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	<title>Comments on: On Dusty Baker</title>
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	<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/</link>
	<description>A Cincinnati Reds Blog &#124; Dishing out hot, creamy bowls of bloggy goodness</description>
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		<title>By: pinson343</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1662173</link>
		<dc:creator>pinson343</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 22:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1662173</guid>
		<description>Cary,  I admire the amount of thought you put into figuring out what Dusty was thinking with that move (33). But if you&#039;re right, then he doesn&#039;t have enough confidence in Micah as a hitter or as a pitcher. 

As I&#039;ve said, I agree with your general point about managers getting second guessed whenever the result doesn&#039;t work, but I can&#039;t support Dusty on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cary,  I admire the amount of thought you put into figuring out what Dusty was thinking with that move (33). But if you&#8217;re right, then he doesn&#8217;t have enough confidence in Micah as a hitter or as a pitcher. </p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve said, I agree with your general point about managers getting second guessed whenever the result doesn&#8217;t work, but I can&#8217;t support Dusty on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1662045</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 21:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1662045</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think you&#039;re giving enough credit, Cary.  I&#039;m sure the WLW callers would complain, and Dusty would have to answer questions from John Fay and Hal McCoy, but I think most of the people who comment around here understand that good decisions sometimes have bad results (and vice versa).  

I don&#039;t think we&#039;re outcome-oriented in our analysis here - I really don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;re giving enough credit, Cary.  I&#8217;m sure the WLW callers would complain, and Dusty would have to answer questions from John Fay and Hal McCoy, but I think most of the people who comment around here understand that good decisions sometimes have bad results (and vice versa).  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re outcome-oriented in our analysis here &#8211; I really don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Cary Loughman</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1662012</link>
		<dc:creator>Cary Loughman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 21:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1662012</guid>
		<description>Chris,

I am pretty sure if Dusty had made the move folks are suggesting on here and Cordero gives up the tying run (very plausible scenario, not because he&#039;s a bad pitcher, but because closers give up runs just like anyone else, I don&#039;t care how &quot;nails&quot; they are), he would be raked over the coals for burning Owings and needing to consider putting Cueto out there to cover some innings, or give up the game with Janish.  I would be ok with letting Owings try to get the save, also, but that gets back to &quot;its dumb because it isn&#039;t what I would do&quot; type of thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>I am pretty sure if Dusty had made the move folks are suggesting on here and Cordero gives up the tying run (very plausible scenario, not because he&#8217;s a bad pitcher, but because closers give up runs just like anyone else, I don&#8217;t care how &#8220;nails&#8221; they are), he would be raked over the coals for burning Owings and needing to consider putting Cueto out there to cover some innings, or give up the game with Janish.  I would be ok with letting Owings try to get the save, also, but that gets back to &#8220;its dumb because it isn&#8217;t what I would do&#8221; type of thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Price</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661986</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Price</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 20:18:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661986</guid>
		<description>And one of those roles is to bring the closer into a &quot;clean&quot; inning, that is, to start the inning with no one on base.

Which is why I think Cordero should be shipped out the same time as Gonzalez.

For all the people that complained about other players on the Reds they feel made too much (see any list of stars), paying a closer $12 million (an average closer at that) is lunacy.  I mean everything has to be perfect to earn that $12 million for sixty innings a year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And one of those roles is to bring the closer into a &#8220;clean&#8221; inning, that is, to start the inning with no one on base.</p>
<p>Which is why I think Cordero should be shipped out the same time as Gonzalez.</p>
<p>For all the people that complained about other players on the Reds they feel made too much (see any list of stars), paying a closer $12 million (an average closer at that) is lunacy.  I mean everything has to be perfect to earn that $12 million for sixty innings a year.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661943</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 18:30:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661943</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s poor thinking, times two.  If Cordero is so much better than Owings that he HAS to protect the lead, then you don&#039;t have to worry about having someone to pitch behind him if he blows the lead.  If Cordero&#039;s NOT htat much better than Owings, then just let Owings get the save after he knocks in the go-ahead run.  

Dusty, like most managers, is too locked in to the concept of bullpen &quot;roles.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s poor thinking, times two.  If Cordero is so much better than Owings that he HAS to protect the lead, then you don&#8217;t have to worry about having someone to pitch behind him if he blows the lead.  If Cordero&#8217;s NOT htat much better than Owings, then just let Owings get the save after he knocks in the go-ahead run.  </p>
<p>Dusty, like most managers, is too locked in to the concept of bullpen &#8220;roles.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: GregD</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661936</link>
		<dc:creator>GregD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 18:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661936</guid>
		<description>If he didn&#039;t PH Owings because Owings *might* take a lead that Cordero *might* blow, then that is the wrong reason to not use your best pitch hitter in extra innings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If he didn&#8217;t PH Owings because Owings *might* take a lead that Cordero *might* blow, then that is the wrong reason to not use your best pitch hitter in extra innings.</p>
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		<title>By: preach</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661932</link>
		<dc:creator>preach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 18:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661932</guid>
		<description>Yes, and with McDonald pinch hitting we didn&#039;t have to worry about the Reds taking the lead, so the plan is safe. 

Use Owings to pinch hit, pray for a lead. If lead happens let Owings start the bottom of the inning leaving CoCo warm and see what happens. If Owings doesn&#039;t get a hit nothing is lost and you still have McDonald on the bench for double switching/pinch running later. In extra innings you have to modify when you use your closer and what that role is. 

Or, heck: let&#039;s use your logic and hit Hannigan or Janish, or Dick Pole, or anyone but McDonald.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, and with McDonald pinch hitting we didn&#8217;t have to worry about the Reds taking the lead, so the plan is safe. </p>
<p>Use Owings to pinch hit, pray for a lead. If lead happens let Owings start the bottom of the inning leaving CoCo warm and see what happens. If Owings doesn&#8217;t get a hit nothing is lost and you still have McDonald on the bench for double switching/pinch running later. In extra innings you have to modify when you use your closer and what that role is. </p>
<p>Or, heck: let&#8217;s use your logic and hit Hannigan or Janish, or Dick Pole, or anyone but McDonald.</p>
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		<title>By: Cary Loughman</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661922</link>
		<dc:creator>Cary Loughman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 18:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661922</guid>
		<description>The Owings move was the right one knowing that he would want Cordero pitching if they went ahead.  If he had pinch hit Owings and the Reds took the lead, then Dusty would want Cordero to close (not saying I agree, but he&#039;s the &quot;closer,&quot; so he has to pitch there) and Owings is burned as a PH.  Then, he is left with Coco, who might have two innings in him.  If he blows the lead, then he is out of pitchers.  Harang, Volquez and Cueto were rightly not available.  

I had to think through that as well, but Dusty made the right move there knowing he wanted Cordero to pitch if the Reds took the lead.  He would have had to be ok with Owings pitching the bottom of the inning if they took the lead, which he obviously didn&#039;t since he hit McDonald.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Owings move was the right one knowing that he would want Cordero pitching if they went ahead.  If he had pinch hit Owings and the Reds took the lead, then Dusty would want Cordero to close (not saying I agree, but he&#8217;s the &#8220;closer,&#8221; so he has to pitch there) and Owings is burned as a PH.  Then, he is left with Coco, who might have two innings in him.  If he blows the lead, then he is out of pitchers.  Harang, Volquez and Cueto were rightly not available.  </p>
<p>I had to think through that as well, but Dusty made the right move there knowing he wanted Cordero to pitch if the Reds took the lead.  He would have had to be ok with Owings pitching the bottom of the inning if they took the lead, which he obviously didn&#8217;t since he hit McDonald.</p>
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		<title>By: GregD</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661910</link>
		<dc:creator>GregD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 17:29:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661910</guid>
		<description>Wasn&#039;t Owings warming up in the bullpen when McDonald PH?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t Owings warming up in the bullpen when McDonald PH?</p>
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		<title>By: preach</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661889</link>
		<dc:creator>preach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 16:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661889</guid>
		<description>Give Pinson a pony. It was a dumb move regardless of the outcome. Burning two players instead of one in an extra inning affair, and going with the inferior bat to boot. I believe it was hoped that McDonald could actually do something to justify his existence. That was the priority over winning the game. If your personal agendas interfere with game management, then I have a problem with it. I think that goes beyond playing &#039;monday morning quarterback&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give Pinson a pony. It was a dumb move regardless of the outcome. Burning two players instead of one in an extra inning affair, and going with the inferior bat to boot. I believe it was hoped that McDonald could actually do something to justify his existence. That was the priority over winning the game. If your personal agendas interfere with game management, then I have a problem with it. I think that goes beyond playing &#8216;monday morning quarterback&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661881</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 16:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661881</guid>
		<description>:?:   We had the manager for this young team in Pete MacKannin but Castellini wanted a big name; Sparky Anderson was an unknown also when he took over in 1970. Baker is not the fit for this young Reds team; I see too much Dodger blue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> <img src='http://redlegnation.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_question.gif' alt=':?:' class='wp-smiley' />   We had the manager for this young team in Pete MacKannin but Castellini wanted a big name; Sparky Anderson was an unknown also when he took over in 1970. Baker is not the fit for this young Reds team; I see too much Dodger blue.</p>
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		<title>By: pinson343</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661876</link>
		<dc:creator>pinson343</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 16:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661876</guid>
		<description>Cary, I have the same definition of dumb. When I don&#039;t like a manager&#039;s in-game move and it turns out badly, as I expected, I think the manager is an idiot. But when the move works I&#039;ll feel like he&#039;s a pro with a lot more pertinent info than me, and will admire his confidence in his palyers.

Just the same, using McDonald instead of Owings to PH on Saturday nite flabbergasted me. Not only is Owings a better hitter (and a much better PH), the move wasted a player in a marathon game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cary, I have the same definition of dumb. When I don&#8217;t like a manager&#8217;s in-game move and it turns out badly, as I expected, I think the manager is an idiot. But when the move works I&#8217;ll feel like he&#8217;s a pro with a lot more pertinent info than me, and will admire his confidence in his palyers.</p>
<p>Just the same, using McDonald instead of Owings to PH on Saturday nite flabbergasted me. Not only is Owings a better hitter (and a much better PH), the move wasted a player in a marathon game.</p>
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		<title>By: Cary Loughman</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661765</link>
		<dc:creator>Cary Loughman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 13:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661765</guid>
		<description>BTW, Dusty did one of those &quot;dumb things&quot; just last Friday when he didn&#039;t pinch hit for Harang.  I consider it to be a dumb thing because it isn&#039;t what I would have done and the result was bad.  Which, while I know everyone is much more objective and fair than me, is a very subjective way of judging a manager&#039;s moves or non/moves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, Dusty did one of those &#8220;dumb things&#8221; just last Friday when he didn&#8217;t pinch hit for Harang.  I consider it to be a dumb thing because it isn&#8217;t what I would have done and the result was bad.  Which, while I know everyone is much more objective and fair than me, is a very subjective way of judging a manager&#8217;s moves or non/moves.</p>
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		<title>By: Cary Loughman</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661761</link>
		<dc:creator>Cary Loughman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 13:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661761</guid>
		<description>ALL managers are considered to do &quot;a lot of dumb things&quot; during their tenure.  It is only after a manager has been fired for these &quot;dumb things&quot; that the next guy comes in and does more &quot;dumb things&quot; than the previous guy that you realize that person wasn&#039;t that bad.  

Sparky was not immune from criticism for doing &quot;dumb things.&quot;  And I imagine that Sparky would not have the record that he does and would be criticized for doing lots of &quot;dumb things&quot; if he had to try and win games with the talent of the Reds during this decade.  That is the nature of the beast, whereby baseball decisions are always open to &quot;that is not what I would have done,&quot; so when it turns out bad, the manager does &quot;dumb things.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ALL managers are considered to do &#8220;a lot of dumb things&#8221; during their tenure.  It is only after a manager has been fired for these &#8220;dumb things&#8221; that the next guy comes in and does more &#8220;dumb things&#8221; than the previous guy that you realize that person wasn&#8217;t that bad.  </p>
<p>Sparky was not immune from criticism for doing &#8220;dumb things.&#8221;  And I imagine that Sparky would not have the record that he does and would be criticized for doing lots of &#8220;dumb things&#8221; if he had to try and win games with the talent of the Reds during this decade.  That is the nature of the beast, whereby baseball decisions are always open to &#8220;that is not what I would have done,&#8221; so when it turns out bad, the manager does &#8220;dumb things.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: preach</title>
		<link>http://redlegnation.com/2009/05/18/on-dusty-baker-3/#comment-1661723</link>
		<dc:creator>preach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 13:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://redlegnation.com/?p=6872#comment-1661723</guid>
		<description>...however if uses McDonald to pinch hit when Owings is available and coming into the game anyway I think we should call the printers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;however if uses McDonald to pinch hit when Owings is available and coming into the game anyway I think we should call the printers.</p>
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