Before 1989, Pete Rose had the praise MLB, many fans, and sportswriters covering the Game. Pete Rose WAS the Cincinnati Reds and a top-notch Ambassador to MLB at the time.

The gambling, of course, stopped that, followed by 14 years of lies, and Rose’s “Prison without Bars” – the title of his 2004 book, as well as a prison HE built. Charlie Hustle was, simply put, AWESOME when he got on the field, and did what was needed to Win. Unfortunately, Mr. Rose poisoned himself OFF the field, and after his playing days.

MLB, and the Baseball Hall of Fame (HOF) created the “Pete Rose Rule,” which was designed to keep all former MLB Ballplayers banned from the game OUT of the HOF. They deny this, but even the “holier-than-thou-sportswriters” generally know the fix was on to keep Pete Rose out of the HOF.

That being the case, Pete Rose is the same as he was 20 years ago, or so he seems – Arrogant and led by his Ego. I would love to have seen Mr. Rose become more of a Cal Ripken-Derek Jeter-Henry Aaron-type celebrity…one who won’t create negative publicity. Mr. Rose needs to rise above the level of the “I’m a victim, and I want to manage again” nonsense.

I mean, Come On! Pete LOST the trust to manage ever again (1989) – frankly, he doesn’t deserve a 2nd shot there. I would love to see Rose reinstated back into MLB (before he dies, can’t walk anymore, Etc.), work with Minor Leagers, young players, fans, Etc., but that means letting go of the goals HE ruined.

No matter how much Charlie Hustle complains about the bad treatment, Bud Selig’s ignoring him, Bob Feller and Hank Aaron’s opposition to him being in the HOF, and more…the only person to blame for Pete Rose’s predicament is…PETE ROSE.

1) Pete Rose
2) Adam Dunn
3) Frank Robinson
4) Barry Larkin
5) Ken Griffey, Jr.
6) Danny Graves
7) Bobby Tolan
Joe Nuxhall
9) Hal Chase
10) Eric Milton

I checked our archives and I saw where Cesar Hernandez and Jimmy Anderson were listd, but they weren’t here long enough to really count.

I understand Milton….frankly, I’d compare his signing to that of Willy Taveras, but Taveras hasn’t floundered yet.

Chase you may not know…he was a fantastic first baseman from the 1910’s whom Reds manager Christy Mathewson kicked off the 1918 team for throwing Reds games…I’ll give more information about him in a later story…there’s plenty to read about him if you want to find it

Nuxhall was a fan favorite in the 50’s…then went 1-8 with a 4.42 ERA and the fans booed him incessantly, so bad the Reds traded him away. For all the years he was with the Reds organization, he wasn’t with them for the 1961 championship team and World Series. He came back in the 1962 season.

As for the other guys, they were all stars who wore out their welcomes for various reasons.

Seems like it’s tough being a star in Reds country? We seem to like the Adam Rosaleses of the world…

May be there’s a whole story of hard luck things to write aboutconcering these guys? Like, what made the public turn on them?

Also, none of us should be so naïve as to think Cal Ripken Jr. wouldn’t have used steroids to keep his streak alive.

Some names below: Clemente, Junior, Yount, Gwynn, Jackson, Larkin, Bench…

That seems about right to me. He was a very good player for a long time. Greatest player? No. But very good, with some MVP-caliber seasons sprinkled here and there (‘73 was his best by WAR, which is nice to see).

I’m not a fan of his, but that’s mostly because I think he’s a turd.
-j

That said, I don’t think he should (or will, for that matter) ever be allowed to coach or manage in organized baseball.

Beyond the ‘roids, criminy how many extra homeruns do think Sosa, McGwire and Bonds got by playing games in these newer parks with weakened pitching by two expansions? The NL Central pretty much is all hitters parks, especially after the McGwire fix done to old Busch stadium. Heck Wrigley is probably near the more neutral of the bunch. Could you imagine what guys like Bench, Schmidt, George Foster would have done if they were playing so many games in places like this? Criminy Foster put up 52 in an expansion year playing bunches of games in the Astrodome, Dodger stadium and better pitching? I think that 52 in 77 probably is equivalent to hitting 70 in 98. I think the home run stadiums and 40 pitchers who would have been in AAA or lower in the bigs were probably as big a part of the hitting explosion as anything and probably don’t get as much credit.

The thing I think the ‘roids changed is that you started to see guys like Brady Anderson, Luis Gonzales and others out of nowhere cracking 50+ home runs. There were bunches of others that were one season wonders like that. Maybe the guy didn’t use, as I don’t remember his name coming up in allegations, but I also wonder about guys like Steve Finley who were better at age 37 than 27.

I think the guys out of this ERA that might come out the best are the ones that seemed to have a more normal career arc and suffered through tons of injuries like Junior Griffey, Frank Thomas and Jeff Bagwell. If they were using, it didn’t help them out, as they all seemed to spend lots of games on the DL.

Pete Rose hit for a bit of power in the early 70s, I would not doubt that in the 90s he would have put up some power numbers probably like someone like Nomar at his peak.

That being said, I think Pete Rose is a pretty nuts. It seems from some of the stuff how he was living off the field, that the dude kind of lived at that pedal to the metal life off the field. Rose isn’t the only ball player sadly to get torn up by gambling, but he is the only one stupid enough to get tied into betting on his own sport. Rose has definitely not been his best advocate for getting the ban on the hall lifted, but if anything the steroids era might open a window. I think it would help if some of the vets might come to his defense, kind of like what Vince Lombardi was able to do for Paul Hornung in a similar situation (which didn’t stop him from getting into the NFL hall of fame or getting back into football for that matter), but I think there is a lot of animosity about Rose from guys who hated playing against him.

As a person, he’s deeply flawed but has important redeeming qualities. For one thing, noone tells him how to think or what to say. The Reds took great pains (I’ll tell the story later, for those who don’t know) to stop him (as a rookie) from hanging with his buddies Robby and Vada, because in 1962 “classy” players didn’t do that. He figured out what was going on, and told the entire Reds organization, in effect, to F___ Off !
He does have (some) principles, and will not compromise them for anyone or anything.

There is such a thing as clutch, you could see that when Pete was at bat in a big situation. (Bill James BTW said he’s reconsidering “clutch” in his 60 Minutes interview last week, and sabermetrics has always allowed that there are some clutch hitters, just not many.)

Sabermetrics cannot measure mental impact on the other players of a team – Pete Rose lit a fire under his teammates. There is such a thing as leadership, on the field and in the clubhouse. The current model for clutch and leadersip, Derek Jeter, is way overrated in those areas. Pete was the real deal.

Even at the age of 11, when he was a rookie, I could see this guy was way too into himself and didn’t like him as a person. He’s a pathological liar, etc.

But on the field, along with Bob Gibson, Robby, and his role model Ty Cobb, he’d do anything to win, he hungered to win, and I was so thrilled he was on our side.

Induct the guy into the Hall before he gets much older, please.

I wish I had been able to see him play during the seventies.