Reds sign Yonder Alonso (and Yorman Rodriguez)
From Reds.com:
It went down to the wire, but when midnight ET struck and moved Friday into Saturday, first-round Draft pick Yonder Alonso was signed and sealed as a member of the Reds.
After they were seemingly far apart most of the day, a deal was reached shortly before the looming deadline. Terms were not revealed, but Alonso signed a Major League contract through 2012 that is believed to be worth $4.5 million, plus incentives.
(snip…)
By signing the 22-year-old Alonso to a Major League deal, the Reds have to place the first baseman on their 40-man roster. But that was a lesser concern for the club during negotiations.
“One, we think he’ll be here quickly,” Reds assistant GM Bob Miller said. “It’s not like we’re worried about the [Minor League] options. The other issue is we have a lot of free agents and have some room. If it would have been a really tight roster, it would have been much more difficult.”
An obvious question surrounds where Alonso will play once he reaches the Majors. The Reds already have a young rookie first baseman in Joey Votto.
“He played first most of the time at Miami, but Miami had a good third baseman,” Buckley said. “We think he can play third base. He can definitely play first. He may be able to play third.”
So, they got the deal done…but was it overpaying for a first baseman?
UPDATE (from Chad): Alonso wasn’t the only signing yesterday:
Center fielder Yorman Rodriguez, a 16-year-old from Venezuela, was signed to a contract. Considered a five-tool player, his birthday was on Friday. The youngest a foreign player can sign a contract is 16.
“He might be the top position prospect in all of Latin America,” Reds scouting director Chris Buckley said.
The Reds major league roster is a complete mess, but at least they are making a splash in Latin America.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:59 am
IF this guy can hit as well as he\’s supposed to, they are far from overpaying.
My gut tells me I\’m getting this wrong, but I don\’t think the \”major league contract\” aspect of this affects his free agent or arb-eligible dates.
Ordinarily, the Reds would control his rights for 6 years, and could pay him the minimum for 2 (or possibly 3) years.
Let me walk through this, and tell me where I\’m wrong: They\’re paying $4.5M for probably 1-2 minor league season and 2-3 big league seasons. For Joe Schmuck, with no bonus, that costs what - $1.0M? (2 yrs of minor league contracts, plus 2 years at or near the league minimum?)
From that perspective, it\’s a fine deal for the Reds. For the money they\’re paying Corey Patterson this year, they get to upgrade from Joe Schmuck to a (supposedly) elite young 1b.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:13 am
I think the biggest thing with the Reds this year has been their desire and ability to get into Latin America and start signing quality prospects.
Do they have to clear out the 40 man spot today or is it by the time he plays in his first game?
August 16th, 2008 at 11:29 am
If Patterson was the one to get cleared out, Alonzo would be an instant hero.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:32 am
WOW! That’s a lot to be excited about!
August 16th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Could Votto play 3B? His range on ground balls looks pretty solid at 1st. He seems quick enough. Not sure how great his arm is.
I don’t think there’s a chance Alonso can play 3rd. That’s a pipe dream, IMO.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
With this signing, I’m curious as to why the Reds wouldn’t just go ahead and throw Votto out in left for the rest of the season - that is, of course, if the rumors are true that they think he could be a decent LF.
Give him some time out there and let LLM/Rosales/Philips handle 1B. That way perhaps Joey might be good and ready by the time Alonzo makes it up here (perhaps this time next year with any luck?)
Seriously, I’m asking you guys, is there anything to those Votto to left rumors, especially now that Alonzo has been inked?
For some reason, that seems more viable to me than 3B because I really think that spot is EE’s at least for another season before they give up on him there.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Steve, I think that certainly has merit. Votto played six games in LF last September. It also gets Patterson out of the line-up since Dickerson goes to CF.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Last year, I had a late night chat in Cleveland with Cowboy and a couple of the coaches. Not to betray any confidences, but a few of my amigos thought that night that whileJoey could adequately play left, Edwin might be much better there. They believed in his athletic abilities but had no confidence in his throwing abilites across the diamond. The consensus was that he would eventually move to left field and the Rojos would get themselves a new third sacker.
This makes sense. Third base is a power position and EE is barely adequate in that department and below average in defense. If you can whack the ball out of the part consistently, that will make up for some defensive deficiencies. I bet that the Reds will try and groom Alonso to play third base. I’m sure that is why they drafted him. If he can’t cut it, they can always relocate Votto who is only adequate himself at first base.
Watch for the kid to be groomed at the hot corner.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Wow, inside information? Hott. Votto LF, not-Patterson CF, and Bruce RF, then 1B Alonso and 3B Ede looks ok to me in a year or two, and also 1B Votto, 3B Alonso, and EdE traded somewhere also looks ok to me.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
I doubt it. I think Alonso will stay at 1b. I think Edwin will, mostly, stay at 3b. I know that Votto played a lot of LF last year in AAA (41 games).
August 16th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
I am having a hard time thinking this “Alonso to 3b” stuff:
- The Reds never mentioned it when he was drafted or after.
- He’s supposed to be a marginal-to-okay 1b.
- He doesn’t look especially mobile.
- His Miami bio says “can play first or third,” but I don’t think he ever actually did.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
A Whole lot can happen before the kid is ready for the bigs anyway. I like the idea of moving Votto to left.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
The earliest this guy gets in the bigs is September 2009. There is plenty of time between no and then for roster jockeying.
Hopefully we trade for Matt Holiday in the offseason and get to stop imagining what a winning team looks like.
The primary advantage of having a strong farm, is using it for trade leverage for proven talent.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
And what exactly are the Reds going to trade away for Matt Holliday?
Holliday would be only a year rental as he’s an FA at the end of next year.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Why do so many folks worry about overpaying?
Only a tiny handful of people really know how much money the Reds have at their disposal. Consequently, only a tiny handful of people know what they can afford to spend on personnel.
THe going rate for any player is what he asks for and what some club is willing to pay. E.g., Cordero asked for $40+ million and got it. Therefore, that’s his going rate and, also, the going rate for comparable players.
Only the owners have the ability to roll back player compensation, and they don’t seem especially motivated to do that.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Third base is a power position and EE is barely adequate in that department
1) I don’t buy that 3B has to be a power position.
2) Edwin has pretty decent power numbers. He is like in the top six NL SLG percentages.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Why do so many folks worry about overpaying?
Overpaying sets precedents. That’s how salary arbitration became such an albatross to ownership. Idiots like Ted Turner were overpaying for free agents so when players went to arbitration they just had to compare themselves to some mediocre guy Turner (or equally low IQ owner) had signed, and they would win their case.
August 16th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Jim, I agree completely that third base doesn’t need to be a power position. In my opinion the idea that only a certain type of hitter should play a specific position is hogwash.
The only thing about Edwin that worries me is that his RISP numbers have all but vanished. He used to be the best clutch hitter on the team for the last two years, well maybe not 06 I think Aurilia was then. Either way he used to have insane numbers with runners on and bases loaded was even higher. I’m not sure what it is but it’s just disappeared.
August 16th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
Keep in mind that RISP opportunities have dwindled dramatically this season. With less opportunity, the more chanced for those statistics to be skewed either way.
August 16th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Perhaps but what’s alarming is things like this:
2007:
RISP(160 PA) he hit .360 with a .447 OBP. He had 3 HR with 59 RBI.
Bases Loaded(20 PA) .471 with an .550 OBP. 0HR with 18 RBI.
2008:
RISP(103 PA) BA .220 w/ .359 OBP. 1 HR w/ 23 RBI
Bases loaded(15 PA) BA .077 w/ .200 OBP 0 HR w/3 RBI
I’m just saying it’s a drastic dropoff.
August 16th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Well, Big Bob didn’t shell out the bucks (and take the mustard on his face after increasing his “final offer”) for the kid to play in Kentucky for too long. If he can only play first, then that’s where he’ll be. And soon. Bet he’s on the team fulltime in ‘09.
Votto will still be here and he is definitely a good enough athlete to handle left field.
These are good things.
We need a center fielder. A good one.
August 16th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Jim, EE is 11th in SLG among NL 3B.
August 16th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Off topic, but I’d really like to know, and I’m sure someone here does:
I’m going over early tomorrow before the game to check out the Reds’ Hall of Fame with a few buddies.
One of them said they thought admission was free with a ticket for that day’s game (which we’ll have). I don’t think that’s correct, though it’d be nice.
True? False? Help!
August 16th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
I’m just saying it’s a drastic dropoff.
But let’s say he were to go 10 for 20 with 4 BB with RISP the rest of the season. The numbers jumped to .274 BA (respectable) and .378 OBP. For a season, there just aren’t enough numbers to give a reliable sample. Over his career his numbers are .296 BA .394 OBP.
August 16th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
The weird thing with EE is though he’s 3rd in HR’s among NL 3B’s with 22 he’s only got 48 RBI’s where as the other 5 20+ HR NL 3B’s have 80+ RBI…
August 16th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Jim, EE is 11th in SLG among NL 3B.
But Branyan, Wigginton and Stewart have limited at bats. Edwin is actually 8th in SLG. You could argue 9th by combining Blake’s AL stats with his NL stats but the NL stats have skewed his overall stats. As the NL “catches on” to Casey Blake those stats will come down. Speaking of Blake, compare his lifetime stats with RISP from this year to career and you get a prime example of how small sample size can distort the total picture.
August 16th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
I dont know, numbers aside my EYES are getting a bit tired of watching EE ground out to the left side…trying to pull everything out of the park…can’t even remember the last time he went the opposite way (last night was an accident)…he’s become a right handed Griffey…In my book EE’s barely keeping his starting job.
August 16th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
RBI’s are so dependent on the other players getting on base. The Reds are 4th from last in the NL in terms of OBP. They are 24th among all ML teams. The Cubs and Red Sox are tops with an OBP of .358. The Reds stand with a .319 OBP. Pitiful! It has been below .331 since 2003. Even at his career pace, he might only have 10 more RBI’s.
August 16th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
In my book EE’s barely keeping his starting job.
In my book, most of them are barely keeping their starting job but I have to lay some blame on the hitting philosophy this club seems to have adopted. I don’t know if to blame this philosophy with Jacoby, Baker, or both.
August 16th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Agree with all the above Jim…Is it that at this level guys are basically uncoachable any longer? Why isn’t anybody trying anything different. Didn’t Baker start out as a hitting coach? What is Brook Jacoby doing? How the hell does Tony LaRussa keep winning
with a completely different cast of characters? (except Puhols). Did we really lose last night to Felipe Lopez, Jason LaRue and Ron Villone?
August 16th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
votto could play 3rd
he began as a 3rd basemen
August 16th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
How does Larussa keep winning? Dave Duncan, pitching coach, and Hal McRae, hitting coach, help quite a bit. They seem to be able to resurrect players.
I don’t doubt that Brook Jacoby works very hard but the results speak for themselves. Perhaps only Ray Knight’s brief tenure as hitting coach was any worse.
August 16th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Not to pick on Buddy, but this right here is an example of why you need to trust stats:
I dont know, numbers aside my EYES are getting a bit tired of watching EE ground out to the left side…trying to pull everything out of the park…can’t even remember the last time he went the opposite way (last night was an accident)
See what happened: Observation (”I see EE pulling the ball”) leads to conclusion (”He’s no good”), then leads to dismissing evidence that counters the conclusion (”last night was an accident.”)
Stats are nothing more than a full season (or career’s) worth of objective observations.
Now, the truth is that EE has always been a dead pull hitter. That’s what he does best.
Take a look at this, for 2008.
When he pulls the ball:
.483 .483 1.075 1.558
Up the middle:
.222 .219 .329 .548
Opposite field:
.037 .037 .037 .074
Career:
Pulled:
.485 .482 .954 1.436
Middle:
.274 .273 .412 .684
Oppo:
.191 .191 .270 .461
August 16th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
No worries Chris, I don’t mind getting picked on. I guess i’m just not a big fan of dead pull hitters especially when they’re dead pulling these kind of stats…2008:
RISP(103 PA) BA .220 w/ .359 OBP. 1 HR w/ 23 RBI
Bases loaded(15 PA) BA .077 w/ .200 OBP 0 HR w/3 RBI
Also my conclusion wasn’t that “he’s no good” it was that in my opinion he’s barely keeping the starting job. But like Jim said, the same could be said for most of the team. Thanks for the stats, very interesting.
August 16th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Ted Williams was a dead pull hitter. No pun intended with the dead reference.
August 16th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
From Fay’s blog:
Talked to Walt Jocketty about Yonder Alonso today. Two things:
–They think he’ll be ready in the 2010. “He thinks he’s ready now,” Jocketty said. “I like that.”
–The Reds will consider moving Joey Votto to the outfield. Left is the obvious spot. Alonso will work out at third base as well as first.
Was it a good signing? It depends on how Alonso turns out. I think he has the potential to be a Lance Berkman type — a good hitter with power and a great on-base percentage. His on-base was .534 this year. The Reds need more hitters like that. This team is terrible at running up pitch counts.
But it’s a huge step from college to the majors. We saw that with Brandon Larson, who the Reds took over Berkman by the way.
Is Fay slowly converting to a sabermetric way of looking at things? He actually got excited by OBP and the need for hitters to run up pitch counts.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
2010 sounds about right to me. We’ll probably get a look at him in September next year? 2010 sounds like a good year to me. I don’t really think Jocketty’s going to have any success coming up with “quick-fixes” this offseason, but if our last 3 number one draft picks (Stubbs, Mesoraco, and Alonso) are all ready in 2010, then we might have something like Mesoraco-Alonso-Phillips-new SS-EdE-Votto-Stubbs-Bruce in the field. I’m sure that this will change a lot, but what I’m seeing is that some of our big holes right now, that need to be filled surrounding the “young-core” of Votto and Bruce, seem to be paired with some worthwhile prospects (although Stubbs and Mesoraco aren’t Votto and Bruce, I think they could both be good)
August 17th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
The team lived for several years with Dunn in LF. I can’t imagine that Votto couldn’t do a better job out there than AD did.
I know its going to be awhile before Alonzo is in the bigs but once again, this team is still too lefthanded at the plate.