight, which was great, but the kid’s OBP is .287, for crying out loud.
Put Cozart at seventh or eighth in the lineup, and I’d be very happy indeed.
–Let me repeat myself: The Reds have the best record in all of baseball. (Insert smiley-face here.)
Source: FanGraphs
Why the (sigh) for Marshall being used in the 7th inning? Is it not as important as the 8th or 9th inning or for that matter every other inning where three outs are required?
Today’s use of Marshall was perfect. The issue is, and we’ll have to see how Baker handles it, that Broxton may be ahead of Marshall in the pecking order. I actually think Marshall should have appearances like this in the earlier late innings in high leverage situations. But if the Reds starters get their act together, and hopefully they will very soon, it may mean (and I think it will) that when the starters go 7 innings, or 6 2/3 innings say, that Marshall will pitch to 0 or 1 batter, respectively, with Broxton taking the 8th inning because he’s better in Baker’s mind (which he is not). I have no idea if Marshall pitched the 7th today because that was where he should have pitched given who was up (middle of the order, left or switch hitters), or if he pitched it because he’s the 7th inning guy. If it’s the latter, it doesn’t bode well. If it’s the former, it could help.
Bingo.
I think we were all hoping for more impact for him this season. He has been good…(sigh) ok but just still a bit scary everytime he tows the rubber.
I don’t get what all the angst is about Marshall being “demoted” in the bullpen. Broxton is a closer. Chapman is a closer. Marshall….Sort of was a closer. Logic dictates your closers pitch closer to the end of the game.
Who cares where people pitch as long as the games are being won?
Right. And Marshall, in my opinion, pitched in a higher leverage situation facing the 2, 3, 4 hitters in the lineup.
He did. I thought it was actually the best possible use of Marshall tonight. Of course I think Baker would have used him in the 7th regardless of who was due up (“he’s my 7th inning guy”), but tonight it happened to work out well.
My thoughts exactly. As RedLegHerm said, it was 2-3-4 in their lineup, and also two lefties due up. (They PH for Venable.)
Broxton is more effective against righties, so it would make a lot of sense to base who pitches the 7th and 8th on matchups, but I don’t see that happening.
You’re leaving out the part where you believe Marshall is one of the worst pitchers in the Reds’ pen. Don’t you actually believe that Marshall shouldn’t be pitching in any important situation?
And, logic dictates that your best pitchers pitch in the highest leverage situations. You don’t use a label that’s been applied to them to decide.
There you go trying to put words in my mouth again.
Never once did I say Marshall is the worst reliever on this team.
However, what I DID say is that many on this board are wrong for trying to anoint him as one of the BEST relievers on this team.
Marshall is not the best. He is not the worst. He’s pretty good, but he should not be a closer.
He should rightfully be third on the pecking order behind Chapaman and Broxton.
The bottom line is Dusty was 100% right to remove Marshall from the closer role, and he is 100% right in the way he is using Marshall now. There is no need for (sigh)’s or being in any way upset about Marshall’s use. He’s being used exactly the way he should be used.
I for one am happy with it, and I think none of you can argue with the results we have gotten from it.
I guess I mistook the constant “I do not trust Marshall” incorrectly. I assumed the constant comments about how Marshall gave up too many hits, combined with zero complaints about anyone else in the pen, meant he wasn’t as good as at least most of the current bullpen.
And to put him 3rd behind Broxton isn’t supported by anything except a belief. The stats certainly don’t support it.
And, the results are good so far…one night.
It’s true, I don’t trust Marshall, but lately he has done better. I will give him that.
I trust Broxton more because he has had success pitching in high leverage situations. He’s a closer, that’s what closers do.
And I mean the results have been good with the way Dusty has managed the pen. Best pen in MLB and best record in MLB.
All is well. As far as pitching goes, I trust Dusty’s judgement completely.
Done better, as everyone who looked at his peripheral numbers said he would, while you were insulting his WHIP, etc.
I wonder what it would take for you to trust him. Maybe it’s just not possible, I’ve realized, because the guy’s ERA in the last two months is 1.17. I guess it needs to be 0.00 for you to be impressed.
Closers don’t necessarily pitch in higher leverage situations than setup guys, by the way.
I wonder what it would take for you
How do we know Marshall can’t close?
@dn4192:
He wasn’t exactly lights out when given the chance early in the season. I don’t know if I’d say he CAN’T close, but I don’t blame Dusty for havign lost confidence in him in that role.
I’ll tell you what, this Padre team caught me off guard. They seem to be actually a good offensive team when they aren’t stuck in those large fields out west. Of course I’m basing this off the last few nights, but back-to-back-to-back poor starts by our starters seems too much a coincidence. I think Cueto will be fine tomorrow but I will be surprised if its as clean as usual.
Ok, so Baker just said Valdez STARTED the game with a stiff neck, which Baker knew about, and it got worse during the game. Is it just me, or does this sound vaguely familiar?
I was in the lower section behind the visitor on deck circle, and I can say that when Broxton came in and went through them 1-2-3. The crow was absolutely loving it.
Things that most impressed me about Broxton: He came out and threw 3 different pitches right off the bat, and all were effective. Also, on outs 2 and 3, he made very athletic plays towards home to get the soft grounders for outs. For a big guy, it was very impressive to see.
I’ll say this, a back end of Marshall 7th, Broxton 8th, and Chapman 9th with the stuff they had tonight has to be the most dangerous back end in baseball.
I was also impressed to see him walking off from his debut to a standing ovation. It seems like Broxton did a very good job of winning over fans by throwing strikes, throwing pitches ranging from ~77-95mph, and (probably most importantly) showing his mobility (regardless of his weight he can sure move pretty quick). Not what many people expected from somebody being portrayed as a 300lb man who is out of his prime foolishly being permitted to steal Marshall’s job.
After being chosen as the ‘Star of the game’ or whatever on the FSN OH postgame show it was nice that Ryan Ludwick wanted to instead talk about Broxton as being the highlight of the night. It fits right in nicely with this ‘The Ryan Ludwick Show’ headline.
Baker doesn’t seem to care too much for sending players to the medical staff. I believe the player in him remembers how much he hates going to them when he just wants to play, so he let’s the player play if they think they can. Bad idea at this level.
But I did hear the interview and he didn’t say if Valdez told him beforehand if he had a stiff nick. So I won’t necessarily blame Dusty just yet…
I think all the players are secretly terrified of being “Wally Pip’d” since Baker keeps dropping not-too-subtle hints about what happens to players who ask for a day off.
I’ve been thinking about this lately. It’s part of the MLB culture that you don’t want to sit out a game. You’re supposed to “suck up” an injury unless it’s serious. And there is the Wally Pipp fear.
This goes way beyond Dusty, but he does refer to Wally Pipp a lot.
I’ve seen Baker say that he wants players telling him when there they’re hurt.
That doesn’t make that much of a difference. It would still be Dusty’s decision. If Baker is even thinking about asking if a player is alright, if he is even looking that way considering if the player is ok after “doing something”, they should be checked on. Baker needs to remember players are more likely to say they aren’t hurt, period; that is fact.
@Shadowcast: I don’t recall what he said word for word, but it sure sounded to me as if he was well aware of Valdez’s neck problem when the game began.
By the Reds being so hot….and good, they are pushing the Cards and Bucs hard. Would it be a huge surprise if at the end of the season, these three clubs own the best three records in the NL?
Tomorrow is an important game to put in the W column. Our Ace is going and you might have Votto, BP & Valdez all out in the Pittsburgh series. Playing with a 23-man roster and Cairo as the every-inning 2B. I actual think Miguel might have a decent series just to prove he has something left and I will be rooting hard for him too.
Surprise, yes. Welcome, uh.. no.
I’ll be rooting hard for Cairo too, because the Reds need him to perform right now and I like him. Watching him try to bunt in the 8th was just sad. He’ll be dropped from the roster when Votto returns (assuming no one else has been DL’d before then).
Not really, considering the other 3 teams in the Central.
@zippy: the reason I brought that up is because I have expierence with that as a coach of several sports. Seems a lot more apparent in football, but I’ve had many kids come to me after an injury saying something along the lines “it was hurting before we started today, coach.” You could be right, and I wouldn’t be surprised one bit, but Valdez could have told him after it got worse that he had it all day.
I just want to add that the Reds are 31-14 in their last 45 games. That is a .689 winning percentage.
And it sounds like Marshall, Broxton and Chapman may be the new Nasty Boys.
More like the apocalypse.
In ’90 we had the Nasty Boys. Marshall, Broxton, & Chapman might be the Filthy Boys.
The Padres want Ludwick back.
We keep winning without Votto & now Phillips. Dusty uses no common sense & can’t even fill out the lineup card the right way. Yet we have the best record in MLB. Unbelieveable.
Another night where someone’s gotten injured and the team steps up. Valdez goes down, Meso DL’d, and I don’t expect the team to step up again.
Off topic: yet 20,527 in attendance for the MLB’s best team is just not cutting the mustard. Cincy is getting outstanding baseball right now. I would be at the yard except that I live 2,000 miles away. Please support the Reds and Uncle Bob to keep the MLB’s best team in Cincy!
I don’t think it is lockstep that Marshall will be the 7th guy, the lineup going into the 7th was a switch hitter then two left handed batters – hence you go to your lefty reliever.
Dusty is kinda nuts, but he is also kind of predictable in his love of the lefty/righty splits thing. I could easily see him going to Broxton then Marshall if the opponents lineup says that’s the way is hdould be.
20,000 for a Padres game mid-week is pretty good in Cincy. Could it be better…sure, but that’s pretty good by comparison. They also got the Pirate series sold out already this weekend, which sometimes have been ghost town games in other years. They are on place for 2.3 million, which would be the best year at Great American. Best year they ever did was 2.6 million in the heart of the Big Red Machine.
@earl: As you and others have noted, tonite the matchups favored Marshall in the 7th and Broxton in the 8th. And Dusty loves those lefty/righty matchups. But he also likes to have a regular 8th inning guy. It’s going to be interesting.
Dusty has shown more flexibility with the bullpen this season than in the past. He’s already said that he’ll use Broxton in the 9th when Chapman is getting too much work.
The use of Broxton you mention sort of describes a weakness of Baker. It is like one of Baker’s unwritten rules, the closer gets all saves situations, period. Chapman gets too much work? That’s only because he puts Chapman out there so many times. It is the best pen in the NL. There maybe wasn’t another regular closer out there. But, few if any teams have 2 regular closers. But, smart managers would give others opportunities, just in case, heaven forbid, they lose the main closer to injury, free agency, etc., rather than the team having to go out and get another pitcher or having to go with an untested closer. Chapman was an untested closer at the beginning of this season. He stepped up and performed. There’s nothing to say that one of the others wouldn’t have performed if asked to step up. But, Baker rarely asked anyone to step up.
Make no mistake, if Chapman is getting too much work, there’s only one reason, Baker doesn’t any confidence in anyone else to do the job.
You know the Reds have been playing A+ baseball when you haven’t Milton in awhile. I actually miss him… just kidding, GO REDS!
@Shadowcast: The Padres don’t have a weak lineup. I haven’t looked it up, but I’ve noticed they’re scoring more runs lately. Grandhal being DL’d is a break for the Reds.
@pinson343: Above I said Cairo will be dropped from the roster when Votto returns, assuming no one else has been DL’d. I meant the 25 man roster – they might keep him on the 40 man by DLing him until September 1. WJ will want to treat him well and keep him with the organization in some capacity.
There is no need for Cairo to leave the 40-man, is there? I’m sure his shoulder is in a bit of pain in a week or two and he’ll hit the DL and it will heal up the day rosters expand.
@Redgoggles: You stole my line on that one.
Also I’m tired of hearing the phrase the “weak NL Central”. It’s not weak, it’s top-heavy. Three good teams, three bad teams. The Brewers wouldn’t even have been that bad if they had a bullpen.
The 3 good teams win games against everyone, not just the bottom of the NL Central.
@RichmondRed: Yes that’s just what I’m thinking about Cairo.
Does anyone think H-Rod deserves a shot if Valdez’s stiff neck is serious? Or Valaika again?
Henry Rodriguez, Chris Valaika, and DiDi Gregorius are all on the 40 man roster so it wouldn’t be complicated to promote any of them. Wilson Valdez is also the backup shortstop but I don’t think HRod plays there, which they’ll factor in.
Gregorius is the best fielder but they won’t want to rush him. HRod is the best hitter but I don’t think he plays shortstop, and the Reds place a lot of value on fielding. Valaika is probably the worst hitter but he has previously started games at shortstop for the Reds, so Valaika is the most likely option for a promotion.
With a day game on Thursday I wouldn’t expect a roster move until Friday against Pittsburgh.
Now I’ve seen it all. I read an article on this site today talking about how it was important to maximize the appearances of Marshall. Is the 7th inning not as important as the 8th? Does n’t having both pitch in a game maximize appearance? What could you possibly not like about it??
I hoped Bronson Arroyo would pitch at least 7 innings. I hope Cueto does on Thursday. I hope the starters do every game. Unfortunately it means less work for Sean Marshall.
@redsfanman: Is Broxton in his prime? That seems fairly unlikely. I suppose it’s possible he’ll be great the next few years, as in better than he was in his good mid 2000s seasons, but do you really think so?
Rolen is off tomorrow (day game after night game), slide SuperTodd to 3B. That means Miggy is at 1st, and that means Valaika is at 2B. Ondrusek has been having periodically mentioned back troubles, DL perhaps? Then, when the BP/Valdez day-to-day is over, bring Hoover up to replace Valaika until Ondrusek or Masset is back.
Unless Navarro or Ludwick can play 1B.
Ondrusek’s back problems have been mentioned by one person on this site who still has not provided a source. It’s not that I don’t believe it, but I certainly am having trouble convincing Google to find it for me.
I expect Rolen will stay in the lineup until Phillips, Valdez, or a replacement from AAA is available. Resting him during a day game after a night game is a policy to keep him rested long term but it isn’t a rule.
I hope the Dr. will find out what is wrong with Valdez! A good and bad Arroyo appeared last night. it was good that Dustman took him out at the right time otherwise the ugly Arroyo would have ruined the game.
@rickdelux: Also, there were two lefties hitting that inning, and Headley hit’s better from the left side. I think They’ll pick who to use in the 8th and 9th based on that.
Marshall pitched the 7th last night because there were 19 lefties due up to bat. Simple as that. I have no idea what the plan is for Marshall/Broxton moving forward but I don’t think you can use last night to gleam any kind of insight into what it might be.
If I had to guess, I’d agree with what Chris Welsh said. In the Spring, the bullpen was set up so that Madson was the closer, Marshall was the 8th inning setup man, and Bray was the situational lefty. Pretty standard stuff. Madson goes down, Chapman shows he’s an All Universe closer, and Bray gets hurt. Like it or not, you need that situational LOOGY in your bullpen, and like it or not Marshall is the only guy that fits the bill.
There are a couple of ways to look at that. The first is to whine about how Marshall is an elite reliever and how stupid it is to use him for 1 or 2 batters a game at most. Perfectly fair. But the OTHER way is to look at our bullpen as a whole and realize how freaking amazing it is that we have the luxury to make one of the best LH relief pitchers in baseball a LOOGY and still have an absolutely dominant 8th and 9th inning. Plus, with Marshall as that situational guy, you don’t HAVE to worry about pulling him after that one lefty batter in the 7th. You know he can more than easily handle the righties if you have a L-R-L order coming up. He’s pitched 3 innings in the last 2 days so I’m not sure why we’re complaining about him not getting enough work all of a sudden. Is it the most efficient use of resources for a mid market team? Absolutely not, but it also was never the plan for this season, so maybe we all just lighten up and realize Walt is making lemons into lemonade. Ridiculously good lemonade.
@eric nyc: Amen.
People were complaining about Chapman getting moved to closer because he would be stuck in a role that may not always result in high-leverage situations. At the time, they instead preferred him to be available in the 7th, 8th, or 9th, depending on the situation.
People are now complaining that Marshall is being used in the 7th inning instead of the 8th. But yet, logic indicates that just because it’s the 8th inning, it does not mean for sure that will be a more high-leverage situation than the 7th.
IF Dusty allows for some flexibility, like is being discussed, and is open to using Broxton and Marshall interchangeably as the setup men, why in the world is everyone getting their panties in a twist over such minutiae?? At this point, the Reds have a combination of three of the better relievers in the game at the back end of the bullpen. In the limited sample size, Dusty has used them perfectly.
Geez, it’s as if we all take pleasure in suffering sometimes…
It bothers me that the Pirates are only 3 games back. Seriously. After the Reds ran off 10 in a row, and have a stupid winning percentage of late, how does that happen?
I’m interested to see how Dusty mangaes the rotation given the addition of Broxton. I’m still not convinced that the Reds won’t need to add a starting pitcher by the waiver deadline. Maybe Broxton will help keep outings short.
I know. I keep looking at the standings and am mystified we haven’t blown out the division. C’mon already! I guess the ol’ mantra about pitching and defense is more than just a saying after all…..
The Pirates have great pitching and to my knowledge, haven’t dealt with the injury bug much. They also played Houston and Chicago teams that were gutted over the last week. That doesn’t hurt their odds…
@zippy: At some point we have to give the Reds players and Coaches a little credit for playing with aches and pains…The JV issue was a tear AND he is our biggest investment, but Valdez a little stiff? Go out and see how it plays out.
At some point, maybe. But not at the point when you’ve recently lost two of your best players because you allowed them to play on nagging injuries. That isn’t the point to allow one of your few remaining infielders to start a game without first having his nagging injury examined.
I’m confused about why there is a complaint about when Marshall should pitch. Isn’t that a good problem to have?
This team is limping along but winning. Ludwick (with a combination of Stubbs) is powering this team right now, let’s hope he stays hot for another week or so!
Cozart is the one guy clearly overwhelmed by his role. In what is becoming typical, last night Coz had the HR and four awful ourts consisting of three pop up (two in foul ground I think) and a three pitch strike out . . .
No Votto, now no Phillips (and an injured one the days preceding), no 2nd catcher, a third baseman fighting for a respectable swansong, and the Pirates still can’t pick up a game — that has to mess with their team psyche.
@David: I’m with you on that. Although I remind myself the Reds came back from 2 games behind, so it’s better than it looks in that respect. But the Pirates can slow down any time now. It’s going to start causing problems between my father-in-law (Pirates fan) and me very soon.
For Thursday afternoon:
Paul LF, Stubbs CF, Bruce RF, Rolen 3B, Frazier 1B, Cozart SS, Cairo 2B, Hanigan C, (Cueto P)
Let’s hope Johnny Cueto brings his A game today.
Huh…well that’s unexpected. Obviously I hate Cairo starting at 2B, but we’re playing with 23 men for some reason. Like giving Paul a look at leadoff, but at 34 years old does Ryan Ludwick REALLY need to get the Scott Rolen treatment in these day games? Why won’t Dusty stay with the hot bat? Second time in the last week that Dusty has sat Ludwick after a huge game. At least it’s Cueto Day so hopefully it doesn’t matter much, and Paul has been a very pleasant surprise at the plate.
But Cozart down to 7! Good heavens I think Dusty might just be onto something!
I can just picture the look on Cozart’s face when he saw that lineup card. Pure, unadulterated relief.
Nope. Moving to 7th is going to TOTALLY ruin Cozart’s approach. He won’t have the slightest clue what’s expected of him. I’ll be surprised if he can hit a foul ball. And Stubbs has rarely (if ever) hit with Paul on base, so he’s not going to know what to do either. In fact, I bet some of these guys will require immediate psychological attention for extreme anxiety. And all because Cozart is hitting 7th. Expect absolute pandemonium and chaos today at GABP.
I think weather we want to admit it or not, it’s time to recognize that..
1. Dusty is not going to restructure the lineup card to what “we” think is the best option
2. Given the Reds record..there is zero motivation to even consider changing the lineup order
3. Ludwick was in fact the best and most important move Walt may have made in the offseason
4. The Reds view the DL as something rather never used unless forced to.
5. This team is looking at close to a .600 winning percent during Votto’s DL stint
6. Maybe, just maybe Dusty and Walt know a little more then us on how to run a ML franchise.
WE MUST NOT ADMIT DEFEAT!!!
This has to be the funniest thing I’ve ever read on this site
@dn4192: Cozart to 7th today. I think his performance yesterday might have finally opened Dusty’s eyes. He was obviously pressing, and giving up the final out the way he did might have just drilled into Dusty’s head that your leadoff man is more likely to get that ONE extra AB. Everything’s in total flux right now because of all the injuries. I think when Joey and BP are back some changes will be made. Cozart isn’t going back to the top of the order. And I dont’ know how you can ignore Ludwick at cleanup. You’ve got BP publicly lobbying to bat leadoff. If Dusty really is a “player’s manager” then it should be a pretty easy decision for him. And he won’t even be able to use the “stability” reasoning in his own head because everyone will have been so fluid this past week or so.
@eric nyc: The Reds created the supposed problem of not having a LOOGY by trading Joseph. Or, they could have made a strong push for someone like Choate.
As it is, if they must have a LOOGY, then Arredondo would be the proper choice.
Last night was interesting to note Thom raising the banner of lineup changes when Phillips and Votto were back and Welsh being the “Dusty voice” saying (basically) that they’re winning, don’t mess with it.
@Racine Red: Arredondo is a righty…I don’t get it. Though I’m sure he’s plenty good at getting lefties out. He’s been good at getting most people out this year. Still, Marshall’s the only lefty in there besides Bray.
Again, for THIS YEAR (and that’s as long as Broxton will be here) this is a really good problem to have. We have a bulletproof back end of the bullpen with guys like Arredondo and Simon who would have MUCH larger roles in just about any other bullpen in baseball. I don’t know why youd’ think Joseph would be better. He certainly would have given us more TIME since we’d have him a few more years, but for THIS year we improved the bullpen and it looked positively scary last night. Can’t we just enjoy that?
Arredondo is much better vs lefties than righties; .558 OPS against vs lefties. That’s very good and better than most actual LOOGYs (such as Javier Lopez).
Certainly Marshall is a better LOOGY than Joseph, who’s pitching in AAA. But I’m just saying that as a strict LOOGY Joseph probably could have done the job, and if the idea is to maximize the number of innings that Marshall and Chapman will throw, moving Marshall to a role where he gets one guy out (IF that’s what happens) doesn’t do that. Again, we’ll see what happens when the starters get their act together again. Right now, if they’re going 2, 5, and 6, or whatever it was the last 3 days, there’s no issue in terms of getting innings for the top guys.
How do you know Joseph can even pitch at the MLB level? How do you know what he’s doing to get hitters out in AAA would work at the MLB level?
You saying that Joseph could do the job has no basis in any facts. It reminds me of people crying about trading Zach Stewart for Rolen. How’d that work out?
And again, why do you need to maximize the innings anyone pitches? Just as long as Dusty is managing the pen well enough for us to win, who cares how many innings anyone throws?
How did the Reds know Chapman could close? Frazier could do well? Frazier could handle first? How did they know Hoover could be effective?
All I’m saying is that Joseph’s numbers this year merit a promotion. Does that mean he should be? Not necessarily, based on circumstances. And I’m suggesting he could have been used in very limited circumstances, kind of like Browning for the Cards. And kind of like they wanted to use Bray, only Bray didn’t get the job done.
I wouldn’t be shocked to see Walt ink Broxton to a 2 year deal at somepoint…
@rightsaidred: Or the Pirates are saying… we’ve taken their best shot and their due for a let down.
@dn4192: Well if the plan really is to move Chapman to the rotation next year then Broxton would be a nice replacement as closer.
@Racine Red: Again, it’s a good problem to have. If Broxton was clearly inferior to Marshall I’d say we had a legitimate issue to worry about, but I think at the absolute least they’re roughly the same talent-wise and throwing from opposite sides. So that gives us a TON of flexibility and a really great 1-2 punch to set up Chapman. And, as others have said, I’m not sure any of us are really that comfortable with Marshall closing tight games. WIth as much as Chapman has been used lately, adding a PROVEN closer that can take some of that workload when the consecutive days start piling up is a solid move. I don’t think we’re going to carry this kind of bullpen makeup into next season, but given the slew of injuries and unexpected shuffling that has happened (not to mention the results) I’m not going to stress about it. If anything it means all three of those guys are fresher come October and that’s a good thing.
@dn4192:
They tried it earlier this year and the results were less than stellar.
@CI3J: “tried” being a very subjective word.
@Chad Dotson: So, yes, the 7th inning is less important than the 8th?
Who has ever said that?
Dusty Baker is an old school baseball guy. There are a lot of things about old school baseball guys that annoy me (and many of you) and that’s jus tthe way it is. There are also some things I totally get. Dusty Baker is also a major league baseball manager whose job it is to win games. More than that, at this point in his career and in his current position, his job is to win a World Series. High expectations. Dusty Baker likes to have a closer. The ONE guy he knows he can go to in the 9th inning with a 1 run lead and shut the door. Saber metrics might show all of us on the internet how you don’t necessarily NEED one person in that role, how the job can be split up, etc. But we’re not the ones sitting in the dugout in that 9th inning. Imagine if every day at your job at 4:45 PM someone walked into your office, stared you right in the eye, and said “For the next 15 minutes you’re not going to know if your work today was perfectly acceptable or a TOTAL ABJECT FAILURE THAT COULD EFFECT YOUR ENTIRE CAREER.” Every day. Don’t you think it might be forgivable for you to like to have some small shred of comfort that made you feel like at least MOST days that was going to turn out alright for you?
I’m by NO means a Dusty apologist. I think anyone who has seen me post here knows that perfectly well. But with the whole closer debate, I totally understand where he’s coming from and I give him a ton of slack. Do I wish Chapman had been in the rotation from day 1? Absolutely. But at this point in the season I’m fine with Dusty having his security blanket, and you can’t argue with the results.
@Jared: I think it’s been established that what people mean is that it’s not about the 7th/8th inning being less important: But will Dusty be more reluctant to use Marshall in any given important situation simply based on who he now has in his bullpen going forward? The worry is that Marshall’s skills will get overlooked for the sake of “roles.”