Dunn and Dunner has some fun parsing a recent Reds.com chat with Assistant GM Bob Miller. Miller seems like a great guy, but I agree: the entire chat was one big waste of time.
Contrast that with the townhall meeting the Mariners did where they went into detail on how they evaluated players. If you aren’t going to say anything at all, why do the chat?
ranman1963: How does Homer Bailey fit into the Reds’ future plans with his name being mentioned this past winter at trade talks?
Miller: This is a big Spring Training for Homer. Hopefully he makes the most of his situation and battles for a starting pitching role. He’s only 22 and deserves some patience from us.
Comment: Good to hear that they want to be patient with Bailey.
pixiedixie: What is the current outlook on the five-man rotation?
Miller: Harang, Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto and then one of Owings, Bailey, Maloney, Ramirez, Thompson and Masset.
Comment: Why Masset?
pixiedixie: If the asking price from their agents is low, is there a good chance to get Dunn and Griffey back?
Miller: Probably not.
Comment: “We would bring them back if they agreed to work for free”
jbowens18: Do you think Volquez and Cueto have settled their pitch count so they can go deeper into games?
Miller: I think they will probably always have higher pitch counts than some other types of pitchers, because hitters don’t put the ball in play early in counts with either of them. They both have nasty stuff and are tough to hit, so they go to lots of deep counts.
Comment: WTH! I don’t like the sound of that! On the other hand, outside of the San Diego extra-inning fiasco, I thought Baker’s use of the starters last year was better than many in Redlegnation feared. It goes back to a comment I made over a year ago, where I detailed Baker’s pitcher use and noted that it seemed to be tied to the GM. Low pitch counts with Quinn in SF and High pitch counts under Sabean and Hendry.
When asked how young talent that could make an immediate impact (twice asked), he never mentioned Stubbs.
When asked how he thought the Reds would do, he did say he thought the Reds could contend for the division title or the wild card.
He said Alonso Yonder would probably arrive by 2011.
When asked for specific information, he said he thought the Reds would lead the league in stolen bases.
Great…we’ll “contend” by doing one of the least useful skills of today’s game (it’s not the 70’s).
Concerning the pitch counts of Volquez and Cueto…he says hitters don’t swing early because of the movement of their pitches….translated….they don’t throw strikes early in the count.
I love blogs! Everyone is so knowledgeable and upbeat. It’s awesome to know that any of you could do a better job than Bob Miller responding to questions, or for that matter, assembling a team. Why have D. Baker manage when each of us has such extensive experience in the area.
I’d be glad to infuse some realism. Bloggers do not represent the target audience of MLB. In fact, privately, I imagine most MLB personnel loathe bloggers.
Bob Miller is actually concerned about the casual fan i.e. the people who don’t give a hoot about sabermetrics but comprise the vast majority of the target market. When stadiums are sold out, it isn’t because the 100 or so bloggers in a market buy season tickets. It’s because the average guy is excited about the Reds. Without the casual fan the Reds don’t exist.
Miller did a nice job of addressing his target audience which was none of us. If you don’t see this as anything other than trying to generate excitement and get the casual fan interested in the Reds, then you are missing the big picture. Of course it’s pandering. That’s what PR is.
However, blogging is more or less the new press. I’ve been reading a lot about Abraham Lincoln (I’m from Hodgenville, Ky, his birthplace) and back then there were newspapers printed in every town…more or less the bloggers of the day. Small town papers grew up to be bigger papers, or the writers/editors moved on to bigger things.
Without the press of that day, baseball would not have become the national pastime.
Baseball execs probably do disdain bloggers, newswriters, and especially anyone who questions their job…
However…they knew that was going to happen when they signed on…and, if Miller had been skilled enough, he could have addressed both knowledgeable fans and Joe Fan simultaneously.
May be he’s in training.
May be the Reds need to find the right people. I don’t know Mr. Miller…never heard of him before the interview, so it’s always possible he’s in the development process…just like we all are.
I was quite annoyed at the Dunn and Dunner parsing and my comments were directed there. I was annoyed because a continuing theme amongst bloggers seems to be bashing the Reds’ front office spin. As if they could say – hey Willy T sucks, Hernandez sucks, we are going to win 70 games, but pretty please won’t you buy season tickets?
Any company which promotes, advertises, or has an officer/director address the public, has a message which is calculated, refined, and highlights the positives. I honestly don’t know what some people expected Bob Miller to say. Even if he disagreed with certain moves, is he going to break party line? He’s going to put positive spin on the Reds to gear up excitement.
I think many a blogger should understand the point to a Q & A session like that.
Out of curiosity, do you think that the Reds should spend money which the Reds may not have to get marquee players to increase attendence, or do you think Reds fans should come out in droves no matter who is on the field in order to provide the revenue to afford the marquee players?
There’s so much info available about this and so much wrong with the Reds.
Do a google search on MLB finances…Forbes Magazine has done an annual study.
In 2002, the Reds had a franchise value of $285 million and operating INCOME of $22 million (before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization.
In 2007, the Reds had a franchise value of $307 million….again with an operating income of $22 million.
The value of their team went up 22 million dollars in five years…yes, they have more money than they know what to do with.
And, they prove they don’t know what to do with it with the way they spend their money…successful, uh, “small market” teams, don’t waste it on backup catchers, middle relievers, utility infielders, backup outfielders, and, for heaven’s sake, a $12 million closer on a last place team.
Baseball Prospectus has written ad infinitum on these topics.
What’s really sad…is that the Reds are essentially PAID to lose today…with the luxury tax that’s out there, the Yanks almost fork over millions of dollars to the Reds since they are willing to pay big dollars for past-30 year old better than average regulars to sit on the bench…and the Reds blow the money instead of using it to get better.
ESPN.com is finishing a “battle of the budgets” where their commentors had a budget of $40 million to build a team of 25 players (11 pitchers) and then play games, using Diamond Mind simulation games.
Former Mets GM Steve Phillips, one who used to blow money left and right, was one of the participants.
Now, keeping in mind there were only 4 teams…not 30, and it was an open market….the participants, specifically Phillips, remarked, that they had no idea so much talent was available at such a low price.
There was so much talent that Jay Bruce nor Cueto were selected. Volquez and Votto were chosen…the only two Reds out of 100 players selected. (here’s a sign the Reds need beter young players nor have purchased ‘value” in their talent base)
During the draft, Phillips went to old habits, and spent most of his money in the first few rounds….then made the above comment about how much more talent was available…then lost in the first round.
So…while other teams have been hiring new GMs (I’m amazed at how many names I no longer know), the Reds hired Jocketty, a “proven” commodity from Castellini’s days of past with the Cardinals to bring back speed and “defense” (going back to Castellini’s faulty memory of the BRM and Jocketty’s turf days in St. Louis) to a ballpark built for power…and they bring in a manager who starred in a death valley ballpark full of live pitching arms from the 70s (Dodgers).
The wrong people are running the show…may be they should have mined the Red Sox management staff?
I found the 2008 version (based on the 2007) season…the Reds team value increased another 30 million (yes, increased by 10% and $30 million after another losing) season, but their operating income (profits) dropped 15% from $22 million to $19 million.
$19 million in profit…athe Reds were 16th in income (there were four teams between the Reds 19.3 million and 21 million).
For the record…the “worst” GM in baseball, Jim Bowden, and the Washington Nationals, made the most money…43 million, and the Florida Marlins were second with 35 million.
Well, one could argue that Bowden is the best GM in baseball if the Nationals made more than any other team. At the end of the day, baseball is a business, and the GM a CEO. Does it matter to the owner if the Nationals lost 102 games if he actually made a profit? Maybe such success is short lived if the fans stop going, but that doesn’t seem to be the case does it?
“Bloggers do not represent the target audience of MLB. ”
Bloggers, defined as the folks who setup and operate the websites, are fans. Fans dedicated to sharing information and opinions about their favorite team, using their own time and resources. Hosting a place for other fans of similar interest to congregate and discuss baseball and usually specific baseball teams.
MLB & those MLB teams who do not consider blogs & bloggers part of their target audience are idiots.
It’s an odd board on Baseball Prospectus. I, too, would consider 79-83 a successful season.
I’m surprised they would expect the offense to score that much, and I’m surprised they expect the pitching to rank 10th
However…if you click on the team, the individual stats look pretty much what I would expect (with the exception of the high projection for Hairston, in part-time).
I respect the work BP does…there must be a method to the madness…I’ll say again…the individual projections (including playing time) look like normal expectations…
GregD – By and large how many bloggers are there in Cincinnati (not including sports reporters who maintain blogs)? How many seats does GABP have? Bloggers may be the most avid fans. There’s no doubt about that, but they represent a microscopic portion of the fan base.
In most cases, fanatics are going to attend because they can’t stay away. What about the family of four that holds only a cursory knowledge of Reds baseball? I’m talking about the people that go because it is an event. Those are the people the Reds care about targeting with these public relations Q & A sessions.
The Reds brass could, and should, give a flying fig about the 1500 or so avid Reds fans that spend vast amounts of time analyzing every little move. They should care about the people who don’t talk about the Reds and do everything they can to get those people excited about the Reds. The Reds don’t accomplish that goal by bringing people down with sabermetric analysis. They do it by saying exactly the kinds of things Bob Miller said in the Q & A.
I see it the exact opposite. The avid fans who can’t stay away are bloggers, and those who read the sportsline in the papers daily, call into talk shows, sit bleary eyed at work because of listening to a night game on the west coast, keep scorecards, collect memorabilia, etc.
Look at the Indians: during the 70’s and 80’s you could have set a cannon off in the stadium without the danger of hitting anyone. No one showed up except for the hard core, they types I listed above. Those who love the game. Once they started a winning trend I saw Indian fans come out of the woodwork. It’s once again getting harder to find them. A winning product, not juice from a front office guy, fills up stadiums; but the bloggers will follow a team year round, even if they disagree with moves.
I also think it’s a little unfair to lump everyone with a computer into the category of ’stat-geek’. Most sabermetrics is foreign to me, and frankly I’m fine with that. I watch an awful lot of games and read a lot of scouting reports. Write a few from time to time myself. So I am an educated fan. Am I part of the target audience or not? I should be, don’t you think?
On the thread which counts down the days until pitchers and catchers report, everyone, without fail and regardless of optimism/pessimism regarding this team, was excited.
Perhaps those hard core types I mentioned in the first paragraph are not as plentiful as the ‘average (read “bandwagon”) fan’ and since that is the case we may not have the spending power of them, but it is those hard core guys who will buy jerseys, cards, and yes, even tickets, when the product on the field is less than stellar.
Do I expect Bob Miller to tell it like it is when the team will be fortunate to finish in fourth place (again)? No. But I expect that the promise of “Win and Win Now” that was made not by bloggers, but by team management, be held to. And if it’s not, you will have to excuse me if I express my jaded opinions regarding the team’s moves (a team I love) on a public forum that is available to me. A blog.
PR sessions like this would be a whole lot more successful if we had an exciting product to place on the field. Casual fans will not care about the individual players who can bring excitement. As you say, they are concerned about winning and post season. Actually, I doubt if too many of those fans even know who Bob Miller is.
Just hold to the promises you have already made. It’s the best PR move you can make.
“Reds general manager Walt Jocketty is still patrolling the free agent waters But players he’s looking to land won’t sell many tickets or make big headlines. “I talked to some agents and have gotten some e-mails,” Jocketty said. “We’re talking to some fringe guys who are trying to get into camp.” Jocketty said at this point the Reds are talking only about minor-league contracts with invites to major-league camp. He downplayed the possibility of veteran outfielder Luis Gonzalez being signed. “I talked to his agent,” Jocketty said. “But that was several weeks ago.”
…and Bob Miller doing a Q&A is going to sell tickets? And bloggers shouldn’t express disdain at this? C’mon.
You are kind of making my argument for me, or maybe we are saying the same thing. No matter what happens the team can rely on the avid fan to show up. It’s taken for granted. More emphasis needs to be placed on getting the people who can’t be relied on to show up at the games.
Why would the Reds spend a ton of money and effort trying to get us to buy the product when we are already addicts? The answer is they don’t. Maybe they should out of appreciation, but it’s a business and it would be a waste of resources.
I would argue they need to spend the millions of dollars they have, and spend the millions of dollars they’ve spent unwisely, to get a quality product and get more fans in the stands.
More I think about it, who actually would have read or participated in Miller’s Q and A except for bloggers and avid fans?
Fans come now for their kids, or out of habit. They would get more if they brought a quality product to the field.
“More I think about it, who actually would have read or participated in Miller’s Q and A except for bloggers and avid fans?”
Exactly. The press conference or news release with Castellini, Jocketty, or Baker that gets sound bites at the top of the hour on WLW – you could argue that is the mode of communication to the “casual fan”. An internet chat from the assistant GM?
Why does it have to be either/or? I would expect a message that is targeted to both “avid” and “casual” fans. Are you saying the Reds are intentionally marketing an unsophisticated message to the casual fan and intentionally not talking to the avid fan/blogger?
Even if this was intentionally PR puff only that wasn’t directed to the eyes of bloggers, it’s out there in a public domain on the topic of our favorite team and is fair game for opinion and criticism.
2009 stats: Sarasota 2-1 8 Games 8 Games Started 42.1 IP 4.89 ERA 1.44 WHIP
Carolina 3-2 6 Game 6 Game Started 36 2/3 IP 2.95 ERA 1.09 WHIP
Louisville 2-2 5 Game 5 Game Started 29 IP 2.48 ERA 1.21 WHIP
RN Exclusives!
The Big Board -- In-Depth Reds Organizational Depth Chart (updated 2/23/10)
Salary Chart -- Our chart on the current and future contract status for the Reds roster (updated 2/23/10)
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Contrast that with the townhall meeting the Mariners did where they went into detail on how they evaluated players. If you aren’t going to say anything at all, why do the chat?
ranman1963: How does Homer Bailey fit into the Reds’ future plans with his name being mentioned this past winter at trade talks?
Miller: This is a big Spring Training for Homer. Hopefully he makes the most of his situation and battles for a starting pitching role. He’s only 22 and deserves some patience from us.
Comment: Good to hear that they want to be patient with Bailey.
pixiedixie: What is the current outlook on the five-man rotation?
Miller: Harang, Volquez, Arroyo, Cueto and then one of Owings, Bailey, Maloney, Ramirez, Thompson and Masset.
Comment: Why Masset?
pixiedixie: If the asking price from their agents is low, is there a good chance to get Dunn and Griffey back?
Miller: Probably not.
Comment: “We would bring them back if they agreed to work for free”
jbowens18: Do you think Volquez and Cueto have settled their pitch count so they can go deeper into games?
Miller: I think they will probably always have higher pitch counts than some other types of pitchers, because hitters don’t put the ball in play early in counts with either of them. They both have nasty stuff and are tough to hit, so they go to lots of deep counts.
Comment: WTH! I don’t like the sound of that! On the other hand, outside of the San Diego extra-inning fiasco, I thought Baker’s use of the starters last year was better than many in Redlegnation feared. It goes back to a comment I made over a year ago, where I detailed Baker’s pitcher use and noted that it seemed to be tied to the GM. Low pitch counts with Quinn in SF and High pitch counts under Sabean and Hendry.
OOPS
Comment: “We would bring them back if they agreed to work for free”
I meant to say “We would NOT bring them back if they agreed to work for free.”
That chat was an utter waste of time. Contrast with the blog maintained by Paul DePodesta, Asst. GM of the Padres.
Why not Masset? He’s a long relief guy but extra competition for that 5th spot sounds fine.
Masset was acquired by Walt Jocketty. That’s why he’s being mentioned.
Masset is the type of talent that filled out the Reds rotations in the ‘02-07 era.
Part of Miller’s Asst GM job description must include “distribution of BS.” That, or the guy is a complete idiot.
When asked how young talent that could make an immediate impact (twice asked), he never mentioned Stubbs.
When asked how he thought the Reds would do, he did say he thought the Reds could contend for the division title or the wild card.
He said Alonso Yonder would probably arrive by 2011.
When asked for specific information, he said he thought the Reds would lead the league in stolen bases.
Great…we’ll “contend” by doing one of the least useful skills of today’s game (it’s not the 70’s).
Concerning the pitch counts of Volquez and Cueto…he says hitters don’t swing early because of the movement of their pitches….translated….they don’t throw strikes early in the count.
I love blogs! Everyone is so knowledgeable and upbeat. It’s awesome to know that any of you could do a better job than Bob Miller responding to questions, or for that matter, assembling a team. Why have D. Baker manage when each of us has such extensive experience in the area.
I’d be glad to infuse some realism. Bloggers do not represent the target audience of MLB. In fact, privately, I imagine most MLB personnel loathe bloggers.
Bob Miller is actually concerned about the casual fan i.e. the people who don’t give a hoot about sabermetrics but comprise the vast majority of the target market. When stadiums are sold out, it isn’t because the 100 or so bloggers in a market buy season tickets. It’s because the average guy is excited about the Reds. Without the casual fan the Reds don’t exist.
Miller did a nice job of addressing his target audience which was none of us. If you don’t see this as anything other than trying to generate excitement and get the casual fan interested in the Reds, then you are missing the big picture. Of course it’s pandering. That’s what PR is.
No doubt Miller was addressing Average Joe.
However, blogging is more or less the new press. I’ve been reading a lot about Abraham Lincoln (I’m from Hodgenville, Ky, his birthplace) and back then there were newspapers printed in every town…more or less the bloggers of the day. Small town papers grew up to be bigger papers, or the writers/editors moved on to bigger things.
Without the press of that day, baseball would not have become the national pastime.
Baseball execs probably do disdain bloggers, newswriters, and especially anyone who questions their job…
However…they knew that was going to happen when they signed on…and, if Miller had been skilled enough, he could have addressed both knowledgeable fans and Joe Fan simultaneously.
May be he’s in training.
May be the Reds need to find the right people. I don’t know Mr. Miller…never heard of him before the interview, so it’s always possible he’s in the development process…just like we all are.
Steve,
I was quite annoyed at the Dunn and Dunner parsing and my comments were directed there. I was annoyed because a continuing theme amongst bloggers seems to be bashing the Reds’ front office spin. As if they could say – hey Willy T sucks, Hernandez sucks, we are going to win 70 games, but pretty please won’t you buy season tickets?
Any company which promotes, advertises, or has an officer/director address the public, has a message which is calculated, refined, and highlights the positives. I honestly don’t know what some people expected Bob Miller to say. Even if he disagreed with certain moves, is he going to break party line? He’s going to put positive spin on the Reds to gear up excitement.
I think many a blogger should understand the point to a Q & A session like that.
Out of curiosity, do you think that the Reds should spend money which the Reds may not have to get marquee players to increase attendence, or do you think Reds fans should come out in droves no matter who is on the field in order to provide the revenue to afford the marquee players?
There’s so much info available about this and so much wrong with the Reds.
Do a google search on MLB finances…Forbes Magazine has done an annual study.
In 2002, the Reds had a franchise value of $285 million and operating INCOME of $22 million (before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization.
In 2007, the Reds had a franchise value of $307 million….again with an operating income of $22 million.
The value of their team went up 22 million dollars in five years…yes, they have more money than they know what to do with.
And, they prove they don’t know what to do with it with the way they spend their money…successful, uh, “small market” teams, don’t waste it on backup catchers, middle relievers, utility infielders, backup outfielders, and, for heaven’s sake, a $12 million closer on a last place team.
Baseball Prospectus has written ad infinitum on these topics.
What’s really sad…is that the Reds are essentially PAID to lose today…with the luxury tax that’s out there, the Yanks almost fork over millions of dollars to the Reds since they are willing to pay big dollars for past-30 year old better than average regulars to sit on the bench…and the Reds blow the money instead of using it to get better.
ESPN.com is finishing a “battle of the budgets” where their commentors had a budget of $40 million to build a team of 25 players (11 pitchers) and then play games, using Diamond Mind simulation games.
Former Mets GM Steve Phillips, one who used to blow money left and right, was one of the participants.
Now, keeping in mind there were only 4 teams…not 30, and it was an open market….the participants, specifically Phillips, remarked, that they had no idea so much talent was available at such a low price.
There was so much talent that Jay Bruce nor Cueto were selected. Volquez and Votto were chosen…the only two Reds out of 100 players selected. (here’s a sign the Reds need beter young players nor have purchased ‘value” in their talent base)
During the draft, Phillips went to old habits, and spent most of his money in the first few rounds….then made the above comment about how much more talent was available…then lost in the first round.
So…while other teams have been hiring new GMs (I’m amazed at how many names I no longer know), the Reds hired Jocketty, a “proven” commodity from Castellini’s days of past with the Cardinals to bring back speed and “defense” (going back to Castellini’s faulty memory of the BRM and Jocketty’s turf days in St. Louis) to a ballpark built for power…and they bring in a manager who starred in a death valley ballpark full of live pitching arms from the 70s (Dodgers).
The wrong people are running the show…may be they should have mined the Red Sox management staff?
I found the 2008 version (based on the 2007) season…the Reds team value increased another 30 million (yes, increased by 10% and $30 million after another losing) season, but their operating income (profits) dropped 15% from $22 million to $19 million.
$19 million in profit…athe Reds were 16th in income (there were four teams between the Reds 19.3 million and 21 million).
For the record…the “worst” GM in baseball, Jim Bowden, and the Washington Nationals, made the most money…43 million, and the Florida Marlins were second with 35 million.
Well, one could argue that Bowden is the best GM in baseball if the Nationals made more than any other team. At the end of the day, baseball is a business, and the GM a CEO. Does it matter to the owner if the Nationals lost 102 games if he actually made a profit? Maybe such success is short lived if the fans stop going, but that doesn’t seem to be the case does it?
By the way… Baseball Prospectus put out its projected 2009 standings.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/fantasy/dc/index.php?sessionstatus=notloggedin
Reds are projected to finish 79-83 as currently constructed, which I would consider success. Wildcard is projected to win 88 games.
I would consider 79-83 a smashing success, as well.
I don’t see the Reds scoring 779 runs this year.
“Bloggers do not represent the target audience of MLB. ”
Bloggers, defined as the folks who setup and operate the websites, are fans. Fans dedicated to sharing information and opinions about their favorite team, using their own time and resources. Hosting a place for other fans of similar interest to congregate and discuss baseball and usually specific baseball teams.
MLB & those MLB teams who do not consider blogs & bloggers part of their target audience are idiots.
It’s an odd board on Baseball Prospectus. I, too, would consider 79-83 a successful season.
I’m surprised they would expect the offense to score that much, and I’m surprised they expect the pitching to rank 10th
However…if you click on the team, the individual stats look pretty much what I would expect (with the exception of the high projection for Hairston, in part-time).
I respect the work BP does…there must be a method to the madness…I’ll say again…the individual projections (including playing time) look like normal expectations…
GregD – By and large how many bloggers are there in Cincinnati (not including sports reporters who maintain blogs)? How many seats does GABP have? Bloggers may be the most avid fans. There’s no doubt about that, but they represent a microscopic portion of the fan base.
In most cases, fanatics are going to attend because they can’t stay away. What about the family of four that holds only a cursory knowledge of Reds baseball? I’m talking about the people that go because it is an event. Those are the people the Reds care about targeting with these public relations Q & A sessions.
The Reds brass could, and should, give a flying fig about the 1500 or so avid Reds fans that spend vast amounts of time analyzing every little move. They should care about the people who don’t talk about the Reds and do everything they can to get those people excited about the Reds. The Reds don’t accomplish that goal by bringing people down with sabermetric analysis. They do it by saying exactly the kinds of things Bob Miller said in the Q & A.
David:
I see it the exact opposite. The avid fans who can’t stay away are bloggers, and those who read the sportsline in the papers daily, call into talk shows, sit bleary eyed at work because of listening to a night game on the west coast, keep scorecards, collect memorabilia, etc.
Look at the Indians: during the 70’s and 80’s you could have set a cannon off in the stadium without the danger of hitting anyone. No one showed up except for the hard core, they types I listed above. Those who love the game. Once they started a winning trend I saw Indian fans come out of the woodwork. It’s once again getting harder to find them. A winning product, not juice from a front office guy, fills up stadiums; but the bloggers will follow a team year round, even if they disagree with moves.
I also think it’s a little unfair to lump everyone with a computer into the category of ’stat-geek’. Most sabermetrics is foreign to me, and frankly I’m fine with that. I watch an awful lot of games and read a lot of scouting reports. Write a few from time to time myself. So I am an educated fan. Am I part of the target audience or not? I should be, don’t you think?
On the thread which counts down the days until pitchers and catchers report, everyone, without fail and regardless of optimism/pessimism regarding this team, was excited.
Perhaps those hard core types I mentioned in the first paragraph are not as plentiful as the ‘average (read “bandwagon”) fan’ and since that is the case we may not have the spending power of them, but it is those hard core guys who will buy jerseys, cards, and yes, even tickets, when the product on the field is less than stellar.
Do I expect Bob Miller to tell it like it is when the team will be fortunate to finish in fourth place (again)? No. But I expect that the promise of “Win and Win Now” that was made not by bloggers, but by team management, be held to. And if it’s not, you will have to excuse me if I express my jaded opinions regarding the team’s moves (a team I love) on a public forum that is available to me. A blog.
PR sessions like this would be a whole lot more successful if we had an exciting product to place on the field. Casual fans will not care about the individual players who can bring excitement. As you say, they are concerned about winning and post season. Actually, I doubt if too many of those fans even know who Bob Miller is.
Just hold to the promises you have already made. It’s the best PR move you can make.
follow up:
Cincinnati Enquirer, January 31
“Reds general manager Walt Jocketty is still patrolling the free agent waters But players he’s looking to land won’t sell many tickets or make big headlines. “I talked to some agents and have gotten some e-mails,” Jocketty said. “We’re talking to some fringe guys who are trying to get into camp.” Jocketty said at this point the Reds are talking only about minor-league contracts with invites to major-league camp. He downplayed the possibility of veteran outfielder Luis Gonzalez being signed. “I talked to his agent,” Jocketty said. “But that was several weeks ago.”
…and Bob Miller doing a Q&A is going to sell tickets? And bloggers shouldn’t express disdain at this? C’mon.
Preach,
You are kind of making my argument for me, or maybe we are saying the same thing. No matter what happens the team can rely on the avid fan to show up. It’s taken for granted. More emphasis needs to be placed on getting the people who can’t be relied on to show up at the games.
Why would the Reds spend a ton of money and effort trying to get us to buy the product when we are already addicts? The answer is they don’t. Maybe they should out of appreciation, but it’s a business and it would be a waste of resources.
I would argue they need to spend the millions of dollars they have, and spend the millions of dollars they’ve spent unwisely, to get a quality product and get more fans in the stands.
More I think about it, who actually would have read or participated in Miller’s Q and A except for bloggers and avid fans?
Fans come now for their kids, or out of habit. They would get more if they brought a quality product to the field.
“More I think about it, who actually would have read or participated in Miller’s Q and A except for bloggers and avid fans?”
Exactly. The press conference or news release with Castellini, Jocketty, or Baker that gets sound bites at the top of the hour on WLW – you could argue that is the mode of communication to the “casual fan”. An internet chat from the assistant GM?
Why does it have to be either/or? I would expect a message that is targeted to both “avid” and “casual” fans. Are you saying the Reds are intentionally marketing an unsophisticated message to the casual fan and intentionally not talking to the avid fan/blogger?
Even if this was intentionally PR puff only that wasn’t directed to the eyes of bloggers, it’s out there in a public domain on the topic of our favorite team and is fair game for opinion and criticism.