Loading ...Interesting item here by Hal McCoy:
There are a couple of players who not only are on the DL, they are AWOL.
Well, maybe AWOL is a bit harsh. AWOL means absent without leave and, well, maybe it isn’t too harsh.
Nobody said Ryan Freel and Norris Hopper couldn’t leave when it was determined that injuries ended their season. And they haven’t been seen much in the clubhouse.
In contrast, Alex Gonzalez hasn’t played all season, but he is in the clubhouse all the time and has been most of the season.
It says something to manager Dusty Baker and it says something to the other players….
The point about Freel and Hopper is this? When it comes down to making some choices next spring, what is going to be remembered about them? They didn’t care enough to stick around and support their teammates.
Baker likes guys like Edwin Encarancion and Jay Bruce, guys who got hurt recently but are already begging to get back in the lineup.
After missing five straight games, Encarnacion took batting practice Sunday and said, “I plan to play (today).”
Bruce was hit by a pitch Saturday and although he said he is all right, manager Dusty Baker didn’t even ask him about playing Sunday, “But I’m sure he’ll be OK (for today).”
Of Encarnacion’s and Bruce’s desires to play, even with nothing at stake, Baker said, “I like that. I’m telling you, I like guys who want to play. I don’t care if nothing is at stake, you have to want to play. I don’t like those shut-it-down guys who shut it down.
“Guys who want to play have pride and hunger,” Baker added. “And you can’t give that to anybody. It comes from inside. You have it or you don’t.”
So, what do you guys and gals think? I guess it really doesn’t bother me that much, but I can see where people would be irritated by this type of thing. To me, I hope the question of who to keep next spring comes down to keeping the most talented players, not guys who like to be at the ballpark.
Of course, if I were Norris Hopper or Ryan Freel, I think I would be spending every second at the ballpark that I could, even when I was injured. Frankly, the Hoppers and Freels of the world are expendable, and their major league careers could be over any second anyway. Especially Hopper. After spending all those years trying to fight his way to the big leagues, I can’t believe he wouldn’t want to hang out at the park and spend as much time in the big leagues as possible.
Again, what do you think?
I think it would be very discouraging to watch Patterson being ran out there in your place every day. I think the grind of the season and watching that can only be taken for so long.
This isn’t high school. How many of us would be at work if we were off on sick leave.
Bottom line is that the best roster will play next year. If the best includes Hopper and Freel then they will be there. I’ve spent some time with Hopper and there couldn’t be a better kid on the team from a personality and attitude standpoint.
How many years in a row did Griffey leave with an injury half way through September. Heck under McKeon, Griffey and Larkin left early and weren’t injured. Didn’t get held against them.
Hal is running out of things to stir up.
It does seem like Hal doesn’t like these two and is trying to stir up something against them…he even basically admits as much at the end of his post. On the other hand, if I was a fringe talent guy like those two, I’d be doing everything in my power to keep myself in the picture. Sure Griff left, but with his talent (5 or 6 years ago) who was going to threaten his spot on the team? Unfortunately for these guys, they don’t have that talent and can’t afford to be thought of as expendable, which it seems like they are now.
And regarding Patterson, as much as I can’t stand him, we can’t blame everything on him. Freel and Hopper are big boys, if they’re going to pout and not show up because of him, I don’t want them on the team anyway.
I know they got families and other things to deal with but it’d be nice if they could find more time to be at the ballpark with their team.
They are a member of a team and they are expected to support the other members. The club doesn’t necessarily want to spend the money for them to travel with the Reds on the road but home attendance is looked on favorably by Big Bob, the Williams boys, and the front office.
Actually, I understand that both spend a fair amount of time in the trainer’s room earlier in the day when Mark and Steve come in. That room is off limits to the press anyway and these two factors may not lend themselves to ol’ Hal seeing them at the yard.
As much as I would love to agree that “the best roster will play next year” – that hasn’t (necessarily) been the case this year. If I’m Hopper or Freel I recognize that the daily roster is filled out with feelings, hunches, and divining rods and I recognize that my being around is a good way to get in the good graces of my manager.
You may double the OBP of our everyday centerfielder, but unless Dusty likes you you’re not playing. Dusty isn’t going to like you if you’re not around.
To me, it speaks of a lack of desire to remain on the team. Can you blame them?
Its funny because the players have to show up, even if they are injured, unless they are given permission not to. So someone gave these guys permission to pack it up and go home. Dusty is throwing these guys under the bus.
People STILL dog Griffey and Larkin eight years after leaving early on the last day of 2000. I was at that game in St. Louis and was pretty disappointed in them.
Freel and Hopper are marginal role-players at best, totally expendable. Neither should have a spot on this team in the spring anyway. This is a non-issue. Hal even points out that nobody said they couldn’t leave. If the team wants to reprimand them, it can, if they didn’t get permission to go. But it sounds like they got permission to go and rehab their injuries.
But I do agree the “best roster will play next year” is a total crock. Dusty can’t even put the best lineup on the field consistently, and he can’t even put them in a logical order.
I guess I’m not sure what I think about this issue…I really like a team full of guys who are passionate about the team, who like Cincinnati, are rooting for us to win, etc. But at the same time, the season is over and these guys know they’re not even playing again until April…I wonder if I’d be in the clubhouse every day if I was Freel or Hopper, probably not, even though my idealistic image of baseball is a bunch of guys who wouldn’t want to stay home for a single game…
How many years in a row did Griffey leave with an injury half way through September. Heck under McKeon, Griffey and Larkin left early and weren’t injured. Didn’t get held against them
Bingo!!!
How much of this is a Dusty performance for the media?
maybe Freel and Hopper are just following the footsteps of certain blogger owners that stopped watching the reds at all and started rooting for another team because things werent going the way they wanted them too
Dusty can’t even put the best lineup on the field consistently, and he can’t even put them in a logical order.
Great line!!
“Blogger owners” aren’t employees of the Cincinnati Reds.
So you don’t have any other teams you root for in the postseason chase or postseason? You’ve quit watching baseball (or at least quit rooting for particular teams to win) in each of the past 12 Octobers?
They shouldn’t be back next year.
Not for this, just because they’re no longer good at the game of baseball.
The problems will not cease until Dusty Baker is gone. I’ve never seen a manager consistently do the opposite of the logical; show such blatant favoratism; and one that never admits when he is wrong.
Did we forget what happened with his previous management job in San Fran? …HE GOT FIRED! How about Chicago?…HE GOT FIRED! He’s not a top notch manager, admitted he prefers veterans, and was under .500 while managing in Chicago. He went over the GM’s head to get Corey Patterson, then the GM lost his job (gee, that was fishy) and continues to give the finger to all fans as he allows him to play. He has shifted everyone around in the line up and their position in order to get him to play…He’s completely insane!!! I’m thinking Dusty Baker has some mental disease, really he’s irrational in his decisions and statements…for the first time I think the Reds have a manager that may be in the early stages of Alzheimers Disease! I don’t blame any player for leaving the team or not wanting to come in and play. Would you like to come to work if you knew your manager was playing favorites? I’m not even convinced Chris Dickerson or Jay Bruce are all that hurt. I think it’s possible Dusty is giving them extra days off so he can let Corey play in the hopes of bringing him back next year and/or hoping he’ll improve so Dusty has less egg on his face for going over his GM’s head.. It seems as though those who are in conflict with Dusty see the exit door quickly, best thing to do is to just lay low and maybe that is what Freel and Hopper should do, they both have always wanted to play and played with a lot of heart but when your up against Sorrey Bakerson…what do you do?
“So you don’t have any other teams you root for in the postseason chase or postseason”
the key word there is POSTSEASON
We’ve all been living in a “Patterseason” and it’s the worst season I can remember.
Its funny because the players have to show up, even if they are injured, unless they are given permission not to. So someone gave these guys permission to pack it up and go home. Dusty is throwing these guys under the bus.
Yeah, I might not hang out at the office if I’m on sick leave, but I guarantee I get the proper approvals if I want to get paid.
I think he’s wanting to send a message moreso to someone in the clubhouse now to get them to work harder or something. Doesn’t make much sense otherwise. I think Dusty would rather chew butt by picking on someone who’s not there to send a message to someone who is….that’s a player’s manager for you….
They shouldn’t be back next year.
Not for this, just because they’re no longer good at the game of baseball.
I wouldn’t say they are no longer good. When healthy they are adequate bench players. Both have decent OBP though Freel tends to be a little streaky. Both have decent speed. Hopper can bunt. Freel needs to learn how. Freel is handy defensively though he doesn’t excel at any particular position and tends to hot dog it at time. Freel’s biggest problem is that he is overpaid for what he does.
To expand on how Freel is overpaid, he was paid more in 2008 than:
Edwin Encarnacion
Joey Votto
Jay Bruce
Edinson Volquez
Johnny Cueto
Here’s even more of an insult. Paul Bako and Corey Patterson made more than each of those players as well.
I think Hal makes a good point. When a player is not with the team, even if it’s because of injury, he ceases to be thought of by the other players as being part of the team. I think that’s just a fact. I think we’ve all heard of players who go into a mental funk because the injury keeps them from being with their teamates.
I applaude Gonzales for being there. I’ve always thought of Hopper and Freel as being scrappy overachievers but now, at the very least I really have to question their judgement.
Postseason chase. When the Reds are out of it by the allstar break every year, it’s perfectly OK to have favorites in playoff picture. I always hope for the Reds to have a 2007 Colorado Rockies type run, but since even that won’t save them, why can’t I root for the D-backs to skip past the Dodgers?
“it’s perfectly OK ”
oh, well now that we have your permission………….
flip-flop, flip-flop
Some of this rant is completely ridiculous. mHopp just wants to rail about everything, no matter how much fact and logic you tell him.
Baker was fired from his last two jobs . . . so what? He won 840 games and went to the World Series at one of them, took a perennial loser to the NLCS in the other, then had deep injuries in the final two years of that contract. Managers get fired. Part of life in baseball. Happens to the very best.
Torre was fired three times before the Yankees. Stengel? Fired twice before the Yankees. Dick Williams? Fired six times and he’s got three rings. LaRussa? Yep, he was fired from the White Sox. Bobby Cox? Uh-huh, fired twice–as a GM and a manager.
Because Baker was fired is a moot point. Proves nothing.
Making a comparison of Griffey to Freel and Hopper is also preposterous. Griffey is a first-ballot HOFer with a long-term contract. He was the cornerstone of the franchise. And it was Bowden, not McKeon, who allowed Griffey and Larkin to leave early. McKeon was furious, in great part because Griffey and Larkin were also stabbing him in the back to Bowden, who didn’t have the guts to tell the two players to shut up.