Comments on: Design The 2010 Reds Bullpen

By: preach

preach — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:23:09 +0000

“I would just like to see some more seasoning. Everybody was eager to give Burton the closer job two years ago.”

Ya’ know, this is a good point. While I understand that many people overvalue closers, I think it’s possible to undervalue them as well. If we do move CoCo, we need to get something very servicable at the major league level to help the team right now, or it just isn’t worth the risk.

By: Travis G.

Travis G. — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:11:04 +0000

Ouch. Sucks for Owings (and Jones), but good for the Reds. He’s a useful pitcher at scale wages, but less so after that.

By: RiverCity Redleg

RiverCity Redleg — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:00:48 +0000

Travis G.: Tim Dierkes is reporting that Micah Owings is a Super 2, after all, which would make him arbitration eligible. I’d have to think they’ll non-tender him.

I saw in the paper today that he will not be given arbitration. He, Adam Jones and Mike Fontenot have the exact same years of service and "tied" for the last arbitration spot, and Fontenot somehow "won" the tiebreaker, leaving Jones and Owings Not Arbitration Eligible.

By: RiverCity Redleg

RiverCity Redleg — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:57:00 +0000

I like Cordero and am not willing to trust closer duty to someone who has never done it before, unless we have to. Masset excelled in the set up role and he is a viable candidate to be a future closer, I would just like to see some more seasoning. Everybody was eager to give Burton the closer job two years ago.

By: Travis G.

Travis G. — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:14:11 +0000

Tim Dierkes is reporting that Micah Owings is a Super 2, after all, which would make him arbitration eligible. I'd have to think they'll non-tender him.

By: Travis G.

Travis G. — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:32:40 +0000

@GregD: That's absolutely true, but I'll trust the consistency of the fairly large sample size he's amassed. Cordero's very valuable, but his 65-70 innings per season are not the best use of the Reds' limited resources. It's too bad that a) Cordero costs so much per season and b) the Reds are so financially hamstrung.

By: GregD

GregD — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:03:39 +0000

Travis G.: I’ll believe Masset can repeat last season’s performance when I see it again. Relievers are just so volatile, given the relatively small samples they produce.

The same (that relievers are just so volatile) is true for Cordero, too.

By: Travis G.

Travis G. — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:51:39 +0000

I’ll believe Masset can repeat last season’s performance when I see it again. Relievers are just so volatile, given the relatively small samples they produce. Look at Burton last season with that nagging injury, and how it cost him so much of the year.

But I do like our depth. I don’t think you really need to do much with the bullpen, unless there’s some bargain left over in January. I’d take a cheap flyer or two on someone to compete for the fifth spot in the rotation, although I’d probably do Dan’s suggested Cordero-Kawakami swap and let the in-house crew fight for the closer’s spot.

By: wanderinredsfan

wanderinredsfan — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:43:57 +0000

@Sultan of Swaff: So, you're going to stand by an argument that Cordero is holding our bullpen together on his own, and that trading him would destroy our bullpen? I don't agree. I think Cordero is replaceable from within (Masset), and that we would do just fine without him.

By: brublejr

brublejr — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:28:32 +0000

@Dan: I would do that in a second. I wouldn't even have to think twice about it.

By: Sultan of Swaff

Sultan of Swaff — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:26:46 +0000

@wanderinredsfan: In the sense that quality bullpens can be constructed on the cheap, I'll agree. But on the whole, I don't see the likelihood of that coming from this group of guys who haven't made the bigs yet. There's nothing in their K/BB ratios that stand out.

By: Sultan of Swaff

Sultan of Swaff — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:20:35 +0000

Given the articles floating around the interwebs, cutting salary by ~$6million seems to be in the cards.
Either Harang, Arroyo, or Coco would take ~$12mil off the books, cutting payroll, while keeping $6mil to replace the guy you trade (the Livian Hernandez effect).
The other scenario is that we eat half of the salary and receive a prospect. This option would weaken us short term and likely remove any delusions we might have about contending in 2010.
Is this fun or what?

By: Steve

Steve — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:16:31 +0000

Trade Cordero. The Reds may have to pay some of his salary, but nowhere near 2/3. Cordero is worth much more than that right now.

We can move one of the LH

By: wanderinredsfan

wanderinredsfan — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:12:19 +0000

@Sultan of Swaff: I am not one bit concerned about the depth behind Cordero. IMO, we have a huge amount of depth within our relief corps. Personally, I’d like to see Cordero, Rhodes, and Lincoln dealt by the summer trading deadline, and go with a cheap corps of our internal relievers.

Masset, Burton, Fisher, Bray, Herrera, Ondrusek, Del Rosario, Watson, and Viola provide plenty of depth to choose from by as early as next season. Plus, there are others (Valiquette, Lutz, Krebs, Thurman, Pearl, Gonzalez) that aren’t too many seasons away from contributing.

I’m going to disagree with your statement that we lack power arms; Viola and Ondrusek both throw mid-90s and can bring it up higher when need be. The velocities of Masset and Fisher aren’t too shabby either. Both can reach above 95 when need be. Let’s face it, Cordero isn’t really bringing much more to the table.

By: GregD

GregD — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:10:53 +0000

Of the 6 players that mlbtraderumors.com lists as closers, 5 of them are Type A free agents. And Cordero is a better closer. If the Reds are going for salary relief, and asking for little talent in return, I could see more teams interested in Cordero than the free agents who are out there.