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	<title>Comments on: Three Catchers or Willy Taveras</title>
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	<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/</link>
	<description>A Cincinnati Reds Blog &#124; Dishing out hot, creamy bowls of bloggy goodness</description>
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		<title>By: Matt McWax</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1910861</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt McWax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 00:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1910861</guid>
		<description>We have three better options.  We have depth without him.  We need the 40-man spot for something else.  No one will trade for him.  The cost is sunk so why not take care of it now.  Dorn would be a better use of the spot, for example, as a platoon or lefty bench bat.  See his numbers in &#039;09 from June-September.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have three better options.  We have depth without him.  We need the 40-man spot for something else.  No one will trade for him.  The cost is sunk so why not take care of it now.  Dorn would be a better use of the spot, for example, as a platoon or lefty bench bat.  See his numbers in &#8216;09 from June-September.</p>
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		<title>By: preach</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906986</link>
		<dc:creator>preach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:41:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906986</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1906923&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dan&lt;/a&gt;: 


Throw in a jar of mustard and PTBNL and I&#039;ll give you Mike Lincoln as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1906923" rel="nofollow">Dan</a>: </p>
<p>Throw in a jar of mustard and PTBNL and I&#8217;ll give you Mike Lincoln as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906923</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 19:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906923</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-1906907&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1906907&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;GRF&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: I am very late to this thres, but what stood out to me is that you could say “blank or Willie Taveras” and pretty much fill in the blank with anything and I would take it. 12th pitcher, 3rd catcher, ham sandwich, it would all be good.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Mmmm... I do like a good ham sandwich now and then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-1906907">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-1906907" rel="nofollow">GRF</a></strong>: I am very late to this thres, but what stood out to me is that you could say “blank or Willie Taveras” and pretty much fill in the blank with anything and I would take it. 12th pitcher, 3rd catcher, ham sandwich, it would all be good.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Mmmm&#8230; I do like a good ham sandwich now and then.</p>
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		<title>By: GRF</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906907</link>
		<dc:creator>GRF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906907</guid>
		<description>I am very late to this thres, but what stood out to me is that you could say &quot;blank or Willie Taveras&quot;  and pretty much fill in the blank with anything and I would take it.  12th pitcher, 3rd catcher, ham sandwich, it would all be good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am very late to this thres, but what stood out to me is that you could say &#8220;blank or Willie Taveras&#8221;  and pretty much fill in the blank with anything and I would take it.  12th pitcher, 3rd catcher, ham sandwich, it would all be good.</p>
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		<title>By: preach</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906689</link>
		<dc:creator>preach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 02:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906689</guid>
		<description>&quot;My biggest disappointment was with his defense. I do not care what the metrics say. How many times did he run all the way to the wall, to have the ball carom past him for a triple ? It seemed like a nightly event. How many times did the other team take an extra base on his weak arm ?&quot;

I know I&#039;m on record regarding this point when he was first acquired. People were pointing to metrics, and by watching him play about 50 games a year with Houston and Colorado it was clear, absolutely stinking clear, that his defense was not as good as what we let go of. His speed covered some errors, that&#039;s all. He&#039;s another proof that defensive stats are dubious at best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My biggest disappointment was with his defense. I do not care what the metrics say. How many times did he run all the way to the wall, to have the ball carom past him for a triple ? It seemed like a nightly event. How many times did the other team take an extra base on his weak arm ?&#8221;</p>
<p>I know I&#8217;m on record regarding this point when he was first acquired. People were pointing to metrics, and by watching him play about 50 games a year with Houston and Colorado it was clear, absolutely stinking clear, that his defense was not as good as what we let go of. His speed covered some errors, that&#8217;s all. He&#8217;s another proof that defensive stats are dubious at best.</p>
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		<title>By: pinson343</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906683</link>
		<dc:creator>pinson343</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 01:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906683</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1906591&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;JustTheFacts&lt;/a&gt;: 
Thanks, JustTheFacts, and good point about Hopper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1906591" rel="nofollow">JustTheFacts</a>:<br />
Thanks, JustTheFacts, and good point about Hopper.</p>
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		<title>By: J-DUBB</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906649</link>
		<dc:creator>J-DUBB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 23:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906649</guid>
		<description>I think leaving Tavares on the roster is the right decision. He&#039;s insurance...If someone were to get hurt in training camp (i.e. Stubbs, Dickerson, Bruce) he would give depth in the OF to begin the season. Of course, if you could move him that would be great, but nobody&#039;s going to want to take on a 4 million dollar contract for a mediocre player (unless we pay like 3 of the 4 mil.). Let him go to training camp, let the OFs fight for their jobs and if he doesn&#039;t perform cut him loose before the season begins. His roster spot can then be given to a non-roster invite or an early season acquisition to add depth to the roster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think leaving Tavares on the roster is the right decision. He&#8217;s insurance&#8230;If someone were to get hurt in training camp (i.e. Stubbs, Dickerson, Bruce) he would give depth in the OF to begin the season. Of course, if you could move him that would be great, but nobody&#8217;s going to want to take on a 4 million dollar contract for a mediocre player (unless we pay like 3 of the 4 mil.). Let him go to training camp, let the OFs fight for their jobs and if he doesn&#8217;t perform cut him loose before the season begins. His roster spot can then be given to a non-roster invite or an early season acquisition to add depth to the roster.</p>
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		<title>By: erik</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906639</link>
		<dc:creator>erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 22:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906639</guid>
		<description>three catchers would be better than three centerfielders</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>three catchers would be better than three centerfielders</p>
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		<title>By: JustTheFacts</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906591</link>
		<dc:creator>JustTheFacts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 20:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906591</guid>
		<description>Okay, one last thing... To add insult to injure (pardon the pun) the Reds released the a real bunter, Norris Hopper, to get open a spot when they picked Taveras up.  Enjoy that.

By the way, Pinson, nice sum up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, one last thing&#8230; To add insult to injure (pardon the pun) the Reds released the a real bunter, Norris Hopper, to get open a spot when they picked Taveras up.  Enjoy that.</p>
<p>By the way, Pinson, nice sum up.</p>
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		<title>By: Travis G.</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906573</link>
		<dc:creator>Travis G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906573</guid>
		<description>I thought his body language from about July onward indicated that he&#039;d given up, and his teammates seemed to avoid him like the stink was contagious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought his body language from about July onward indicated that he&#8217;d given up, and his teammates seemed to avoid him like the stink was contagious.</p>
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		<title>By: pinson343</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906539</link>
		<dc:creator>pinson343</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906539</guid>
		<description>Taveras isn&#039;t attending RedsFest, maybe that&#039;s a good sign. 

It&#039;s more than in vogue to dump on him here, it&#039;s an obsession, and there&#039;s a reason for it. 
For whatever reason, he did not seem to want to play last year. I believe he had a leg problem for most of the season. He was so cautious about trying to steal, what sense does that make ? The injury scenario  comes back to management. Why would you put Taveras out there (with a bad leg) every day ? It takes away his entire game.

Watching him play, he&#039;s just not a good player. People say he should draw more walks. He can&#039;t draw walks, pitchers pitch to him like he&#039;s the opposing pitcher. When he&#039;d take pitches he&#039;d quickly be 0-2.

He&#039;s supposed to be a very good bunter. But when that&#039;s the only way he can get on, it takes the bunt hit away. And when the situation called for a sac bunt, he couldn&#039;t do it.

My biggest disappointment was with his defense. I do not care what the metrics say. How many times did he run all the way to the wall, to have the  ball carom past him for a triple ? It seemed like a nightly event. How many times did the other team take an extra base on his weak arm ?

I don&#039;t like the tendency of blogs to pick a scapegoat. I complained in 2008 that when Corey would do something good, it wouldn&#039;t be mentioned. Last year I complained in the same way about Gonzo.
But Taveras plays like he doesn&#039;t have a clue and like he doesn&#039;t care anyway, I can&#039;t tolerate that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Taveras isn&#8217;t attending RedsFest, maybe that&#8217;s a good sign. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s more than in vogue to dump on him here, it&#8217;s an obsession, and there&#8217;s a reason for it.<br />
For whatever reason, he did not seem to want to play last year. I believe he had a leg problem for most of the season. He was so cautious about trying to steal, what sense does that make ? The injury scenario  comes back to management. Why would you put Taveras out there (with a bad leg) every day ? It takes away his entire game.</p>
<p>Watching him play, he&#8217;s just not a good player. People say he should draw more walks. He can&#8217;t draw walks, pitchers pitch to him like he&#8217;s the opposing pitcher. When he&#8217;d take pitches he&#8217;d quickly be 0-2.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s supposed to be a very good bunter. But when that&#8217;s the only way he can get on, it takes the bunt hit away. And when the situation called for a sac bunt, he couldn&#8217;t do it.</p>
<p>My biggest disappointment was with his defense. I do not care what the metrics say. How many times did he run all the way to the wall, to have the  ball carom past him for a triple ? It seemed like a nightly event. How many times did the other team take an extra base on his weak arm ?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t like the tendency of blogs to pick a scapegoat. I complained in 2008 that when Corey would do something good, it wouldn&#8217;t be mentioned. Last year I complained in the same way about Gonzo.<br />
But Taveras plays like he doesn&#8217;t have a clue and like he doesn&#8217;t care anyway, I can&#8217;t tolerate that.</p>
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		<title>By: JustTheFacts</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906513</link>
		<dc:creator>JustTheFacts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906513</guid>
		<description>My final thought for this thread, is please don&#039;t bring in a Rule 5 guy who is going to occupy a spot on the bench and not contribute.  Drop Taveras, leave Sutton in Louisville and pick up a stinken power bat in the market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My final thought for this thread, is please don&#8217;t bring in a Rule 5 guy who is going to occupy a spot on the bench and not contribute.  Drop Taveras, leave Sutton in Louisville and pick up a stinken power bat in the market.</p>
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		<title>By: mr mules</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906502</link>
		<dc:creator>mr mules</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 17:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906502</guid>
		<description>sent w t down rto louisville, maybe he&#039;ll retire</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sent w t down rto louisville, maybe he&#8217;ll retire</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906472</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906472</guid>
		<description>By the way, I just found this on mlbtraderumors.com.  I know that there&#039;s no guarantee that the Red Sox will actually make this switch, but progressive teams consider it.  Unlike the Reds (with Phillips), of course...



The Red Sox asked Dustin Pedroia if he&#039;d be able to play shortstop, according to ESPN&#039;s Peter Gammons.  Pedroia&#039;s thoughts:

&quot;They&#039;ve put it out there and I&#039;ve told them I&#039;m all for it. I can do it. I can&#039;t wait for Tito [Terry Francona] to call me and ask, &#039;Can you do it?&#039; I can do it. I really want to do it.&quot;

Right now it appears that the Red Sox are just considering the switch for Pedroia.  As Gammons notes, shifting Pedroia would create flexibility, allowing the Sox to pass on Marco Scutaro and pursue Orlando Hudson or even Brandon Phillips.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, I just found this on mlbtraderumors.com.  I know that there&#8217;s no guarantee that the Red Sox will actually make this switch, but progressive teams consider it.  Unlike the Reds (with Phillips), of course&#8230;</p>
<p>The Red Sox asked Dustin Pedroia if he&#8217;d be able to play shortstop, according to ESPN&#8217;s Peter Gammons.  Pedroia&#8217;s thoughts:</p>
<p>&#8220;They&#8217;ve put it out there and I&#8217;ve told them I&#8217;m all for it. I can do it. I can&#8217;t wait for Tito [Terry Francona] to call me and ask, &#8216;Can you do it?&#8217; I can do it. I really want to do it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Right now it appears that the Red Sox are just considering the switch for Pedroia.  As Gammons notes, shifting Pedroia would create flexibility, allowing the Sox to pass on Marco Scutaro and pursue Orlando Hudson or even Brandon Phillips.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/11/30/three-catchers-or-willy-taveras/#comment-1906471</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=10419#comment-1906471</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-1906467&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Drew Nelson&lt;/a&gt;: Good question.  I guess the allure of speed... the allure of 68 SB... the allure of that one year he batted .320... it&#039;s all enough to entice some teams.  (Particularly teams that value speed over getting on base, like our very own Reds.)

The Reds talked themselves into thinking that if they could just change Willy&#039;s approach (get him to hit the ball on the ground more) he&#039;d go right back to being a .300 hitter.  (Thank you, Jamie Quirk!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-1906467" rel="nofollow">Drew Nelson</a>: Good question.  I guess the allure of speed&#8230; the allure of 68 SB&#8230; the allure of that one year he batted .320&#8230; it&#8217;s all enough to entice some teams.  (Particularly teams that value speed over getting on base, like our very own Reds.)</p>
<p>The Reds talked themselves into thinking that if they could just change Willy&#8217;s approach (get him to hit the ball on the ground more) he&#8217;d go right back to being a .300 hitter.  (Thank you, Jamie Quirk!)</p>
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