Comments on: Titanic Struggle Recap http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/ A Cincinnati Reds Blog | Dishing out hot, creamy bowls of bloggy goodness Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:21:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Glenn http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798487 Glenn Sun, 02 Aug 2009 16:11:17 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798487 Taveras is a guy who's name will certainly be found on the waiver wire. Unfortunately, no one will be stupid enough to claim him. Taveras is a guy who’s name will certainly be found on the waiver wire. Unfortunately, no one will be stupid enough to claim him.

]]> By: Chad Dotson http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798408 Chad Dotson Sun, 02 Aug 2009 14:17:22 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798408 <em>Chad - who is your favorite Red now? With your track record, considering Dunn and EE, we will be able to determine who’s next to be traded.</em> I'm leaning toward Willy Taveras. Under no circumstances can I pretend that D**** W******* is my favorite player. I'm afraid I'd be struck by lightning. Chad – who is your favorite Red now? With your track record, considering Dunn and EE, we will be able to determine who’s next to be traded.

I’m leaning toward Willy Taveras.

Under no circumstances can I pretend that D**** W******* is my favorite player. I’m afraid I’d be struck by lightning.

]]> By: Travis G. http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798400 Travis G. Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:58:14 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798400 Firing the general manager again would be a really dumb move. Firing the manager just probably isn't going to happen, because the team owes him $3.5 million next year. Firing the pitching and hitting coaches would be good moves. Like, first thing tomorrow morning. This afternoon, even. Firing the general manager again would be a really dumb move. Firing the manager just probably isn’t going to happen, because the team owes him $3.5 million next year. Firing the pitching and hitting coaches would be good moves.

Like, first thing tomorrow morning. This afternoon, even.

]]> By: Dan http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798325 Dan Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:07:42 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798325 The next time this team finishes over .500, Walt, Castellini, and Dusty will all be gone. (I don't mean dead... I just mean not having anything to do w/ the Cincinnati Reds.) Mark my words. I think this is the most pessimistic I've felt about the long-term health of the team since 2003. The next time this team finishes over .500, Walt, Castellini, and Dusty will all be gone. (I don’t mean dead… I just mean not having anything to do w/ the Cincinnati Reds.) Mark my words.

I think this is the most pessimistic I’ve felt about the long-term health of the team since 2003.

]]> By: Dan http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798324 Dan Sun, 02 Aug 2009 13:05:42 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798324 By the way, any talk of re-signing Rolen after 2010 is completely irrelevant to the discussion of this trade. Walt could've done that anyway, without ever trading for him. What this trade got us was 2 months of Rolen in 2009 and 1 year of Rolen in 2010. THAT'S ALL. Meanwhile, in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015, up north in Toronto, the Blue Jays will have 2 cost-controlled young pitchers. By the way, any talk of re-signing Rolen after 2010 is completely irrelevant to the discussion of this trade. Walt could’ve done that anyway, without ever trading for him. What this trade got us was 2 months of Rolen in 2009 and 1 year of Rolen in 2010. THAT’S ALL.

Meanwhile, in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, and 2015, up north in Toronto, the Blue Jays will have 2 cost-controlled young pitchers.

]]> By: Dan http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798323 Dan Sun, 02 Aug 2009 12:58:47 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798323 I wouldn't say it's "penny pinching." It's just incompetence. Or stupidity. Does Jocketty care about this team at all beyond 2010? We're getting HAMMERED in just about every post-trade-deadline analysis I've read, and I completely agree w/ it. 36 hours to think about it and it still looks stupid and unbelievably short-sighted to me. You cannot ever have too much good young pitching. You can't. Horde it - get as much as you can. It's the most valuable thing in baseball. Instead, we trade two 26 year olds and a 23 year old away for one year of a 34-year-old. Mind-bogglingly stupid. Sigh... maybe my fantasy team will win it all this year. At least they always do what I want... I wouldn’t say it’s “penny pinching.” It’s just incompetence. Or stupidity.

Does Jocketty care about this team at all beyond 2010?

We’re getting HAMMERED in just about every post-trade-deadline analysis I’ve read, and I completely agree w/ it. 36 hours to think about it and it still looks stupid and unbelievably short-sighted to me.

You cannot ever have too much good young pitching. You can’t. Horde it – get as much as you can. It’s the most valuable thing in baseball.

Instead, we trade two 26 year olds and a 23 year old away for one year of a 34-year-old. Mind-bogglingly stupid.

Sigh… maybe my fantasy team will win it all this year. At least they always do what I want…

]]> By: AnnapolisRed http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798256 AnnapolisRed Sun, 02 Aug 2009 12:03:27 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798256 Rob-Why would the Yankees want Arroyo and his salary and why would they give us Melky for him? It is great to say things like Arroyo and Harang should be gone, but who wants them? I know I don't/wouldn't. I agree about Dick Pole. Not impressed at all. The pitching staff has been awful the last two months and can't get anybody out in the first inning. Does Dave Duncan have any desire to be a manager? Rob-Why would the Yankees want Arroyo and his salary and why would they give us Melky for him? It is great to say things like Arroyo and Harang should be gone, but who wants them? I know I don’t/wouldn’t.

I agree about Dick Pole. Not impressed at all. The pitching staff has been awful the last two months and can’t get anybody out in the first inning. Does Dave Duncan have any desire to be a manager?

]]> By: REDS1 http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798254 REDS1 Sun, 02 Aug 2009 11:53:19 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798254 I cannot believe that this year's "dark horse" team is looking at a last place finish. That's penny-pinching imcompetence for ya. I cannot believe that this year’s “dark horse” team is looking at a last place finish. That’s penny-pinching imcompetence for ya.

]]> By: brublejr http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798188 brublejr Sun, 02 Aug 2009 08:52:03 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798188 Matt, I think Chad's favorite now is Weathers :grin: Matt, I think Chad’s favorite now is Weathers :grin:

]]> By: Matt B. http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798110 Matt B. Sun, 02 Aug 2009 05:28:20 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798110 Chad - who is your favorite Red now? With your track record, considering Dunn and EE, we will be able to determine who's next to be traded. Chad – who is your favorite Red now? With your track record, considering Dunn and EE, we will be able to determine who’s next to be traded.

]]> By: Chad Dotson http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798088 Chad Dotson Sun, 02 Aug 2009 04:29:32 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798088 Oh, okay. Well, I won't take GG and CW's word for anything. It'll be very interesting to hear whether that's true or now. Still a crappy trade, but maybe mitigated a bit. Oh, okay.

Well, I won’t take GG and CW’s word for anything. It’ll be very interesting to hear whether that’s true or now. Still a crappy trade, but maybe mitigated a bit.

]]> By: Rob http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798087 Rob Sun, 02 Aug 2009 04:25:46 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798087 Jocketty said he wasn't done trading this year. I have to think that either Arroyo or Harang will be gone. Hopefully Arroyo. There IS NO WAY he is worth the money he is supposed to be paid for next year. Hopefully Jocketty can sucker a team like the Yankees to take him and his ridiculous salary on and get something halfway decent in return. I wouldn't mind seeing Melky Cabrera in a Reds uniform. Jocketty said he wasn’t done trading this year. I have to think that either Arroyo or Harang will be gone. Hopefully Arroyo. There IS NO WAY he is worth the money he is supposed to be paid for next year. Hopefully Jocketty can sucker a team like the Yankees to take him and his ridiculous salary on and get something halfway decent in return. I wouldn’t mind seeing Melky Cabrera in a Reds uniform.

]]> By: Matt B. http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798069 Matt B. Sun, 02 Aug 2009 04:15:10 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798069 Oh, I didn't hear they got more than four million. Even still, like Fay said, the Reds won't have much payroll flexibility unless Bob opens up his wallet. Oh, I didn’t hear they got more than four million. Even still, like Fay said, the Reds won’t have much payroll flexibility unless Bob opens up his wallet.

]]> By: AnnapolisRed http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798043 AnnapolisRed Sun, 02 Aug 2009 04:04:45 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798043 Chad I think he was talking about GG and CW saying tonight that the Blue Jays gave the Reds 5-7 million. That obviously carries over to next year. Chad I think he was talking about GG and CW saying tonight that the Blue Jays gave the Reds 5-7 million. That obviously carries over to next year.

]]> By: JerBear http://redlegnation.com/2009/08/01/titanic-struggle-recap-99/#comment-1798040 JerBear Sun, 02 Aug 2009 04:03:30 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/?p=8700#comment-1798040 I was wondering about the money issue too..If Edwin was to make like 4 million next year and Hairston around 2 million, then the Reds are really only taking abo about 5 million for next year right? I wouldn't discount the idea totally either that one of pitchers gets traded as well. Then they'll buy out Alex Gonzalez...I think it's a 500,000 buyout. That'll cut out some more money. I'm just trying to understand how much we're really adding/subtracting money wise before Free Agency begins in the offseason. One positive...Scott Rolen actually wants to be in Cincinnati. It was nice to hear that. I know it's for personal reasons, to be closer to home, but hey at least we have one happy guy on the team. I wouldn't be surprised if he hits very well at GABP barring injury. How bad does Alex Gonzalez have to be for Paul Janish to get a start? Dusty Baker is loyal to a fault. Finally, it's amazing to me how bad the pitching has been. At what point do Dick Poole and the coaching staff deserve blame? How can your starters be great for 2 months, then terrible all of a sudden. You don't see the Cubs, Cardinals, and Astros starting pitching just getting horrible all of a sudden. I don't get it. Sure, we've had injuries...but there have literally been 0 above average starts since the All Star Break that I can remember...maybe like 1 from Arroyo actually. Having good pitching earlier in the year proved how it can carry even a horrible offensive team....they now have a terrible offense, and not very good pitching. I was wondering about the money issue too..If Edwin was to make like 4 million next year and Hairston around 2 million, then the Reds are really only taking abo about 5 million for next year right?

I wouldn’t discount the idea totally either that one of pitchers gets traded as well. Then they’ll buy out Alex Gonzalez…I think it’s a 500,000 buyout. That’ll cut out some more money. I’m just trying to understand how much we’re really adding/subtracting money wise before Free Agency begins in the offseason.

One positive…Scott Rolen actually wants to be in Cincinnati. It was nice to hear that. I know it’s for personal reasons, to be closer to home, but hey at least we have one happy guy on the team. I wouldn’t be surprised if he hits very well at GABP barring injury.

How bad does Alex Gonzalez have to be for Paul Janish to get a start? Dusty Baker is loyal to a fault.

Finally, it’s amazing to me how bad the pitching has been. At what point do Dick Poole and the coaching staff deserve blame? How can your starters be great for 2 months, then terrible all of a sudden. You don’t see the Cubs, Cardinals, and Astros starting pitching just getting horrible all of a sudden. I don’t get it. Sure, we’ve had injuries…but there have literally been 0 above average starts since the All Star Break that I can remember…maybe like 1 from Arroyo actually.

Having good pitching earlier in the year proved how it can carry even a horrible offensive team….they now have a terrible offense, and not very good pitching.

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