Loading ...Reds and Cubs in an afternoon affair today, so it’s a good opportunity to ignore work and follow the game. Of course, the pitching matchup is Josh Fogg vs. Carlos Zambrano, so the Reds have their work cut out for them, without question.
Discuss it here.
1. Dickerson – LF
2. Keppinger – SS
3. Bruce – RF
4. Phillips – 2B
5. Votto – 1B
6. Encarnacion – 3B
7. Patterson – CF
8. Bako – C
9. Fogg – P
5 out of the 9 “hitters” in the lineup have a batting average of below .260, and Votto leads the Reds with a .276 average. Ouch.
I’ll be watching…although unless the Reds jump up for like 3 or 4 runs in the begining it’ll be hopeless as far as a win is concerned. Fogg seems to have Belisle disease. Anytime the team scores a run or two he’ll give it right back.
Could this be the last time we see Josh Fogg in a Reds uniform? If he has yet another sub-par outing, I have to think Matt Maloney or Bobby Livingston will get called up. I sure hope so.
Also wanted to add that I’m sort of shocked to see Rosales not get a start in this series. He’s in his hometown still waiting for his first MLB start and Dusty just lets him ride the bench.
At the same point the only guy I’d want him playing over would be Keppinger but Keppinger is starting to hit again.
Put Votto in LF (he’s actually quite good there), Dickerson in CF, Bruce in RF, and Rosales at 1B. Might I add Rosales is hitting .340 since Mat and had 8 straight MULTI-HIT games at AAA.
What the f**k?? I don’t think Patterson or Bako have had 8 multi-hit games all season long.
I hate Dusty Baker.
Votto is good in left field? The stats don’t seem to agree…
Votto is good in left field? The stats don’t seem to agree…
The more I think about Rosales and the way Dusty goes about things. I’m gonna guess that he didn’t start Rosales today because it’s Zambrano. Dusty has a thing for trying to start rookies against crappier pitchers to build up their confidence, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing at all.
So why didn’t he start against Ted Lilly last night? A LHP? Since he does the whole LH RH LH RH thing every single night. And so what if Votto isn’t that great in LF. He’s better than Dunn, and what we’re looking for is OFFENSE. Something Patterson and Bako do not bring to the table.
what are people’s thought on WJ resigning Patterson or Bako next year? Both are Dusty’s boys and both are still getting undeserved starts.
If they are here again next year, I will become a Pirates fan.
Bako and Patterson? Why O Why dear lord?…If the argument that Bako catches the young guys has merit, wouldn’t the opposite be true if a veteran is pitching? Hanigan should be catching….O thats right, I forgot it’s that curious lefty/righty thing…Bako is catching because his dangerous left handed bat will be so much better against Righty Zambrano…..bwahaha….
Is Votto better in LF than 1B? I don’t recall ever seeing a first baseman that stood out as me as not that great until Votto.
He didn’t start against Lilly last night because in the minor leagues he hit right handers around .300 and left handers around .200.
Neither Paul Bako or Corey Patterson will be back next year.Who really cares that they start? Joey Votto isn’t moving to left field this year or probably next year. If he ever does. How can you say Votto is better than Dunn in left field? When Votto has played he’s had about as many errors as Dunn but in less playing time.
Votto’s fine as long as he doesn’t have to dig anything out of the dirt or take a ball on the hop….yea Votto and EE, perfect infield combo…..NOT!
Joey Votto is a good first baseman. The stats show that one. He has his issues making tosses to the pitcher at times and doesn’t scoop the ball well…. but he gets to more baseballs as a fielder than nearly anyone other first baseman in the game and that counts a whole lot.
Is he good in LF? I am not sure, but I think he could be in time. Still, Rosales needs to get some time. A game in LF for him or Votto isn’t going to be disasterous. The fact that Bako and Patterson are still starting (and Keppinger for that matter) boggles my mind.
Jesus, Zambrano needs to take a chill pill…dude’s nuts
Fogg is dead meat.
Why is he still starting while Livingston and Maloney are down at AAA? They at least have a future with this club, whereas Fogg does not.
What I don’t understand is why the Cubs fans boo Corey Patterson so much. Yes he’s not good but it’s not like he said something bad about the people or anything. It just seems pointless to hold a grudge against somebody for nothing more than the fact they are bad.It’d be like Reds fans booing Ray Olmedo(although Ray was never a huge prospect like Patterson once was).
the black hole strikes again…
Mark DeRosa = Reds killer.
It’d be like Reds fans booing Ray Olmedo
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Olmedo never got more than 250 ABs in a season. I doubt he ever got more than 50 in a season.
There is no need to rush starters through the farm system.
Ray Ray was the first guy I can think of that was with the team for a bunch of years but wasn’t very good. Although Patterson did have a year where he hit .298 and an OBP over .300!!! Of course that was 03 when they went to the playoffs.
It’s not like they’re rushed. Livingston showed he could pitch in the big leagues last year, and Maloney was at AAA last year as well. He’s more ready than Homer Bailey will ever be.
Maybe they boo Patterson for the same reason we do.
Phill, the reason it bugs us (or at least the reason it bugs me) that Bako and Patterson are starting instead of Rosales and Hanigan is the fact that the front office team is claiming that they’ve made space so that young prospects can get “valuable playing time” for the rest of the season. I don’t care if Votto’s going to miss all the balls in left field, Rosales and Hanigan are both going to get 0-fers and Hanigan is going to ruin Fogg’s start by calling the wrong pitches. The reason they’re with the team is to get playing time. I am upset that Bako and Patterson and Fogg keep starting because they don’t have futures with the team, and honestly, winning more games this season doesn’t actually matter. I’d like to see management make good on their b.s. claim that they’re getting ‘valuable starting time” for our young players.
You no Olmedo and Pokey Reese are playing for Old Leatherpants in Columbus!
Bobby has a 5+ era in AAA, Maloney has around a 4 era.They’ll get called up when the minor league instructors and Jocketty/whoever else is in that “brain” trust of assistants to Jocketty decides they’re ready for the call.
Although I think the Reds could use Livingston’s bat right now.
I agree w/Kevin
I am embarassed to say that in April I went to a cubs-reds game at Wrigley, and I got mad and asked the cubs fans around me why they had to boo Patterson. (I defended him =( ), that was before his OBS dropped to .200, but anyway, now I understand. If I’m ever at a game where Patterson is playing ever again (which I hope I am not), I will boo harder than I’ve ever booed at him.
Zambrano homers off Fogg….ouch.
firedustynow,
Matt Maloney got his brains kicked in his last AAA start. He is not ready for the majors, much less more ready now than Homer Bailey ever will be. Maloney gives up the long ball at a big time rate in AAA in a pitchers league…. he would not do so hot in Cincinnati.
As for Livingston, he is much like Maloney…. mediocre stuff at best and he is only going to fool quality hitters for so long.
Am I seeing things or is Eric Davis in the dugout?
The simple answer to the Maloney issue is that he has little or no movement on his fastball. His velocity is fine but the lack of movement dooms him to AAA. He would be whacked all over the place at GABP.
The Phillies knew that when they swapped him to the Reds for Lohse. The Louisville squad has a great pitching coach in Ted Power who has worked with him for a full year now. Ted is no fool and if he thought Maloney should be in Cincy, he would have convinced the brass of the same. I understand that quite the opposite is true.
Yeah, that 1 bad start for Maloney is his 1st in what, 7 starts? Before that his ERA was in the 3’s. He will be better than Bailey will ever be.
This game is friggin’ awful.
I’m gonna get going for a bit but just to clarify, I’m not saying I like Fogg or want to see him I just don’t want to see another guy get rushed like Homer did especially since there is no reason to rush him at this point.
Also I wanted to say Corey Patterson and Paul Bako are god awful.I wish all the young guys would play but I know it won’t happen. I hate it but that’s how the world works.
Why is that “how the world works” especially when WJ and BC are saying otherwise?!
Thom Brenneman said on the radio at the beginning of the game that Eric Davis is with the team on this road trip, and that he may be primed to join the team on a full-time basis (next year?) as some kind of coach or instructor. Talked about Davis coaching baserunning and encouraging Votto to steal bases more often.
Patterson showing off his excellent defensive prowess once again…
Thanks DevilsAd, interesting. I appreciate ED’s loyalty to the organization. I assume he’s also doing it for free at this point. Maybe not.
Wow, Chris Welsh is finally getting pissed at Patterson…”I don’t even know why he’s out there”…..
I wish Dusty would have heard him say that. Dusty will probably have him fired tomorrow because he questioned him. OK Fogg goes 4 IP. Can we DFA him now?
I hate it but that’s how the world works.
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That’s how Dusty Baker works. It doesn’t have to be that way. If we had a manager with 1/2 a brain, it wouldn’t be that way.
Turns out I wasn’t as busy as I thought I would be. What did Patterson do? Drop a ball?
No you can’t DFA Fogg, unless you have a starter that can replace him and go longer than that…which the Reds don’t have.
Booing your own teams players is pathetic. Unless the guy has said something that is offensive or acts like Manny Ramirez and refused to play is booing your own players justifiable. As I said that is just straight up pathetic. Maybe following the Cubs would be better for you. They always have plenty of space on the bandwagon and when the wheels fall off it’s highly encouraged to boo your best players.
firedustynow,
Honest question, how many times have you seen Maloney pitch? I have seen him pitch over 30 times. He hangs his curve a lot, tops out around 91 MPH with little to no movement and a good change up.
He is what he is, but he is at absolute best, a strong #4 starting pitcher. He is a big flyball pitcher with 60% flyballs put in play against him. Couple that with mediocre stuff and GABP and it isn’t likely to be a pretty sight.
Bailey has his share of issues, but there are absolutely no doubts in my mind that unless he has an injury, he will be a much better major leaguer than Maloney.
In my opinion, the most important thing the Reds can be doing for the next 6 weeks is keeping the young arms healthy. There is absolutely NOTHING to be gained from over-extending Cueto and Volquez.
Last year, here are the innings they both pitched (not counting any winter league stuff):
2007 Cueto – 161 IP
2007 Volquez – 178 IP
I’d like to keep them both under 180 IP this year. Currently they’re both at about 150 IP.
I hope Dusty and the braintrust value this. I really do. Most important thing IMO.
And by the way, this is the usefulness of Fogg etc. now — eat some innings and keep the young guys fresh and healthy.
The 2nd most important thing the Reds can do (IMO) is to experiment. Get some questions answered.
–Can Phillips play SS well?
–Is Keppinger better at 2B than SS?
–Can Votto play LF?
–Can EE play LF?
–Can Dickerson play CF?
–Is Hanigan a viable major league C?
–Can Affeldt start?
–What can Bailey do?
I don’t know what the questions are, but there must be tons of them. Get answers to them now! These are real games against real teams — much more “real” than any spring training games.
The games can be useful, if we use them that way.
Dan, you are absolutely dead-on.
They are only treading water and wasting valuable major league ABs and defensive opportunities for the young guys by playing Patterson and Bako.
And on the flipside, they need to be careful in doing the opposite with our young studs by pitching Volquez and Cueto too MUCH. Stretch them out a bit over how much they threw last year, perhaps, but don’t overdo it by overworking them in meaningless games.
Which leads me to Harang: Should he be shut down or not? If he really is hurt at all, what’s the value in risking further injury?
Either they really don’t know his situation, or they’re not willing to tell us for some bizarre reason.
First things first Rosales if they think he has a part in the future should get starts over Keppinger. See what the kid has at shortstop.We already know what Keppinger can do. He can give limited defense at almost every position and can hit for decent average(no power and no speed). At the very least try out a platoon of Rosales-Keppinger. Kepp gets lefties and Rosales gets righties.
Yup, good idea, Phill. What can Rosales do at the major league level? Good question.
Might as well find out the answer now rather than giving him 30 AB’s in spring training against mostly minor leaguers and then trying to figure something out based on that.
Maybe following the Cubs would be better for you. They always have plenty of space on the bandwagon and when the wheels fall off it’s highly encouraged to boo your best players.
Ouch. Well, maybe you’re right, Phill, The Patterson situation sometimes clouds my judgment , but I do agree with you that it’s not that justifiable.