Loading ...The games this weekend against Atlanta are virtually sold out; the Enquirer has a couple of stories, here and here, about that fact. I have a question, though: why does Milwaukee get better crowds than Cincinnati?
I have my opinions on the matter, but I was interested in your thoughts. Reds fans are already watching on television and listening on radio. How much prolonged winning is it going to take before the Reds start getting crowds like the Brewers get on a regular basis?
It’s been posted here before, but games in Milwaukee are an event in and of themselves for fans. Miller Park is A)Beautiful B) Very fan friendly C)Provides the opportunity that you always know there is a game D)Parking is easy, both in an out, right onto expressways.
Because it’s off on its own little island and not downtown proper, the parking lots surround the stadium and tailgating is encouraged. ‘Nuff said about that in Packer-land and a stadium named after beer.
And, in terms of sports interest in Wisconsin, I think I’d have to go 1)Packers 2)Brewers 3)Bucky Badger. In otherwords, not a lot of competition in the summer for sports fun.
Stars like Braun and Fielder don’t hurt, but the Reds have Votto.
Others have said this elsewhere (and probably here too), but Milwaukee has an area around the stadium that allows tailgating. I’m not sure how much of a difference that makes, but it’s probably at least a little. People go to hang out with their friends and then catch a game. Nothing like that in Cincinnati.
I’m curious to hear what everyone says.
Having just spent 3 days in Milwaukee for the series (and the gluttony of food and drink that comes with a trip out of town) and seeing a team that is out of it rake in 30 plus for a Mon-Wed series and the many arguments I had with my brother on why Cincinnati doesn’t have this and what will it take to get us to that point… Etc. I was excited to see this weekends battle vs the Braves looks to be sold out!
I’ve been to 14 parks and Miller Park is my favorite, hands down. Milwaukans are the nicest (almost oddly so) fans/people out there. Always shaking your hand asking how you like their city, ballpark, sausages etc. This becomes a problem when you stop into a watering hole after a game and the ENTIRE bar wants to talk with you and welcome you to their fair city by buying you countless amounts. Tuesdays and Wednesdays games where won easily by the Redlegs and the majority of fans stay throughout and cheer and stand for base hits by the Brew Crew like it was the first inning. I could go on and on about the sense of how Brewers fans all have the sense of family and community, but I’ll stop there for fear it’ll sound like I’m converting to Brewer fan (eek).
That said, there is NOTHING like being at a sold out GABP. I’ll be there Saturday night at 7pm… that is the first pitch time, right?
@Matt WI: You beat me to it. I almost mentioned that the stadium isn’t downtown too. Reds fans that live in the suburbs and want to go to a game have to think about making the trip downtown, finding parking, etc. Like Matt said, it’s easier in Milwaukee.
Plus, I’m pretty sure getting a Brewers or Packers shirt is standard issue if you are born in a Wisconsin hospital.
Jason is right… most fans are great, it’s kind of a cultural thing. Plus, Milwaukee draws easily from the Madison market too, as Wisconsin’s population density favors the south half of the state.
I have been accosted by a drunken guy while standing in line to go to the bathroom while at a Reds vs Brewers game last year, but you’ll have that anywhere there is a lot of alcohol.
I’m going to all 3 games vs the Pirates Monday, Tuesday, and Wed. But that’s here in in Pittsburgh.
@Matt WI: That was also a observation of ours this week, the amount of Brewers player t-shirts, jerseys, etc. It seems everyone is wearing Brewers gear. The sense of community and family in the ballpark I would have to believe stems from the tradition of tailgating in Wisconsin. It’s such an odd feeling walking around with a open Miller High Life right up to the turnstiles. If anyone has watched The Wire I likened it to Hamsterdam but instead of crack it’s alcohol in the parking lots. Bonging beers, chugging contests, hard liquour, etc. Everyone walking and talking and DRINKING. Yet, no sense of security and nobody was fighting or causing a ruckus in or out of stadium. Milwaukans are either the freindiest folk in all the land or have the highest tolerance for debauchery. I’m guessing it’s both.
@Jason: Gotta love a Hampsterdam reference. Though does that mean that Bud Selig is Bunny Colvin?
(Though I do like the idea of Prince Fielder = Namond Brice).
I’m curious to hear perspective from those that are around Cincy and can attend games there (sadly, I haven’t been to GABP in years since I moved out of Ohio)about what that culture has been like.
VERY nicely done. And yes, Bud Selig is Bunny Colvin in this equation.
We’re heading down tonight. I’ll let you know how it goes.
A) Cincinnati is Bengal town, not Reds..;-)
B) Reds last sniffed the playoffs when?
C) Miller park is a A+ park with no chance of weather impacting the game, GABP is a B- ballpark
D) Reds fans are some of the most jaded fans in the game. They live in the past and want the present team to equal the BRM era level performance before they support it.
E) History over the past 20 years of ownership carrying more about bottom line over winning.
Man, how did Cincinnati take such a great initiative with vision and future planning (both rare for this bass ackwards place) in the Stadium drives, and turn it into two completely ‘meh’ and inconvenient sports arenas?
GABP is physically separated from everything, so it’s not easy to envision combining going to a game with something else. I guess that might be changing with the construction going on right next door.
The Reds have lost for so long it has gradually eroded their season ticket base, which is really the key factor in overall attendance rates.
Otherwise, I blame it on Willy Taveras.
The three sell-outs this weekend are really exciting, but the three-game series against St. Louis August 9-11 should be even better. Can’t wait.
@dn4192: IDK if I would call GABP a B-. Theres no glaring weaknesses to GABP. It’s astheticly (sp?) open and nice, with the riverboat theme and huge scoreboard. It might not compare to Miller Park, but I don’t think the stadium itself has anything to do with people not coming out.
Best answer yet. Well done.
@Steve: Yes I’m pumped for that series. I’ll be at the Businessman’s Special on the 11th.
@RiverCity Redleg: I was just looking for tickets on the 11th. There are some remaining, but not necessarily entire sections empty like for some games.
I’ve been to maybe eight Reds games at GABP, and it’s a fairly nice stadium, but there’s nothing terribly exciting about the atmosphere or game experience. I don’t know if I can put my finger on exactly what needs to be done, but I have enjoyed Wrigley and Miller Park more than GABP.
OT: Just think how much easier our six remaining games against the Astros will seem if they trade Lance Berkman in addition to the already-departed Roy Oswalt.
A B- to me is being generous. I have had the opportunity to visit a number of ballparks over my time, and GABP is nice, it doesn’t compare well to PNC, Tiger Stadium or Miller Park, all new stadiums also. Given they had the opportunity to something very special, I think the place is okay but not special. Plus I do believe in part the park can effect attendance, not greatly but can play a role.
now if we can get those pesky Cards to deal either Carpenter or Wainwright or both so they can get some more offense on their team, I would really feel better about our situtation.
I agree that GABP is nothing special, aesthetically speaking. Way too much exposed concrete, and all the white metal railings should really be red (which would require more frequent repaintings, which is why they aren’t red). Also, the Reds should offer to defray some of the cost to repaint the Taylor-Southgate Bridge red the next time it needs another coat, but they never will because it’s owned by Kentucky. But how cool would that look in the background? Also, would it kill the Reds to maintain the planters on the concourse outside the bleacher gates?
However, GABP never should have been built where it is, and should have instead been built at Broadway Commons. I realize that horse ran out of the barn a long time ago, but it still irks me. I don’t think the 2001 riots would have happened if the ballpark had been under construction up there, and the burgeoning entertainment district was spreading and providing job opportunities to some neighborhood residents. But I digress.
Reds fans do live in the past and unfairly compare any current team to the Big Red Machine, but I think the attendance spikes this year and in ’99 show they’re willing to give their hearts to a proven winner. If they stay in contention ’til the end this year and make a go of it next year, both of which seem likely, they’ll bring a lot of momentum to the opening of the Banks project starting next spring. That will completely change the equation, attendance-wise.
Travis I couldn’t agree more that the stadium was built in the wrong location. Plus the stadium design for the other site was much better. But hey now we get a casino there to spend our money pre and post Reds games…
This still bugs me. On a related note, I find it funny that some are attributing the Brewers’ success to Miller Park’s middle-of-nowhere location. That may be true, but only due to the Brewers’ unique-to-baseball tailgating culture.
In other news, the Phillies FLEECED the Astros in that Oswalt trade. Uncle Walt REALLY needs to get on the phone before all the good stuff is gone.
I live downtown and go to roughly 20-25 games a year. I think dn4192 hit all the key points, with the main one being (since we are comparing to Milwaukee) that every home game they have will not be impacted by weather. I personally like open air stadiums much better, but one of the main reasons I never buy ticket packages, season tickets etc is due to the unpredictable weather factor in Cincy. It seems the main difference in total attendance at the end of the yr between Milwaukee & Cincy will be the season ticket base and knowing the game you bought tickets for will be played with no delays + Milwaukee’s playoff push a few yrs back all helps.
Frankly, I think the attendance issue is overblown (ranking 21st or whatever). Going into virtually every season you will have 10 teams ahead of the Reds solely on market/city size NY x 2, Boston, Chi x 2, Philly, LA x 2, and StL being the midwest exception–and if you replaced the Cards last decade + with the Reds experience that story maybe reversed to some degree between the two cities.
As for GABP, B- is pretty accurate, hard to really complain about it but nothing special. Only suggestion I would give the Reds would be to lower the field box? sec of tickets that extend past 3rd/1st base lines down to the foul pole. Those are $34 tix and for weekday gms, that price is excessive + it gives the feeling to the TV viewers no one is at the game
True, but you can’t blame them for understanding their market.
And it’s not really “middle of nowhere” (I think of the Cavs in Richfield, OH instead of downtown). It’s right off of I94 well within the city limits, it’s just not built in a downtown city block. No you can’t go to bars and walk to the game, but it sounds like that’s a simlar complaint in in Cincy, minus the awesome parking.
Jim Bowden just took credit on XM radio for moving Joey Votto to first base. Is that true?
That may be how he remembers it happening. So, no, probably not true.
I just checked, and you can no longer get a pair of seats for tonight’s game. Only SRO is available.
Okay, Reds, the fans are showing up. Make sure you do too!
@RiverCity Redleg:
I don’t know that it affects attendance, but by way of what I can compare it to, I’d say a B- is fair. The batter’s eye building is really, really awful, as is the riverboat addition.
What is out there that we would want or need?
@dn4192:
Amongst current stadiums I’ve been to, PNC Park and Oriole Park would get A’s, Citizen’s Bank Park an A-, Nationals Park a B+, GABP a B-, and Wrigley an F.
I would agree with the batters eye, but the ship construction on top is at least something unique. What bums me about the stadium is it’s blandness. Had they gone with brick, it would have given it something. Had they done something with the field so it had something unique about it. I would have elevated the pitchers pen to the level where the fans were on the same level. I would have put the sun deck so that it’s lowest level was on field level itself.
Wrigley gets an A+, how can you not like Wrigley, the area around it and such. I would give the following park review:
Miller: A
Tiger Stadium: B+
PNC: A
Camden yards – A+
White Sox Field – C
Fenway – A+
Old Yankee – A
Vet – D
Shea – D-
County Stadium – C
Old Tiger Stadium -A+
Fulton County – C-
3 Rivers – D
Riverfront – D-
Old Comiskey – A
I’m super excited that the Reds are sold out, but…and I hate to be a downer here…the Braves are a good road draw. Or at least I’m under the impression that they are. I foresee many Braves jerseys at the game tonight and tomorrow.
Together, we got there. It’s convenient, but there’s nothing there.
Brandon Phillips’ car (Not Safe for Eyes)
http://jalopnik.com/5600476/this-is-the-purple-audi-r8-brandon-phillips-was-arrested-in
Ok… Speaking from someone who lives about 5 minutes from Miller Park and went to about 25 games the past two years, the answer is relatively simple and Matt explained things well.
Miller Park is easily accessible to anyone who goes. No matter where I’ve parked, I’m always out of one of the many, many lots in under five minutes. Additionally, there are a number of bars on Bluemound Rd. just north of the stadium. Bars also have lots of shuttles running to and from Miller Park.
As much as Brewers fans belittle Cubs fans, I don’t see much of a distinction. The Wrigleyville neighborhood party scene is incredibly similar to the Brewers’ tailgaiting lots. The place is a party. Milwaukee is incredibly underated as a summertime destination. My guess is that the median age of Brewers goers is a good 10 years younger than in Cincinnati.
I think the demographics play into this as well. Cincinanti’s economy has been hard hit, more so than Milwaukee.
Miller Park is an event all on its own. People don’t really go to watch baseball. They go for the atmosphere on a summer night before heading out again. Of all the parks that I’ve been to, and I’ve been to many, Miller Park is far and away my favorite.
What I hear is that Miller Park is awesome because you can easily drive there to get drunk, watch some baseball, and then drive home without too much hassle.
Wow Rangers make another move adn get Guzemen from the nationals. How does a team in bankruptcy make all these moves?
I was just looking over my “record” bringing the Reds good fortune in the first person and hadn’t realized the Reds are 14-3 in the 17 games I’ve attended this year. So maybe all that stuff about magic Scott Rolen is overstated.
April 5 St.Louis LOSS – Opening Day
April 11 Stupid Cubs – WIN – Leake game #1
April 20 Dodgers – WIN
April 25 Padres – WIN
May 8 Stupid Cubs – WIN
May 15 Cardinals – WIN – Leake beats Wainwright
May 17 Brewers – WIN
May 18 Brewers – WIN
May 25 Pirates – LOSS
June 10 Giants – WIN
June 12 Royals – WIN
June 25 Indians – WIN
June 26 Indians – WIN
June 30 Phillies – WIN – Bruce HR beats Halladay
July 17 Rockies – WIN
July 20 Natinals – WIN
July 21 Natinals – LOSS – Strasburg
Hopefully the good luck will continue Friday and Saturday when I’m there this weekend.
Go Reds!
Does anyone know if tailgating is still prohibited in the lot D? I feel like if it was promoted that people would tailgate and play some corn hole before the games.
There is not that sense of community because the nature of seeing a game. You aren’t surrounded by Reds fans until you get to the stadium, and you aren’t going to find many places after the game to celebrate winning with someone else that was at the game.
I have only been to GABP once last September for my birthday. My first ballgame in over 10 years. Walking up to it flooded me with such a feeling I haven’t had about baseball since I was young. The park while not anything unique is so much better then Riverfront. Had my first beer and coney at a ballgame. Got to see Stubbs and Hanigan smack homers. Eventually Marlins came back and won but it was still a great day. Rekindled my love for the Reds been following ever since. Now birthday coming up soon and wanting to go to a game. Bad timing really not much money and tickets starting to become more sparse and expensive.
The Reds need Guzman more to replace OC.
The Pirates are close to trading Paul Maholm to the Padres.
Here this article talking about the reds have a ‘remote chance on Ted Lilly.http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/dodgers-discussing-deal-for-lilly-theriot.html
@lukeukcrazy: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/dodgers-discussing-deal-for-lilly-theriot.html
I am getting frustrated that we don’t seem to be going after any of this starting pitching. IMO this team could use a starter to shore things up.
lots of good answers on the attendance question. For me it’s real simple – put a winning team on the field and the fans will come…and not just for half a season either. If the Reds stay in this race all year and put a good team on the field again next spring attendance will start to rise dramatically. It’s just gonna take a little while for people to get over the past 10 years and believe that the Reds are for real.
The best thing this team could to to improve its post season chances are the same things it needed to do at the beginning of the season: find a long term viable solution for SS or LF. The parts to address either of those needs just aren’t there for the trading.
I agree. If you win, people will come. I don’t necessarily think the look of the stadium has much to do with it. Everyone seems to agree that Pittsburgh is one of the nicest parks in the league, yet, look at their dismal attendance each night. If you win, you could play in a dump and still draw fans I believe. I think Milwaukee having a good run a few years back and making the playoffs helped a lot. They had some young players on that team (Braun and Fielder) that fans got attached too during that season and it has carried over. Plus, they still remain somewhat competitive, though not so much this year. If the Reds can make the post season this year, I believe that will translate into growing attendance numbers for next season. The more we gradually increase this season, the more fans will get attracted to our young stars (Votto, Phillips, Bruce, leake, Cueto, etc..) and perhaps be drawn in for future seasons.
Outside of Lee, whom is out there that we are missing on that would help?
See Chris Heisey for the LF slot
@dn4192:
I would absolutely be calling on the Cubs for Ted Lilly. He is a proven entity. I would say our starting rotation has some question marks down the stretch. The Reds have a couple of rookies in the rotation who will see their innings cut. Harang’s effectiveness has been questionable. Volquez is a major question mark. Who knows about Homer. I really don’t understand why this team is not trying to get a good starter.
Lilly would at least be a very, solid #3 down the stretch and would not force the team rely the team to rely on a best case scenario down the stretch.
I would only add Lilly if it cost us maybe a low A and AA player at most. He is coming off an injury, is not real sharp and is kinda expensive. Also I would rather see Malloney or Lecure be brought up if needed and let them pitch. Also I don’t see Lilly being any better then a Healthy Harang at this point.
@dn4192: Couldn’t agree more. At this point, I think I agree with Arroyo, all the parts are in place. Of course, he didn’t say it, but it sure would help if those pieces were managed a little better.
I would take Lilly over Harang any day. Take a look at the numbers. They are not even close. Lilly’s run support has been awful.