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Time for a recap of today’s titanic struggle….
FINAL
Atlanta 7
Cincinnati 0
WP: Hanson (2-0)
LP: Maloney (0-2)
BOX SCORE
POSITIVES
–None. Pathetic performance.
NEGATIVES
–TOS*
–I can’t say any more right now about the Dusty Baker Disaster (TM), i.e., batting Wee Willy Taveras (.270 OBP) and Alex Gonzalez (.256 OBP) 1-2 in the order. It’s so frustrating. Again today, they were 0-9 and struck out three times. I just can’t believe that Dusty is so dense that he can’t realize what a terrible idea this has been.
–Matt Maloney’s worst outing of his big league career. He went 5.2 innings and gave up 6 runs on six hits, striking out 5 while walking two. I still like Maloney, but today wasn’t good. Of course, he could have thrown a no-hitter today and wouldn’t have gotten a win.
ETC.
–Hurry back, Edinson Volquez.
–Can you believe this quote by Dusty?
“It’s the best lineup I can come up with.”
–Chris Dickerson: 1 hit in the 7th inning. Willy Taveras: 1 hit in the entire month of June.
–Long day of work today, thus the delayed recap. Please forgive me.
*This Offense Stinks
*sigh*
I look forward to Edinson as well but unless he can hit I’m ot sure it will make much difference.
I don’t get the Votto thing either. Play one game and be off for the All Star break.
Maybe Hanigan should bat lead-off. At least if Dusty’s not going to play Dickerson.
This is really more maddening than CraPatterson b/c there weren’t many other options last year. But now? Dickerson is just sitting there and he’s better than Taveras in every aspect of the game except maybe base stealing.
Well, anyway. This game was lost for a lot reasons besides Taveras. Blah.
I think it was interesting when I heard this fact on the radio. Wily Taveras in the last 3 weeks is 3 for his last 91
Dusty’s logic in playing these guys (especially Taveras) is to help their bats get hot. Meanwhile, a hot bat like Dickerson’s cools off from lack of use. Who knows whether Janish’s bat is hot or cold since he has only been to bat six times this month. He’s likely seen more pitches in those six at bats than either Taveras or Gonzalez this month.
It is being reported by Mark Sheldon that when Dusty Baker was asked tonight if it was time to move Taveras out of the lead off spot he replied:
“I don’t know,” he responded. “You’re asking me questions I really haven’t had time to think of. The problem is, I had Jerry leading off and he wasn’t getting on either.”
http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/06/what_to_do_with_taveras.html
If that quote from Dusty isn’t a joke then I just gave up on him. And the Reds management should, too.
Taveras is ONE FOR FORTY FIVE. He was ZERO FOR THIRTY TWO. If at no point in the past month, Dusty hasn’t considered who else to hit in the lead off, then he should be fired tonight.
Taveras has gotten on base ONE TIME THIS MONTH. Taveras has not draw a SINGLE walk in 70 plate appearances. Taveras has 9 RBI and only two in the past month.
Dusty hasn’t had time to think about those things? Seriously, if he said (and meant) that, he should pack his bags without being told.
He’s worried about the fans booing Willy, well most of the boo’s at GABP are directed at his incompetent lineups, which are far more willful than Taveras’ bad baseball.
Play Dickerson or Stubbs in CF. Try Dickerson in the lead off spot, not Hairston, who has barely been better than Taveras or Gonzalez (who is also atrocious, but gets the second most AB on the team).
Much is made of Dickerson’s failures against LHP, and they are severe. His OBP vs. LHP is .286 – Taveras’ OBP is .270 against all pitchers. Dickerson’s batting average is .091 vs. LHP – well Taveras has been hitting .090 against all pitchers for the past 90 AB (one month).
Who could hit lead off? Literally ANYONE on the team would do a significantly better job that Taveras. Anyone at all. Even Daniel Herrera drew a walk the other night.
Seriously, playing Micah Owings in CF and having him lead off would be much better. Playing Paul Janish at SS and having him lead off, same thing. Ryan Hanigan has an OBP near .400.
The fact that we are even posing and seriously considering the question: if not WT, who else could possibly lead off? means we have adopted Dusty’s old-fashioned framework for what makes a capable lead off hitter.
Dusty’s frame: “Gee when I played with the Dodgers we always had the CF and the fastest guy leading off.”
I don’t for a minute think Dusty hasn’t been thinking about this, which means he was just ducking the question by lying to the reporter. I guess the reporters are used to that. But we fans need to realize, no matter how much we’ve supported Dusty in the past (and I have) his lineups have destroyed the Reds chances for being in first place right now.
Tonight in Kansas Luke “Cy” Hochevar started for the Royals. You remember him, the pitcher who befuddled the Reds impatient hitters – he threw only 80 pitches that night to Dusty Baker’s most excellent lineup.
Well, tonight, facing the light-hitting Arizona D-Backs, he only threw 94 pitches. Of course he only pitched 4 innings, gave up 9 hits, 6 earned runs and saw his ERA climb to 6.61.
Sure, the Reds don’t need to make any moves. Things are just fine the way they are now.
Unfortunately, I am driving down to Cincinnati with a couple Sox fans to see the games this weekend. Can we take up a collection to help pay Dusty’s salary if the team will dump him now?
Dusty had other stupid and annoying quotes in the Sheldon article:
“Hanson was wild in the early going and loaded the bases with one out via two walks
and a hit batter…. Taveras chased a bad pitch for an inning-ending strike three.
‘We didn’t have the right people up there,’ Baker said.
‘… Willy was up next and he hasn’t been swinging very well.’
Another question was whether it was time to shake up the struggling lineup.
“I don’t think I can shake it up any more than I’ve been shaking it up,” Baker said.
“I’ve been shaking it up all year long. When you shake it, most of the times you get
the same results.”
No mention of Dickerson at all.
Going by the article, Dickerson wasn’t mentioned by the interviewers either.
I usually like the Thursday afternoon games, but, fortunately, I wasn’t able to listen to this one. I’m no baseball historian and I have certainly been frustrated with past managers, but this has got to take the cake. At what point does a higher up tell Dusty to wake up?
If we can split the next 6 games with the White Sox and Toronto, and EE and Votto are back for the Indians series, we’ll have accomplished the goal of staying above .500 without them.
But splitting the next 6 is a tall order. Friday nite’s game against Contreras is critical, as after that we face two lefties, including Buerhle.
If DB has Taveras leading off (or anywhere in the starting lineup, for that matter) on Friday nite, then we’ve reached a point of irrationality that is disturbing, to put it mildly.
Nick, Good question. WJ should have talked with Dusty by now. But don’t forget, Taveras was his big off-season move. He too regards Taveras as “our center fielder.”
Nice to see that Votto’s MiL rehab started tonite. No hits in 3 appearances, but did draw a walk in his first AB.
He left the game after 6 innings, I assume that was according to plan.
Good point about Jocketty, but I think we’ve already reached, as you said, “a point of irrationality that is disturbing.” That statement sums up exactly how I feel.
‘We didn’t have the right people up there,’ Baker said. ‘… Willy was up next and he hasn’t been swinging very well.’
Duh, Dusty!
How much of this is “Dusty-love” with Taveras (and Gonzalez) or a burr up his ass with Dickerson (and Janish) about who knows what?
I would go with it’s more of the later.
I, more so than most, have been pretty patient with Dusty, but at this point the problem is so obvious Stevie Wonder could see it. I don’t believe that Dickerson is the permanent answer, but it is insanity he hasn’t been getting more starts than this, with Point Zero struggling so mightily. And when Wee Willy does play, you just can’t have him leading off right now. It may even be worse that AGon is batting second. I actually have no problem with Dusty sticking w AGon at short, but under no circunstance should he be batting 2nd. With that said, Janish should be getting some spot starts, yet, unexplicably, he is not.
For the absolute heck of it, I took Dusty’s starting nine (I even included the pitcher) and put them in a hat and chose a random lineup. This is what I came up with:
Phillips
Hannigan
Bruce
Hernandez
Gonzo
Taveras
Owings (I went with him)
Hairston
Nix/Gomes
Ridiculous, yes. Any worse than Dusty’s, no.
In June they’ve scored 60 runs in 19 games, which is an average of 3.16 R/G.
I used the lineup tool at baseballmusings.com, which estimates run production given a certain lineup. The Baker lineup yesterday, using their season to-date-totals projects to 3.736 R/G or 605 R per season. Still pretty pathetic:
Taveras
Gonazalez
Phillips
Nix
Hanigan
Bruce
Rosales
JHJ
and the pitcher’s spot (I entered 200obp/200slg)
I made a few changes:
Dickerson
Hanigan
Phillips
Nix
Gomes (at 1B)
Bruce
Hairston
Gonzalez
Pitcher
Projects to 4.512 R/G or 731 for the season.
If you took the 9 I have in the 2nd lineup, batted the pitcher 1st and A-gon 2nd, the projection still expects more runs (3.861 per game) than the lineup that Baker puts out (3.736).
They face three lefties in their next 5 games + will likely face lefties in Cleveland. If Baker would just nudge halfway during this stretch of games and platoon Dickerson and Taveras. Let Taveras have this one last shot vs. LHP only. Start Dickerson vs. the few right handers that they will see. If Taveras doesn’t get going, then CF is for Dickerson.
My ideal healthy lineup:
Dickerson
Hanigan
Votto (368obp/548slg)
Phillips
Nix/Gomes platoon
Edwin (at career average)
Bruce
Janish (or any SS producing at Janish’s ytd OPS)
Pitcher
4.823 R/G or 781 over a full season.
Is it even worthwhile to debate this stuff anymore? I feel like we had this exact conversation all last summer. But as per14 said, at least last year there was no obvious alternative.
I agree with Chris, there is nothing more to be said about how obviously stupid this is.
My big question now is why? Dusty and Walt did not get where they are being entirely stupid (no matter how much it seems that must be the case at times like this). What is goint on, and what does it say about the organization?
My thought in another thread was that Dusty’s history as a player works against him in situations like this. He is loyal to a fault, and wants to give “his” guys (and what makes a guy one of “his” is another question) every chance to work out of a slump. If anyone dares criticize him, even gets even more stubborn about it. That loyalty may work well to protect quality players when they hit a bad stretch, but it is disastrous when sticking with guys who just do not have the talent.
As for Walt, I have not followed his career that closely, but my sense is that he does not want to interfere with his manager. That may have worked with Tony in St. Louis, but this is a situation that screams for a call to the office and gentle suggestion to Dusty he might want to reconsider playing Dickerson and reordering the lineup. We all need a reality check from time to time, and Dusty clearly is at that point with this lineup.
If it were me, I would tell Willie his hamstring is bothering him, put him on the DL and then send him on a rehab assignment to see if he can get it back together. Give Janish some more time to see if he can learn to hit, and at least bat Gonzo 8th when he is the linup.
Dusty is probably better than every single one of us at the human side of managing pro baseball players — dealing w/ their egos, dealing w/ the media, etc.
Dusty is also worse than a decent Strat-O-Matic player at what seems to me to be the easy part — picking players and making a lineup.
It really boggles my mind.
Who’s debating? At this point, we’re just piling on!
Does anyone know the length of Taveras’ contract? One -two – three years?
2 years. I think he’s owed 2.25 this year and $4M next year.
Just wanted to point out that there is a major part of the job of being a MLB manager — the part that we don’t see much of, and the part that we all would probably suck at — that I think Dusty is very good at.
It just baffles me that it’s what seems like the easiest part that he is really bad at — the part that you actually could learn by getting good at baseball simulation board games.
So the team’s got 6.5 million wrapped up in Taveras…Geez…!
and I’m guessing they could have had him for a LOT less
well MAYBE, just MAYBE Baker now has had the “time” to think about the Taveras/Gonzo issue
Taveras is not in tonights starting lineup and Gonzo is batting 6th
looks like Dusty’s hand has been forced and he still doesn’t understand why he’s doing what’s he’s doing being Hanigan is still batting 8th
interesting thought, Hanigan’s OPS is the 5th highest on the Reds
Behind only Votto, Gomes, Nix and Phillips.
His OBP is 2nd behind only Votto
but also his history of getting on base in the minors and getting on base last year in the majors.
The history of a handful of our other hitters, like Gonzo is that they often don’t produce.
Yet he can’t get out of the 8th spot