Assuming for discussion we will be sellers instead of buyers, what are everyone’s thoughts/favorites on whom we should be targeting? For example, Philadelphia obviously needs pitching. Anyone in their system we should really be looking at?
Jason Donald- a promising shortstop who played for the Olympic Team. He was hurt this year but has recovered and is in the Fightin’s plans for ‘10 to play 3B. But they’ll fork him over if they could get the big guy;
John Mayberry Jr.- put him in LF and watch him play. He could platoon with Nix although I’d put Nix in center and sent AW to the Nome Eskimos. Tremendous power and speed. May have some problems with RH pitching but he’ll learn. As a regular, he’ll hit 30 HRs and steal 20 bags. Plus his old man is a hoot and saved the World’s life outside the Tanga Lounge in Tampa a few years ago.
Give them Maloney back and take Doug Drabek’s kid.
World, I never met John Mayberry but loved watching the guy play, he seemed to love it so much. I really liked that Royals team, we were reminiscing about them on the blog the other nite.
With the bases loaded in the 9th and 2 out, 1 run down, who do you want at the plate ?
Of all the players I’ve seen since the 1950’s, George Brett.
Please bring back EE soon.
At least he’ll prove Brantley wrong with a dramatic HR now and then. He hit a few game winners last year, even when slumping.
Remember the HR he hit off Papelbon to tie a game in the 9th against the Red Sox last year ? Papelbon was throwing from light into shadows, Marty was talking about how his pitches must be hard to even see. So EE fouls off a few with 2 strikes, and then pulls one over the LF wall, Marty couldn’t believe it. Of course,
Lincoln proceeded to give up 2 HRs in the 10th to lose it.
hmm…clutch huh? the magic word…..the word that fewer people understand than understand string theory.
The most clutch Reds in the last 6 years (sorry that’s the data I have)
EE 2007 (yup #1. Maybe he forgot how to be clutch?)
Jimenez 2004
Hernandez 2009 (but he’s hitting like crap?!?)
Phillips 2006
Phillips 2009
Dunn 2005
not a single Red has had a “clutch” season other than these guys in the last 6 years
you know the more I think about the situation (which by the way almost NEVER happens) of who do you want to bat in the bottom of the what-ever-what-ever-whatever I think I’ll revise my list. I answered quickly off the top of my head
my revised list since-1950 would be
Williams
Bonds
Mantle
Pujols
Boggs
Fain
Thomas
Edgar
Jackie Robinson
and Musial
and Reds
Morgan
Robinson
Rose
Dunn
Griffey Sr
Davis
Temple
Larkin
Driessen
Casey
my definition of clutch was that used by hardball times. This is NOT the same as what I used to pick who I’d want up in that rare situation.
“Clutch” is the name we’ve given to the portion of Bill James’s Runs Created formula that includes the impact of a batter’s batting average with runners in scoring position and the number of home runs with runners on. The specific formula is Hits with RISP minus overall BA times at bats with RISP, plus HR with runners on minus (all HR/AB) times at bats with runners on. This stat is not a definitive description of “clutch hitting,” just one way of looking at it.
I still stand by something I have said since before the season started
The Reds don’t trade for Owings, Hernandez, and sign Taveras and this team is in 1st place easily
Hanigan catches, Dunn plays LF, Dickerson CF and Bailey/Maloney are the 5th starter
I think this goes to the playoffs
Dickerson
Hanigan
Votto
Phillips
Dunn
EE
Bruce
Janish
Harang
Volquez
Cueto
Arroyo
Bailey
Hairston can play CF sometimes and SS others
your bench could be Nix, Hairston, Freel and some catcher we would have had to come up with. Both Hairston and Freel hit right handed and could spell Dickerson vs lefties
I agree with the top of your all time list of hitters – Ruth, Williams, Bonds (*), Gehrig, Hornsby. I might put Hornsby ahead of Gehrig.
Putting Ted Williams at the top of the since 1950’s list is indeed an easy one, he’s the best hitter of that era and since.
But I’m talking about something different, not based on stats or any analysis.
It’s just based on what I witnessed and how I felt with a certain player at the plate.
Also what the great pitchers of an era said about who they didn’t want to face.
Ted Williams was close to the end by the time I saw him.
In the situation I described, he’d probably draw a walk and tie the game.
I saw Mantle srike out too many times in those 9th inning situations. I saw Pujols retired on weak ground balls by Danny Graves with the game on the line. Boggs choked every time I saw him in that situation. Hank Aaron was always great, but no better in that situation than at other times.
Based on what I saw, 4 guys stand out: Willie Mays in his prime, Pete Rose, Tony Gwynn, and George Brett. And I’ll stick with Brett. Goose Gossage would agree with me.
so going based on what I’ve seen I’d go with Bonds or Pujols
I didn’t start watching baseball till the 70s
I have never seen anything like Pujols, who I think is a hitting machine like ESPN likes to say.
and Bonds just never made outs
I would take Bonds from 2001-2004 over any hitter in the history of the game
but if we start talking about players during their peak, it gets more complicated
Boggs in 1988 for example. Giambi in 2001. Thomas in 1994
Then (of the players I’ve seen) you could start to include Chipper (last year!) and Morgan in 75
oh I wanted to point something important out about your scenario as well
who I’d want up to bat changes DRASTICALLY if the bases are loaded or not
the difference between
“With the bases loaded in the 9th and 2 out, 1 run down, who do you want at the plate ?”
and
“Runners at 1st and 2nd in the 9th and 2 out, 1 run down, who do you want at the plate ?”
Good point, Mike, I first posed a particular scenario – bases loaded with two outs, etc. but that was just meant to bring up the more general but not so well defined situation of “the game’s on the line.” The discussion was really meant to be about the latter, and I was switching back and forth.
Anyway this kind of discussion is just for fun anyway, and very subjective. Your picks of Bonds and Pujols, for the players you’ve seen, are probably consensus choices and at least as good as anybody else’s picks.
Speaking of the scenario of bases loaded, two outs, 9th inning, down a run, you’re right it hardly ever happens but it did happen in the All Star Game a couple years ago with the NL at bat and Albert Pujols available on the bench. So what does the NL manager, Tony LaRussa, do ? He lets Pujols sit and Aaron Rowand fly out to the end of the game.
Totally nuts, I still don’t get it.
And finally, I have a bias for let’s say Willie Mays over Pujols and Bonds because Willie played in such a pichers’ era. A game winning HR was an extraordinary event back then, now it’s commonplace.
“Brandon Phillips made a la-de-dah throw from second base, a lob that bounced in front of first baseman Joey Votto and skipped past for a throwing error that led to two unearned run. Then Phillips hit one that he thought was a home run and went into his strut, but the ball hit the top of the wall and bounced back in.
Phillips is being short and snippy with the media since we all reported that he refused to look for a sign from the third base coach in Kansas City and swung at a 3-and-0 pitch when he had the take sign.
Embarrassing. Embarrassing. Embarrassing. Phillips has too much talent to piddle it away.”
Anybody else tired of Phillips act? I am! :poke:
Targeting John Mayberry Jr. sounds pretty good, I haven’t watched him, but my brother was very impressed by him when he saw him play.
“Taveras” uncannily rhymes with “embarrass”. So much so that I think we should all create a colloquialism that refers to a bad lead-off hitter signing as a “taverassment” to an organization.
Oh by the way, I realize this Taveras bashing is a bit off topic, but where is the Drew Stubbs outcry? How many errors does he have? What is his OBP? I understand the “not wanting to start the clock” thing financially, but know when to say when if you actually want to win when you say that you want to win.
The Reds should have traded Phillips in the offseason for a position of need (OF bat at the time) and signed Orlando Hudson to a short-term deal. I would have thrown in a prospect to get back a bat like CF Matt Kemp from the Dodgers.
2009 stats: Sarasota 2-1 8 Games 8 Games Started 42.1 IP 4.89 ERA 1.44 WHIP
Carolina 3-2 6 Game 6 Game Started 36 2/3 IP 2.95 ERA 1.09 WHIP
Louisville 2-2 5 Game 5 Game Started 29 IP 2.48 ERA 1.21 WHIP
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Time for a recap of tonight’s titanic struggle….
Suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.
Also, TOS*
EE has played 5 games at AAA
.429 OBP/.674 SLG for a 1.116 OPS
he’s BB more than SO
3 2B and 3 HR
He’s also played on successive days
He’s got to be close to ready??
When that video came out I had a crush on the skateboarding blond.
Boy am I old.
mike, not until he’s clutch
Let’s get Jeff Brantley’s opinion: http://ballhype.com/video/brantley_is_proven_wrong_by_encarnacion/
Assuming for discussion we will be sellers instead of buyers, what are everyone’s thoughts/favorites on whom we should be targeting? For example, Philadelphia obviously needs pitching. Anyone in their system we should really be looking at?
Trade Harang to the Phillies.
Get:
Jason Donald- a promising shortstop who played for the Olympic Team. He was hurt this year but has recovered and is in the Fightin’s plans for ‘10 to play 3B. But they’ll fork him over if they could get the big guy;
John Mayberry Jr.- put him in LF and watch him play. He could platoon with Nix although I’d put Nix in center and sent AW to the Nome Eskimos. Tremendous power and speed. May have some problems with RH pitching but he’ll learn. As a regular, he’ll hit 30 HRs and steal 20 bags. Plus his old man is a hoot and saved the World’s life outside the Tanga Lounge in Tampa a few years ago.
Give them Maloney back and take Doug Drabek’s kid.
Best deal you’ll never make!!
Reds who need a rest: Hernandez, Phillips, Hairston, Bruce.
Reds who should be sent down: Rosales, Richar.
Reds who should be shipped out: Taveras, Dusty.
Players I’m happy to see:
Votto, Hanigan, Gomes.
Of course we don’t get to see Hanigan that often.
And at the end of interleague play, we won’t get to see Gomes that often either.
World, I never met John Mayberry but loved watching the guy play, he seemed to love it so much. I really liked that Royals team, we were reminiscing about them on the blog the other nite.
With the bases loaded in the 9th and 2 out, 1 run down, who do you want at the plate ?
Of all the players I’ve seen since the 1950’s, George Brett.
This is me tipping my hat to you for the “Free Falling” Titanic Struggle tonight. Well played, Chad.
Please bring back EE soon.
At least he’ll prove Brantley wrong with a dramatic HR now and then. He hit a few game winners last year, even when slumping.
Remember the HR he hit off Papelbon to tie a game in the 9th against the Red Sox last year ? Papelbon was throwing from light into shadows, Marty was talking about how his pitches must be hard to even see. So EE fouls off a few with 2 strikes, and then pulls one over the LF wall, Marty couldn’t believe it. Of course,
Lincoln proceeded to give up 2 HRs in the 10th to lose it.
hmm…clutch huh? the magic word…..the word that fewer people understand than understand string theory.
The most clutch Reds in the last 6 years (sorry that’s the data I have)
EE 2007 (yup #1. Maybe he forgot how to be clutch?)
Jimenez 2004
Hernandez 2009 (but he’s hitting like crap?!?)
Phillips 2006
Phillips 2009
Dunn 2005
not a single Red has had a “clutch” season other than these guys in the last 6 years
This is THE question isn’t it? THE BIG ONE! “With the bases loaded in the 9th and 2 out, 1 run down, who do you want at the plate ?”
the answer is VERY, VERY easy
In order
RUTH
Williams
Bonds
Gehrig
Hornsby
Mantle
Pujols
Jackson
Brothers
Cobb
Oh I just noticed the since 1950 part
Williams
Bonds
Mantle
Pujols
McGwire
Manny
Thomas
Allen
Mays
Aaron
and Reds since 1950 I’d want in that situation?
Robinson
Morgan
Foster
Davis
Klu
Dunn
Perez
Bench
as one of the best managers of all time said to answer the same question
“That’s easy, I want my best hitter”
you know the more I think about the situation (which by the way almost NEVER happens) of who do you want to bat in the bottom of the what-ever-what-ever-whatever I think I’ll revise my list. I answered quickly off the top of my head
my revised list since-1950 would be
Williams
Bonds
Mantle
Pujols
Boggs
Fain
Thomas
Edgar
Jackie Robinson
and Musial
and Reds
Morgan
Robinson
Rose
Dunn
Griffey Sr
Davis
Temple
Larkin
Driessen
Casey
How are you defining a “clutch season”, mike?
I didn’t see Taveras or Corky Miller on anyone’s list. What gives?
you didn’t see Taveras or Miller along with
Patterson, Plummer, Bilardello, Larson, Lawless, Castro, or Ruiz
my definition of clutch was that used by hardball times. This is NOT the same as what I used to pick who I’d want up in that rare situation.
“Clutch” is the name we’ve given to the portion of Bill James’s Runs Created formula that includes the impact of a batter’s batting average with runners in scoring position and the number of home runs with runners on. The specific formula is Hits with RISP minus overall BA times at bats with RISP, plus HR with runners on minus (all HR/AB) times at bats with runners on. This stat is not a definitive description of “clutch hitting,” just one way of looking at it.
don’t look now but a sweep by cleveland and this team could be in last place
the all-star game is close
who should make it for the Reds?
Phillips? Votto? Harang? Cueto? Cordero?
The Reds are bad but Cleveland isn’t capable of sweeping them.
Hanigan should make the All-Star Game for the Reds. It would be hilarious if a guy riding Dusty’s pine made it.
I was thinking that as well about Hanigan
McCann should make it hands down
but then who out of Molina, Iannetta, Baker, Martin and Hanigan?
Right now the voting goes; Molina, Kendall(??), IRod, Martin, McCann
no Reds is among the top 5 at any position. Which is really a shame since Phillips should probably be in the top 5
Y-City, there are only 2 games left in the Cleveland series. Anyone can beat anyone 2 straight times.
Runs Created/Game (adjusted for position) from 2008-09 for catchers with at least 225 PA in the NL
RUNS CREATED/GAME DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE PA
1 Brian McCann 2.88 7.23 4.35 784
2 Chris Iannetta 2.75 7.10 4.36 577
3 Ryan Doumit 1.83 6.15 4.32 513
4 David Ross 1.71 6.07 4.37 266
5 Ryan Hanigan 1.59 6.00 4.41 246
6 Geovany Soto 1.37 5.72 4.35 777
7 John Baker 1.19 5.57 4.38 427
8 Chris Snyder 0.80 5.16 4.36 569
9 Russell Martin 0.75 5.11 4.36 927
10 Miguel Montero 0.35 4.73 4.38 368
1B
RUNS CREATED/GAME DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE PA
1 Albert Pujols 5.49 11.59 6.09 955
2 Lance Berkman 2.25 8.33 6.08 957
3 Joey Votto 1.77 7.81 6.04 753
4 Prince Fielder 1.37 7.46 6.08 1011
5 Mark Teixeira 1.09 7.03 5.94 451
6 Adrian Gonzalez 0.78 6.86 6.08 1007
7 Nick Johnson 0.55 6.80 6.25 450
8 Ron Belliard 0.44 6.38 5.94 337
9 Carlos Delgado 0.39 6.39 6.01 798
10 Todd Helton 0.26 6.40 6.14 647
huh just looking at more #s
There are 16 NL catchers with at least 140 plate appearances
Looking at WAR (which includes offense and defense)
Hernandez is last on the list and the only catcher in the negative
I still stand by something I have said since before the season started
The Reds don’t trade for Owings, Hernandez, and sign Taveras and this team is in 1st place easily
Hanigan catches, Dunn plays LF, Dickerson CF and Bailey/Maloney are the 5th starter
I think this goes to the playoffs
Dickerson
Hanigan
Votto
Phillips
Dunn
EE
Bruce
Janish
Harang
Volquez
Cueto
Arroyo
Bailey
Hairston can play CF sometimes and SS others
your bench could be Nix, Hairston, Freel and some catcher we would have had to come up with. Both Hairston and Freel hit right handed and could spell Dickerson vs lefties
Janish doesn’t pan out Hairston can play SS
Mike,
I agree with the top of your all time list of hitters – Ruth, Williams, Bonds (*), Gehrig, Hornsby. I might put Hornsby ahead of Gehrig.
Putting Ted Williams at the top of the since 1950’s list is indeed an easy one, he’s the best hitter of that era and since.
But I’m talking about something different, not based on stats or any analysis.
It’s just based on what I witnessed and how I felt with a certain player at the plate.
Also what the great pitchers of an era said about who they didn’t want to face.
Ted Williams was close to the end by the time I saw him.
In the situation I described, he’d probably draw a walk and tie the game.
I saw Mantle srike out too many times in those 9th inning situations. I saw Pujols retired on weak ground balls by Danny Graves with the game on the line. Boggs choked every time I saw him in that situation. Hank Aaron was always great, but no better in that situation than at other times.
Based on what I saw, 4 guys stand out: Willie Mays in his prime, Pete Rose, Tony Gwynn, and George Brett. And I’ll stick with Brett. Goose Gossage would agree with me.
pinson I’m probably a bit younger
so going based on what I’ve seen I’d go with Bonds or Pujols
I didn’t start watching baseball till the 70s
I have never seen anything like Pujols, who I think is a hitting machine like ESPN likes to say.
and Bonds just never made outs
I would take Bonds from 2001-2004 over any hitter in the history of the game
but if we start talking about players during their peak, it gets more complicated
Boggs in 1988 for example. Giambi in 2001. Thomas in 1994
Then (of the players I’ve seen) you could start to include Chipper (last year!) and Morgan in 75
oh I wanted to point something important out about your scenario as well
who I’d want up to bat changes DRASTICALLY if the bases are loaded or not
the difference between
“With the bases loaded in the 9th and 2 out, 1 run down, who do you want at the plate ?”
and
“Runners at 1st and 2nd in the 9th and 2 out, 1 run down, who do you want at the plate ?”
Good point, Mike, I first posed a particular scenario – bases loaded with two outs, etc. but that was just meant to bring up the more general but not so well defined situation of “the game’s on the line.” The discussion was really meant to be about the latter, and I was switching back and forth.
Anyway this kind of discussion is just for fun anyway, and very subjective. Your picks of Bonds and Pujols, for the players you’ve seen, are probably consensus choices and at least as good as anybody else’s picks.
Speaking of the scenario of bases loaded, two outs, 9th inning, down a run, you’re right it hardly ever happens but it did happen in the All Star Game a couple years ago with the NL at bat and Albert Pujols available on the bench. So what does the NL manager, Tony LaRussa, do ? He lets Pujols sit and Aaron Rowand fly out to the end of the game.
Totally nuts, I still don’t get it.
And finally, I have a bias for let’s say Willie Mays over Pujols and Bonds because Willie played in such a pichers’ era. A game winning HR was an extraordinary event back then, now it’s commonplace.
Per Hal McCoy:
“Brandon Phillips made a la-de-dah throw from second base, a lob that bounced in front of first baseman Joey Votto and skipped past for a throwing error that led to two unearned run. Then Phillips hit one that he thought was a home run and went into his strut, but the ball hit the top of the wall and bounced back in.
Phillips is being short and snippy with the media since we all reported that he refused to look for a sign from the third base coach in Kansas City and swung at a 3-and-0 pitch when he had the take sign.
Embarrassing. Embarrassing. Embarrassing. Phillips has too much talent to piddle it away.”
Anybody else tired of Phillips act? I am! :poke:
Targeting John Mayberry Jr. sounds pretty good, I haven’t watched him, but my brother was very impressed by him when he saw him play.
“Taveras” uncannily rhymes with “embarrass”. So much so that I think we should all create a colloquialism that refers to a bad lead-off hitter signing as a “taverassment” to an organization.
Oh by the way, I realize this Taveras bashing is a bit off topic, but where is the Drew Stubbs outcry? How many errors does he have? What is his OBP? I understand the “not wanting to start the clock” thing financially, but know when to say when if you actually want to win when you say that you want to win.
The Reds should have traded Phillips in the offseason for a position of need (OF bat at the time) and signed Orlando Hudson to a short-term deal. I would have thrown in a prospect to get back a bat like CF Matt Kemp from the Dodgers.
Good one, Pete. This entire season is rapidly becoming a Taverassment.
@Pete:
Stubbs .278 BA, .364 OBP, .384 Slg, .748 OPS…27SB/5CS…I can’t find the fielding stats right now.
Free Drew Stubbs!
Stubbs doesn’t have an error. That’s right. His fielding % is 1.000