Loading ...Let’s use this thread to discuss any rumors that are going around as we approach the deadline. I don’t know if the Reds are going to be able to swing anything, but I can think of one player that I hope to see traded.
The editors will update this thread with any stories that come across the wire relating to the Reds.
Discuss tonight’s game here, as well. Let’s cheer on Justin Lehr as he makes his long-delayed major league debut.
UPDATE: Can anyone come up with a good reason why the Reds shouldn’t just clean house right now?
UPDATE 2: Heh:
My source tells me the Reds are still trying to make a big play for Hanley Ramirez, but the new word is that the Reds are hestitant to take on his salary with no clear position to play him. Alex Gonzalez is deeply entrenched at short, you know.
UPDATE 3: Jerry Hairston, Jr. has been traded to the Yankees. Details still sketchy.
UPDATE 4: Fox Sports is reporting that Scott Rolen has been traded from Toronto to Cincinnati for Edwin Encarnacion and …. wait for it … Yonder Alonso. If this is true, Walt Jocketty should be terminated immediately.
UPDATE 5: It appears that Scott Rolen was obtained for Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke, and Zach Stewart. The Yanks sent us a crappy minor league catcher, Chase Weems, for Hairston.
This isn’t much better than trading Alonso, in my opinion. Stewart is a STUD.
Disaster.
earlier there was a Hardy for Harang rumor but I haven’t heard that on any site except for Milwaukee’s so I’m not sure if that was true or not.
It’s been pretty quiet on the Red’s front today which I think is the wrong way to go. Let’s trade the huge contracts we have while we still can and get some financial freedom and some young guys back. Then perhaps we can be a player in the free agent market or offseason trades
It’s really quiet on the trade front right now. What’s Walt Jocketty waiting for?
Um…what is this about a Hanley Ramirez rumor? Is that just pure bunk? I saw it on Reds Reporter and heard about it on WLW.
Hmmm. Just reading the words “Hanley Ramirez rumor” right now after I posted that makes me realize how absurd that is.
That would not make sense because the marlins were going after Heath Bell and Nick Johnson to try and compete this year so they aren’t trading there best player.
I just put an update above about that. I assumed it was just a joke.
Tomorrow night in Cleveland, it’s Victor Martinez bobblehead night. And it looks like he has just been traded to Boston. Hilarious.
I’d love to have Martinez.
Do you know the haul it would take to add Hanley Ramirez? You would have to part with five of your top prospects. Bailey, Francisco, Alonso, Heisey, and Dorn wouldn’t even get it done. I’d love to have HanRam as his contract is certainly doable 2010: $7 million, 2011: $11 million, 2012: $15 million, 2013: $15.5 million, 2014: $16 million, 2015: Free Agent, but there is NO WAY that rumor has any teeth.
Also, the Marlins are only three games out of the wild card. Why would they make that move now?
doubt the Reds do anything, mainly because all the players will be able to pass through waivers so they can wait or wait till the offseason. I want Harang and Arroyo gone though.
Our big contracts aren’t being paid to players who will put a contender over the hump. Harang, possibly, for a team that needs to upgrade the middle of their rotation (like the Phillies did last year with Blanton). I happen to believe Harang’s performance would improve with a change of scenery, but no one’s going to pay extra for that. He’s an overpaid third starter. But Arroyo’s more of an offseason deal, if at all.
You gotta think Weathers, Rhodes, Masset or Cordero would be attractive to someone. I hear Colorado’s looking for a lefty in the pen and a left-handed hitting OF for the bench. Would Rhodes and Nix work?
(BTW, no f’ing way on Han-Ram. Srsly. Not even the BoSox or the Rays could pull that off with their farm systems.)
No way the Reds move Massett because if anything they try and move Weathers and have Massett take his spot in the bullpen.
I even have a hard time believing the Reds would consider Rhodes because he isn’t really expensive at $2M for next year.
Jerry Hairston Jr. is a Yankee
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/st/archives/2009/07/yanks_get_hairs.html
Even if you believe Massett’s having a career year (thus selling high), he isn’t going to bring much…he’s be more of a “part of a package” guy.
JERRY HAIRSTON JR. IS GONE!!!
What is Dusty going to do without Hairston?
Thanks for the update Brian…but seems like a “nothing deal” to me…I mean what are you going to get for Jerry Hairston?
I agree the Reds won’t get much but its something that happened haha.
Why in the world would the Reds move Hairston, Jr.? He wasn’t a SS, but he was a nice utility guy that can also play the OF. He wasn’t used correctly but was a good guy to have. No details on who the Reds got in return. PTBNL?
Hairston’s gone
My guess is the Yanks only did it because their CF broke his hand or wrist or something. It doesn’t say what the Reds will get.
Take Dusty with you, buddy!
It only took two minutes, but someone already misses Cherry.
He wasn’t an especially good player, but he’s a very useful one. Too bad he had to be quite so useful for the Reds.
To bad they wouldn’t take Arroyo or Harang
Hairston makes $2m a year. Might’ve been a factor. Minor cost cutting?
Who is the backup CF? Stubbs going to get the call?
Blockbuster!
If Walt got a minor leaguer then there’s a 25-man spot to fill…
And if he puts someone on the 60-day that frees up a 40-man spot for…
Darnell McDonald?
If only!
That’s two big deals this week…WOW, that Jocketty’s a genius!
Hairston to Yankees, wonder if his agent Casey Close, once of Columbus, Ohio, pushed his other client, Derk Jeter, for the trade?
What’s this now? Jeter to the Reds?
Balentine going to take his spot?
Haha
no news on what we got in return
maybe if we’re lucky they might give us a couple hot dogs and a soda, and some bleach seat tickets to a yankees game for Bob and Walt, that way they can watch a real team play
Trading Hairston is the only way to get Dusty to stop misusing him.
Surely, if the Reds get anything less than A-Rod in return, Dusty Baker will resign in protest.
Oh no. The Rolen deal is done, according to MLB Network.
Yeah – I’m seeing that about Rolen too. Oh my.
we got rolen
MLB network just said Rolen coming to Cincy. If its for Alonso, I’m going to lose my mind.
I am unsure, it depends who the Reds gave up.
Chad….gross
C’mon Rolen, deny that trade
it better not be for Alonso
I’m hoping EE and Willy T lol
yeah I’m hoping Rolen says no lol
Oh no. The Rolen deal is done, according to MLB Network.
Gulp. I’m sceered.
If Alonso is involved, I’m shutting down Redleg Nation immediately.
If the Rolen thing is true, we have unquestionably the absolute worst front office in the history of baseball
apparently it didn’t take my hyperbole html tag
I am glad to have Rolen on my team. I am very scared at what was given up.
Are you guys kidding me? Rolen?
Blue Jay fans on Twitter are hoping Encarnacion isn’t involved.
Is this 2002? If so, give me Scott Rolen!!!
evidently rolen has to approve the deal. please god let him deny.
Why TF would Rolen NOT deny the trade?
Well, scratch that. He is from Jasper, IN.
Well, it depends hugely (obviously) who we gave up, and how much we’re paying.
It’s not AUTOMATICALLY terrible.
This will be telling, though, whether Bob C is willing to take on most of the $$$ to be able to give a lesser prospect, or if he’ll go cheaper and give up a better player. (I’m afraid I know the answer already but I’ll give him a chance…)
Rolen is from Indiana and looking at the Reds he probably sees that he has a better chance at competing here than on Toronto in the AL East… I bet he approves it
I think we should wait to see the return before we freak out about this guys. Scott Rolen is MUCH better than Edwin Encarnacion is. Money is a big upgrade as well, but Rolen makes the Reds in 2010 a better team than Edwin Encarnacion does if he can play 120 games.
Sorry, i think it’s terrible if even we gave up Taveras…it’s not that big an improvement over what we have, he’s older, more expensive, and can’t stay healthy.
Yeah, it depends on who we gave up. Waiting for the other shoe to drop on that one is scaring me to death. I don’t trust Walt.
Also, it depends on who is going to play 3B the other 60 games of the year while Rolen is injured. It would’ve been Hairston, but…..
Jonathan Mayo is hearing we got Austin Jackson from Yanks for JHJ.
Let’s not forget that Edwin is my favorite Red, which will mean my favorite Red has been traded two straight years.
My new favorite Red is going to be Willy Taveras or Dusty Baker.
how is Scott Rolen much better than EE? It’s definitely not true offensively as they’re about equal the past few years.
Defensively sure, but Rolen is also 34 and is only going downhill from here
Salary wise, if the deal isn’t a wash financially then this makes no sense
Hopefully Arroyo is traded for Rolen
Plus, I’m hoping Scotty will have a mad on for the Cards and mash them every time we meet up!!!
There is NO way in HELL Cashman would be dumb enough to give up Jackson for Hairston. Rolen deal would look nice so long as I don’t see PTBNL anywhere in the report, as that would mean it was Alonso.
Yeah, Rolen is certainly NOT much better than EdE, esp. when salary is factored in.
Chad you are tempting fate with things like that shutdown comment. Please do not tempt the baseball gods.
Rolen makes no sense for this team. None. I am just hoping there is nothing more than EE in here.
Mark Sheldon just posted: Volquez stopped his sim game well short of expected 80 pitches. He went back into the clubhouse.
It doesn’t matter if we gave up exactly no one or less than no one (i.e. Taverasty) and the Jays are eating his entire contract. There’s no reason for this trade at all. The maximum 2 wins Rolen gives us over EE (ALL on defense) will not put us into the playoffs next year. It’s a waste. EE is still an about average 3B who we have under control for more years at a lower price. That is valuable in itself, and especially if prospects don’t develop.
Bill, Scott Rolen is worth about 3 wins over Edwin Encarnacion. Thats worth 12-15 million on the open market. The guy has trouble staying healthy, but if he can play 120 games, he is a lot better for the Reds, even at more money, than Edwin Encarnacion is. I like me some Edwin, but he is what he is.
That was my first thought David, but always hopeful it could be true. Mayo just backed off that comment. Here is a link to his twitter that he is posting the info.
http://twitter.com/JonathanMayoB3
Five minutes from the deadline.
If the Reds get Jackson for a joke like Hairston, that would be an unbelievable
move. There is just no way.
Brad,
Edwin Encarnacion is not an average 3B. He is average to slightly above average at the plate, but he is the worst defensive guy in baseball. Add that together and its not close to being an average 3B.
Over the next three years, I’d say EE will be better than Rolen offensively.
Depends on how much you value defense, and how much Rolen can stay on the field.
Chad there are going to be about 90 minutes of news after the deadline on deals that got through which weren’t known.
True, David. But once that deadline passes, we might start getting some hard information. That’s what I’m waiting for.
How big of an upgrade or downgrade would Rolen be over Encarnacion in the clubhouse/as a teammate? And what is the value on that?
Bill – John Fay is reporting the same thing on Volquez:
Edinson Volquez just stopped in the middle of his simulated game. Trainer Mark Mann looked at his elbow and they headed in.
Can’t be good. Don’t know how many pitches he threw.
And yes, Austin Jackson, please.
2:56pm: FOX Sports says the Blue Jays will get Edwin Encarnacion and a minor leaguer. Rolen is expected to approve the deal.
EE and a minor leaguer…. better not be Alonso lol or anyone good
Minor leaguer is Alonso http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9875596
Doug, I don’t necessarily disagree with anything you say, but you have to take into account that Rolen is old. He isn’t getting any better, and he could drop off substantially at any time.
We can argue all day about whether EE is going to improve at all but the fact is that he is four months older than Votto. There’s a chance he will be substantially better than Rolen on offense.
Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!
Who plays in the OF tonight if Taveras’ wrist still hurts, Hairston was traded, and Balentien “isn’t ready”? Or is he forced into action for a game?
Gomes-Nix-Balentien?
Charlie at #77
Those intangibles aren’t able to be measured very well, but I doubt any clubhouse influence can really impact a team that much. If it’s only EE and a fringe minor leaguer (ie none of our top 15 guys) then I’m fine with this trade but it better not be Alonso or anyone good
Doug, those three wins do us no good this year and do you trust him to stay healthy and hit at this level, at his age next year? I am asking that seriously, this year looks like the aberation to me, but I am willing to be convinced otherwise.
Walt Jocketty is a absolute, complete, pure, idiot.
Alonso gone. Why even bother with the draft?
I don’t understand you guys… In the last 3 seasons (including ‘09), EE has played in exaclty 13 more ballgames than Rolen. …and that’s while Rolen has battled back from that shoulder. I think we’re seeing a re-habbed Rolen and that player is significantly better than EE all the way around. …and I’m an EE fan.
I may quit being a reds fan today if it’s EE and Alonso. That would be the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever seen. It could be over…I think maybe I’ll go for umm the Marlins perhaps? I like the way the manage a team.
Austin Jackson’s #s are decent at AAA for a 22 year old, but the Ks are still high. Looks like Stubbs too me, in which case it’s a fair trade for a legit ML utility guy like Hairston.
Even if Rolen is 3 wins better, it’s still not worth 12-15 million to the Reds. The marginal wins he could provide are still not putting us anywhere near the playoffs next year. It’s just wasting money.
Geez – Edwin AND Alonso? X(
If Alonso is involved…redleg nation will have one less reader.
How much of a signing bonus did we pay Alonso? Because you better include that in the cost of this trade.
Complete, absolute and utter disgrace.
Oh…I don’t know…Stubbs, Frazier, Heisey, Lotzkar, Henry…
If it was Alonso… Cincinnati is one of the worst run franchises in baseball since 2000
Word is it’s Alonso and EE for Rolen.
I hate the Reds if this is true. I wouldn’t have traded Alonso straight up for Rolen.
If it’s Alonso, get ready for a Reds fan meltdown unlike anything we’ve ever seen.
I hope Fox is wrong about Alonso, because tonight went from a sober Friday night to a black-out Friday night…
To give up Alonso, they should’ve eaten A LOT of Rolen’s salary. Walt’s an idiot, and a desperate on at that.
Well Chad – it’s been a good run… Hope this post goes through. When’s the site getting shut down
Good point, you gotta factor in Alonso’s signing bonus. We got HOSED!!
http://twitter.com/ed_price/status/3057155032
I felt literally nauseated when I read that Fox Sports report, but I might actually barf if it’s confirmed. (*If* it’s confirmed.)
Ed Price, FanHouse.com: “#Reds source says reports of Encarnacion plus Alonso for Rolen are not accurate. We’ll see…”
Heck, if this is the route we are going why not toss in Stubbs, Heisey, Frazier and Stewart and get Halladay too and just go for it in 2010? Otherwise, I am going to put a knife into my brain tonight sometime.
I can’t believe we mortgaged our future for a 34 year old 3rd baseman who will probably have the same offensive output as EE next year and maybe help us win 2 or 3 more games in the field.
Congratulations Cincinnati, you have no idea how to run a baseball team
Site will be shut down as soon as it is confirmed that Alonso is part of the deal.
The Reds trading for Scott Rolen is another slap in a knowledgeable fan’s face.
It’s a move to say, hey, we did something, but he got hurt and it didn’t work out…
what’s more, the next line is invariably, we can’t afford to get anybody else or keep our young talent.
It’s crazy, frankly, outrageously poor management by men who have more money to burn than we dream about.
It’s not that Encarnacion is great, he’s not, but Rolen’s 34, injury prone, attitude prone, with a huge salary.
Teams are built with youth….read the Bob Howsam trade things (exception Seaver, who’s a Hall of Famer), and you’ll find he built with youth. If you were 28 years old, you were on the trade block.
Shortstops must be young; defense declines as players get older.
Our team can’t “afford” players because ownership is too busy making “public” statements by trading for overpaid, useless closers, signing old middle relievers because they can’t scout for younger ones, and extending contracts to people like Harang and Arroyo on their first good season.
We should be outraged; I am outraged and insulted, if this trade is true.
Look, at Reds’ histories…we have many Hall of Famers that played for us at the end of their careers (Harry Heilman, Curt Simmons, Chick Hafey, Jim Bottomley…there’s more); these players are acquired to sell tickets while not really investing in the team.
If the Reds want to win, they must invest in the best scouts and player management people they can find…not, signing old, over paid players then whine when they can’t afford to keep young players who can really play…
Color me “red” with frustration.
I’ve decided to make no judgements until we actually know what the deal is…
C’mon, AB…that’s no fun! Jump to conclusions and fly off the handle like the rest of us!
It’s clear that Walt Jocketty thinks the Reds were really a GOOD team this year, but lost only because of injuries. In other words, he’s clueless.
Who’d we get for Hairston?
Can’t do it man…too many emotions at once…did we get Austin Jackson? Sweet! Did we deal Alsono? No Way!
Looks like it really was Austin Jackson for JHJ, which is a pretty good deal for us.
Possibly completely nullified by other idiocy, however.
I’m reading across the internets that looks like Halladay may have been sent to LAA, so perhaps there is a 3 way trade going on here? Angels definitely have some people I would be OK having on our team if we have to ship off Alonso.
If we got Jackson that is GREAT, but you are right Chad. If we gave up Alonso and EE for Rolen…..wow.
en Davidoff of Newsday (via Twitter) says the Reds will receive minor league catcher Chase Weems.
Jeff Blair of Canada’s General Newspaper (WTF?) tweets: “ESPN says Halladay to Angels.”
Austin Jackson for JHJ would be a great move, and the exact type of thing we should be doing.
It would almost make me believe the Alonso thing cannot be true.
we got a class A <a href =”http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/Richard-Weems.shtml”catcher with a 662 ops in 255 minor league at bats for Hairston! Coup!
well that didnt work
UPDATE, 4:08 p.m.: They sent Low A ball catcher Chase Weems to the Reds. That appears to be the only deal made by the Yankees.
Per a Yankee blog.
Doug, I disagree with your line of thinking. I haven’t run the numbers,
but let’s assume the 3 wins. I think you are cherry picking the year
(2009) instead of using Rolen’s expected 2010 stats, whatever they are
(but probably worse), plus comparing to Encarnacion in 2009. I mean, Rolen’s
worth 40 more wins than, say, me, this year. I doubt he’s worth more
wins by more than 1 or so next year.
Rolen waived NTC.
well whoever it was rolen approved it
ESPN says Yonder Alonso is not involved
Keith Law says no Alonso!!!!!
That is a more realistic, but pathetic, return for JHJ.
Just a salary dump, but I can live with it because it opens ABs for Janish and other younger guys hopefully.
Keith Law says Yonder is not included in the deal.
Zach Stewart to Toronto. He will win a Cy Young for them. Bank on it.
So much for reporting; Keith Law says no Alonso.
Well, someone is wrong, my logic says.
Chase Weems: http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=519404
John Fay reports via twitter:
johnfayman #Reds sending Encarnacion, Roenicke, ZStewart to Toronto. Got C Chase Weems for Hairston.
According to John Fay
The Reds are sending Edwin Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke and Zach Stewart to Toronto for Scott Rolen.
That’s a high price to pay.
In exchange for Jerry Hairston Jr., the Reds are getting catcher Chase Weems. He was drafted in the sixth round in 2007.
That’s almost as bad as giving up Alonso.
No Alonso to the Blue Jays
EE, Roenicke, and Zach Stewart. Pretty high price, but, Jocketty really wanted Rolen.
ZStewart? Ahhhhhhhh, No!!!!
RT @johnfayman #Reds sending Encarnacion, Roenicke, ZStewart to Toronto. Got C Chase Weems for Hairston.
Roenicke, too? Srsly?
3:14pm: Rolen approved the deal, according to Joel Sherman of the New York Post (on Twitter). ESPN’s Keith Law says Yonder Alonso is not in the deal. Instead, it’ll be Encarnacion, Josh Roenicke, and Zach Stewart heading to Toronto according to John Fay of the Cincinnati Enquirer.
Zach Stewart included in the deal doesn’t make me any happier.
How sad is it that we are waiting here in terror to find out how bad this really is, as opposed to being excited about a good move?
That’s barely a step down from Alonso
I think getting Rolen allows another year for guys like Frazier to get more seasoning. Rolen is an upgrade on def and a more consistent hitter than EE. EE is not the future 3rd baseman for the Reds.
Josh Roenicke? WTF? I thought they were high on that guy and not just….high.
I wouldnt have traded those 3 for Rolen 5 years ago
Jocketty got fleeced BIG TIME on that deal. Roenicke and Stewart and EE? You got to be f****** kidding me?!?!?
Roenicke and Stewart…. I’m ok with that
This has to be part of some 3 way deal if Halladay is going to LAA, at least I hope so. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise.
Of course, we don’t know how much cash is coming back, but this doesn’t look good from where I sit. I really like Roenicke’s potential.
I’m hoping these are just more rumors floating around, as this makes me almost as mad as the Alonso rumor. This just seems like way too much to give up for Rolen, so I’m hoping that the truth will be much more reasonable. Although who I am kidding, this is the Reds we’re talking about.
I don’t think Roenicke or Stewart are going to do that much at a major league level… I agree that the Blue Jays “won” this trade but perhaps its the excitement that it’s not Alonso that has me feeling somewhat ok about this.
i don’t like this deal but it could have been much worse
Roenicke and Stewart? Absolutely utterly pathetic. I might have been happier with Alonso.
I am so disgusted, I just do not know what to say. Ruins the rest of the season for me.
I’m not okay with trading Stewart for a part we don’t need.
If it were for a top shortstop or something, maybe.
If all of this is correct, it means we ADDED payroll for THIS year. That doesn’t make sense to me.
Me neither Chad, Stewart is a BA
It makes about as much sense as Jake Peavy getting traded to the ChiSox AGAIN.
James #145, EE does the exact same thing for less money. Rolen is not the future 3B for this team either and however much better he may be than EE, he’s still not getting us into the playoffs next year. That would be the only reason to add salary and it’s not there.
You would think that the Blue Jays would need to pay some of the salary for Rolen if it is a 3 for 1 deal.
Probably not a good trade for the Reds, but, it likely will not matter anyway. No movement of Arroyo, Harang, and Cordero, the big contracts.
Ugh… just awful…
What a disaster.
Anyone notice how this is the exact opposite of virtually everything else that went down this week? Everyone treating prospects like they were gold, refusing to give up top guys in their systems even for All-Star level players.
We gave up two good prospects for a 35 year old 3B with health issue having an abnormally good year compared to his recent history.
Either we are smarter than everyone else in the room, or we are complete morons. I know which I am picking.
Is walt going to try and sign Mark Mcgwire now?
Rolen and Jocketty together again. Correct my dates, but didn’t Jocketty sign Rolen in St. Louis, and then when Jocketty left, they got rid of him?
And of course the Reds fail to trade D**** W******* for the third straight year, or whatever. Sheesh.
At least I will get to watch Stewart pitch here in Vegas soon
What other old former Cardinals can we try to obtain?
yeah I don’t understand why we added payroll… the Front Office must really think that we can compete hard next season
Well, that was the last exciting to happen this season. Time to get on with the business of playing out the string…………again. *sigh*
Saw this on cincinnatireds.com:
Toronto would reportedly get third baseman Edwin Encarnacion and a Minor Leaguer in return, according to FoxSports.com.
Note it says “A Minor Leaguer”. Hopefully, that means, at least, no Roenicke, though it could mean Stewart. Take it with a grain of salt, though.
I am hoping for Vina and Edmonds! Move BP over to SS and let Vina play 2B.
Vince Coleman looked good in the Celeb Softball game, we should sign him
Well…what’s the lineup going to look like tonight?
What on earth could the rationale be? Seriously – that we want to hang onto a tiny shred of hope this year?
How big an idiot do you have to be to get out-maneuvered by JP Ricciardi?
oh god, this really is worse than being the Pirates.
At least they can try to go young, have something of a plan.
We get another few years of horrible decisions from mgmt and crappy product on the field….
Was Ray Lankford thrown in?
With Hairston gone how many Dusty guys are left on the team?
Everyone is reporting it is Stewart and Roenicke at this point.
At this point, I officially vote no confidence in the present regime.
this seems like a classic jocketty move though, right? i may not be remembering perfectly, but i feel like when he was with st lou he had a rep for trading prospects for impact major leaguers.
imho the reds are the type of team that needs a really deep farm system, and both the prospects we gave up didn’t seem too far from the majors. that said, i don’t think either of them are going to be stars.
it just seems like more quantity than we needed to give up (depending on the money). but jocketty doesn’t really care about quantity i don’t think. if he’d given up alonso that would have been a different story.
I bet they say “he plays the game the right way” in the press conference. You watch.
My lord… just awful… I think I’m a combination of sad and pissed.
From Sheldon: RHP Josh Roenicke just told he’s going to Blue jays in Rolen deal
But the Cardinals were usually GOOD! The Reds are currently BAD! You do different things with a BAD team than you do with a GOOD team! At least you’re supposed to!!!
No sadness here, just nausea.
Alright, I’m going outside to play with the kids. I’m going to try to forget about the Reds for a while.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
lets just remember that ee is the worst defensive player in the major leagues. he’s streaky ( at best ) at the plate, and he hasn’t really improved any over the past 3 years. at least now we’ve got rolen penciled in for the start of next year, with frazier waiting in the wings when the inevitable injury strikes. at least we didn’
t trade alonso, and hopefully this hand injury won’t zap his power, like it’s been known to do. the only real negative from today is that arroyo and harang are both still reds. oh yeah, and the whole volquez situation. i guess that’s another career dusty can notch on his bed post.
How do you play the game the right way? Is Rolen the new cleanup hitter? Does he have to chill and marinate and sit a few days so Dusty can watch him and figure out what he is?
Time to break out my Brooklyn Dodgers hat for the remainder of this season…
Next year everyone is going to have bounce back years and stay healthy. Rolen is always healthy. :p
Just pathetic. Might as well say Nationals, Pirates, and Reds. The Reds aren’t any better than those teams.
This really reminds me of the Austin Kearns trade when everyone went crazy about how bad it will be losing Kearns with EE playing the role of Kearns. My prediction is it will be the same outcome, nothing for nothing (which is not good, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think it is the end of the world either).
As far as Weathers, Arroyo and Harang–Guess what, NOBODY WANTED THEM. They aren’t very good and make way too much money.
I would say we didn’t get any better or any worse today (don’t get me wrong, that isn’t a good thing when you are already terrible)
Here’s a fun game…. try to name one city with more than one major sport team where all of their teams are run worse than in Cincinnati.
With the Bengals and the Reds we get no relief in any sports season….
I was glad to see Hairston go…one less guy for Dusty to play favorites with. IF, the Rolen deal includes Roenicke AND Stewart it doesn’t make much sense. I understand getting a guy like Rolen for one reason, clubhouse leadership. This team desperately lacks any type of leadership in the locker room from its manager on down. Other than the leadership Castellini is smoking something because this team isn’t going to win this year and won’t win next year or any time in the future by giving up prospects.
stubbs
phillips
votto
rolen
gomes
nix
hannigan
gozo
I am not sick over EE, still would not have done the deal staight up for him and Rolen, but I see the point.
Tossing in two Roenicke and Stewart, even if they just turn out to be replacement level relief pitchers (and I will go on record predicting both end up better than that) is just a joke.
Going to go watch a single A game with the kids tonight. Try and remember why I like this game.
Like most of you. I don’t like these moves. How much difference is Rolen going to make?
NOT MUCH.
But he will be more expensive than EE.
Did we get any money in these deals.
It sounds like we just gave Hairston away.
I think I’m with you AnnapolisRed (#191). It feels like we overpaid now – but I think it will end up a wash in the end – or close to it.
How do you trade 2 major league players and a guy in AAA with a 1.67 era through 23 games this year (1.09 era through 24 games last year) for Rolen?
I’m going to dissent from the consensus of opinion that opposes this trade. I think that people like us who pay very close attention to our teams tend to over-value minor league prospects. We frequently talk about “well this is our 3B of the future, this is our 1B of the future, this person will be playing SS” etc.
It just rarely turns out that way, at least for teams that win championships. Yes, occasionally an organization may produce a couple of players that are good major league players over a course of a couple of years. The Reds have done that with Votto, Bruce, Votto and Bailey.
But another part of winning is having proven players on the team. Scott Rolen can be a solid, experienced, player at 3B for this year and next, at a minimum. He compliments the rest of our team, which right now is extremely young.
Defense is really important. You only need to look at EE’s inability to turn a routine DP yesterday – leading to 4 runs – as proof of that.
I don’t regret giving up EE. He’s been injury prone for such a young player, his defense is among the worst in the league, and his bat is increasingly questionable – streaky at best.
I like Roenicke and Stewart, but if the Reds are going to contend in 2010 they need to start adding pieces that are above average, and proven in the major leagues.
Sometimes we treat these prospects as though they have the same value as someone who is currently a proven major league player. The vast majority of them do not turn out that way, let alone injuries getting in their way of development.
So I’m sanguine about this trade. I’m so sick of seeing EE failing to improve, and aching for good, established baseball players, that I’m glad this happened.
If I never have to see EE drop his elbow before he throws to home, first or second, it won’t be a minute too soon.
I agree with a lot of what Steve said… I’m actually ok with this trade. If it was Alonso I would feel differently but that’s mostly because we could have gotten more for him.
I think EE will stay an average 3b and I think Stewart is the only one who could come back and haunt us
Keep in mind the organization’s track record for developing young pitching. Chris Gruler, Ryan Wagner, Ty Howington, etc. A player blossoming like Homer is more of the exception than the rule. Roenicke and Stewart may have ended up to be complete duds had they stayed. IF pitching is healthy next year (LARGE if, I’m aware) this team, may be one big move at SS or CF away from being completely solid.
It seems to me that such a deal may be in the mix if Walt is willing to trade a future closer and keep an established one with only 1 contract year remaining. We’ll have to wait and see. I’m keeping my tin-foil hat in the closet for the time being.
This really reminds me of the Austin Kearns trade when everyone went crazy about how bad it will be losing Kearns with EE playing the role of Kearns. My prediction is it will be the same outcome, nothing for nothing
Except Kearns still produced for his first season and a half with the Nats, didn’t he? Lopez has been good since leaving Washington. And the Reds got nothing in return.
Right, Kearns wasn’t the star many here thought he would become, but the Reds still got the very short end of that stick.
Who is Zach Stewart and what makes him so special?
Plus, the Reds just needed some bullpen help. Instead of moving role players or minor leaguers for bullpen help, like other teams at that deadline did, the Reds moved 2 of their starting 8. If they get bullpen help without sacrificing their offense, that season could have turned out very differently.
Steve I agree about Edwin but Zachary Stewart involved in this deal is a huge mistake. Ever since he got drafted in the 3rd round of 08 he has dominated at every level, as both a starter and relief pitcher. If he isn’t on the Blue Jays starting roster next year I will be surprised.
EE & a minor leaguer for Rolen I like. EE & Roenicke for Rolen, I don’t mind.
The trade is official — Scott Rolen and cash going from Toronto to the Reds in exchange for 3B Edwin Encarnacion, RHP Josh Roenicke and minor lg RHP Zach Stewart.
Encarnacion was pretty upset when he was told.
http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/
Any hope Scott Rolen will nix the trade? It’s happened before.
Edwin and Rolen seems like a wash. It was pretty apparent that Easy Eddie was not going to be the future at 3b. So maybe Rolen holds it down competently through 2010 while the Reds see if Frazier, Soto, or Francisco proves themselves.
Roenicke AND Stewart in addition seems like a steep price to me, but neither were seen as sure fire major leaguers yet were they?
JHJ seems like a throw away for salary. I don’t think his loss has much impact on the Reds now or in the future.
Reds stats at 3B this season: .213/.303/.331
Scott Rolen (Career) .284/.370/.500
Scott Rolen (Season) .320/.370/.476
I hate to say this, but I’ve been surprised that Jocketty hasn’t gotten more of his past players back. Many chided Jim Bowden while with the Nationals on being the Reds East…most people do and deal with what they’re comfortable with, and, when it comes to talent, you have your own scouting reports…do you trust yo has ur’s or someone else’s?
Bob Howsam raided the Cardinals in the late 60’s, from whence he came. But the Cardinals were loaded; I’m surprised Jocketty has raided their lower minors, too, since he came from there.
However, the more I think about this, I almost feel like it’s an ownership move as much as a GM move. Rolen is a big name, and Castellini (also with some St. Louis Cardinal roots) wants to do thinks in a big way. I can envision the conversation (this never happened, did it?)
Castellini: Walter, what’s happening on the trade front?
Jocketty: Boss, our guys aren’t in demand. Krivsky’s contracts are killing us. Our guys are untradeable, and what’s worth, Dusty refuses to play anybody new. He’s got this thing for speedy centerfielders and Hairston. Heck, he wouldn’t even play Hairston in Chicago when they were there together. It’s hard making deals with out talent.
Castellini: Well, what about this ‘farm system” that Krivsky was supposed to be good at developing? Anybody there?
Jocketty: We’ve got a bunch of guys that can’t play third base, some speedy outfielders, and lots of relievers. I’m real proud of how Alonso is progressing, though.
Casetellini: Third base? Encarnacion makes me crazy; he’s so inconsistent it reminds me of the produce market and the price of bananas. Hey, rumor is Rolen is available and he plays third base. What would it take to get him?
Jocketty: He’s got that no-trade contract…
Castellini: So, buy him out; everyone has his price, and he’s coming home for goodness sakes. He almost came here once. Hey, it was you that signed him in St. Louis. Give him a call.
Jocketty: Can’t do that, boss, it’s called tampering.
Castellini: Tampering…Walt, there’s always a way. Bowden was accused of tampering in the Griffey deal, and it just cost us Antonio Perez…and it turned out he was almost 50 instead of 21…find someone to get word to Rolen, for feelers.
Jocketty: It will cost us…
Castellini: We’ve got to get this deal done. The Big Red Machine didn’t wait on deals, they made them. Howsam made deals all the time; reworked the whole team in two years….haven’t you read Redleg Nation lately?
Jocketty: It was a different time then; contracts weren’t difficult
Castellini: Don’t care…get it done; public relations is trashed right now; we’re losing and even the Pirates are dealing. Make the deal.
Jocketty: What if they want Yonder?
Castellini: Yonder? Oh, you mean, Homer…do the deal, Dusty doesn’t like him anyway.
Jocketty: Not Bailey, Yonder Alonso, stuck behind Votto….
Castellini: Oh, Yonder…Homer…seems similar; since David Bailey is Homer but is a pitcher, may be we shoudl rename Yonder, something like K-Man, for strikeouts, since he plays 1B?
Jocketty: Boss, the trade…
Castellini: Right, right; no Yonder, I like that name. Trade anybody with talent that no one knows about yet; we need a good public relations hit…hey, we have pitchers…Howsam used to trade pitchers like they grow on trees; and don’t keep Encarnacion, he has to be included….
this was entirely fictional and dreamed up along a beach in South Carolina…
Wonder if we’ll ever know how much cash we received. Glad to hear it’s some.
@Eddie (#204): You may be right about Stewart and if he does make it quickly and successfully to the majors as a starter, then the trade will look worse for the Reds. And I liked Roenicke, too – he’s been great this year.
On the other hand, this move means the Reds are serious about competing in 2010, which is good news. We aren’t behaving like the Pirates, always trading good players for younger, cheaper players. We’re doing the opposite.
Before we accept as conventional wisdom that there was something wrong with the way Jockety worked in St. Louis (“there he goes again”), keep in mind how much he won there over the past decade compared to the Reds.
I think we’re going to have to wait and see how this turns out.
I’m almost angrier about Stewart being included in this deal than I would have been if it was Alonso. Stewart has proven himself at a higher level than Alonso, and he’s a pitcher. Not saying we won’t work it out, but Alonso is a 1B. We already have Joey Votto. Pitching wins championships. Zach Stewart was a high K, high groundball pitcher, perfect for GABP. And we gave him up for a 34-year old 3B. I don’t know how anyone can be “ok” with this deal. Do you honestly believe just getting Rolen will make us contenders next year, even if he’s healthy?
This leaves more questions than answers. With EE gone, and JHJ gone, who plays third when Rolen gets hurt? Rosales? Sheesh. And with Roenicke gone, does that mean we are keeping CoCo and his ridiculous salary for another year?
Who are we calling up to replace Hairston?
Here’s the sound of additional shoes dropping, per Rob Butcher:
Acquired from the Blue Jays 3B Scott Rolen and cash in exchange for 3B Edwin Encarnacion, RHP Josh Roenicke and minor league RHP Zach Stewart. Rolen is expected to join the club tomorrow.
Acquired from the Yankees minor league C Chase Weems in exchange for IF/OF Jerry Hairston Jr.. Weems will be assigned to Class A Dayton.
Selected from Louisville the contracts of RHP Justin Lehr and RHP Kip Wells.
There’s no way to compare Cincinnati to St. Louis. Both are Mid-continent teams, but the Cardinals function like a large market team due to the support of their fan base…which came as a result of management/ownership providing quality teams to follow.
The Cardinals salary budet is 50% to 100% larger than the Reds. Jocketty cannot operate with the same mindset….and this trade was the same mindset.
the cash could make this seem a lot more reasonable, but i feel like if it’s more than 1 mil it has to go through the comish right? so it may not be much. if we got rolen for what we would have paid ede, then the prospects seem reasonable.
i want to know who’s taking hairston’s spot? why no position player call up, didn’t we just deal two of our infielders?
MLB traderumors says Jays will pay some of the remaining 4 mil coming to Rolen and that Rolen asked to be traded for “personal reasons.”
Its funny how everyone loves all the minor league players until they get to the majors (Wagner, Gruler, Howington, Espinoza – All Reds first round picks, all busts). Its like backup quarterback is always more popular than the starter, until you realize why they are the backups.
Reality: we did not just trade two hall of famers. In fact, a many players have good games in the minor leagues and turn out to be just average pitchers. Many even have great years in the majors and turn out to only be so-so in the long run.
The question of “Who will be our 7th pitcher in the bullpen?” seems silly if you are solidifying one of your top 4 players in the batting order that will play everyday.
I’m tired of rooting for talent and want to start rooting for wins. Veteran presence, great defense, no more E5E5, and a good bat from the right side. Do I wish we could have gotten him for less? Of course. Is it better to have a solid offensive player with great defense? Definitely.
Seems like if Rolen wanted out that the Reds could have made a better deal of it. Of course Walt probably didn’t know that.
Who said Kip Wells was just minor league roster filler?
I’m ok with these two trades. EE was on my last nerve. If Alonzo had been included, I’d have been furious. I think the worst this is going to be is a “So What” type trade. Who knows though, Rolen might have a couple of good years left in him. I doubt that EE does. I wish WJ could have used DW or Rhoades to get some prospects though.
wait what!? Kip Wells!?
weirdly enough, kip wells has been dominating at louisville. who knew?
Yeah, Ricciardi isn’t going to let that bit of information get out before he trades him.
Okay I am hoping neither pitcher becomes top tier and maybe Rolen will be a veteran guy to teach Frazier/Soto/Francisco to play 3rd.
The worst comes when the Reds say they can’t afford to get real players because their money is tied up in contracts for Harang, Arroyo, Rolen, and Cordero.
Whatever cash we receive this year will be forgotten in adding up future contract totals.
Ken Griffey, Jr., may still be our highest paid player and he’s no longer on the team?
Glenn #217, both of those could pass through waivers so don’t be surprised if they get traded later in the season.
how will Rolen teach those guys to play 3b unless he goes to AA to teach them?
Is he going to tell Francisco to quit eating?
Anyway, additional money spent on Rolen’s contract, could have been better spent helping other teams buy out our over paid players contracts, and, frankly, just starting over.
from fay:
Drew Sutton lf
Adam Rosales 3b
Joey Votto 1b
Brandon Phillips 2b
Jonny Gomes rf
Laynce Nix cf
Alex Gonzalez ss
Ryan Hanigan c
Justin Lehr p
Wow. I couldn’t have imagined that one being run out.
Dusty Baker said Scott Rolen will hit fifth. He’s expected to get here tomorrow. Toronto is in Oakland today.
What is the word on Chase Weems? Looking at his stats, he is not setting the world on fire at single A. Anyone know anything about him?
Drew Sutton lf
Adam Rosales 3b
Joey Votto 1b
Brandon Phillips 2b
Jonny Gomes rf
Laynce Nix cf
Alex Gonzalez ss
Ryan Hanigan c
Justin Lehr p
That’s tonight’s lineup. Can someone explain Hanigan batting 8th, behind Gonzalez?
it is truely unbelievable that with an open roster spot we are starting drew sutton in left field. you’re telling me there isn’t one outfielder we could call up who deserves to be in left field more than drew sutton?
wtf
Who said Kip Wells was just minor league roster filler?
Haha, I thought the same thing as soon as I read the release. Corky Miller’s next, y’all!
I still expect to see one or more of the veteran pitchers to be traded in August. They’ll all clear waivers, I bet.
Steve, he’s a catcher. When Dusty played with Hank that’s where the C always hit. Its just baseball sense.
Steve Price…in spring training, Rolen can work with them in spring training.
and I just kinda added francisco on last, not a fan of him at all
Wouldn’t mind Balentien getting a look.
4:50pm: Richard Griffin of the Toronto Star reports that the Jays will pay all of Rolen’s 2009 salary, nearly $4MM.
Balentien’s not done marinating yet.
Well, Frazier is already in LF.
Soto is still a project and I’d be surprised if he’s in the big league camp.
Rolen will be in the trainer’s room most of the time, would be my guess.
this is just a really, really stupid deal…from what I’m reading, those sick of Encarnacion seem okay or happy about it.
I’m not an Encarnacion fan at all…I think he’s less than average.
I think trading for Rolen is the move of a losing franchise…and history repeatedly tells that story.
Good point Eddie. There’s always hope.
I’m not certain what Rolen’s making this year, but in 2008 he made over $11 million. He’s made 11-12 million each of the last four years
Dusty says Rolen will bat fifth. Hmm. Yeah, that makes sense.
This could actually be an okay lineup:
Hanigan
Rolen
Votto
BP
Gomes
Bruce
Nix
Janish
Chances of that happening? .00001 percent.
Not sure why I’m even caring at this point.
Balentien’s not done marinating yet.
—————————————-
Fire up the grill, Dusty!
for what it’s worth, i think sutton’s just starting tonight because he’s a warm body already in town. i expect Balentien to start tomorrow.
This is off topic and I know that the BoSox have a good farm system, but do teams think its a “privelage” to trade with the BoSox? The Braves trading Kotchman to them for LaRoche? WTF? VMart for relief pitcher prospects? I don’t know if people trip over themselves to deal with Theo or RedSox Nation is so good at overhyping their players.
This team has AAA talent and little more.
Just found it…$11,625,000….for the last 3/8 of the year, I guess that would be about $4.4 million.
He’s scheduled to make $11 million again in 2010.
That means over $45 million is tied up in cordero, Harang, Arroyo, and Rolen
Who says we can’t afford to pay players? We pay top dollar for mediocrity.
The sky is falling!!! The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!
I really like the Rolen deal. I don’t know why everyone is so high on Encarnacion. I think the guy is awful. He has more 20+ error seasons than 20+ HR seasons for crying out loud. He’s never put it together. He hasn’t improved on defense, and for those guys who are stats guys rather than tools guys, you should not be in love with E5.
For 2009 and 2010, Rolen is an upgrade. By 2011, one of Frazier or Francisco are ready.
The Reds made themselves better this year and next. After that, who knows?
The Reds will likely get Arroyo, Harang, Cordero, Phillips, Weathers, and Rhodes through waivers. You have to keep in mind that in this economy teams aren’t likely to add payroll so lower contract players will pass through waivers. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Angels, Yankees, Rangers, or Brewers added a guy like Harang or Weathers.
didn’t votto play left field when he first came up? what are the chances of moving him there this winter, and try to fast track alonso?
Per @ 242 – that isn’t a bad lineup and your right. It won’t happen.
Wells and Lehr brought up, EE and Roenicke gone? Taveras unavailable.
What, do we have 8 hitters available tonight?
This year is done, we’re not going to compete barring some sort of miracle
Next year though, I think we could have a competitive team even with just the roster we have now
CF – Stubbs
C- Hanigan
1b – Votto
RF – Bruce
3b – Rolen
2b – Phillips
LF – Gomes/Nix/Free agent
SS – Janish
With a pitching rotation like
Volquez
Cueto
Harang
Homer
Arroyo
with Wood and Maloney in triple aaa ready to step up if needed and we’ll have Owings in the bullpen.
I feel like that can be competitive. It would be even more competitive if Alonso has a great spring training, makes the team and Votto goes to LF (though still batting 3rd)
I just feel like there is no chance of this happening, at least not while Dusty is in charge. Maybe we’ll suck so bad the rest of the year that we’ll fire him and hire a good manager (Bobby V will be available)
Walt Jocketty says Rolen is a good rbi guy. He also admitted to caving in to the Jay’s demands. Folks, our GM is a yeloow-bellied retard.
Walt Jockety said that Rolen requested to be traded here, he wasn’t happy when the trade talks ended
I wouldn’t count on Volquez next year, Matt. Sounds like he’s going to need Tommy John surgery.
Also, I’m buying a powder-blue Albert Pujols jersey if we open the ‘10 season with a Nix/Gomes platoon in LF.
Just think. This time next year the Reds will be trying to unload Rolen’s salary to a contender.
I don’t like this trade one bit, and Jockety won’t find a trading partner as gullable as himself to trade with to get that good of a return. Next year Walt will trade Rolen for another undersized catcher.
This is what I think:
Best trade Reds ever made: Trading away Edwin Encarnacion
Worst trade Reds ever made: Trading away Zach Stewart
Dusty was really choked up at seeing Roenicke go. So much so that when he said how he hated to lose him during the press conference he mispronounced his name.
Jocketty and Baker were determined to have Rolen. They are convinced that he is going to come in and start punching guys in the face when they don’t play hard. I guess Phillips and Taveras should get ready to have their faces punched.
I wondered if they simply got Rolen so they could find out how Arroyo has been tipping his pitches when the Reds play Toronto?
Speaking of Arroyo, what’s with the big performance enhancing drug confession? Was there a point in his career that his performance ever suggested he might be? Of course, it was when he played with Boston. I beginning to think performance enhancers must have been part of the meal plan there.
Are we sure that Taveras didn’t get traded? He isn’t in the line-up, which BTW is the most god awful line-up ever know to mankind.
I know most of you will disagree with this, but in two years we’ll wish we still had Edwin Encarnacion.
Two new polls in the left sidebar above.
I’ll have a new one about the trade deadline deals soon.
Agreed, Jim. This lineup could only be worse if Taveras were in it.
They are convinced that he is going to come in and start punching guys in the face when they don’t play hard.
Let’s assume he’s that type of guy (no idea whether he actually is). I just don’t see how a guy, even of Rolen’s considerable reputation, can walk into the clubhouse two-thirds of the way through the season and suddenly start screaming at guys when they screw up.
I don’t pretend to have been in a big-league clubhouse before, but that’s the sort of thing you kind of have to work up to from spring training, isn’t it? I mean, unless you’re kind of a dick?
Just checking in…I HATE the trade…not as much as EE getting trading but giving up Stewart was stupid. I don’t care for Walt at ALL. He made stupid trades with the Cards (trading away Haren, etc…) this one is just as bad. If it was EE and Roenicke for Rolen, I could handle it, but giving up Stewart for a has been is just plain dumb! This club will not succeed in the near future. We are officially in the same club as the Pirates and Royals…Here’s to you Walt, my wife thanks you because I won’t spend as much time watching your club.
gotta love teams build around pitching and defense. 31 yr old rookies and huge oafs in center field that is.
lehr having a little trouble putting guys away in the early going. 16 pitches to two batters.
Lehr does not appear to be fooling anyone early on. Great play by Nix in CF, Welsh is pointing out the obvious at how this Reds team is not fundamentaly sound.
welcome to the big leagues grandpa. you’ll fit right in with the rest of the reds starters, this inning could be ugly.
No Taveras and Gonzo at the bottom…that’s a win in my mind as far as lineups go.
Matt Klinker just told us that he is going to be starting in AAA for Louisville this Sunday.
So this trade may not be good for the Reds, but it’s great for one of our spotlight guys.
http://redlegnation.com/?p=4472
My guess for tonights game
23-1. Anyone else???
Poor Justin Lehr.
FSN Ohio graphic called him Jason Lehr.
Hope not, Jessica!
Wait wait wait….I just realized something. Why isn’t Nix leading off???? Isn’t he the center fielder tonight? I’m so confused.
not bad. in fact, far better than most reds starters have done lately.
Too bad Votto is entrenched at first cause Kevin Barker is tearing it up, .400 average with 5 homers over the last 28 days. Stubbs is also hitting better, both 1 for 1 tonight.
Sutton with .091 avg
Rosales with a .205 avg
First two hitters are actually worst than usual
How come the Sox and Phils can rip off the Tribe, while we have to sit here and look at the Rolen trade :poke:
God, I hate how much everyone moans about every single deal. Half of the guys complaining have never seen Stewart throw a single pitch, but are going overboard. Because of the Rolen deal the Reds are a better team in 2009 and 2010. Frankly, by 2011, Roenicke and Stewart will be replaced by new prospects.
I never saw Stewart but I wasn’t all that impressed with Roenicke
No one is complaining about the JHJ deal.
I wonder if they got Rolen jerseys pressed up ready for sale yet.
lol, nathan!
I don’t think it’s clear that the Reds are better in 2010 with Rolen.
Either way, this is the type of deal a team makes when they are close to being a contender. Jocketty must think we are close. I disagree.
We still need competent major leaguers at SS, CF, and LF. And Rolen is old, he’s about to decline. Plus he can’t stay healthy.
Perhaps Arroyo will give him some PEDs. That would help.
I could start Chad.
Chad, you need to line up Paul Janish for a podcast interview. We have to know what he did to Dusty.
Does anyone else have the fear that Jocketty is going to rape the farm system?
I’ll work on that, Jim.
Chad…can you do something about Daniel Dorn? I mean can you somehow convince him that it’s June when it’s actually April? He always starts out so slow then hits great. I believe he is hitting .315 in June/July
Chemistry, leadership, “gamer”, “play the game the right way”, “the guy’s a pro”.
Welsh just hit all the Rolen keywords in a twenty-second span. He earned his Jocketty bonus tonight.
Fire Dusty Baker (AND Walt Jokerty)
Yeah, Dorn is just a flat-out hitter, and he’d probably have a chance of being in the bigs right now if he hadn’t started out so slow.
Then again, Jocketty wouldn’t even invite him to spring training with the big league club.
Also, I told my fiance who we traded since she’s headed to Florida on vacation. She refuses to believe me when I tell her that we sent Hairson to the stupid Yanks for a guy who’ll be bagging groceries next week.
Why?
I mean, truly and fully, why?
How will George Grande mispronounce “Rolen”?
Yeah, there must of been cash involved in that deal. If not, then Jocketty’s a moron.
I don’t have a problem with the JHJ trade at all. He’s a free agent at the end of the year. So, the team is saving money, which I hope they use in the off season, and we got somewhat of a prospect in return. What value does a player like Hairston who will be a free agent after this season really have for our team?
team phillips was picked off right there
Yeah, I think the ump missed that one. Fortunately.
300
Maybe Scott “never say die” Rolen?
When your a team like the Reds are…you should be trading FOR guys like Roenicke and Stewart, not giving them away. This trade is the type of a trade a contender makes to be better for three months, not for a team the is nearly in the cellar.
The JHJ trade doesn’t bother me, he would be gone next year anyways, so even if you get a bag of balls, at least that is something.
I was really hoping that the Yanks would take on Arroyo’s contract…something like the Reds paying the rest of this year, with them picking up the rest…
The Angels still need a SP and a RP, Harang and Weathers? Can they get Wood and others…Harang could take Lackey’s spot when he leaves via FA this winter…
Rhodes surely can get at least one good prospect, no?
I haven’t posted in a long time, but I can’t tell you guys how unbelievably pissed I was when I heard about the Rolen trade. Words cannot even express how stupid this move was. All this crap about a “youth movement” was just scam to fleece the fans into supporting a second-rate team all season. they have no intentions of building from within, no intentions of sustained success in the future. this is the same old song and dance we’ve all been through before. and furthermore, perhaps it’s just chad’s love for EE rubbing off on me, but I was really starting to like the guy. I don’t know what you guys think about this trade, but I think it was a piss-poor move.
amen EKY
When your a team like the Reds are…you should be trading FOR guys like Roenicke and Stewart, not giving them away.
BINGO!!!
Drew Stubbs 2 for 2, 2 steals…now up to 40 on the season. I like what I am seeing here lately after he hit that slump.
i think a lot of people are right when it comes to the ede trade.
i think rolen helps the team this year and next when he’s on the field.
i think paying a guy like him a ton of money in his decline is very risky.
i think jocketty values prospects less than other gm’s, and that could be dangerous for a team in our position if the owner isn’t willing to increase payroll.
i think stewart was too much to give up considering salary and injury risk.
overall, it has the chance to go either way, but on paper it looks better for the jays.
the real question will be what pieces get put in place around him next year. also, jocketty has gone on the record saying he wants to extend rolen. danger.
Hoping that Lehr was settling down after a rocky beginning to his first MLB start.
Jocketty loves Rolen = Baker loves Taveras
I’m not sure we’ll wish we have EDe in two years; his contract is up after 2010, we’d have to pay him a FA rate, and hopefully by then one of Frazier/Soto/Francisco/etc. is ready.
If you take the cash from Toronto & EdE’s salary into account, we’re essentially spending $2M extra (in total) to go from EdE to Rolen until the end of 2010. That’s reasonable, IMO. It’s only when you add giving up both Roenicke and Stewart that it goes bad.
Oops, at least until I do the math *properly*. It’s paying 5.6M extra for a year and a third of Rolen.
I thought on Reds Live that they said that Toronto is picking up the difference between EE’s and Rolen’s salaries or is that just front office BS?
Chad…in your personal opinion do you think they will move Votto to LF or just trade away Alonso?
Would they possible move Votto to LF so Barker (.282, 19 homers) can play 1B?
i’d hit for lehr here. you just brought kip wells up as the long man, lehr is at 75 pitches already, and if he gives up much more this game will get out of hand.
we need the return of captain hook. dusty lets the starters lose too many games.
Kevin Barker is a 34-year-old MiLBer. He has no MLB future.
Bill N. – I agree. I think a lot of us are forgetting that EE is due $5.175 mil next year. For his production this year, that’s a bad contract. Could it be better next year? Yes, but it could also stay the same. Rolen’s production for what we will be paying him, which you state well, is easily justifiable. Think of it as signing Rolen as a free agent to a one year contract for $4.2 mill during the off season (assuming the Jays pay the remainder of his salary this year). I think we’d all go for that. The rub is trying to determine the value of Roenicke and Stewart, which is more difficult. They may be no better than replacement players, but they could be all stars as well. Only time will tell.
I don’t love this trade, but I don’t hate it as much as some of us do after breaking down the numbers and the values the players provide.
joey v seems to have hit his first slump of the season. rolling over on a lot of pitches.
For a team struggling to score runs…wouldn’t those 19 homers be nice?
I was just thinking if they were going to move Votto to LF then why not let Barker play first until Alonso is ready?
yeah, in his last 6 games he’s hitting .158/.158/.368. and the reds have lost all but one.
Here’s Barker’s MLB numbers:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/barkeke01.shtml
They speak for themselves.
Ted Williams would slump being in the same line-up as Votto is stuck in.
i think everyone is forgetting the ede was hurt at the begining of the year. he’s not corey patterson. he hit 25+ hrs last season, and since coming of the dl he’s hitting .276/.375/.526, which is slightly ahead of his career numbers.
he’s a good hitter, entering his prime, who will probably get better. paying 5 mil for that is totally reasonable if not a downright steal.
of course, that’s not considering his defense, which wish as i might, has not gotten better. rolen is a big upgrade there, and hopefully he’ll keep hitting.
my guess is we gave up 2 good prospects and 5 mil for better defense at third and veteran leadership. whether that’s worth it is in the eye of the beholder, but i’ll go with fay’s take: seems like a high price.
Hey, he batted .282……..10 years ago, haha
The Reds have $50M still on the payroll next year in the form of Arroyo, Cordero, Harang, Lincoln, Rhodes, Gonzalez, and Taveras. How much of that can Jocketty dispose of after waivers, and how much of it should he?
Jocketty having orgasms talking about Rolen with GG and CW.
Wlech said “hot and heavy.” How appropriate.
Yes, it’s a possibility that Votto will get moved to LF, but not until 2011 in my opinion.
Alonso won’t be ready until next year, mid-season, at the earliest. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him traded at some point.
I have no problem with trading Alonso if we get back a piece that we need. I have NO CONFIDENCE in Walt Jocketty being able to determine what pieces we need.
Catching up on some posts from above….been playing Lego Indiana Jones with the kids.
Soto won’t be ready by 2011.
Francisco will NEVER be ready to be a ML 3B.
Frazier could be ready, but the Reds aren’t playing him at 3B, so you see what they think about his future at the position.
Walt’s already said he hopes to sign Rolen to an extension past 2010. Sheesh.
Glad to see you back, EKy. I agree with your take.
Jocketty is still talking about how wonderful Rolen is. It’s been 10+ minutes.
I’m getting dumber every second I listen to Jockerty foam at the mouth in the booth right now. Sheesh, what an idiot.
He is completely clueless.
Mr. Jocketty, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Now Jocketty is talking about what a stud Chad Weems is.
#332. Good call.
I love Lance McAlister’s take (on Twitter):
how much faith can you have in a gm that passed arbitration and a 1yr deal to sign edwin for 2yr…including 4.75 next yr…?
and then 4 months later realizes the team is better off without that 3b?
It is pretty clear that Jocketty has a man crush on Rolen.
They did just talk about the SS position and Jocketty did not mention Agon as an option for 2010. That is a good thing.
More from Lance:
the reds trade their best pitching prospect for a 34-yr old 3b? Can i get a copy of that plan please?
Jocketty has NO PLAN WHATSOEVER.
#336: Thats because he already has a deal in place to send struggling Jay Bruce to whatever team has the rights to Edgar Renteria.
Welsh just stated the EE was happy to be gone. I guess you cannot blame him.
Votto with a BOMB!
Big Boy part of the ballpark.
Interesting that EE pumped his fist into the air in celebration when he was informed of the trade. What does that say of the situation in Cincinnati?
Votto- slump breaker!!!!
There’s the Joey we know and love!
And there’s BP.
Back to Back.
holy crap .. when’s the last time the good guys hit back to back jacks????
TP is a shot!!!
Where’s Rolen to go back to back to back
Thats the Scott Rolen veteran leadership right there.
I don’t blame Edwin.
I know, I’m a Edwin fan, but I really do think he’s going to be very good in Toronto. We may regret this deal even if Zach Stewart flames out.
EE pumped his fist cause he is hoping that team doesn’t realize how terrible he is at third.
#349: I’ve always really liked EdE, but the question to me is whether he can start producing well enough to justify a corner outfield (or now a DH) spot. I think he has proven he is a poor at 3B. I’ll root for him, but I’m not sure.
#347: He is trying to find a time machine so he can travel back to when he had some power.
EE is frickin terrible. the kid who plays 3rd on my daughters t-ball team has less errors this season, and he sucks!
Edwin is four months older than Votto. It’s a good thing Joey didn’t start out slowly, because Jocketty would have given up on him.
ee is 4 american months older than votto …. we may find out this winter that he’s 37
I take it the kid on the t-ball team las less than four errors then.
I hate this trade. They went from a 6 to an 8 (IF Rolen is healthy and EE doesn’t really improve) at 3b, added payroll, and gave up 2 top 10 prospects. If you pay any attention to the Reds minor league system, you hate this trade.
Here’s the question I have: If veteran leadership is all-important, and Scott Rolen delivers it so well – How in the world are the Blue Jays 49-53???
Any chance the Face of the Franchise gets bumped out of the ridiculous #4 spot?
Of course, he has twice as many HR as Rolen…
yeah, 4 errors, give or take 20…. me and my stupid sarcasm
Wow. I just have to say that you guys have a serious mental hang up on Jockety and this trade.
I listened to the interview on TV and while you might disagree with him on how he assesses the talent, your comments here about him being “insanely idiotic” or “rambling, incoherent” or “completely clueless” or “foaming at the mouth” are the kind of over-the-top, unsupported rants of other blogs.
He thinks Rolen is a better hitter and fielder than EE. He thinks that Rolen will provide important leadership to the team. He thinks Rolen is basically healthy and has a good chance of being productive for a couple of years. His feeling was that the two young arms were worth those advantages.
There has been a respectful debate on this site this afternoon about the trade, with lots of arguments and reasoning on both sides. Given the close arguments on both sides I think it’s difficult – in fact, unprovable – to say which side is right or wrong today.
Now you might disagree with any part of that, but to use the language that you are toward Jockety strikes me as kind of juvenile name-calling, lacking in substance.
The main thing I like about this place is that people engage in arguments with reasoning and evidence, not personal attacks.
Reds: We want Rolen.
The Jays: okay we will take these two prospects.
Reds: Okay you can have them and Edwin.
The Jays: Uh, if you want us to take Edwin then we want better prospects.
but, the kid could have turned 2 against the padres yesterday. i’m sure of it!!!
This deal makes me feel that we are stuck with Dusty at least another year. If Jocketty lacks the objectivity that he has demonstrated in this trade then he and Baker were made for each other.
Good question Chris. I am not sure acquiring Rolen has anything to do with veteran leadership, I think Jocketty just wanted Rolen on the team.
C’mon, Steve, those were quotes from “Billy Madison” about rambling and incoherent. It was just a stab at humor, methinks.
Not sure if anyone has said this yet, but, I’d bat Rolen 2nd, but I imagine Dusty wouldn’t. That would leave Phillips at 4. Until next season, then Bruce 4th and Phillips 5th.
What’s with the career .209 hitter?
Especially since he doesn’t seem to be fast.
not a bad first at bat
Who ever thought the .091 hitter would have been 0 for 3 in the leadoff spot?
Respectful at bat!
Thats not the way to earn playing on this squad, Wladimir.
Great play by Tulowiski. Robs the new Red of a hit.
At least we got to hear George say Harriston maybe for the last time in this inning.
There has been a respectful debate on this site this afternoon about the trade, with lots of arguments and reasoning on both sides. Given the close arguments on both sides I think it’s difficult – in fact, unprovable – to say which side is right or wrong today.
I’ll say this: Take a read around the internet. If you can find someone how DOESN’T think the Reds got fleeced – other than a troll, fanboy, or an in