Comments on: Bronson Arroyo for Shane Victorino?

By: GregD

GregD — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:47:40 +0000

And I would think moving Arroyo is as much to move his $10M+ salary the next two years as it is anything else.

By: GregD

GregD — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 12:46:36 +0000

Daughtery doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Add good pitching to this team’s HR offense of the past 7=8 years, and this team wins more than they lose. Blaming Dunn an Griffey is a ploy to get e-mail and phone traffic. Say Dunn’s name at the beginning of sportstalk and he could field calls for his entire 3 hour show.

By: Dan

Dan — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:04:19 +0000

Being bad at allowing runs is only part pitching. It’s also part DEFENSE, which the Reds have been below average at for years now.

The biggest statistical difference between the 2007 Devil Rays and the 2008 Devil… oops, I mean Rays… is defense.

Last year the Rays team defensive efficiency was .662 – worst in baseball. (This means that when an opponent put the ball in play — not a BB, not a K, not a HR — he batted .338.)

This year Tampa’s defensive efficiency is .723 – BEST in baseball. (League average seems to be right around .700.)

Here are the Reds defensive efficiency numbers:

2007 – .682 (26th out of 30 in MLB)
2008 – .685 (29th out of 30 in MLB)

That is hugely hugely important, IMO. We’re making it too hard on the pitchers.

By: preach

preach — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 03:47:36 +0000

An outfield of Dunn, Victorino and Bruce gives us a pretty well rounded everyday group of outfielders and frees up some cash. Get me a catcher and some more right handed power (maybe a backup first baseman), I don’t feel too bad about the team.

By: Matt Steele

Matt Steele — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:11:55 +0000

Umm Annapolis, I hope you just forgot to mention Bruce, because if he’s not considered an untouchable than the Reds have no hope at all

By: justcorbly

justcorbly — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:48:42 +0000

#17: I think arguing that this team was set up for homers is giving previous GM’s too much credit. Frankly, I can’t see any evidence that any of them had a plan to develop any particular kind of team. Jocketty might be in a position to do that, now. Whatever direction he takes, though, the key must be pitching, as it must be for any team.

#18: Freel and Hopper haven’t proved their ability to play every day.(And, except for the kids, every player on the team has had ample opportunity to prove himself.) If Victorino can play every day and we can dump all or most of Arroyo’s contract, go for it.

Come to think of it, moving Arroyo, Griffey and Dunn frees up rather a lot of cash.

By: AnnapolisRed

AnnapolisRed — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 22:19:36 +0000

Guys that are untouchable: Votto, Phillips, EE, Volquez, Cueto, Burton. Everybody else should be available.

By: mhopp

mhopp — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 21:45:01 +0000

With the current pitching staff and last year’s batting the Reds would be in the playoff’s. They need people with spark and high baseball IQ, Johhny Cueto and Volquez are examples as well as BP, Jay Bruce and Joey Votto. They have good baseball instincts and can do many things above average or great. How is Victorino any better than Hopper or Freel other than he switch hits? His stats are similar to them so unless he’s a great clutch hitter we’ll be in the same boat except maybe he won’t get hurt as much.
You can never have too many prospects and the Reds do have one good thing…a farm system with good coaching. Keep stocking it and grow your own, they don’t have the $$$ to be doing anything but that. Check out the Rays and Marlins to see what they’ve done. Oh, and a manager(s) with higher IQ’s in the majors wouldn’t hurt that’s for sure as we could name at least 7-8 games that could have been won by not bringing in a mop-up reliever for a close game; and then there’s Crappy Baker’son…duhhhh .188 BA “He’s the fastest…” Busty says. Never mind he can’t get on base.

By: Matt Steele

Matt Steele — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 19:33:00 +0000

Daughtery is not my favorite sportswriter nor do I agree with him most of the time.

There is no correlation to homeruns and winning games. You can find just as many examples of teams that win the world series that hit a ton of homeruns vs teams that hit no homeruns at all.

I understand his overall point, that this team isn’t complete, however he does not back it up very well. A better point would be to look at BARISP or Team OBP or really our pitching staff which has been the main reason why we haven’t been able to win.

From 2003 to last year here is our rank in runs scored

13
10
1
9
7

Now for runs allowed

15th
15th
16th
7th
15th

Our biggest problem is not our offense. It has been pitching for the longest time. We now have some young pitching and despite the frustrations (growing pains?) we have this year… we are very well set to be a contender next year, especially if we bring back Dunn.

We need a leadoff hitter with a good OBP and a much better bullpen and all of our young players to get some experience.

Besides, they act like this team was set up for homeruns. It’s more of a reflection of our stadium. From 2003-2007 we actually hit fewer fly balls than the average NL team, but since we play at a small park, more of them went out lol. (Ok so my last argument might be a bit of a stretch lol)

By: Relient k Car

Relient k Car — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:50:40 +0000

just think we’ll have a real switch hitter too
instead of valentin who thinks he is a switch hitter… or thinks he is flat out a hitter

By: NickP

NickP — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 18:04:20 +0000

Victorino is an average offensive talent for a CF and a very good fielder. He’d look great in a Cincy uni.

By: Tom

Tom — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:46:25 +0000

Doesn’t sound like there is any merit to this deal according to John Fay’s Blog. However, I think we may be turning our noses up at this trade proposal a little too quick. Victorino is offensively an avreage ML CF, with an OBP about ten points above the MLB average. There’s nothing wrong with that given that he can at least provide average defense in CF, which I’m not sure about.

Name BA OBP SLG OPS
MLB CF 08 .265 .330 .412 .743
Victorino 08 .265 .338 .367 .705
Victorino MLB .275 .340 .404 .744
Victorino MiLB .283 .343 .416 .759

Now consider that Arroyo has steadily regressed since his good first year in Cincy for which he was rewarded with a contract that will pay him 9.5M in 09 and 11M in 10. He will most likely be a middle of the rotation starter at best for that salary the next few years.

I’d say getting a solid everyday player and possibly a prospect in return for dumping that salary would be wonderful.

By: justcorbly

justcorbly — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:44:48 +0000

The Reds are paying Arroyo an order of magnitude more than they are paying Thompson. That makes a difference. if you send Arroyo to Louisville, it costs you hundreds of thousands of dollars every day he pitches there.

Daughtery makes sense. The Reds have been losers for most of the last ten years because they have been a bad and incomplete ball club. Perhaps the new management has been pondering all that and trying to figure out which way to go. Prior management — all of them — seemd to have no clear direction in mind for the team, merely trying to grab the odd beg name player, as if that alone would produce a winner.

By: Relient k Car

Relient k Car — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:22:44 +0000

well dusty commented that thompson is close
and in my oppinion he should have stayed up. when arroyo has one bad start the reds keep him. even when arroyo has 20 bad starts we still keep him.
this team makes me sick

By: Kerm

Kerm — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 16:24:35 +0000

Once Arroyo is gone are you going to try and run Josh Fogg out there every fifth day?? As mentioned this trade doesn’t seem to make much sense from the Reds perspective.