Comments on: Big Fat Blind Spot

By: Van

Van — Wed, 14 May 2008 21:34:52 +0000

Nevermind the fact that Patterson could be on base four times a game but as long as the 3-4-5 guys aren’t hitting it doesn’t mean squat.

Comment by Mr. Redlegs — 5/12/2008 @ 11:33 pm

If Patterson were getting on base 4 time a game it would mean quite a lot when you consider that the 7 and 8 spots in the order have been the most productive.

By: GregD

GregD — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:29:59 +0000

That’s interesting Dan. Patterson did lead off a lot during Baker’s 4 years in Chicago, but he never had the most at-bats in the leadoff position in any single season with the Cubs. Did their GM reign him in a little or Baker managed in response to the Chicago media?

By: Chris

Chris — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:27:23 +0000

Great discussion, guys.

Jared’s Pee-Wee quote has to be among the top 5 posts of the year, so far. DEEP into the vault, circa 1984, I believe.

By: GregD

GregD — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:26:31 +0000

The next year(2004), Walker got the most at-bats in the lead-off spot, hitting .247 with a .352obp. Zero SB’s in 3 attempts. Patterson, though, led off almost every day from August 1 until the end of the season. He hit .336 with a .388obp in August, but completely stunk in Sept with .190/.250 avg/obp.

In 2005, it was Hairston batting leadoff more than anyone else. He only hit 261avg/336obp for the season, but at least he had come off a couple of decent obp seasons at Baltimore (.353 in 2003 and .378 in 2004.)

In 2006, Baker finally his type of leadoff hitter. Fast, no power, high average: Juan Pierre. And 4 of his previous 6 seasons, Pierre had OBP’s of 353, 378, 362, and 364. However, it was only 330 (still with no power) in Chicago.

By: dan

dan — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:20:47 +0000

Unfortunately for all of us this is not up for debate with Dusty…in fact Dusty was constantly harassed about batting Patterson lead-off in Chicago, which he has clearly taken to heart.

What’s even more amazing is that Corey Patterson has made it clear that he does not like to bat lead-off. He has been quoted as saying he prefers batting 6th. So that means there is exactly 1 person on the planet who thinks Corey should bat lead-off, and thankfully he’s our manager.

By: GregD

GregD — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:20:09 +0000

Yep, this one continues to confuse me, too. I’ve been defending him quite a bit here and to some friend of mine who are Cubs fans. But it’s hard to have much credibility when they can throw this back in my face.

Another thing about this is that Baker HAS led off with someone like Keppinger before. His first year with the Cubs, Mark Grudzielanek was the leadoff hitter for more than half a season until they acquired Kenny Lofton in late July. After that Grudz hit 2nd. For the season, Grudz hit .314/.366 avg/obp and only 6 SB’s in 8 attempts.

By: Steve Price

Steve Price — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:13:02 +0000

Another thought…
Dusty’s reasoning about a player batting near his career norms may also explain why Hairston has to bat near the top of the order.

His career OBP is .324 and he’s at .306 this year….guess the fact that the past four years it has fallen from a career best (and rather good) .378 to .336 to .270 to .249 only means it’s time to rebound? Surely, it has nothing to do with him being past his prime…

By: Steve Price

Steve Price — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:06:35 +0000

Even Charley O. Finley understood this concept enough to use Herb Washington and Allan Lewis only as “designated runners.” Well…Lewis did get 31 lifetime plate appearances and 48 innings in the field over 6 partial seasons and 156 games. Washington had 0 of each over 2 seasons and 105 games.

By: Jared

Jared — Tue, 13 May 2008 12:31:01 +0000

Francis: Pee-wee listen to reason.
[Pee-Wee cuffs his hand around his ear in a listening motion]
Francis: Pee-wee!
Pee-wee: Sh! I’m listening to reason.

By: Y-City Jim

Y-City Jim — Tue, 13 May 2008 11:47:32 +0000

Baker refuses to listen to reason.

It should be Kepp and Dunner in the 1-2 spot. Patterson shouldn’t even be in the line-up much less leadoff.

By: Y-City Jim

Y-City Jim — Tue, 13 May 2008 11:47:29 +0000

Baker refuses to listen to reason.

It should be Kepp and Dunner in the 1-2 spot. Patterson shouldn’t even be in the line-up much less leadoff.

By: GodlyCynic

GodlyCynic — Tue, 13 May 2008 11:11:39 +0000

Dusty’s response about needing speed in close games makes even less sense from a strategic perspective. Theoretically, if you had a guy whose speed could help change a game but who could not get on base, he’d be best as a reserve player who came in as a pinch-runner late in these close games. In fact, a player like that would work best in tandem with your best PH (assuming your most-used PH was not a speed guy himself but rather a guy like Valentin).

By: jinaz

jinaz — Tue, 13 May 2008 06:16:12 +0000

FWIW, Patterson’s career SB% is 79%. He’s been particularly good in that department the last two years, topping 80% both years.

I still like Patterson as a #7 or #8 hitter because of his defense–at least, I like him better than Freel and Hopper as our CF options. This leadoff stuff is astonishingly dumb, though.

It’s also worth noting that speed is probably best leveraged when your worst hitters are at the plate, because that’s when your run environment is lowest… This speedy guy at the top of the order thing is a remnant from the low run environments of the 60’s, and it’s kind of shocking that this is still thought to be “correct” 40-some years later.
-j

By: rob

rob — Tue, 13 May 2008 05:48:41 +0000

Could have used a picture of my dad for the willfully obtuse link.

By: Dave from Louisville

Dave from Louisville — Tue, 13 May 2008 04:06:25 +0000

I think Walt easily fixes this.

1. Future rosters must not have a “speed” guy with a low OBP.

2. DFA Patterson

3. Trade Griffey

Bring up Bruce, that’s a net (-1) lefty.