Loading ...Friday, November 20 is the deadline for teams to file their 40-man roster reserve lists for the December 10th Rule 5 Draft. Players are not required to be protected on a club’s reserve list until they’ve been under club control for 4 or 5 years, depending on the age they signed. For this year’s draft, minor league college draftees from the 2006 draft class (or earlier) and high school players drafted in 2005 (or earlier) can be selected by other organizations if they are not on the Reds 40-man roster today.
Teams cannot protect additional (minor league) players after today, but they could create roster space to add players in the draft. The worst example of this in recent Reds history is dropping Jorge Cantu in 2007 for the opportunity to select Sergio Valenzuela.
The Reds 40-man roster currently sits at 36 players. The Reds 40-man roster and organizational depth chart is outlined on the Redleg Nation Big Board over in the right sidebar. The only roster change since the last update is that Kip Wells filed for free agency.
Travis Wood, Chris Heisey, and Chris Valaika are the clear favorites to take three of the current four roster openings. Logan Ondrusek made his way through multiple levels this season, finishing in the Louisville closer’s role and was sent to the Arizona Fall League. He’s likely to take the 4th current opening on the 40-man roster.
The Reds talent depth will likely discourage them from participating in the Rule 5 draft this year. We may even see another move or two today to protect additional minor league players.
They could make space by removing Willy Taveras, Craig Tatum, and Laynce Nix from the roster, and protecting additional arms (like Enerio Del Rosario, Alex Smit, and Ben Jukich) or another bat like Daniel Dorn.
UPDATE 3:50pm: John Fay of the Enquirer and many others are tweeting that the Reds promoted 7 minor league players to their 40-man roster:
- Travis Wood
Chris Valaika
Chris Heisey
Logan Ondrusek
Enerio Del Rosario
Jordan Smith
Philippe Valiquette
To make room for these players, the 40-man roster was reduced from 36 to 33 by waiving Craig Tatum (claimed by Orioles) and Daryl Thompson. They also non-tendered Laynce Nix, who elected to become a free agent.
Alex Smit is a 6 year free agent, so he can’t be added. He filed for free agency a few weeks ago.
Thanks, Doug. I’ve crossed his name out in the original post.
BP identified Smith as one of their potential minor league free agent finds. Maybe they can bring him back.
Would hate to lose Dorn/Rosario/Jukich just to keep a Taveras or Tatum, but it seems possible. Maybe we will pleasantly surprised???
I would kiss Taveras, Nix, and Tatum goodbye to clear room for those mentioned…
I’d hate to loose Nix but you have to protect as much of your young talent as you can.
Why the hate on Tatum? He is better defensively than Hanigan, and perhaps top-tier in the league defensively. Yeah, he can’t hit, but he’s the exact type of back-up you want from your third-string catcher. Plus, he’s still young enough to develop his offensive game to league-average. Catchers with his talent shouldn’t be left unprotected for a gamble on a rule-5 pick or a for a AAA relief pitcher(Del Rosario, Watson, Jukich, etc.).
I’m not intending to “hate on” Tatum by moving him from the 40-man roster. IMO, a 3rd string catcher starting the year in the minor leagues, one who is projected to spend his career as 3rd string with a ceiling as a backup catcher, doesn’t need to remain on the 40-man roster and is not likely to get claimed on waivers.
The way I’m looking at it, should some of these guys that you’d rank 36-40 on the 40-man roster be replaced by some of the players currently sitting 41+?
I don’t think there will be a rush of teams out there wanting to claim Tatum. Unfortunately, catchers who are all glove and no bat is now the norm in baseball. Every team has a Tatum or Miller in their system somewhere.
@GregD: Obviously I’d drop Taveras and Nix for some depth to add players like Ondrusek and Del Rosario, but I wouldn’t give up on Tatum for a reliever. I think you under-value Tatum, especially his level of defense given his age. Plus, there is some pop in Tatum’s bat that has yet to be realized at the higher levels. It’s still there. Anyone who SLG’s over .500 in the FSL has some pop beyond just luck.
You know what the best part of my day is? For about 10 seconds, from when I pull up this site and when the page loads, ’cause I think, maybe I’ll read the top headline and and it’ll say that Willy Taveras got released. No goodbye. No see you later. No nothing. He just left. I don’t know much, but I know that.
@Glenn: I think you’re wrong that team’s won’t want Tatum in the rule-5, and I think you’re wrong to believe that Tatum’s level of defense if the ‘norm’ in baseball. You’ll need to prove that point before I begin to believe it. Furthermore, Tatum and Miller are not equals in my mind. Tatum’s defense has been described by some scouts as a plus-plus tool. Let’s not forget that there are few catchers in MLB with such praise.
sorry for the poor grammar.
@Travis G.: Nice. Haven’t thought about that movie in a while.
If another team is interested in Tatum, they would claim him on waivers to avoid the 25-man roster requirement (and $50k.)
The 40th player I’d keep over Tatum is Dan Dorn. I know not as many are as high on him as I, but I think he could be a real steal for another team. Perhaps he is behind too many other people on the Reds depth chart, but I wouldn’t just give him away for free. I see his potential as a Brian Daubach type player.
I wouldn’t worry too much about this. Very few, if any, players are taken in the Rule V draft. And even if they are, don’t they have to remain on the drafting team’s ML roster for the entire year or else the player is returned to the original team?
Yeah, it’s a slow day at the nation.
Via C. Trent and Mark Sheldon on Twitter, a whole flurry of moves:
Baltimore claims Tatum off waivers, Nix elects FA, Daryl Thompson outrighted and added to the 40-man roster are Del Rosario, Heisey, Ondrusek, Smith, Valaika, Valiquette Travis Wood.
I don’t think Dorn is Major League ready just yet. Could be wrong, but I’m not too worried about another team taking him to add him to their 25 man. Tatum is not Major League ready yet either, but catchers are at a premium this year if you read the Rumors.
Anyone else want to discount Tatum’s value any further? Seems as though Baltimore knows a player when they see one. Not a good move by Walt, IMO. I just don’t understand keeping a bunch of unproven relievers (Del Rosario, Valiquette, Bray) over a defensive-gem in Tatum.
On the bright side, perhaps Smith is fully healthy and a viable starting pitcher again. It would be nice to see him in L’ville sometime next season. Wood, Klinker, and Smith could really make things interesting for our pitching depth in the near future.
I was really hoping they would have cut their losses with Taveras in order to keep someone of value. Oh well, not really surprised they outrighted Thompson because of the injuries, his stock has really fallen.
Wanderin…While you feel we are all under valuing Tatum, I think you are overvaluing him a bit too. He really hasn’t shown in the upper tiers to hit much at all, With Hanigan, Ramon, and Corky he was probably 4th on the depth chart so they took a chance to cut him loose because they never see him as a starter in the majors…
I really hope nobody takes Dorn because I think he can be very useful…however I find it unlikely he can stick in the majors for a full season, so I guess worth the chance…
I disagree that Tatum should be behind Corky Miller. That’s laughable, and Baltimore’s brass likely agree. Heck, if Jason Larue and Paul Bako can be major league back-ups on contending teams, then Tatum could surely be one.
@Travis G.: 10 seconds? Man, you need to upgrade your connection.
And that Good Will Hunting reference just made my day all that much better.
@wanderinredsfan: Well, we can agree to disagree, I don’t see Tatum as anything more than a defensive caddy, and arms are always more important than an at best third string catcher…I will agree his defense is outstanding, but I don’t think his bat will ever come around well enough to produce much.
For the record, if I am running an American League team without a solid DH (and there are more than a few out there who fit that bill), I gobble up Danny Dorn in a freaking heartbeat. The guy has a minor league line of .312/.394/.554 against right handed pitching with a very good walk rate and a solid strikeout rate. Give him 400 at bats against right handers in the majors this year and you will not be sorry that you spent $50,000 + league minimum on him. If he goes undrafted I will seriously question more than a few GM’s in the American League.
@Doug Gray: I agree, he can be a very useful player…It is really amazing how big that split is though, and I wonder if that will scare teams off. I really hope he doesn’t get taken.
Robert Manuel was claimed off waivers by the BoSox from the Mariners.
Re: Taveras, not that he will be cut by Dec 10th, but that is still a possibility for the Reds to participate in the draft.
Protecting 7 players and none of them are Dorn? I think the Reds are either undervaluing him or thinking he’s least likely to be taken.
I guess the thing about Tatum is that in a good year, he may get in 25-30 games in a major league season? He’ll contribute defensively, but I don’t see him hitting at all. He’s only had over .500 slg professionally at that one stop in A+, that was only 200 at-bats. His other 1300+ professional at-bats his slg is around .360.
Looking at next on the catching depth chart, internally, what’s the word on Chris Denove?
@wanderinredsfan:
Yes, the Oriole organization has proven themselves shrewd judges of talent over the last 10 years or so.
Defensive catchers who can’t hit a lick are a dime a dozen in MLB; Tatum wasn’t worth a roster spot.
Looks like the Reds will once again be a minor league team playing in the majors. Walt Jockerty has done no good for this team. No point in thinking 2010 will be any good. Best thing to do is watch for the Louisville Bats to be a winner again.
Again, nothing personal against Tatum, I just don’t think he was worth a roster spot. I don’t see the value in having a 3rd catcher, who sits most of the time or is racking up frequent flyer miles back and forth to AAA. I guess the Orioles do. I’ll bow to their baseball sense and wait to see how that works out.
These were mostly good moves as far as I can tell. I don’t know enough about all the young pichers to be sure. Doug/Greg, any background info on Valiquette ?
Hopefully Dorn doesn’t get grabbed by somebody.
Valiquette has really come a long way. He wasn’t having much success when he first joined the organization, and it seems there is a story behind that. (scroll down to the third story)
He’s pitched well the past two seasons, spanning 117.1 innings and 3 levels of the organization. He needs to cut down on his free passes – 29 in 52 innings last year.
@pinson343: Valiquette’s overall numbers are pretty bad, but it does seem noteworthy that this year his hits allowed went way down. But, as Greg said, lots of walks.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/V/Philippe-Valiquette.shtml
He’s a lefty and he’s 22 and he throws hard (low to mid-90’s according to Doug), so I guess they like his potential.
Based purely on stats, I’d call putting him on the 40-man roster a head-scratcher. But I’ve never seen him pitch.
Valiquette’s numbers
2005-07 vs. 08-09
IP 173.2 to 117.1
ERA 5.55 to 3.14
WHIP 1.68 to 1.39
K/9 6.27 to 8.51
K/bb 1.38 to 1.95
BB/9 4.56 to 4.37
The only rate stat I see worse is
IP/HR 17.4 to 11.7
@GregD: Thanks, Greg. That does look better when you break it down that way.
I guess that makes it more understandable… although still, a guy with an almost 1.4 WHIP in high-A and AA ball doesn’t scream “very good prospect” at me.
We saw Logan Ondrusek pitch in Dayton when he got called up, good relief pitcher…His stats are pretty good for as young as he is.