He’s a tad too cynical IMO. There’s a lot of people who don’t feed our kids crap, don’t want them exposed to drugs, and want them to compete on a level playing field with their peers. I wonder if he feels guys who don’t take stuff are suckers. Either way, he makes a very compelling case for his choices, and I’m sure most anyone in his situation would do the same. Ethically, it’s a lot of gray.
I read this last night. I wish he hadn’t used the drunk driving comparison toward the end, which has nothing to do with his point. Other than that, I loved what he said. As much as I want to see Arroyo traded to get out of his contract, I love to hear his interviews and think he is a very intelligent guy.
Wow, his candor is refreshing. I don’t agree with a lot of what he said, but I admire him for being so open about it.
As for his cynicism, I think he’s earned it: “He says fans and the news media are more concerned with cherished records falling than they are with whether steroids or supplements will have an adverse effect on a player’s health.”
Arroyo is absolutely right about that. If players were regularly flirting with 61 homers, and not obliterating the record each year, players would still look like this. And no one would care.
i think it’s good for the debate when people, be they players or whomever, discuss the gray areas in this issue. it is tough to draw a clear line a lot of the times between taking wheat grass or ginsing and some of the other supplements like andro.
however, arroyo seems way too flip about crossing the one clear line there is: the law. adderall is a prescription medication and you shouldn’t just have it. it’s also an amphetamine that he’s promoting as the country tries to deal with the meth epidemic.
stimulants kill more than 15,000 people a year in this country, as does drunk driving. i’d prefer our team’s outspoken members were a little less casual about promoting stuff that is clearly very dangerous and illegal.
Sounds to me like the reporter knew Arroyo had been candid about his PED use in the past and figured it was worth a shot to ask him whether he still used supplements, and Arroyo pretty much wrote the story for him. I respect him for being so open about it, and maybe it will encourage others to do so.
You guys believe whatever you want but I don’t believe 90% of that. Arroyo is the kind that would tell you that crap just to be “cool” and it makes him a rebel, something that might kick him up a notch in his music career, or at least he thinks so. Nope, he sees the end of his baseball career and is working the music thing.
“I do what I want to do and say what I want to say,” Why didn’t he just follow that with “cause I’m a G” lol
Arroyo’s always open, maybe a little too open (like when he talks about driving drunk). He’s consistent about giving a straight answer to questions, I see no ulterior motive here. He’s an intelligent person and a smart and competitive pitcher.
But he’s on a decline, if we get a good offer for him we should take it. I don’t want to trade Harang.
You beleive whatever you want Shane, but I think some people do pride themselves on their ability (audacity?) to be honest amid sure-fire criticism. While I think that, too, results from a desire to be perceived in a certain way, it wouldn’t lead to 90% of a comment being untrue. I’m sure he considers himself both a musician and baseball player, and he seems to want to carry the same image in both arenas. Anyway, I’d take a decent trade offer in a heartbeat.
seems like it doesn’t take much to get the respect of redleg nation.
“i’m a prima donna athlete, i have cheated in the past, i’m probably cheating now but haven’t gotten caught, i break the law to cheat, and i drive drunk at least once a year. as you can tell, i take pride in my honesty.”
i’m not sure whether all the respect given here says more about us or the state of figures in the media.
#15: I feel like the steroid issue is more complicated than it is portrayed in the media. Athletes are expected and paid to get their bodies in the best shape possible and perform. There is a lot of gray area as far as why you can and can’t use certain supplements. I felt like Arroyo presented the issue from the athlete’s perspective really well. In a media-driven era where people are instantly criticized for speaking their mind on a hot button issue like steroids (which he has been both criticized and praised), i feel like it is time for someone to touch on some of the issues that he did.
I am continually amazed at how so many people care. So what if players took or are taking PED. I say, it’s there bodies they have every right to do so if they chose. Athletes have always and will continue to try to find ways to gain an edge. So what….
Arroyo is one of the first athletes to actually straight up say yeah I took this crap, so did everyone, it wasn’t banned and we felt like it helped us out. I’m glad he stated the obvious that everyone wants/wanted to sweep under the rug
Good for him. He’s 1000 more honest than the chickenstuff writers and TV guys (and commissioners and owners) who first hyped Sosa/McGwire and then cried crocodile tears into their Billy Crystal model Yankee caps about how “kids today” ruined the game.
I agree with every single thing he said: Every one of us who says we care about ballplayers’ health — we’re all hypocrites. Travis G hit it on the head. If guys were staying in the upper 50s on HRs, nothing ever would’ve happened.
Gary Wadler, the guy quoted in that article, is a professional scold and concern-troll. He makes his living – literally – by fanning the flames of a steroid craze.
I too think his candor is great. Not so much the ‘I do what I want…’ tired ‘I’m a rebel’ stuff. The real key stuff is further down in the piece, specifically Arroyo’s refutation the ‘health of the players’ rubbish that is always thrown around. Arroyo is spot on that nobody really cares about that element in spite of all the huffing and puffing to the contrary– for all sides, this is about money, the union had/has a stake in player production, no matter the cause or human cost, and the owners have every bit as much, if not more interest in that. This is not to say that the union is ‘bad’ (unions are something like pimps, they negotiate the rate of exploitation)– it’s doing what it’s supposed to do, promoting the finanical interests of its members (which are also its own interests)– without the union, if the players slice of the pie was much smaller, this would be far, far worse– if there are few jobs and low pay, you’ll do just about anything to hang onto what you’ve got, no matter the dangers to your own health and safety. That doesn’t go away when there are loads of dollars involved, one thinks the situation less desperate, but the fact that players are willing instruments in their own exploitation remains. Arroyo was a marginal prospect, struggling to stay in the majors, and there are loads like him– many more like him than say Griffey, still more like our ‘Opening Day Starter’ McDonald, and even more that don’t even get that far. What do they do if they bust? Josh Hamilton trimmed trees and mowed lawns, if that gives an idea.
I found the following line interesting in today’s Enquirer: ‘”We just want to chat with him,” Levin said, “just to make him aware of the (MLB-licensed) supplements out there.”‘ In other words, we just want to chat with him about the options provided by those who have paid us a fee for licencing as opposed to those who have not. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that MLB has managed to get its hand in the till on supplements as well. If there wasn’t such social condemnation about it, you can bet there would have been ‘MLB-licensed steroids out there’ for them to chat with Arroyo about.
The NY Times Magazine had an interesting piece on Sunday about the over-use of young pitchers, the alarming number of elbow and shoulder surgeries done on 13, 12, 11yr old kids. It’s a subset of the same, in this case, the parents all have a financial stake in this, scholarships, signing bonuses, the whole bit, and will absolutely use up every last bit of their children’s physical health to get there. Do the kids benefit if it works out? Sure, it’s nice to have scholarships and signing bonuses. Is the aim of any of this the game or the health of the players? Nope, and I think Arroyo hits that on the head. The problem is that it would require a very radical re-thinking of how we do things, not just in baseball– to fix it.
I, for one, can easily see how this could happen. Someone says to you “this one makes me feel great after a workout” or whatever.
It’s not like things are branded on them “this one’s cheating” and “this one’s OK.”
It’s easy and convenient to boil things down to black-and-white judgments, but I think the reality for this issue (and most issues) is that it’s mostly gray area.
Oh, I should add… things have probably gotten clearer for players now (with an “approved list” of supplements and a “banned list”), but I totally see how in 2003 this could’ve happened.
I’d have a harder time understanding it happening now.
It doesn’t matter what anyone does in baseball. Only one player is punished for life and that is Pete. So many have done so much worse but he continues to be the poster child for strictness and inconsistency.
In the candy corn sports media, that was actually pretty forthright statement. It is probably a bit more barroom flippant than it should be on a few items, but there is a bunch of stuff in what Arroyo said that is dead on. Better living through chemistry is not going to away and the whole dietary supplement stuff becomes more and more mainstream every day. I don’t follow the stuff, but there are millions that who do and bunches and bunches of money spent on the stuff.
That being said, you have to wonder if the inconsistency of the chemistry is part of the inconsistency on the mound. Bronson Arroyo does not seem to have a middle road, he is either pretty good or terrible.
2009 stats: Sarasota 2-1 8 Games 8 Games Started 42.1 IP 4.89 ERA 1.44 WHIP
Carolina 3-2 6 Game 6 Game Started 36 2/3 IP 2.95 ERA 1.09 WHIP
Louisville 2-2 5 Game 5 Game Started 29 IP 2.48 ERA 1.21 WHIP
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I don’t care. If he gets suspended the Reds don’t have to pay him.
He’s a tad too cynical IMO. There’s a lot of people who don’t feed our kids crap, don’t want them exposed to drugs, and want them to compete on a level playing field with their peers. I wonder if he feels guys who don’t take stuff are suckers. Either way, he makes a very compelling case for his choices, and I’m sure most anyone in his situation would do the same. Ethically, it’s a lot of gray.
I read this last night. I wish he hadn’t used the drunk driving comparison toward the end, which has nothing to do with his point. Other than that, I loved what he said. As much as I want to see Arroyo traded to get out of his contract, I love to hear his interviews and think he is a very intelligent guy.
1 – I think he doesn’t want to get traded. His two interviews have come on July 31 and a day after it was announced that he passed through waivers.
2 – I think we’re seeing the results of coming off some of the “good” stuff. His numbers have been worsening each year he’s been here.
3 – He’s a complete idiot:
“It might be dangerous,” he says, “but so is drinking and driving. And how many of us do it at least once a year? Pretty much everybody.”
Wow, his candor is refreshing. I don’t agree with a lot of what he said, but I admire him for being so open about it.
As for his cynicism, I think he’s earned it: “He says fans and the news media are more concerned with cherished records falling than they are with whether steroids or supplements will have an adverse effect on a player’s health.”
Arroyo is absolutely right about that. If players were regularly flirting with 61 homers, and not obliterating the record each year, players would still look like this. And no one would care.
You’ve got to admit that at least he’s refreshingly honest and candid. Contrast with all the tired clichés we normally get from athletes and coaches.
I agree with Kyle – I wish he’d left out the drunk driving part of it.
i think it’s good for the debate when people, be they players or whomever, discuss the gray areas in this issue. it is tough to draw a clear line a lot of the times between taking wheat grass or ginsing and some of the other supplements like andro.
however, arroyo seems way too flip about crossing the one clear line there is: the law. adderall is a prescription medication and you shouldn’t just have it. it’s also an amphetamine that he’s promoting as the country tries to deal with the meth epidemic.
stimulants kill more than 15,000 people a year in this country, as does drunk driving. i’d prefer our team’s outspoken members were a little less casual about promoting stuff that is clearly very dangerous and illegal.
Yes, he’s refreshingly honest, but he’s just asking for trouble from the league/team.
I pretty much lost a lot of respect for Arroyo. I think this is him coming to the defense of Papi and nothing else.
I hope Castellini takes the Steinbrenner comment personally and opens up his little pocketbook in the offseason.
I didn’t sense that at all, David.
Sounds to me like the reporter knew Arroyo had been candid about his PED use in the past and figured it was worth a shot to ask him whether he still used supplements, and Arroyo pretty much wrote the story for him. I respect him for being so open about it, and maybe it will encourage others to do so.
You guys believe whatever you want but I don’t believe 90% of that. Arroyo is the kind that would tell you that crap just to be “cool” and it makes him a rebel, something that might kick him up a notch in his music career, or at least he thinks so. Nope, he sees the end of his baseball career and is working the music thing.
“I do what I want to do and say what I want to say,” Why didn’t he just follow that with “cause I’m a G” lol
Arroyo’s always open, maybe a little too open (like when he talks about driving drunk). He’s consistent about giving a straight answer to questions, I see no ulterior motive here. He’s an intelligent person and a smart and competitive pitcher.
But he’s on a decline, if we get a good offer for him we should take it. I don’t want to trade Harang.
You beleive whatever you want Shane, but I think some people do pride themselves on their ability (audacity?) to be honest amid sure-fire criticism. While I think that, too, results from a desire to be perceived in a certain way, it wouldn’t lead to 90% of a comment being untrue. I’m sure he considers himself both a musician and baseball player, and he seems to want to carry the same image in both arenas. Anyway, I’d take a decent trade offer in a heartbeat.
That’s fair. Your choice, and my choice.
seems like it doesn’t take much to get the respect of redleg nation.
“i’m a prima donna athlete, i have cheated in the past, i’m probably cheating now but haven’t gotten caught, i break the law to cheat, and i drive drunk at least once a year. as you can tell, i take pride in my honesty.”
i’m not sure whether all the respect given here says more about us or the state of figures in the media.
It took a serious back bone to be that honest, I respect him for it.
#15: I feel like the steroid issue is more complicated than it is portrayed in the media. Athletes are expected and paid to get their bodies in the best shape possible and perform. There is a lot of gray area as far as why you can and can’t use certain supplements. I felt like Arroyo presented the issue from the athlete’s perspective really well. In a media-driven era where people are instantly criticized for speaking their mind on a hot button issue like steroids (which he has been both criticized and praised), i feel like it is time for someone to touch on some of the issues that he did.
How does the front office feel about their experienced veteran popping pills in front of all the young pitchers?
I am continually amazed at how so many people care. So what if players took or are taking PED. I say, it’s there bodies they have every right to do so if they chose. Athletes have always and will continue to try to find ways to gain an edge. So what….
Greg,
I fear the answer is “how many wins do they have?”
Arroyo is one of the first athletes to actually straight up say yeah I took this crap, so did everyone, it wasn’t banned and we felt like it helped us out. I’m glad he stated the obvious that everyone wants/wanted to sweep under the rug
Good for him
Good for him. He’s 1000 more honest than the chickenstuff writers and TV guys (and commissioners and owners) who first hyped Sosa/McGwire and then cried crocodile tears into their Billy Crystal model Yankee caps about how “kids today” ruined the game.
I agree with every single thing he said: Every one of us who says we care about ballplayers’ health — we’re all hypocrites. Travis G hit it on the head. If guys were staying in the upper 50s on HRs, nothing ever would’ve happened.
Gary Wadler, the guy quoted in that article, is a professional scold and concern-troll. He makes his living – literally – by fanning the flames of a steroid craze.
I too think his candor is great. Not so much the ‘I do what I want…’ tired ‘I’m a rebel’ stuff. The real key stuff is further down in the piece, specifically Arroyo’s refutation the ‘health of the players’ rubbish that is always thrown around. Arroyo is spot on that nobody really cares about that element in spite of all the huffing and puffing to the contrary– for all sides, this is about money, the union had/has a stake in player production, no matter the cause or human cost, and the owners have every bit as much, if not more interest in that. This is not to say that the union is ‘bad’ (unions are something like pimps, they negotiate the rate of exploitation)– it’s doing what it’s supposed to do, promoting the finanical interests of its members (which are also its own interests)– without the union, if the players slice of the pie was much smaller, this would be far, far worse– if there are few jobs and low pay, you’ll do just about anything to hang onto what you’ve got, no matter the dangers to your own health and safety. That doesn’t go away when there are loads of dollars involved, one thinks the situation less desperate, but the fact that players are willing instruments in their own exploitation remains. Arroyo was a marginal prospect, struggling to stay in the majors, and there are loads like him– many more like him than say Griffey, still more like our ‘Opening Day Starter’ McDonald, and even more that don’t even get that far. What do they do if they bust? Josh Hamilton trimmed trees and mowed lawns, if that gives an idea.
I found the following line interesting in today’s Enquirer: ‘”We just want to chat with him,” Levin said, “just to make him aware of the (MLB-licensed) supplements out there.”‘ In other words, we just want to chat with him about the options provided by those who have paid us a fee for licencing as opposed to those who have not. I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that MLB has managed to get its hand in the till on supplements as well. If there wasn’t such social condemnation about it, you can bet there would have been ‘MLB-licensed steroids out there’ for them to chat with Arroyo about.
The NY Times Magazine had an interesting piece on Sunday about the over-use of young pitchers, the alarming number of elbow and shoulder surgeries done on 13, 12, 11yr old kids. It’s a subset of the same, in this case, the parents all have a financial stake in this, scholarships, signing bonuses, the whole bit, and will absolutely use up every last bit of their children’s physical health to get there. Do the kids benefit if it works out? Sure, it’s nice to have scholarships and signing bonuses. Is the aim of any of this the game or the health of the players? Nope, and I think Arroyo hits that on the head. The problem is that it would require a very radical re-thinking of how we do things, not just in baseball– to fix it.
I, for one, can easily see how this could happen. Someone says to you “this one makes me feel great after a workout” or whatever.
It’s not like things are branded on them “this one’s cheating” and “this one’s OK.”
It’s easy and convenient to boil things down to black-and-white judgments, but I think the reality for this issue (and most issues) is that it’s mostly gray area.
Oh, I should add… things have probably gotten clearer for players now (with an “approved list” of supplements and a “banned list”), but I totally see how in 2003 this could’ve happened.
I’d have a harder time understanding it happening now.
It doesn’t matter what anyone does in baseball. Only one player is punished for life and that is Pete. So many have done so much worse but he continues to be the poster child for strictness and inconsistency.
In the candy corn sports media, that was actually pretty forthright statement. It is probably a bit more barroom flippant than it should be on a few items, but there is a bunch of stuff in what Arroyo said that is dead on. Better living through chemistry is not going to away and the whole dietary supplement stuff becomes more and more mainstream every day. I don’t follow the stuff, but there are millions that who do and bunches and bunches of money spent on the stuff.
That being said, you have to wonder if the inconsistency of the chemistry is part of the inconsistency on the mound. Bronson Arroyo does not seem to have a middle road, he is either pretty good or terrible.