Dan: OK, I’m going to add one more thing here that is partially arguing against myself…There may be a “face of the franchise” type exception that you have to make for certain guys. If trading Votto would be THAT unpopular, maybe you really can’t do it.I guess the stuff I was saying above ignored the emotional fan base stuff. I was just thinking of making a good baseball value trade. (I’ll stand by what I said based purely on value.)Perhaps I am now exposing that I have been a fantasy baseball GM but never an ACTUAL baseball GM.

Yeah — plus women need to have a reason to want to come to GABP, and Votto provides that better than anyone else on the roster at the moment, I’d guess…
(speaking of “emotional fan-base stuff”)

If we were to consider it, you’re right — you wouldn’t do it just to get good but expensive players.

You’d do it only if you could get very good, young, cheap players who could FILL OUR BIGGEST NEEDS — shortstop, catcher, and/or possibly for a potential ace starting pitcher.

Otherwise, you’re right, probably not worth considering.

In my book, even thinking of trading Votto is high treason. Even though the Reds have to manipulate the sell high/buy low market at their salary level, you still have to maintain a core of a few guys that are still under decent cost control right? I mean, what’s the point of selling high on your best players, especially when it’s motivated by salary dumping… seems to me that you wouldn’t be trading for another All-Star whose salary you can’t afford. I think you only trade away someone like Votto if you think you are nowhere near contention… a la the Pirates.

Otherwise, then you’re stuck with a bunch of young guys who have “awesome minor league numbers” and we “really think they could be great in a few years after they learn how to walk/hit lefties/thow strikes more consistently” Lather, rinse, repeat the whole process. No thank you.

There may be a “face of the franchise” type exception that you have to make for certain guys. If trading Votto would be THAT unpopular, maybe you really can’t do it.

I guess the stuff I was saying above ignored the emotional fan base stuff. I was just thinking of making a good baseball value trade. (I’ll stand by what I said based purely on value.)

Perhaps I am now exposing that I have been a fantasy baseball GM but never an ACTUAL baseball GM.

Also, as good as he is, three things…

–In my opinion, he’s not likely to be as good as he was last year. He’s very very good, but he FAR exceeded his minor league numbers last year. I’d expect a slight regression going forward. Nothing terrible — just more like .290/.380/.520 rather than .320/.410/.570. We might have just seen his career year. His contract is rock-bottom. You do have to consider whether it’s worth it to “sell high” sometimes, painful as the idea may be.

–First base is the easiest position to fill. Good SS’s are scarce. Good C’s are scarce. Good 1B’s are just not that scarce.

–If you’re going to trade either Alonso or Votto (I’m not saying that’s necessary, as Votto probably can play a perfectly fine LF), who has more trade value now? Votto’s value is sky-high. Alonso is still a question mark.

I’m not totally advocating dealing Votto. He’s great, and seems like a good guy too. But I AM saying that having the cajones to consider “selling high” on someone who just put up MVP-like numbers is something you need to do sometimes. It could be genius.

And I’m saying all this as a huge Reds fan and a huge Votto fan.

Every reason that this sounds like madness to most of you is the same reason that some other team might pay an arm and a leg and another leg to get him.

Something to think about anyway…

Next year I would think he’s borderline untradable. Currently, he’s still OK value.

Very good player, but you do need to factor in the upcoming ballooning contract.

Cordero has been great… but paying that kind of money for him with our payroll is madness.

earl: Jay Bruce did show a bit of improvement on taking those inside pitches the other way in his little September stint.I don’t think with his current batting stance he can live on just being a pure pull hitter.

I watched, literally, 90% of Bruce’s at bats last year, live or on TV. I completely agree. In September, for whatever reason, his pitch recognition seemed a lot higher. He would lay off of breaking stuff and/or take it the other way.

He was lunging, badly, and completely clueless pre-injury last year. Only a mistake could be hit. The injury may have been a blessing. You could tell he was really struggling mentally. The best thing to happen to the Reds last year was Bruce’s Sept, because he looked totally different.

I think we’d be wise to keep media expectations low. I think that stuff gets to him. Dusty would be wise to hit him 7th, tell him to play a good RF, and not worry about offensive numbers — just have good at bats.

The Fanhouse article mentions that they will have a decision to make at first, but doesn’t suggest trading Votto. Mlbtradrumors is the one speculating that the Reds would have to include Votto in a deal seeking to move a large salary.

I believe I started the “should the Reds move Votto” comments here yesterday. I would NOT trade Votto this offseason.

My comments were in the context that if Alonso pushes the issue this July or next offseason, then I think it may not be a slam dunk decision as to who you keep and who you trade.

The usual suspects are mentioned as trade candidates, but Votto’s name is also mentioned “an intriguing trade chip.” I can’t access the original post, so I don’t know if Votto is mentioned by the Fanhouse guys or Tim Dierkes’s lackey, but whoever suggested that deserves credit for one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read on the Internet.

Why trade a young, cost-controlled player who’s already great and beloved by fans when you’re trying to cut payroll, compete and sell tickets all at the same time?

earl: Jay Bruce did show a bit of improvement on taking those inside pitches the other way in his little September stint.I don’t think with his current batting stance he can live on just being a pure pull hitter.

Bruce did talk in September about being a hitter, going to all fields, rather than a slugger trying to pull everything. I hope he seriously pursues this approach. BA and OBP would rise without a decline in HRs.

I don’t understand the James projection on Frazier. He’s projecting that Frazier gets that many ABs ? Playing what position(s) ?

I see that James has Harang, Arroyo, and Cueto all a game under .500. What about Homer ?