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Time for a recap of tonight’s titanic struggle….
FINAL –10 innings
San Francisco 8
Cincinnati 5
WP: Howry (1-5)
LP: Cordero (1-3)
S: Wilson (29)
BOX SCORE
POSITIVES
–With one of the worst lineups I’ve ever seen, the Reds went out and dropped five big runs on Tim Lincecum. That’s precisely why I love baseball. Wish the game had ended there.
–Joey Votto took Lincecum deep for his 18th homer. He’s now tied with Jay Bruce for the team lead.
–Jared Burton looked like the Jared Burton of old. That’s a good thing.
–Homer Bailey through the first five innings: awesome.
NEGATIVES
–Homer Bailey after the fifth inning: awful. Good grief, how do the wheels fall off so quickly? I guess that’s what young pitchers do, but it’s frustrating as heck. We need better than that from Homer.
–Via twitter: “@m_sheldon: The misreads in CF by Willy Taveras continue to perplex the mind.”
Taveras is just brutal defensively, not to mention his bat. The fact that Dusty Baker continues to play him is simply baffling. There is no logical defense of Dusty here.
–Sheesh, Francisco Cordero. Can’t we count on you in a tie game?
ETC.
–Jim Kelch is simply great in the broadcast booth. He was on the TV team tonight, but he’s even better in the radio booth. The Reds really need to steal him from Louisville and keep him with the broadcast crew full time. After Marty, he’s the best…by far.
–Why is it that, every time the Reds get five runs or so, they only have six or seven hits? What’s up with that?
–I would prefer to have Corey Patterson in CF instead of Taveras. At least Patterson tried. Taveras clearly has no pride; he refuses to give even a half-effort. Complete lack of professionalism.
And Dusty not only tolerates it, he encourages it by keeping Taveras in the lineup and at the top of the order every single day. Complete incompetence.
It is a complete disgrace that it is going to take an injury to get him out of the lineup. A disgrace.
–Eighteen games under .500. Seventeen games out of first place.
–The Reds have to go 32-12 to have a winning record this year. Conversely, they have to go 12-32 to lose 100 games. Which of those are more likely?
Like I said in the game thread, Bailey may not have given up the home run to Uribe if Taveras didn’t go skipping back to the wall lackadaisically like a school girl.
Is it possible someone else is paying Taveras to not play? And paying Dusty to put him in, coach? He’s so not ready to play…today…
I like Kelch. Keep him up here.
I like Kelch a lot as well. “Marty and Jim” has a nice ring too.
Re: Taveras. A lot of people excuse Dusty’s performance as manager because of this poorly constructed roster, which couldn’t win most beer leagues. I don’t care. That’s no excuse.
Baker’s consistent use of Taveras in a starting role is reason enough for a managerial change. It’s an indicator of his stubbornness, his favoritism, and his blind ignorance to basic statistics. Baseball fans around the country know that Baker is a joke, and so is his favorite center fielder, and frankly, so is the organization who tolerates this garbage. Taveras has no business on a major league roster and Baker has no business managing a team. And frankly, any organization willing to turn a blind eye to this crap has no business affiliating itself with Major League Baseball.
Kelch is very good. (Looks younger than he sounds, btw). I don’t understand how they could possibly need him this much, with 18 other announcers on the payroll, but I’m glad he’s there.
Kelch is very good.
Baker is far too tolerant and the effort or lack of shows that.
Baker is giving no effort.
by the way we are coming very close to the equivalent team-mendoza-line.
That is winning less than 40% of your games
At the current winning %, not even considering their run differential has them finishing worse, here are the last 10 seasons that were worse than this one, so far
2009: 50-67 .427 wpct
W L Ties W-L% Year
50 67 0 0.427 2009
69 93 0 0.426 2003
66 96 0 0.407 2001
61 101 0 0.377 1982
62 92 2 0.403 1949
64 89 0 0.418 1948
61 93 0 0.396 1945
56 98 1 0.364 1937
52 99 1 0.344 1934
58 94 1 0.382 1933
60 94 1 0.390 1932
my point being that not only is this a terrible team with a terrible manager but the bottom line, wins and loses this years team is worse than most in Reds history. When you have to go back 60+ years to find more than 3 seasons worse than this season you know things are bad
win now? how bout lose now
a couple mentions were made in the game thread of Taveras vs Patterson vs the all-time worst Reds OFers. I have been comparing Taveras to the all-time worst Reds but a lot of SS, 2B and catchers get in there who were who often starters because of their defense.
here are the worst RC/G adjusted for league average (not positional average) for Reds OFers with at least 375 PA
RUNS CREATED/GAME YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE
1 Corey Patterson 2008 -2.60 2.51 5.11
2 Jim Canavan 1893 -2.45 4.88 7.33
3 Bobby Tolan 1973 -2.25 2.24 4.49
4 Willy Taveras 2009 -2.18 2.89 5.07
5 Pop Corkhill 1883 -2.06 3.89 5.95
6 Joe Adcock 1951 -2.04 2.96 5.00
7 Taylor Douthit 1932 -1.94 3.09 5.03
8 Adam Comorosky 1934 -1.86 3.37 5.22
9 Eddie Burke 1897 -1.80 4.60 6.40
10 Dain Clay 1944 -1.77 2.91 4.67
Taveras is not close to catching Patterson mostly because of his SB
Remove the SB and look at just hitting
OPS YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE
1 Willy Taveras 2009 -.201 .562 .763
2 Corey Patterson 2008 -.184 .582 .765
3 Bobby Tolan 1973 -.167 .555 .722
4 Taylor Douthit 1932 -.152 .597 .749
5 Jim Canavan 1893 -.131 .622 .753
6 Dain Clay 1944 -.130 .582 .712
7 Adam Comorosky 1934 -.124 .626 .751
8 Paul Householder 1982 -.123 .592 .715
9 Taylor Douthit 1931 -.116 .631 .747
10 Hugh Nicol 1887 -.114 .608 .722
and of course, might as well look at ALL players but lets cut out the pre-1900 because a lot of them couldn’t hit
RUNS CREATED/GAME YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE
1 Hod Ford 1930 -3.70 2.68 6.39
2 Leo Durocher 1930 -3.29 3.10 6.39
3 Hughie Critz 1929 -2.86 3.19 6.05
4 Wally Gilbert 1932 -2.81 2.22 5.03
5 Rocky Bridges 1953 -2.74 2.66 5.40
6 Tommy Helms 1970 -2.64 2.25 4.89
7 Corey Patterson 2008 -2.60 2.51 5.11
8 Virgil Stallcup 1948 -2.56 2.52 5.08
9 Chuck Dressen 1929 -2.50 3.55 6.05
10 Leo Durocher 1931 -2.50 2.55 5.05
11 Roy McMillan 1953 -2.46 2.93 5.40
12 Larry Kopf 1921 -2.43 2.58 5.01
13 Leo Durocher 1932 -2.35 2.68 5.03
14 Jo-Jo Morrissey 1933 -2.31 2.13 4.44
15 Virgil Stallcup 1951 -2.29 2.72 5.00
16 Bobby Tolan 1973 -2.25 2.24 4.49
17 Hod Ford 1928 -2.24 3.06 5.30
18 Ike Caveney 1925 -2.23 3.39 5.62
19 Willy Taveras 2009 -2.18 2.89 5.07
20 Don Blasingame 1961 -2.16 2.77 4.93
the question this raises for me is, how is it that the Reds haven’t started a player this bad in over 30 years until Baker got here now we’ve started TWO players this bad and ignored their futility.
since the all-star break
0.941 E. Encarnacion†
0.922 Jonny Gomes
0.859 W. Balentien†
0.801 J. Hairston Jr.†
0.797 Joey Votto
0.751 Adam Rosales
0.666 C. Dickerson
0.661 B. Phillips
0.613 Laynce Nix
0.579 Drew Sutton
0.540 Alex Gonzalez†
0.500 Willy Taveras
0.442 Ryan Hanigan
0.408 Craig Tatum
0.360 Paul Janish
is it time yet to send Tatum packing and call up Castillo? And try ANYTHING at SS other than Janish (hint hint, Phillips?)
and despite Dickerson poor hitting he’s still got a .340 OBP during that time.
So, what’s wrong with
Dickerson – CF
Hanigan – C
Votto – 1B
Gomes – LF
Balentien – RF
Phillips – SS (get him out of the 4 spot)
Rosales – 3B
Sutton – 2B
just play it every day…don’t worry about who you are facing and if it’s a lefty or a righty. If you need to play Nix put him in as a late defensive replacement for one of the corner OFers. If I’m the GM I tell Dusty do this or walk. Honestly do we need to see Tatum, Janish, Taveras or Nix?
any news on Bruce or Rolen?
Some Reds are in actual danger of not hitting their weight.
not fair! the Reds appear to have mostly players who are in shape!
strange to think about not hitting your weight
probably the closest to doing that are Adam Dunn, Joe Oliver, Austin Kearns, Dave Parker, Sean Casey and Dante Bichette
Didn’t Dunn his below .220 once?
and Oliver below .240?
good thing D Young and Casey were .300 hitters
Just got back from a week at disney with the kids in a good mood (obviously, no reds news down there). Thanks for bringing me gently back to earth
From the latest Fay post, as well as all the stuff I have read here from the last week, it really seems like there is no plan. And while I know people have objected to the comparison, I am really becoming convinced we are turning into the Pirates. Make a move to do “justice” to our fans even though it has no chance to make it a playoff team, blame everything on injuries and just keep trying to muddle through. Meanwhile, we play bad fundamental baseball which just makes the lack of talent all the more apparent.
Please tell me I am missing something and there is more hope for 2010 than I am seeing?
One other question in response to an earlier thread, I am on record saying that how Walt deals with the ss hole is my litmus test of where he is at as a GM, but should we be convinced his hitting is so bad his defense cannot make up for it? Some of the stats Mike and others have posted suggest he might be ok if we can get up to even league average at other spots, and it is not like he has had an extended chance to show if he can hit at all.
Regarding Bailey’s blowing a 4 run lead with 2 out in the 6th: “It’s part of the learning process, definitely,” Reds manager Dusty Baker said.
“That inning, I was missing everything by a few inches,” Bailey said. “I don’t know what to tell you. I was missing spots.”
Don’t we hear these statements after almost every start that Bailey makes ?
Dusty implied that Homer’s education got priority over winning the game by saying he left him in because he has to learn to survive such situations.
If that’s the case, and it’s all about the future (which it should be at this point) then why isn’t Sutton playing 3rd base, at least against righties ?
But that’s minor compared to the big point, which we keep coming back to: Why is Taveras out there every day, hurting us on offense and defense and not even giving a full effort and definitely not getting any better. If the Reds brass feels that for now Stubbs and Heisey are better off at AAA, then OK, but then at least put Dickerson in CF and Balentien in LF or RF every day and see how they do and let them learn.
This team could lose 100 games, I bet it ends up 66-96, like Dusty did in his last year with the Cubs. And I hope that means he’s shown the door.
I don’t think I could stand a repeat of the Dusty and Willy show in 2010, and if there is I completely lose respect for Jocketty and Castellini.
pinson I agree with at least one point
if next season starts and we have both Dusty and Willy I will not watch
That’s right, I did try.
I suck even more ass than Taveras, but at least I played hard. So can I have my job back?
Harold Reynolds & Barry Larkin are on diamond demos and looking good. Let’s trade Phillips for a LF & bring in Reynolds & Larkin…boom problems solved!
On a serious note: People who say the Bailey experiment is a failure make me laugh. The guy is 23 years old, most guys that age are just getting drafted and heading to High A ball or lower. When Edison Volquez was 23 he was 1-6 with a 7.29 era. Roy Halladay 4-7 with a 10.64 era. Pitching is more than throwing 98 and having good stuff, it’s about learning how to pitch to major league hitters, which comes with experience.
On a Baker note: It’s seems obvious to me that he’s more of a motivational speaker than a manager which would work with a set lineup and a veteran team but that’s not what we have so he should be replace in my opinion.
I really don’t care anymore and that is a sad statement. As long as Dusty is the manager and Taveras is in CF I will not watch or listen to a game or buy one stitch of Reds clothing or attend a game. I will check in periodically on this site, but that is it. I am past being mad. Apathy has set in.
Over the weekend, Baker sat Balentien against some Nationals pitchers because of their splits against rh hitters. These are some of the righties that Balentien has started against:
Harden
Lincecum
Cain
Carpenter
Lincecum
I’ll repeat what I said in the game thread.
Pole visited the mound 1 batter too late. At 5-1, bases loaded and Winn at the plate, Pole should have been on the mound talking through the sequence to that hitter. Winn had hit Bailey pretty hard the previous at-bat.
Greg @21 – i had a similiar thought in one of my posts as well in another thread. Balentien had 5 hits off of Lincecum, Cain, Carpenter in his recent starts. yet Dusty is “scared” of the Nationals staff for Balentien’s sake. ridiculous!
Pinson @ 15 – I think Baker more than implied that he sacrificed the game to teach Bailey a lesson. Quote from Fay’s blog:
“It’s part the process,” Baker said. “You don’t want to rescue them all the time or they’ll never learn. It’s a tough way to learn your lesson.”
And you are exactly right – if they are going to be “teaching lessons” to next year’s team, then why not play the guys who have a chance to be valuable contributors to next year’s team.
Sutton shouldn’t be out of the lineup for his gaffe Sunday. He should be back out there, getting experience playing every day. Balentien should be in the outfield every game. Maybe he’s an inexpensive solution to LF next year?
Dusty takes care of the veterans…that’s why they play against the veteran pitchers.
Remember, the young players are making $400,000 and that’s it. The older players get paid based on (past) performanance.
That is Dusty’s pattern, by the way, not just in Cincinnati.
Before, it was “he didn’t have the rookies” or the “rookies didn’t perform.”
Or the younger players weren’t good enough and the stats showed it at season’s end.
I think we’re now seeing why. Relievers don’t enter the game in pressure sitations. The old guys play against the easier pitchers.
It’s no wonder old vets call him to play for him. It’s not hard to figure out.
OK, I scoffed at all the accusations about Dusty ruining Prior and Wood in Chicago. I scoffed privately, and I scoffed publicly. They were both hard throwers whose mechanics meant they were destined for arm trouble someday.
Now, after a season of watching him leave starters in for that one more/two more hitters or one more inning… last night, Dusty leaves Homer in when he was obviously struggling, his fastball had flattened out, he was coughing up a lead, and lest we forget, he was PITCHING ON A SORE FOOT. As I watched Homer in the 6th muscling up to try to make any pitch work for him, it finally occurred to me that maybe, just maybe, I shouldn’t have scoffed quite so much.
Holy crap, Hal is taking Willy to task:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2009/08/18/many_of_his_teammates_think.html#comments
As he has done so often this year, center fielder Willy Taveras broke poorly on the ball, running laterally to his left before realizing the ball was over his head. It fell for a double.
He doesn’t get on base. When he does he doesn’t steal when it is needed. He was brought in to be a leadoff hitter and couldn’t do it and is now batting second. And he is below average in the field. What can Taveras do? He has a nice stereo set in the clubhouse that plays loud, headache-inducing salsa music.
Snip…
As far as I’m concerned, and many other fans are concerned, Taveras can rot on the bench the rest of the season. I’ve seen nothing to merit the millions the Reds have flushed down the toilet when they brought this guy in.
WOW! Hal really is taking the gloves off in his sunset columns! How much do you think other players are upset with Willy? Is Scott Rolen giving him a veteran leadership “talking to?”
It does seem that, unlike his Chicago pitchers, the Reds pitchers are on a pitch count. Baker’s problem seems to be that he’s leaving a pitcher in until he maxes out his pitch count limit.
It’s kind of like a speed limit. It the highest you are supposed to go, but sometimes conditions require that drive at a lower speed.
Bailey was obviously gassed last night. Just because he has a 100 pitch count limit doesn’t mean he has to throw all 100 pitches if he’s not able to.
One game I saw Joey Votto do something I’ve never seen in a big league game, and I get on my son for doing it in Little League games.
Taveras was on second, I think it was one out. Votto lines a single to centerfield and Taveras stops at third.
Conventional wisdom: don’t race home if there’s a chance for an out….however, this is gazelle-fast Taveras who would’ve and should’ve scored
The camera shows Votto on first base looking at Taveras standing on third base. Votto smiles, and throws his hands up in the air as if to ask ‘why didn’t you score?’
Taveras smiles back and looks away.
Phillips doesn’t hustle on flyballs to the outfield…Baker blames it on previous management (who was in Baker’s body managing last year?)
Hernandez doesn’t slide home on a play at the plate, with the camera clearing showing Bailey wildly waving to get down…Hernandez is out
Pitchers are left to rot in the game, while more than half our roster is a team of pitchers…plus a pitching shortstop.
May be Baker needs some veteran leadership or directions to the door…
Just wanted to point out how much I enjoy watching Paul Janish play SS. What an arm!