Comments on: Brandon Phillips on OBP

By: per14

per14 — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:27:04 +0000

Look, I like BP too but he’s simply not an above-average offensive second basemen. Perhaps in 2007 he was, but I don’t think we have any reason (yet) to believe that wasn’t a career year.

Here’s a link showing that in 2008, of the 16 second baseman who had enough PAs to qualfy for the batting title, BP was 13 out of 16.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting?sort=runsCreatedPer27Outs&split=0&league=mlb&season=2008&seasonType=2&type=sab&ageMin=17&ageMax=51&minpa=0&hand=a&pos=2b&startDate=null&endDate=null

By: Y-City Jim

Y-City Jim — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:15:24 +0000

Right, preach. Whichever it is, Dusty holds onto them dearly.

By: preach

preach — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 02:11:05 +0000

preconceptions, misconceptions…..tomato, to-mato, whatever…

By: Y-City Jim

Y-City Jim — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:11:11 +0000

My pick is: Does he know these stats but discards them b/c they don’t fit with what he already thinks about Brandon?

I get the feeling that Dusty is very big into preconceptions and does not let go of them easily.

By: Dan

Dan — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:33:41 +0000

I have no doubt that Dusty would never do what I’m suggesting.

What I wonder is, what’s his reason?

–Does he think guys do better in a consistent “defined role” as you suggested, preach?

–Does he know these stats but discards them b/c they don’t fit with what he already thinks about Brandon?

–Does he not even know stats like this?

I’d really like to see more open-mindedness and creativity within the Reds. Not just with where to bat Brandon in the lineup, but with a lot of things.

By: preach

preach — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:09:38 +0000

Wow, I didn’t realize his splits were that severe. I think you have a good plan, Dan. Unfortunately I think we are dealing with a mentality that doesn’t want to move guys around in the lineup often. That never did make any sense to me, but being a ‘players manager’ in part means giving your guys a ‘defined role’, sometimes regardless of strengths and weaknesses.

By: Dan

Dan — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:55:40 +0000

Here’s another thing that I bet Dusty doesn’t know (or doesn’t care about):

Phillips vs. RHP’s (career) – .249/.294/.394
Phillips vs. LHP’s (career) – .294/.343/.502

Brandon does mash lefties, and if Dusty wants to bat him cleanup vs. lefties, I’m fine w/ that.

But vs. RHP’s, he’s bad! Really bad.

Patience and OBP aside… in my opinion, Brandon can hit 4th vs. lefties and should bat 7th or possibly 8th vs. righties.

And by the way, the platoon split is not going away with experience. His career OPS gap is .167 (.688 vs. .845). His OPS gap in 2008 was .268 (.676 vs. .944).

By: Y-City Jim

Y-City Jim — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:14:29 +0000

Part of the reason we see BP as the #4 hitter is because this is a crappy offensive club. The other reason is that Dusty refuses to see there are better options in that slot. When he obsesses on crap like splitting the LHed hitters I just wish he would be totally ignorant of stats rather than use them in sweeping generalities.

By: Dan

Dan — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:32:58 +0000

Brandon’s OBP w/ the Reds is about .325, which is still below average.

Yes, Brandon is a good player, even with a .325 OBP. He’s very talented, has good power for an infielder, and is awesome in the field.

But “actively ignorant” is right. This is the one part of his game that actually does hurt the team a bit, and does he want to work on it? Is he even open to the idea that he could improve in this area? No, he says “screw that.” That really annoys me.

Anyway… Edwin is a better hitter than Brandon is already, and this problem would be at least slightly mitigated if Dusty would just bat Brandon 6th or 7th vs. RHP’s.

By: RiverCity Redleg

RiverCity Redleg — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:06:00 +0000

Hitting Stats: Next Stats >> Brandon Phillips

SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
2002 Cleveland Indians 11 31 5 8 3 1 0 4 13 3 6 0 0 .343 .419 .258
2003 Cleveland Indians 112 370 36 77 18 1 6 33 115 14 77 4 5 .242 .311 .208
2004 Cleveland Indians 6 22 1 4 2 0 0 1 6 2 5 0 2 .250 .273 .182
2005 Cleveland Indians 6 9 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 .000 .000 .000
2006 Cincinnati Reds 149 536 65 148 28 1 17 75 229 35 88 25 2 .324 .427 .276
2007 Cincinnati Reds 158 650 107 187 26 6 30 94 315 33 109 32 8 .331 .485 .288
2008 Cincinnati Reds 141 559 80 146 24 7 21 78 247 39 93 23 10 .312 .442 .261

Career Totals 583 2177 295 570 101 16 74 285 925 126 382 84 27 .308 .425 .262

If you were able to sort through this mess, you would see that BP’s career .308 obp is completely due to his godawful years in Cleveland and hasn’t touched that mark once since he’s been in Cincy.
In 2007, he hit .288 w/ .331 obp, & was a 30/30 man.
He had his worst year in Cincy last year and still hit .261/.312 obp, while lowering his K total and taking more walks than his last two years. And was still a 20/20 man. Oh yeah, he won the Gold Glove (which he should have won it in 2007 as well).

By: Matt WI

Matt WI — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 19:05:17 +0000

Very well said RiverCity… if we’re strictly talking about his quote, BP comes off poorly here. However, taking a step back, it’s hard to complain too much about a gold glove second basemen who is also above average at the plate for his position. Who else would we really want? The return of Gookie Dawkins? I think a lot of this is really angst at Dusty and management for putting him in four spot, and BP is going to get the extra scrutiny for it.

By: RiverCity Redleg

RiverCity Redleg — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:51:13 +0000

BP is easily the best defensive 2B in the league. Offensively, he is not a liability. Granted, he is not a 4-hole hitter, but even he admits that. He frustrates me at times with his free-swinging, but overall I am damn glad he is a Red. To say we should trade him is ridiculous. And he is young enough that his approach CAN still change, regardless of this quote.

By: per14

per14 — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:32:19 +0000

Even as a 6th place hitter, a .310 OBP kills your team.

“Actively ignorant” is exactly right. Dusty has the same problem. It’s all about pride and stubborness.

By: preach

preach — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:28:37 +0000

Oh, and if he does swing at pick off throws, perhaps it would be better to drop him to a lower spot in the order. That’s my biggest issue here. I really think we should have pulled a deal for a power hitter and dropped Brandon to 6 and then everything changes.

By: preach

preach — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:26:15 +0000

“Ironically…Dunn contributed more to the team…”

If you are talking offensively, I would agree. If you are talking defensively, I laugh. While our offense isn’t strong enough for me to co-sign with Shane (although it was a funny remark), his point is well taken. With all the talk of our improved ‘up the middle defense’, it really looks like the only above average defender of those involved is Brandon, which ironically was the only one of those fielders who return from last year.