Comments on: Reds Notes, No Transactions

By: Greg Dafler

Greg Dafler — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 01:56:54 +0000

@erik: Do you think it is because voters think of him as an offense-only player?

By: erik

erik — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:05:03 +0000

those +/- ratings are UZR. you can find that stat at fangraphs. it’s not necessarily reliable for one year, but over a few years you can start to see how good a guy is on the field. Utley has been exceptional, Phillips has been well above average, and hudson has been pretty much average the last few years. Utley will probably never win a GG even though he’s deserved one at least the last 3 years.

By: preach

preach — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 01:40:28 +0000

“No transactions”……sigh

By: pinson343

pinson343 — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:58:05 +0000

Dan: Here it is:http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/what-makes-chase-utley-so-good/

Thanks, Dan.

By: pinson343

pinson343 — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 05:56:48 +0000

preach: Also, based on hitting, why in heck wouldn’t Utley get the award? He’s superior to any other contender in that arena.

Yep that's why I called it an anomaly. I think the above comments are all right on. I can certainly believe that Utley is the best according to the most sophisticated metrics, but he's not flashy like Hudson and Phillips, and even the players are impressed by flash. Still I would rather that Utley was robbed by BP than by Hudson (obvious bias).

By: preach

preach — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:40:20 +0000

Also, based on hitting, why in heck wouldn’t Utley get the award? He’s superior to any other contender in that arena.

By: preach

preach — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:38:42 +0000

Utley’s positioning does indeed merit consideration for GG. He is the absolute best at it. It’s why he doesn’t make all of the athletic plays Hudson and Phillips does, he simply doesn’t have to. However, I can say that I completely agree with Sultan that Utley’s range is not as deep as Phillips. I don’t need the measuring sticks for that. No way Utley gets to the balls in short center that Brandon does, period. However, Utley positions himself so brilliantly that he often has no need to. But we know that flash brings in hardware (Ozzie Smith anyone?).

By: brublejr

brublejr — Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:13:00 +0000

I think Utley got robbed on the GG. Phillips is very good also, but this year Utley was outstanding again. Hudson winning the award is why GG are a joke, just like when Palmeiro won the award playing 19 games in the field. It is based on two things: 1.) Past Reputation (like Hudson this year), 2.) Hitting Ability. The miss more often on this award than any other.

I can’t say I could give an award like this to a player who lost his starting job. They might as well give the SS award to “hands of gold” Castro while they are at it…

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:54:49 +0000

This theory would also explain, by the way, why Utley doesn’t look all that quick or flashy or athletic, but he regularly gets to more balls than anyone else.

Pretty cool breakdown.

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:49:28 +0000

Here it is:

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/what-makes-chase-utley-so-good/

By: Dan

Dan — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:47:41 +0000

There was something very interesting published somewhere (hardballtimes.com maybe?) by John Dewan, the “Fielding Bible” guy, that specifically compared Phillips and Utley.

Dewan’s numbers (I think his is the +/- system) always rate Utley the best defensive 2B.

Anyway, he broke it down in all kinds of ways (plays to his left vs. RHB’s, plays to his left vs. LHB’s, etc.) and basically his numbers made it pretty clear that Utley was superior — VASTLY superior — in one area only, and it was on groundballs to the “pull” side (up the middle for RHB’s, and deep in the 1B/2B hole vs. LHB’s).

His conclusion was that basically Utley does it with positioning — he shades guys to pull more than any other 2B, and therefore gets to FAR more balls on the pull side than any other 2B does.

It was interesting, and compelling.

I’ll go see if I can find it…

By: pinson343

pinson343 — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:44:46 +0000

Last line of my above post should have been deleted.

By: pinson343

pinson343 — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:41:44 +0000

Dan: By the way, I think Torre picked Belliard over Hudson due to hitting.I don’t think anyone would say that Belliard is a better fielder than Hudson, would they?

Torre picked Belliard over Hudson due to the total package. Whatever Hudson's defensive "brilliance" it didn't overrule the benching. It happened very late in the season, so didn't affect the voting. If had happened earlier, of course it would have. Bret Boone was the best defensive 2nd baseman for a couple of years while Biggio was winning gold gloves. Boone had no chance because he would get benched occasionally for a lack of hitting, one year he was briefly sent to the MLs for a lack of hitting. As I've said, it's a popularity contest, and players respected Biggio more. Usually the bias for GG glove is in favor of the better hitter, which makes Utley an anomaly if he really is the best fielding 2nd baseman. None of the above has anything to do with whether BP is a better fielder than Hudson or Utley. I was trying to get a bit of a discussion going and learn what the defensive metrics and fellow bloggers think. Often hitting is a big factor in the voting

By: pinson343

pinson343 — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:26:10 +0000

Dan: I’ve read that as well, Jason.What stats did you use to compare, pinson?

I just used the readily available traditional fielding stats, innings played, putouts, assists, errors, double plays, FA. Their (Hudson, BP) FAs are the same. Phillips had more total chances and also more innings, the chances/innings ratios were about the same. The one big difference was DPs, BP 100 to Hudson's 77. This is weak eveidence, so I asked on the other thread about where Phillips and Hudson rate by defensive metrics (which are also iffy).

By: RiverCity Redleg

RiverCity Redleg — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:37:41 +0000

Free Chris Heisey!!