Loading ...(Ed. Bumped to top, to add more articles. New links at top, yesterday’s links below.)
So long, Junior. We’re going to miss you.
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–John Erardi asks whether Junior can handle center field for Chicago. I have serious doubts about whether he can.
–It’s time for the Reds to look to the future.
–Junior talk was in the air all day long, according to Rory Glynn of the Enquirer, who ignores all the craziness among Reds fans on the blogs yesterday.
–John Fay has something of a trade timeline, and here’s a Junior timeline.
–If you really want to cringe, you can meet the new Reds.
–Johnny Bench thinks it was a good trade. So the Reds have that going for them, which is nice.
–And here are the two dumbest articles published in the wake of the Junior trade: Mark Curnutte (Enquirer) reports that the Bengals players are okay with the trade (wow, that’s a relief), and Mark Gokavi (DDN) declares that Griffey, Jr., and former/current Packers QB Brett Favre just aren’t what they used to be. Good grief; the absurdity has reached new highs.
More links beneath the fold…
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–Justin analyzes the trade, as only he can. I agree with his summary completely:
With this trade, the Reds managed to dump a financial and performance liability and come out of it $4 million richer next season. I don’t expect that the players they’re receiving in return for him will amount to much of anything, but given that they are making the league-minimum, it doesn’t matter all that much. Overall, I think the Reds “win” this deal.
From a sentimental standpoint, though, this is kind of a tough pill to swallow. I’m going to miss having Griffey on our team. I liked knowing he was there, and was proud of have him on our team–even if his skills were no longer an asset.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
–Thanks, Junior, and Go White Sox!
–Here is GM Walt Jocketty on the trade, and here’s what Adam Dunn had to say. And, for good measure, here is the official press release.
–I started to read this “What If?” column from the Enquirer, but I read the words “Pokey Reese” and then I threw up on my keyboard. It’s probably a good read, though; it has some quotes from our buddy Greg Rhodes.
–Marty Brennaman was shocked by the deal.
–Here’s ESPN’s Keith Law, one of my favorite analysts, on the trade.
–”Like Rose, Griffey not always loved.” Indeed, and it’s a shame.
–Enquirer editorial on the trade.
–”Disappointing Griffey era ends in Cincinnati.”
–Greg Silverman in the DDN says that fans have mixed emotions. No question about that.
–Perspectives from the Chicago Tribune (thumbs up) and The Sporting News (hat tip to Red Reporter).
–Meet 2B Danny Richar. If you must.
–No other deals were completed before the deadline, and I can’t say I’m very happy about David Weathers and Josh Fogg remaining on the roster. They could still be dealt, however, if they pass through waivers.
Please resign Dunn. His quote “I don’t know what’s going on there. It’s one of those things. I haven’t heard anything from anyone” doesn’t give me a good feeling. It would be nice if they’d let him know he is wanted.
And Richar has 9 errors (tied for the IL lead despite missing a lot of time). I like EE, but if this guy manages to end up at 2nd the Reds will have to move the walls back so I can pray for fly balls to the outfield.
I still think it’s going to be sweet for Junior to pass Sammy “I forgot how to speak English” Sosa cross town.
As far as Fogg and Weathers, we are a little stressed for pitching right now, so it might not be such a bad thing. Unless they were part of a package deal, they couldn’t have netted much anyway. Fogg still might gain us a prospect, after his face heals (I’ll avoid the obvious)and if he has a couple more decent starts. He could be a good fifth starter or long man for a pitching depleted club. The trading deadline really doesn’t mean too much.
Who is this we?
Sounds like Jocketty wasn’t even trying to move anyone:
The Reds had a chance to make other deals: “We chose not to. . . We thought we were better off holding on to our players and trying to win as many games as we can.” The White Sox called the Reds early yesterday afternoon. The deal was worked out be the time last night’s game ended: “I was surprised they called.”
So, the only player traded was based on a surprise call by the other team. The plan was to keep everyone until the end of the year. Unbelievable.
And I wish people would quit blaming Griffey for the Reds winning percentage the past 9 years. Griffey didn’t pitch. Griffey didn’t spend $27 million on 3 years of elderly Larkin or try to pass off Wilson, Milton, and Ortiz as legitimate #1-2-3 top-of-the-rotation starters.
To highlight the point even further, Griffey playd for 7 managers, 4 GMs and 2 CEOs.
They need to sign Dunn to a 3 year deal quickly.
There’s not many players in baseball who hit 40+ homers 5 years in a row. (Which he is on track to do this year)
Agreed GregD. It’s astonishing that Jocketty wasn’t burning up his cell phone trying to better this team. His presumption was that there was no market for Junior, which turned out to be untrue. It just makes you wonder how many other potential opportunities were missed. Does anyone know (outside of Dunn) what kind of compensatory picks we might get for any of the 13 free agents?
Looks like the Griffey-haters were just completely wrong about Griffey demanding to play CF:
Griffey himself was concerned that White Sox general manager Ken Williams wants him to play mostly center and fill in some in right and occasionally spell Jim Thome as the designated hitter.
“When I talked to Junior, he was very honest,” the Sox general manager told the Chicago Sun-Times. “He said, ‘Well, I’ve got to tell you, I don’t know if you’re going to see the guy from Seattle.’ I said, ‘We’re not looking for that guy from Seattle.’”
so you read one thing at onen place, another thing at another place, still another thing at still another place, decide which one you want to believe and assume that one is the true story
There is no doubt a team is just as strong as its weakest member. I don’t think Jr. deserves all of the blame but he deserves his share. When you are the star you should pick up some of the slack of the weakest member. That he did not do. For too many games he wasn’t on the field. Whether a player should be blamed for injuries is another discussion. But in the overall success of the team, in the Griffey era, it is part of the discussion.
Reds’ management deserves a big share of the blame by first giving him a contract that ran as long as it did. Seldom in baseball history have contracts longer than 4 or 5 years had a positive consequence. If Junior had a four year contract instead of nine (potentially ten) do you think the Reds would have renewed it? With his injury problems I would say no. If he would not agree to the trade without the length of the contract then that goes right back to Leatherpants and the Banana King. They should not have made the deal.
So here you have a superstar who is the centerpiece of your offense and defense who originally can not perform because of injury and later can’t perform due to eroding skills.
Like it or not that player is going to get his and more share of the blame. It goes with the money and prestige of being a superstar.
I wish him good luck. Hopefully he finds some of the mental energy that has been lacking lately in Cincy. Hopefully he gets a chance at a ring, although the Angles look pretty formidable, and then he retires before his skills start to become embarrassing to his legacy.
before his skills start to become embarrassing to his legacy
oops! too late!
And if trading Lopez and Kearns was so terrible, we can pick Lopez back up now since Washington has released him.
My only guess as to why the Reds didn’t trade off the relievers/Fogg was the return was complete garbage. I imagine the thought is to see how many wins the “new-look” Reds can get and a depleted bullpen won’t help them get too many.
Reds’ management deserves a big share of the blame by first giving him a contract that ran as long as it did.
There are plenty of OTHER worhtless contracts (and later payroll restrictions) they made during the course of Griffey’s tenure that handcuffed this team. If they don’t pay Griffey, I have NO FAITH that his salary would have been spent any wiser.
There is no doubt a team is just as strong as its weakest member. I don’t think Jr. deserves all of the blame but he deserves his share.
2005 Reds led the league in runs scored. Griffey led the team in a number of offensive categories, including AVG and OPS. The team won how many games that year? 75. 5th place. Worst ERA in the league. And that was the year Brandon Claussen put up a 4.21 ERA in 29 starts.
so you read one thing at onen place, another thing at another place, still another thing at still another place, decide which one you want to believe and assume that one is the true story
I’ll take today’s story, quoting the Chicago GM, over the rumors websites were speculating on yesterday.
And if trading Lopez and Kearns was so terrible
Trading them wasn’t terrible. Giving them away for nothing was.
My only guess as to why the Reds didn’t trade off the relievers/Fogg was the return was complete garbage. I imagine the thought is to see how many wins the “new-look”
What’s this “new look” you speak of? This team is essentially the same as it was yesterday.
I put a late post on the earlier Junior trade thread. I don’t think many saw it there so here’s a copy.
Doug, It’s good that you mention Junior’s 5 years with the Reds with such a high OPS. I hate it when people say he had “one good year” (2000) with the Reds. His best year with the Reds was probably 2005, when he batted .301 and slugged .576, and won the Silver Slugger even though he missed the last 4 weeks. That was the season after the radical surgery to staple his hamstring to the bone, noone had ever come back from surgery like that. April was his spring training, he didn’t homer until April 30. From then until he rolled his ankle on Labor Day Sunday, he was the Junior who played for Seattle. One of the most remarkable comebacks in the history of baseball, and it’s forgotten already, I never even hear his supporters mention it.
The 2008 Reds are weaker without Griffey. His OPS in July was over .900 (.917 I think) and for the season has moved close to .800. Who’s going to replace that ?
I wish Junior the best in Chicago, the White Sox are now my AL team. I hope they don’t have him in CF too often, and DH him once or twice a week. If so, he’ll do well.
The 2008 Reds are weaker without Griffey.
Getting his glove out of right field will save more runs than his bat could ever get us.
Andrew,
I feel that you probably can not prove what you said about getting his glove out of right field saving more than his bat could bring in.
So many views on Dunn’s and Griffey’s defense I feel are motivated more by perceptions than statistics. Neither one is a good defensive outfielder any more (though Griffey’s arm and instincts are still there more or less) but they’re not as terrible as people might want to believe
Johnny Bench is a huge A-hole. I could care less what he thinks about anything
GregD, the new-look I put in quotes because that’s what Jocketty was saying. They want to see how the team is with Dunn in left, Bruce in right fulltime and whichever speedyunhurt guy in center.I know it’s not necessarily a new look in the sense of a full out change but it is change.
Good point, Matt, Griffey’s arm is definitely still there. He’s made some great throws this year. Anyway time to move on. Thanks Chad for putting this post at the top and allowing for one more day to say goodbye.
Well our “crowded outfield” doesnt seem so crowded anymore.
we’re gonna rely on hairston and crapperson now.
but at least the can field the ball
Trading them wasn’t terrible. Giving them away for nothing was.
I think nothing is a big harsh.
hmm I see that Griffey has been rated pretty low by many statistical organizations as far as defense goes, but I still hold that many people use perceptions to make opinions that might not be backed up otherwise.
Though I might have been wrong about Griffey, I still don’t think that you could say that his removal from right field will save more runs than his bat could bring in
Does anyone else realize the absurdity of batting Griffey 3rd out of respect? How does a major league manager say something so patently absurd and not get fired?
Is Kearns off the Interstate yet? Wagner was damaged and has a new elbow. Lopez a bust. In retrospect the three players the Reds still have from that deal seem to be accomplishing more than the three they gave up.
I apologize Kearns is hitting .212 following a superstar like .266 16 hr season last year.
Matt:
Yeah, I can. Do a control+F and search for Griffey on this post. He’s pretty clearly -10 to -20 runs below average with his glove in RF and would project to be CONSIDERABLY worse in CF over a whole season. No way his bat is worth 2 wins over a full season. He’s a league average hitter in the NL (will be worse in the AL on translation). An average hitter is worth 1 win over replacement. So if his glove costs us 2 wins (conservatively), his glove kills the small value his bat provides.