This is a serious question; I don’t know enough about scouting and whatnot to make this determination. Not trying to offend anyone either.
Is Homer Bailey an AAAA pitcher? He can dominate the minors, but his ERA so far is 7.63 in the big show. I know he’s only 22, but I’m starting to worry. He did have that one good start, which gave me some hope, but so far, everything else has been crap. It’s probably too early to be thinking this, but I was just wondering what people thought that are more in the know about player development. When exactly is this sort of determination made?
Oh yes, and Dusty Baker is still an idiot. That’s the one constant with this team.
Did anybody actually believe we could win the division? Coming into the season, a .500+ record was the goal and should still be the goal. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake.
Homer Bailey is what I thought he was, a AAAA pitcher. I was stupid enough to fall for his one start instead of sticking to what I really believed and what I have been saying for the past two years. The guy’s fastball is straight as an arrow and he doesn’t have another pitch that the hitters have to respect.
I would like to ask the same question I asked in comment 120 of last night’s game thread….
Why would Dusty have left a young pitcher out there to rot?
I don’t like it when he does it to Arroyo or Harang either, but they’re proven.
Bailey is a young pitcher who needs to establish confidence…and that’s true for all young pitchers making the jump.
We have 12 pitchers for goodness sake. No one was even warming up until nearly seven runs had scored.
Even if Baker doesn’t think Homer has big league stuff and doesn’t want him on the staff, how does that help Bailey’s trade value?
I think Baker quit last night. I think last night’s managerial performance potentially cost the Reds millions of dollars in value, in many ways…
1. Baker’s contract, which needs to be bought out
2. Reinvesting in Homer again
3. Lost money in talent value in the trade market.
I’m not overstating my case.
I personally think there’s a personality/control battle going on in the front office. I’ve mentioned Baker’s use of young players a couple of times in different threads, and I suppose I’m being a broken record, but Dusty has ways of protesting his roster by how he manipulates his line up (Rob Neyer’s blunder book discusses this, here’s the link to my summary of the chapter in the book:
I also think Dusty was protesting his own benching of Phillips. I think he benched Phillips out of public outcry moreso than his own desire to “punish” BP. As was mentioned in the game thread, Baker was said before the game that he may be using BP later in the game because he didn’t want to lose a game over “principals.”
Isn’t it his job to establish and set principals?
I think he was so mad at the situation he had to take it out on some young player rather than BP; Dickerson wasn’t in the game, so it was Homer.
I’m not saying in anyway that Homer looked good last night…but, I keep reading where people say his fastball is straight, but they also say he’s missing he wasn’t attacking the hitters and that he had difficulty with his command.
It could be all those things…which happens with a young pitcher, and that’s where the confidence factor comes in to play…it’s called “low leverage” which I’ve also mentioned all year.
Anyway, I didn’t see Homer shaking off any pitches…the pitches were called by the dugout…and it sure seemed to me that his ball was really moving, at least at times.
Homer deserves his share of the blame, but it’s Dusty’s job to cultivate some long relievers, and he’s decided not to do that either.
I’m even missing Bob Boone and his micro-management right now.
Barry Larkin should be managing this team tonight.
1 – Bailey had two good games in a row, against St Louis and Philly, no less. It doesn’t blow the stink off him from last night, but I wanted to point out that it was more than 1 good start.
2 – Drew Sutton collected his first major league hit last night, an rbi double. I don’t know what he’s doing in the majors given that he hasn’t even played 3 months in AAA. (A knock on the excuse of why Stubbs in still in AAA)
3 – I see in the boxscore that Sutton played RF after his PH. Was Nix not available to field? I can’t find current year fielding stats, but he has never played the outfield in the minors prior to this season. Does anyone know if he played there in AAA this year? (I don’t have a problem with it since it wasn’t a close game, just curious if they’ve been playing him outside the infield.)
4 – The wheels are off. They’ve been off since June 7. Folks just choose to ignore it because of the single-digit number in the GB column of the standings. June 14th, the day they were swept by the Royals, is also an acceptable answer.
1st inning, the Dodgers score quickly. First two base runners reach & score on the third batter’s triple. Runner on third & nobody out, and Bailey retires 3 in a row w/o the run scoring.
2nd inning, the first three Dodgers reach again. They go single, homer, single. Up 4-1, Bailey gets a fly out and a gidp to end the inning.
I don’t think you are calling for Homer to be pulled in the 1st or 2nd inning. Where do you insert reliever in the 3rd inning?
-hbp, advance to 2nd on WP
-walk
-fielder’s choice, but nobody out on Votto/Janish error, bases loaded
-Run scores on wild pitch, runners on 2b&3b; 5-1
-groundout, 1 out (should be 2)
-single, 2 runs in, 7-1
-walk (Kemp)
-sac bunt, 2 out (Wolf)
-single, 2 runs in, 9-1 (Furcal)
-> Bailey pulled for Burton
I could see as early as Kemp or facing Furcal, but I don’t think Baker quit last night. I certainly disagree with “last night’s managerial performance potentially cost the Reds millions of dollars in value”.
I did notice in Monday night’s game a clear difference in managerial styles and confidence that comes from the top.
Torre had someone warming up in the first inning while the Reds only ended up with 3 runs (looked at the time like it would be more.) A signal to his team that they could overcome it. A signal that they had arms ready to take over if the starter couldn’t get it done.
In that respect, I agree with you Steve. Baker leaves the starters in for a pre-determined # of pitches, and take the blowout instead of fighting for the game early on.
I didn’t see last night any different than past nights like this, though.
Your last post (15) gets to what I’m talkiing about. Baker isn’t managing games, and, frankly, I don’t see that he’s managing much of anyone, other than his income.
As far as Neyer’s book, it would have to be opinion. There’s no way Dusty would ever admit this; Neyer and another writer listed patterns and actual behaviors in the book chapter.
I think a conversation with Cubs GM Jim Hendry would say a lot.
I went to my dentist this morning, and oddly enough (well, not odd for a doctor’s office) there was an old Sporting News out that was about preseason baseball predictions for 2009. There was an article about the Reds, Pirates, Royals, and O’s and their longstanding futility. The Reds were singled out for lack of consistency in the front office and manager spot… do people feel that Dusty deserves to go? And what does that do in terms of organizational consistency yet again?
Sidebar: There was a great quote from Jack McKeon in the articles regarding the Griffey trade in 2000. He said that he wanted pitching on the heels of starting Steve Parris in the extra game against the Mets in ‘99. Something to the effect of, “if they were going to spend that money, spend it on two pitchers and we would have won the division.”
I’ve called for them to fire Dusty many times, but I think it’s wishful thinking. He’s in a multimillion dollar contract through 2010. They paid Narron through 2008 even though they fired him in 2007. Narron was working on the cheap. I don’t see them eating the millions Dusty Baker stands to make in 2010.
They haven’t shown that they’ll eat anyone’s contract this year, in fact. This organization ate the contracts of several high-priced players over the last several years (Graves, Stanton, to name a couple) but I don’t see them doing that at all this year. In fact, Jocketty seems averse to doing that — Patterson made millions to suck all last year, and Taveras is doing the same thing. It’s as if they’re saying, “Well, we’re paying them to play,” rather than “Well, we’re paying them to play well.” So guys make millions sitting on the roster and blocking younger, better players.
Jocketty seems frozen in his tracks. I don’t think he knows how to fix this team. He won in St. Louis with trades and key signings, but he also had a $100m payroll. He’s working with 3/4 of that now and I think he’s stuck. People bash Dusty for not knowing how to manage young players. I think Jocketty is the wrong fit for a “small market” team. I’m all for stability — when we find someone to replace both of them.
On Homer—PITCHERS SLUMP. It happens. It happens more when you don’t attack with what’s working that night and instead follow a scouting report that doesn’t take those variables into account.
I wholeheartedly agree with Steve–Dusty quit on the team. Not last night, but the night before and last night was the snowball effect.
He shoulda yanked Owings but was content to take a beating in order to get him to some fabled pitch count number instead of managing the WINNABLE game. You had two more games in L.A., then an off day, then a series in Chicago where you could’ve swapped some tired bullpen arms for fresh ones. To add insult to injury, the theme that carried over to last night’s game wasn’t the fact that we weren’t pitching agressive, but that Phillips didn’t hustle (and remember, his gaffe was followed by two flyball outs–so who cares!!). The way Welsh and Grande were carrying on about it, you knew Dusty pissed in the well and that winning the game last night was secondary to the soap opera in the clubhouse. Way to keep your team focused, d*psh*t.
And while I’m at it, since when do we try out players at unfamiliar positions on a whim (Sutton), but we can’t put Phillips at short for a few games????
Just shoot me.
As for warming up; I’d do it first sign of trouble….
1st, 2nd or 3rd inning or all of the above?
Even in the 3rd inning, you start warming someone up after the 2nd batter (walk, runners on 2nd and 3rd). I doubt they get in there earlier than Kemp (already 7-1 game at that point.) The 3rd and 4th batters were both groundball/shoulda been outs.
There is a BIG difference between poor strategy, which I think is Baker’s problem, and having it out for certain players.
If everything you wrote in #9 is really Baker’s intent, shame on the front office for letting it go on.
And while I’m at it, since when do we try out players at unfamiliar positions on a whim (Sutton), but we can’t put Phillips at short for a few games????
Pitcher’s slump? He’s had one great start, one good start, maybe a mediocre start or two and the rest have been horrible, just horrible starts. He is lights out in AAA though.
I’ll say it another way…how did Joe Torre figure out to warm up a pitcher in the first inning the other night? Our manager couldn’t get a guy ready by the third?
It’s not a one batter equation; it’s managing the game.
If he thinks he has the wrong people, he needs to go tell somebody, OR, develop the players he has.
He can’t do it; won’t do it; refuses to do it.
And, I don’t mean multiple choice. All of the above…
Runs allowed by starting pitcher in game and dates since 1954
Name, Year, runs allowed, IP
Jimmy Anderson, 2003, 11, 5
Bronson Arroyo, 2008, 10, 1
Dan Serafini, 2003, 10, 2 2/3
Jimmy Haynes, 2003, 10, 4 2/3
Ryan Dempster, 2002, 10 4
Scott Winchester, 1998, 10, 3 1/3
Dave Burba, 1997, 10, 3 1/3
Kevin Jarvis, 1997, 10, 3 1/3
Homer Bailey, 2009, 9, 2 2/3
Johnny Cueto, 2009, 9 2/3
Bronson Arroyo, 2009, 9, 1
Bronson Arroyo, 2009, 9, 5 2/3
Josh Fogg, 2008, 9, 2
Brandon Claussen, 2006, 9, 2
Brandon Claussen, 2006, 9, 3
Eric Milton, 2006, 9, 4 1/3
Aaron Harang, 2006, 9, 5
Brandon Claussen, 2005, 9, 3 2/3
Eric Milton, 2005, 9, 5 2/3
Jung Bong, 2004, 9, 3 1/3
Cory Lidle, 2004, 9, 3 2/3
5 occurrences in 2003 (Dempster twice, Paul Wilson, Reitsma, Graves)
twice in 2002 (Reitsma, Joey Hamilton)
once in 2001 (Osvaldo Fernandez)
once in 2000 (Harnisch)
none in 1999
once in 1998 (Tomko)
none in 1997
none in 1996
once in 1995 (Mark Portugal)
once in 1994 (Tim Pugh)
once in 1993 (Bobby Ayala)
none from 1985-1992
once in 1984 (Jeff Russell)
noen from 1978-1983
three in 1977 (Billingham twice, Doug Capilla)
none from 1972-1976
oncein 1971 (Tony Cloninger)
one in 1970 (Wayne Simpson)
three times in the 1960’s
none from 1954-1959
Eight runs:
7 times in 2008 and 2009
3 times in 2007
2 times in 2006
25 times from 2000-2009
15 times in 1990’s
10 times in 1980’s
8 times in1970’s
With more pitchers on the pitching staff, why are we letting starters take more beatings than before? Baker’s been the worst so far, but it looks like it’s a trend that’s drastically increased since the 1990’s.
It’s no wonder relievers can’t get anbody out…we don’t make them them pitch to enough hitters anymore.
Unless there are scouts looking at Gonzalez this weekend, move Phillips to SS now. (That can be his no-hustle punishment.) Also, looking at this weekend, it appear the Reds miss both Harden and Zambrano, according to the ESPN.com schedule.
Let’s see this defensive arrangement the rest of the season:
c – Hanigan
1b – Votto
2b – Sutton
ss – Phillips
3b – Encarnacion
lf – Gomes (not a free agent until 2012, let’s see what we’ve got here)
cf – Stubbs/Dickerson
rf – Heisey
“I’ve called for them to fire Dusty many times, but I think it’s wishful thinking. He’s in a multimillion dollar contract through 2010. They paid Narron through 2008 even though they fired him in 2007. Narron was working on the cheap. I don’t see them eating the millions Dusty Baker stands to make in 2010.”
The only way they could do it is to hire someone from within the organization to take the manager job. So how about Rick Sweet? The guy seems to be pretty well respected for the work he does in the minors. The guy should know a good portion of the club and their strengths and weaknesses.
The thing I don’t get on letting a starter get shelled is we are carrying a dozen pitchers. I don’t think the bullpen are really over stressed by work, heck a nice 2 or 3 inning stint by one of the middle guys might be something good for them. At the most, I bet if they have one 3 inning appearance, that is it.
He shoulda yanked Owings but was content to take a beating in order to get him to some fabled pitch count number instead of managing the WINNABLE game.
This kind of thing is what made the “I’m not going to lose a game based over a principle” comment so funny. One could argue that Dusty has lost dozens, if not hundreds of ballgames over principles – principles like:
- Fast guys = good; base-clogging = bad.
- “I ain’t no frontrunner.”
- CF bats first.
- SS bats second.
- Pitching coach stays put.
- A known veteran is better than an unknown prospect.
- The media nor fans should influence playing time decisions.
All that said, I don’t know how you blame Dusty for last night’s game. And as frustrating as he can be, he’s not the reason this team is in 5th place – at least not the only, or even primary reason.
They’re too young, too light on talent, and are constructed in an absolutely silly fashion. Dusty hasn’t helped, to be sure: Sutton plays RF, JHJ plays SS, BP plays SS, Taveras plays. And we still don’t know how much Drew Stubbs, Ryan Hanigan, Chris Dickerson, Paul Janish, Josh Roenicke, or Carlos Fisher can contribute. (Due to circumstances, some of that may change).
2009 stats: Sarasota 2-1 8 Games 8 Games Started 42.1 IP 4.89 ERA 1.44 WHIP
Carolina 3-2 6 Game 6 Game Started 36 2/3 IP 2.95 ERA 1.09 WHIP
Louisville 2-2 5 Game 5 Game Started 29 IP 2.48 ERA 1.21 WHIP
RN Exclusives!
The Big Board -- In-Depth Reds Organizational Depth Chart (updated 2/23/10)
Salary Chart -- Our chart on the current and future contract status for the Reds roster (updated 2/23/10)
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The wheels are off….time to be a “seller”
were the wheels ever on?
This is a serious question; I don’t know enough about scouting and whatnot to make this determination. Not trying to offend anyone either.
Is Homer Bailey an AAAA pitcher? He can dominate the minors, but his ERA so far is 7.63 in the big show. I know he’s only 22, but I’m starting to worry. He did have that one good start, which gave me some hope, but so far, everything else has been crap. It’s probably too early to be thinking this, but I was just wondering what people thought that are more in the know about player development. When exactly is this sort of determination made?
Oh yes, and Dusty Baker is still an idiot. That’s the one constant with this team.
Did anybody actually believe we could win the division? Coming into the season, a .500+ record was the goal and should still be the goal. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake.
Homer Bailey is what I thought he was, a AAAA pitcher. I was stupid enough to fall for his one start instead of sticking to what I really believed and what I have been saying for the past two years. The guy’s fastball is straight as an arrow and he doesn’t have another pitch that the hitters have to respect.
Wow. Glad I went to bed early. Nothing like being bleary eyed with an attitude.
The only question is how far will we fall?
Hopefully far enough that Baker is canned.
The wheels have indeed fallen off. I don’t think this team has the personell to turn this around.
I would like to ask the same question I asked in comment 120 of last night’s game thread….
Why would Dusty have left a young pitcher out there to rot?
I don’t like it when he does it to Arroyo or Harang either, but they’re proven.
Bailey is a young pitcher who needs to establish confidence…and that’s true for all young pitchers making the jump.
We have 12 pitchers for goodness sake. No one was even warming up until nearly seven runs had scored.
Even if Baker doesn’t think Homer has big league stuff and doesn’t want him on the staff, how does that help Bailey’s trade value?
I think Baker quit last night. I think last night’s managerial performance potentially cost the Reds millions of dollars in value, in many ways…
1. Baker’s contract, which needs to be bought out
2. Reinvesting in Homer again
3. Lost money in talent value in the trade market.
I’m not overstating my case.
I personally think there’s a personality/control battle going on in the front office. I’ve mentioned Baker’s use of young players a couple of times in different threads, and I suppose I’m being a broken record, but Dusty has ways of protesting his roster by how he manipulates his line up (Rob Neyer’s blunder book discusses this, here’s the link to my summary of the chapter in the book:
http://redlegnation.com/2009/07/15/second-half-predictions/#comments
I also think Dusty was protesting his own benching of Phillips. I think he benched Phillips out of public outcry moreso than his own desire to “punish” BP. As was mentioned in the game thread, Baker was said before the game that he may be using BP later in the game because he didn’t want to lose a game over “principals.”
Isn’t it his job to establish and set principals?
I think he was so mad at the situation he had to take it out on some young player rather than BP; Dickerson wasn’t in the game, so it was Homer.
I’m not saying in anyway that Homer looked good last night…but, I keep reading where people say his fastball is straight, but they also say he’s missing he wasn’t attacking the hitters and that he had difficulty with his command.
It could be all those things…which happens with a young pitcher, and that’s where the confidence factor comes in to play…it’s called “low leverage” which I’ve also mentioned all year.
Anyway, I didn’t see Homer shaking off any pitches…the pitches were called by the dugout…and it sure seemed to me that his ball was really moving, at least at times.
Homer deserves his share of the blame, but it’s Dusty’s job to cultivate some long relievers, and he’s decided not to do that either.
I’m even missing Bob Boone and his micro-management right now.
Barry Larkin should be managing this team tonight.
For my link about Dusty’s disregard of young players…it’s comment 45 for that thread…
1 – Bailey had two good games in a row, against St Louis and Philly, no less. It doesn’t blow the stink off him from last night, but I wanted to point out that it was more than 1 good start.
2 – Drew Sutton collected his first major league hit last night, an rbi double. I don’t know what he’s doing in the majors given that he hasn’t even played 3 months in AAA. (A knock on the excuse of why Stubbs in still in AAA)
3 – I see in the boxscore that Sutton played RF after his PH. Was Nix not available to field? I can’t find current year fielding stats, but he has never played the outfield in the minors prior to this season. Does anyone know if he played there in AAA this year? (I don’t have a problem with it since it wasn’t a close game, just curious if they’ve been playing him outside the infield.)
4 – The wheels are off. They’ve been off since June 7. Folks just choose to ignore it because of the single-digit number in the GB column of the standings. June 14th, the day they were swept by the Royals, is also an acceptable answer.
Drew Sutton has never played outfield since becoming a professional.
Was Rob Neyer opining about Baker or does Neyer actually know (have sources) that told him that Baker was behaving that way?
When do you think Bailey should have been pulled?
1st inning, the Dodgers score quickly. First two base runners reach & score on the third batter’s triple. Runner on third & nobody out, and Bailey retires 3 in a row w/o the run scoring.
2nd inning, the first three Dodgers reach again. They go single, homer, single. Up 4-1, Bailey gets a fly out and a gidp to end the inning.
I don’t think you are calling for Homer to be pulled in the 1st or 2nd inning. Where do you insert reliever in the 3rd inning?
-hbp, advance to 2nd on WP
-walk
-fielder’s choice, but nobody out on Votto/Janish error, bases loaded
-Run scores on wild pitch, runners on 2b&3b; 5-1
-groundout, 1 out (should be 2)
-single, 2 runs in, 7-1
-walk (Kemp)
-sac bunt, 2 out (Wolf)
-single, 2 runs in, 9-1 (Furcal)
-> Bailey pulled for Burton
I could see as early as Kemp or facing Furcal, but I don’t think Baker quit last night. I certainly disagree with “last night’s managerial performance potentially cost the Reds millions of dollars in value”.
I did notice in Monday night’s game a clear difference in managerial styles and confidence that comes from the top.
Torre had someone warming up in the first inning while the Reds only ended up with 3 runs (looked at the time like it would be more.) A signal to his team that they could overcome it. A signal that they had arms ready to take over if the starter couldn’t get it done.
In that respect, I agree with you Steve. Baker leaves the starters in for a pre-determined # of pitches, and take the blowout instead of fighting for the game early on.
I didn’t see last night any different than past nights like this, though.
Greg,
Your last post (15) gets to what I’m talkiing about. Baker isn’t managing games, and, frankly, I don’t see that he’s managing much of anyone, other than his income.
As far as Neyer’s book, it would have to be opinion. There’s no way Dusty would ever admit this; Neyer and another writer listed patterns and actual behaviors in the book chapter.
I think a conversation with Cubs GM Jim Hendry would say a lot.
As for warming up; I’d do it first sign of trouble….
I went to my dentist this morning, and oddly enough (well, not odd for a doctor’s office) there was an old Sporting News out that was about preseason baseball predictions for 2009. There was an article about the Reds, Pirates, Royals, and O’s and their longstanding futility. The Reds were singled out for lack of consistency in the front office and manager spot… do people feel that Dusty deserves to go? And what does that do in terms of organizational consistency yet again?
Sidebar: There was a great quote from Jack McKeon in the articles regarding the Griffey trade in 2000. He said that he wanted pitching on the heels of starting Steve Parris in the extra game against the Mets in ‘99. Something to the effect of, “if they were going to spend that money, spend it on two pitchers and we would have won the division.”
I’ve called for them to fire Dusty many times, but I think it’s wishful thinking. He’s in a multimillion dollar contract through 2010. They paid Narron through 2008 even though they fired him in 2007. Narron was working on the cheap. I don’t see them eating the millions Dusty Baker stands to make in 2010.
They haven’t shown that they’ll eat anyone’s contract this year, in fact. This organization ate the contracts of several high-priced players over the last several years (Graves, Stanton, to name a couple) but I don’t see them doing that at all this year. In fact, Jocketty seems averse to doing that — Patterson made millions to suck all last year, and Taveras is doing the same thing. It’s as if they’re saying, “Well, we’re paying them to play,” rather than “Well, we’re paying them to play well.” So guys make millions sitting on the roster and blocking younger, better players.
Jocketty seems frozen in his tracks. I don’t think he knows how to fix this team. He won in St. Louis with trades and key signings, but he also had a $100m payroll. He’s working with 3/4 of that now and I think he’s stuck. People bash Dusty for not knowing how to manage young players. I think Jocketty is the wrong fit for a “small market” team. I’m all for stability — when we find someone to replace both of them.
On Homer—PITCHERS SLUMP. It happens. It happens more when you don’t attack with what’s working that night and instead follow a scouting report that doesn’t take those variables into account.
I wholeheartedly agree with Steve–Dusty quit on the team. Not last night, but the night before and last night was the snowball effect.
He shoulda yanked Owings but was content to take a beating in order to get him to some fabled pitch count number instead of managing the WINNABLE game. You had two more games in L.A., then an off day, then a series in Chicago where you could’ve swapped some tired bullpen arms for fresh ones. To add insult to injury, the theme that carried over to last night’s game wasn’t the fact that we weren’t pitching agressive, but that Phillips didn’t hustle (and remember, his gaffe was followed by two flyball outs–so who cares!!). The way Welsh and Grande were carrying on about it, you knew Dusty pissed in the well and that winning the game last night was secondary to the soap opera in the clubhouse. Way to keep your team focused, d*psh*t.
And while I’m at it, since when do we try out players at unfamiliar positions on a whim (Sutton), but we can’t put Phillips at short for a few games????
Just shoot me.
As for warming up; I’d do it first sign of trouble….
1st, 2nd or 3rd inning or all of the above?
Even in the 3rd inning, you start warming someone up after the 2nd batter (walk, runners on 2nd and 3rd). I doubt they get in there earlier than Kemp (already 7-1 game at that point.) The 3rd and 4th batters were both groundball/shoulda been outs.
There is a BIG difference between poor strategy, which I think is Baker’s problem, and having it out for certain players.
If everything you wrote in #9 is really Baker’s intent, shame on the front office for letting it go on.
And while I’m at it, since when do we try out players at unfamiliar positions on a whim (Sutton), but we can’t put Phillips at short for a few games????
Absolutely
Honestly, I don’t think this team has the players to contend no matter who the manager is.
Pitcher’s slump? He’s had one great start, one good start, maybe a mediocre start or two and the rest have been horrible, just horrible starts. He is lights out in AAA though.
I’ll say it another way…how did Joe Torre figure out to warm up a pitcher in the first inning the other night? Our manager couldn’t get a guy ready by the third?
It’s not a one batter equation; it’s managing the game.
If he thinks he has the wrong people, he needs to go tell somebody, OR, develop the players he has.
He can’t do it; won’t do it; refuses to do it.
And, I don’t mean multiple choice. All of the above…
Runs allowed by starting pitcher in game and dates since 1954
Name, Year, runs allowed, IP
Jimmy Anderson, 2003, 11, 5
Bronson Arroyo, 2008, 10, 1
Dan Serafini, 2003, 10, 2 2/3
Jimmy Haynes, 2003, 10, 4 2/3
Ryan Dempster, 2002, 10 4
Scott Winchester, 1998, 10, 3 1/3
Dave Burba, 1997, 10, 3 1/3
Kevin Jarvis, 1997, 10, 3 1/3
Homer Bailey, 2009, 9, 2 2/3
Johnny Cueto, 2009, 9 2/3
Bronson Arroyo, 2009, 9, 1
Bronson Arroyo, 2009, 9, 5 2/3
Josh Fogg, 2008, 9, 2
Brandon Claussen, 2006, 9, 2
Brandon Claussen, 2006, 9, 3
Eric Milton, 2006, 9, 4 1/3
Aaron Harang, 2006, 9, 5
Brandon Claussen, 2005, 9, 3 2/3
Eric Milton, 2005, 9, 5 2/3
Jung Bong, 2004, 9, 3 1/3
Cory Lidle, 2004, 9, 3 2/3
5 occurrences in 2003 (Dempster twice, Paul Wilson, Reitsma, Graves)
twice in 2002 (Reitsma, Joey Hamilton)
once in 2001 (Osvaldo Fernandez)
once in 2000 (Harnisch)
none in 1999
once in 1998 (Tomko)
none in 1997
none in 1996
once in 1995 (Mark Portugal)
once in 1994 (Tim Pugh)
once in 1993 (Bobby Ayala)
none from 1985-1992
once in 1984 (Jeff Russell)
noen from 1978-1983
three in 1977 (Billingham twice, Doug Capilla)
none from 1972-1976
oncein 1971 (Tony Cloninger)
one in 1970 (Wayne Simpson)
three times in the 1960’s
none from 1954-1959
Eight runs:
7 times in 2008 and 2009
3 times in 2007
2 times in 2006
25 times from 2000-2009
15 times in 1990’s
10 times in 1980’s
8 times in1970’s
With more pitchers on the pitching staff, why are we letting starters take more beatings than before? Baker’s been the worst so far, but it looks like it’s a trend that’s drastically increased since the 1990’s.
It’s no wonder relievers can’t get anbody out…we don’t make them them pitch to enough hitters anymore.
Unless there are scouts looking at Gonzalez this weekend, move Phillips to SS now. (That can be his no-hustle punishment.) Also, looking at this weekend, it appear the Reds miss both Harden and Zambrano, according to the ESPN.com schedule.
Let’s see this defensive arrangement the rest of the season:
c – Hanigan
1b – Votto
2b – Sutton
ss – Phillips
3b – Encarnacion
lf – Gomes (not a free agent until 2012, let’s see what we’ve got here)
cf – Stubbs/Dickerson
rf – Heisey
GregD, you *sniff* complete me!
Great idea GregD, IF it could only happen
New strategy: CoCo pitches the first inning and we go from there.
New strategy: CoCo pitches the first inning and we go from there.
…and put Hannigan, Votto, and Cordero to lead off the game. If Hannigan or Votto gets on base, pinch hit for him, if not, he pitches a second inning.
I guess that could only work at home.
Ooo, Coco pitches the first inning, followed by Janish?
“I’ve called for them to fire Dusty many times, but I think it’s wishful thinking. He’s in a multimillion dollar contract through 2010. They paid Narron through 2008 even though they fired him in 2007. Narron was working on the cheap. I don’t see them eating the millions Dusty Baker stands to make in 2010.”
The only way they could do it is to hire someone from within the organization to take the manager job. So how about Rick Sweet? The guy seems to be pretty well respected for the work he does in the minors. The guy should know a good portion of the club and their strengths and weaknesses.
The thing I don’t get on letting a starter get shelled is we are carrying a dozen pitchers. I don’t think the bullpen are really over stressed by work, heck a nice 2 or 3 inning stint by one of the middle guys might be something good for them. At the most, I bet if they have one 3 inning appearance, that is it.
He shoulda yanked Owings but was content to take a beating in order to get him to some fabled pitch count number instead of managing the WINNABLE game.
This kind of thing is what made the “I’m not going to lose a game based over a principle” comment so funny. One could argue that Dusty has lost dozens, if not hundreds of ballgames over principles – principles like:
- Fast guys = good; base-clogging = bad.
- “I ain’t no frontrunner.”
- CF bats first.
- SS bats second.
- Pitching coach stays put.
- A known veteran is better than an unknown prospect.
- The media nor fans should influence playing time decisions.
All that said, I don’t know how you blame Dusty for last night’s game. And as frustrating as he can be, he’s not the reason this team is in 5th place – at least not the only, or even primary reason.
They’re too young, too light on talent, and are constructed in an absolutely silly fashion. Dusty hasn’t helped, to be sure: Sutton plays RF, JHJ plays SS, BP plays SS, Taveras plays. And we still don’t know how much Drew Stubbs, Ryan Hanigan, Chris Dickerson, Paul Janish, Josh Roenicke, or Carlos Fisher can contribute. (Due to circumstances, some of that may change).
You mean BP doesn’t play SS?