Comments on: Game Thread: Aaron Harang Edition http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/ A Cincinnati Reds Blog | Dishing out hot, creamy bowls of bloggy goodness Sun, 21 Mar 2010 22:58:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: pete http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1185353 pete Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:45:45 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1185353 Greg, that is considered 2 1/3 innings. You are correct however, that the ERA is over 4. The numbers I ran were before his last 2 starts. My bad. Greg, that is considered 2 1/3 innings. You are correct however, that the ERA is over 4. The numbers I ran were before his last 2 starts. My bad.

]]> By: GregD http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184935 GregD Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:05:20 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184935 PS - I'm not arguing that Harang was better than Arroyo. I'm just pointing out that "15-game winner" is not all that it's cracked up to be. Harang only won 6 games, but had similar numbers, better quality start percentage, and terrible run support. Remember 2002? Jimmy Haynes was 15-10. The year before the Reds signed Eric Milton, he was 14-6 with the Phillies. PS – I’m not arguing that Harang was better than Arroyo. I’m just pointing out that “15-game winner” is not all that it’s cracked up to be.

Harang only won 6 games, but had similar numbers, better quality start percentage, and terrible run support.

Remember 2002?
Jimmy Haynes was 15-10.

The year before the Reds signed Eric Milton, he was 14-6 with the Phillies.

]]> By: GregD http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184926 GregD Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:50:55 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184926 Arroyo's ERA minus worst 3 innings 4.03 Harang's ERA minus worst 3 innings 4.17 And Harang always completed his "bad innings" and went out to start the next inning. Arroyo’s ERA minus worst 3 innings
4.03

Harang’s ERA minus worst 3 innings
4.17

And Harang always completed his “bad innings” and went out to start the next inning.

]]> By: GregD http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184922 GregD Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:47:04 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184922 Which innings are you subtracting and can I also do the same for Aaron Harang (to compare?) For Arroyo: There was the 2nd inning vs. Atlanta - gave up 7 runs and only 1 out, was pulled early. There was the 1st inning vs. Toronto - gave up 6 runs in a complete inning There was the 2nd inning vs. Toronto - gave up 4 runs and recorded 0 outs, was pulled early. Even if I subtract all 3 of those innings (and the respective # of innings pitched), I get an ERA over 4. Which innings are you subtracting and can I also do the same for Aaron Harang (to compare?)

For Arroyo:
There was the 2nd inning vs. Atlanta – gave up 7 runs and only 1 out, was pulled early.
There was the 1st inning vs. Toronto – gave up 6 runs in a complete inning
There was the 2nd inning vs. Toronto – gave up 4 runs and recorded 0 outs, was pulled early.

Even if I subtract all 3 of those innings (and the respective # of innings pitched), I get an ERA over 4.

]]> By: pete http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184902 pete Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:16:22 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184902 Yes. Take out 2 bad innings and his ERA was under 4. Yes. Take out 2 bad innings and his ERA was under 4.

]]> By: GregD http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184871 GregD Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:18:57 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184871 Do you think Arroyo (15-11) was that much better than Harang (6-17) this year? Do you think Arroyo (15-11) was that much better than Harang (6-17) this year?

]]> By: Evarmstrong http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184819 Evarmstrong Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:50:14 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184819 15-11, he finished the season at 15-11, which I will take from my number 3 guy anytime. You have Harrang, Edison, Bronson, Johnny C and Ownings, a pretty good 5 man rotation. 9 million for Bronson is chump change to what other pitchers make. 15-11, he finished the season at 15-11, which I will take from my number 3 guy anytime. You have Harrang, Edison, Bronson, Johnny C and Ownings, a pretty good 5 man rotation. 9 million for Bronson is chump change to what other pitchers make.

]]> By: GregD http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184730 GregD Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:25:12 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184730 Arroyo is streakier and more prone to slumps than Adam Dunn. An ERA of almost 7.00 in April. Over 8.00 in June. Last year he hit a stretch of 12 starts covering all of May & June going 2-7 with a 5.88 ERA. Everyone likes to think of him as the 2006 version. He's never pitched like that over a full season before in his career. And even in that magical (for him) season, he had a prolonged slump covering July and August, ERA over 5.00, 1-5 record, including a stretch of 10 starts (Jun 24-Aug 10) without a W. He had a good 2nd half overall this year. If that boosts his trade value, and they can get a bat that they need for him, I'd be in favor of trading Arroyo. Obviously, if they plan to make a move for Sabathia, and can land him, Arroyo would seem to be the logical choice to move. Arroyo is streakier and more prone to slumps than Adam Dunn. An ERA of almost 7.00 in April. Over 8.00 in June.

Last year he hit a stretch of 12 starts covering all of May & June going 2-7 with a 5.88 ERA.

Everyone likes to think of him as the 2006 version. He’s never pitched like that over a full season before in his career. And even in that magical (for him) season, he had a prolonged slump covering July and August, ERA over 5.00, 1-5 record, including a stretch of 10 starts (Jun 24-Aug 10) without a W.

He had a good 2nd half overall this year. If that boosts his trade value, and they can get a bat that they need for him, I’d be in favor of trading Arroyo.

Obviously, if they plan to make a move for Sabathia, and can land him, Arroyo would seem to be the logical choice to move.

]]> By: Y-City Jim http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184292 Y-City Jim Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:24:36 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184292 Arroyo has yet to prove that he can do it for an entire season and he is on the books for $9 million next season. He simply is not worth it. Of those I listed, all would give better performances better than the Eric Miltons, Dave Williams, Paul Wilsons, Jimmy Haynes, Cory Lidles, etc. of the world. Arroyo has yet to prove that he can do it for an entire season and he is on the books for $9 million next season. He simply is not worth it. Of those I listed, all would give better performances better than the Eric Miltons, Dave Williams, Paul Wilsons, Jimmy Haynes, Cory Lidles, etc. of the world.

]]> By: Evarmstrong http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184229 Evarmstrong Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:44:09 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184229 Sorry Y-City, none of those you listed have yet to prove they can do anything on the major league level, so unless we could get say a player like that kid at third for the Rays, I don't deal a good starting pitcher. Sorry Y-City, none of those you listed have yet to prove they can do anything on the major league level, so unless we could get say a player like that kid at third for the Rays, I don’t deal a good starting pitcher.

]]> By: Y-City Jim http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184033 Y-City Jim Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:25:44 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184033 The Reds have young arms, which makes Arroyo replaceable at a much cheaper price. Thompson, Bailey, Maloney, Ramirez are all waiting the opportunity. The Reds have young arms, which makes Arroyo replaceable at a much cheaper price. Thompson, Bailey, Maloney, Ramirez are all waiting the opportunity.

]]> By: Evarmstrong http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184026 Evarmstrong Sun, 28 Sep 2008 17:08:34 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1184026 I am not sure how anyone could question keeping Bronson on the team. Pitching wins titles,and finally we have the makings of a decent staff. Clubhouse problem...prove it. I am not sure how anyone could question keeping Bronson on the team. Pitching wins titles,and finally we have the makings of a decent staff. Clubhouse problem…prove it.

]]> By: Y-City Jim http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1183393 Y-City Jim Sun, 28 Sep 2008 02:57:37 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1183393 Yahoo's box score was been a real source of amusement tonight, Check out the scoring summary for tonight's game: Bot 4th: St. Louis - A. Miles scored, T. Wellemeyer out at third - A. Miles scored, T. Wellemeyer out at third Top 7th: Cincinnati - Batter singled to left, C. Patterson scored Bot 8th: St. Louis - A. Miles grounded out to shortstop, A. Kennedy scored Top 9th: Cincinnati - D. Weathers homered to deep left Yahoo’s box score was been a real source of amusement tonight, Check out the scoring summary for tonight’s game:

Bot 4th: St. Louis
- A. Miles scored, T. Wellemeyer out at third
- A. Miles scored, T. Wellemeyer out at third
Top 7th: Cincinnati
- Batter singled to left, C. Patterson scored
Bot 8th: St. Louis
- A. Miles grounded out to shortstop, A. Kennedy scored
Top 9th: Cincinnati
- D. Weathers homered to deep left

]]> By: Y-City Jim http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1183388 Y-City Jim Sun, 28 Sep 2008 02:51:26 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1183388 <a href="http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/" rel="nofollow">Read McCoy's blog</a> <em>But as he told Castellini, “Sometimes it is difficult to be patient because time is running out. That’s OK, though, because when leave I want to have made this team a winner, won a championship and leave the organization in a better place than when we got here. I want to do what Tom Kelly did with the Minnesota Twins.”</em> <strong>Dusty, you are no Tom Kelly.</strong> Read McCoy’s blog

But as he told Castellini, “Sometimes it is difficult to be patient because time is running out. That’s OK, though, because when leave I want to have made this team a winner, won a championship and leave the organization in a better place than when we got here. I want to do what Tom Kelly did with the Minnesota Twins.”

Dusty, you are no Tom Kelly.

]]> By: mhopp http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1183340 mhopp Sun, 28 Sep 2008 01:57:46 +0000 http://redlegnation.com/2008/09/27/game-thread-aaron-harang-edition-2/#comment-1183340 The season hasn't mattered since the Dumpster Dusty Baker decided to use Harang and Volquez in San Diego...I can't believe anyone takes him seriously when he says to do something. The season hasn’t mattered since the Dumpster Dusty Baker decided to use Harang and Volquez in San Diego…I can’t believe anyone takes him seriously when he says to do something.

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