Loading ...From the Enquirer:
Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky has been fired less than three years after taking over the position several sources have confirmed to the Enquirer’s Paul Daugherty.
He will be replaced by Walt Jocketty, who previously was the general manager of the St. Louis Cardinals, and who came to Cincinnati this season as special advisor to the president and CEO of the Reds.
Does this really surprise anyone? Doesn’t me. Krivsky’s done some good things for the Reds, continued the building of the farm system, made a couple of good finds (Phillips, Ross); but when Jocketty came to the Reds, IMO, it was just a matter of time.
That said, I am surprised by the timing. Why now?
Not surprised that it happened, but like you said, I didn’t expect it to happen right now. Can we expect some fun roster moves or trades in the next couple of weeks?
Bruuuuuuuuuuuuuuce
I’m surprised. Krivsky really hadn’t done a bad job. He wasn’t a great GM, but I wasn’t ready to call for his head.
When Jocketty was hired, however, the writing was on the wall.
Indeed, only the timing is surprising. Guess Castellini thinks it’s not too late for Jocketty to have an impact this year. Or at least, he wants him in place in time for the July deadline.
That is biz arre. I can only imagine that he got into some dispute with ownership. The timing is just goofy. I don’t like the guy’s public persona and Cheneyesque secrecy, but I was far from ready to call for his firing.
Is this Castellini’s attempt to “show he’s serious”? If so, I think it’s a little tin-eared, frankly.
I agree he needed fired, but what does he know after 21 games he didn’t know back in October?
This is just stupid, IMO.
Wow. Didn’t see that coming right now. I guess Wayne was trying to get things right real quick with DFA’ing Castro. Too little, too late. I get the feeling we are going to see some significant moves soon. Someone pointed out earlier how strange the construction of our roster is. I will be suprised if we don’t have a couple multi-player swaps soon. The only question is, will these moves be intended to improve for this season or next? It is still only April.
I am really freaking scared with Jocketty. Seriously.
We don’t know what was going on behind closed doors so none of us can say what sparked this but the timing is indeed odd. Maybe a good ol’ firing is what this team needed to light a fire under it.
Hopefully he gets Dunn extended ASAP…
Question is: Does Jocketty inherit the sweater, or does Wayne take it with him?
His replacement is no surprise, but definitely the timing. There had to have been some dispute with ownership over some upcoming roster moves. Centerfield and catching just to name a few.
I wouldn’t be surprised with the next week to ten days we’ll see some roster redefined.
If Jocketty’s first move is to extend Dunn that would be a huge first move by him as far as getting the fans on his side.
He needs to work some magic and find some way to work out this roster too.
Acquire an above average hitting catcher and then dumping 2 out of 3 of our current trio would be a nice move…
There’s only like 3 of those left in the majors though.
i was surprised … seems like a real quick hook … saw the handwriting on the wall, but still was much quicker than expected
on a related note, anyone else not surprised that Felip Lopez was John Smoltz’ 3,000th strikeout victim?
Interesting timing, that much we can all agree on… I agree with Brandon that Jocketty’s first move should be signing Dunn long-term. I wonder what roster moves are in store – who’s most likely to be traded (I’m afraid it’ll be EE…despite the fact that we don’t have a good option for third base without him)
I wonder if Krivsky burnt some bridges with other GMs and his pool of prospective business partners has gotten smaller. Some GMs may not want to deal with him which may have resulted in his early release. Similarly, maybe Jocketty has good relationships with other GMs who may be willing to haggle a bit more. Merely speculation…
I hope Jocketty has a relationship with other GMs where they want to give us their good players and take our low-tier players in exchange….that would be a nice relationship.
I’m sure Kearns helped Smoltz, too.
It shows me that Bob is in it to win and he isnt going to be patient about it. I dont know what Walt can do during this season to improve things other than get Bruce & Bailey up here, and get some pop for the bench. I think we could see a trade involving Freel, Javy & a minor leaguer for a young starting catcher. I think Fogg is a goner, Belisle to the pen & Bailey to the rotation. Also Coffey to AAA & Bray brought up. Not sure where we are gonna get some pop off the bench though. I dont think Piazza fits the mold & there aint much else out there. We may have to dip into our minor league talent pool to pry away a good right handed bat for the bench. Someone like Joe Crede who is blocking top 3rd base prospect Josh Fields.
I like the Crede suggestion…
I can\’t lin to it from my blackberry, but Rosecrans has a good take, which I mostly agree with: essentially, Castellini acted way to quickly here, and despite some flaws, Kriv was bringing some desperately-needed stability to the organiztion. Now we\’re on our 4th GM in under 6 years. (Plus the interim team who got us Harang).
Or a trade for Brandon Inge…he can play C haha
I have the solution!!!….
Benito Santiago
I think it came down to all of the bad contracts and extensions. Too much money being spent on players not with the big league club or on players who are who are sitting on the bench.
I think it came down to all of the bad contracts and extensions. Too much money being spent on players not with the big league club or on players who are who are sitting on the bench.
I know I’m again in the minority here, but I thought K did a pretty good job. That’s especially true in the minor league system. When he took over the Reds were the pitts in the farm system. Now we’ve got some pretty good prospects. Picking up Phillips, Volquez ect will help this team for yrs to come. I think C was a little quick with this.
Having said that, is there anyone who can question Jocketty’s credentials as a GM? Of course we all hope this works out, but musical chairs with gm’s is not the way to promote a stable organization.
The timing is odd. Why not fire Krivsky last offseason?
I would venture to guess that the sunk cost contracts had a lot to do with it, also.
Rosecrans heaps the praise regarding the current status of the farm system on Krivsky, but how much of that is his vs. O’Brien. And Votto was a Bowden draftee. Not saying Krivsky wasn’t important to their current ranking, but I also think the jury is still out on how Krivsky’s minor league draftees develop.
I also think it’s premature to lump Arroyo in with the “good” moves. I think the trade to get him was good, but I’m not sold that his long-term extension, paying him $10+ million/year was a wise move.
Was Dusty Baker hired before Jocketty joined the team?
I think the impact on the organization depends on how many changes Jocketty wants to make. If he’s going to re-org, let a lot of folks go, bring in a lot of his old Cardinal folks, then this is a set back.
If he’s just taking the controls and leaving the resources pretty much as is, then not so much of an issue.
As long as Jocketty lets Homer Bailey make one more start in AAA and Bruce stay here until Friday, he will have my full support! I bought tickets to watch Louisville play in Indy this week because Homer is scheduled to pitch here on Friday.
I’m completely undecided on whether this is a good idea or not, but honestly I don’t understand the fear of Jocketty, or the lamenting of the farm system. OBriend should get more credit for the current system than Krivsky, Jocketty did a good job with the A’s system in the 80s, and DID draft some guy called Albert Pujols, plus you can’t argue with the results of his team.
I agree, though, that I really hope this doesn’t mean there’s going to be a major organizational overhaul. That would be a mistake, IMO.
To me, it’s a combination of the bad contracts and the poor roster composition as it relates to center field and the 5th starters spot. 4 center fielders and none of them are named Bruce?? Choosing Belisle over Bailey? Methinks Castellini has a preference for the kids, especially in light of the success of Cueto, Voltron, and Votto. You could make a strong argument that those three have carried this team so far. I’ll be curious to hear Dusty’s reaction as it relates to the roster.
The timing may have something to do with the draft coming up. If Castellini decided he ultimately wanted Jocketty in charge for next offseason, why not get him in there now to take over this year’s draft.
I agree with almost everything you guys are saying:
* O’Brien hasn’t gotten enough credit.
* The timing borders on the nutty.
* Krivsky has a mixed record.
* Jocketty has a good track record.
* The last thing this team needs is a wholesale reorganization.
I’m really suprised that no one has mentioned this yet, but I know why Kriv was fired….. (drum roll) WE GOT SWEPT BY THE FREKIN PIRATES! I’m interested in seeing how this works out. I’ve read how some people are really scared and maybe with good reason but at least this guy has won and been on a winning team and been in control while doing it (Kriv was the #2 man in Minn) so I’m optimistic…
Dusty should go now, too.
I would think Krivsky’s abrasiveness lead to his downfall. His plus’s for targeting breakout talent from other organizations far outweighed the bad contracts.
Look are his relationship with Leatherpants and how that is backfiring this year. Leatherpants owns like 4 current upgrade catchers.
I thought Krivsky did well, by-and-large, and I really like that he seemed to have developed an appreciation for pitchers who can blow it by you.
Kudos also to him for hanging onto Bruce, Bailey and Cueto when he could’ve caved and gotten a Bedard or Blanton.
I’m surprised… and wish him well.
Looking forward now, I really hope that this does NOT signal some sort of crazed “win now” mode that will deplete the system.
Have patience, Bob and Walt! This team is headed a very good direction. We can wait… we can be patient… stick w/ the youth movement and let’s be good for a LONG TIME! I don’t want to sell fhe farm and try to go for it in 2008.
I think that Dave from Louisville has hit the nail on the head. Krivsky’s reticence was taken by most as being aloof. He ticked off some excellent people who were in the scouting department ( Johnny Almaraz anyone? ) when he arrived and I think that he continued to play “silent dictator” through the end of his tenure.
I think that The Robert brought in Jocketty for two reasons: 1. to have uncle Walt peer behind the curtain to see if Wayne was just trying to save his own job and 2. to have a spare GM warming up in the bullpen. I think that Walt snooped around and decided that Wayne was a nice Lieutenant but not a General and told The Robert so.
I’ll put down $20 right now that says that two of Bruce, Votto, Thompson, Roenicke or Maloney are gone before season’s end under Walt’s regime.
Add Bailey to that list…
If your “Uncle Walt” scenario is realistic, it’s sad. You can’t let a possible successor evaluate the incumbent.
McCoy’s blog has an interesting anecdote that supports Dave’s theory (#36).
i think i generally agree with dave (36), i think krivsky was just too weird for the big spotlight. he was good as a talent evaluator/contract guy in minnesota when he could hide under the metrodome.
but he didn’t have the people skills to run the whole show. almarez leaving, clashing with dusty on the roster, other gm’s hating him, the constant cone of silence with the media; he just wasn’t good at building the relationships he needed to.
all that said, the wasted money and games on crap contracts didn’t help.
i think jockety will bring some respectability back to the reds FO, and that’s going to be a welcome change. i’m a little scared that he’ll deal bailey soon, but from what the reporters are saying, he wasn’t pushing for the job, so i would bet he’ll just trim the roster here and there, and wait for a month or two to do anything drastic.
$20
Maloney maybe, but the rest will stay
Promoting Belisle instead of Bailey, not resolving the Hatteburg/Votto Hopper/Freel problem before now were likely the last straws. Especially with Ross coming off the DL.
Next moves Fogg – gone, Bailey up in long relief. Hatteburg traded for anything. Some prospects traded for a right handed bat. Freel traded for minor leaguer.
This move is good for the organization.
IMO, it’s not a concern to me about who’s gone by the end of the season, but what they get in return for the traded players.
For example, I didn’t think Bailey was untouchable, but Bailey + Votto + a 3rd high level prospect was entirely too much for DL Bedard. If Bailey were the centerpiece of a deal with some AA and A-bal prospects for Haren, that’s another story.
Absent the timing, I agree that the move is good for the organization. I never liked Krivsky as a leader, though I did respect his eye for untapped talent.
I’ll throw out a crazy trade idea to resolve two of the issues. Freel, Mike Lincoln and cash to the A’s for Mike Sweeney. Then turn Hatteberg around to the Cardinals for a PTBNL. Promote Bailey and Bill Bray. Move Belisle into the seventh inning job.
Interesting that you bring up Haren. Jocketty was the GM who dealt Haren to the A’s for Mark Mulder.
How’d that work out?
Ouch.
Right, they’re going to eat $10 million on Baker? Are you guys completely freaking nuts?
I think this was a behind-the-doors thing, where maybe Krivsky’s prickly personality got the best of him. I ran into a Cincinnati reporter last fall who said Castellini only hired Krivsky because John Allen made the recommendation, based on the fact Krivsky was Allen’s choice when Dan O’Brien was hired. Allen thought O’Brien was a stiff-collared blip but Lindner liked him because he presented himself well to his board.
But, Castellini didn’t like Krivsky’s people skills and there were lots of fires to be put out along the way. So my guess is perhaps Dusty got frustrated with the lack of roster moves to correct the glaring weaknesses, better known as “not being on the same page,” and that Jocketty might have agreed with Baker (after all, Jocketty was hired as a “consultant”) and Castellini decided enough was enough.
That said, Castellini had to sign off on all contracts, as do most owners, so that can’t be a reason for the dismissal. Everyone has dead money and the Reds’ really isn’t that high. In fact, the Blue Jays have more dead money with Thomas than the Reds do with their combined total of dead money during the Krivsky tenure.
Of course, there’s the old boy school, and that’s no small issue.
Seems pretty straightforward when you look at Krivsky’s moves. He does well with the farm system and with picking stuff off the scrap heaps of other organizations, especially with prospects that other organizations have given up on and cut (Phillips, for example). But when it comes to creating big league contracts and making big league trades, the guy’s in over his head.
I should add that Krivsky is an excellent Assistant GM, and he displayed those talents here, but as a full-on GM, not so much. He just couldn’t hang.
I woulnd’t look too far for a reason.
Mr. K. was fired because the Reds were lousy last year and, even with the personnel changes, they’re playing even worse this year.
The boss is annoyed and decided he’s seen enough.
Consider: Arroyo was a net loss last year and nothing seems to have changed this year. Belisle returns and turns in an embarrassing performance. The catching problem is still a problem. They still have too many outfielders, and not enough good starters.
I’d add Encarnacion to the list of trade bait, along with Freel. I’d try hard to keep Bailey in Kentucky for a few more months, at least. My guess is that he needs the kind of maturity that only comes from getting older.
Wow. Didn’t see that coming right now. I guess Wayne was trying to get things right real quick with DFA’ing Castro. Too little, too late. I get the feeling we are going to see some significant moves soon. Someone pointed out earlier how strange the construction of our roster is. I will be suprised if we don’t have a couple multi-player swaps soon. The only question is, will these moves be intended to improve for this season or next? It is still only April.
Comment by preach — 4/23/2008 @ 11:58 am
HAHA
he only DFA’d Castro so he could pick him up again if he ever got control of another team
KRIVSKY SAYS
“Castro is mine! all mine! he can only play for me!”
lol
A new President always puts in a new cabinet…same thing here. Unfair that Krivsky was released so soon, but Jocketty is a small step up. The big question is when he retires in 5 years, where do we turn? Krivsky would’ve been here another 15 years. Look for Jocketty to pull the triggers Wayne got fired for:
Bruce and Bailey in the bigs
Roster excess (Hatteberg/Freel/Hopper/a catcher) traded for a decent CF (Patterson stays to help replace Dunn and Griffey – Bruce is one man and Stubbs isn’t here yet) leadoff man. Maybe Edwin goes to LF, Bruce to right, we bring up a stud 3b (we have a few of them coming soon). We’ll see…
John Erardi has an article in today’s Enquirer and it has one (to me anyway) very disturbing quote in it…
“Jocketty, 56, is in his 34th year in pro ball. He was fired last October in St. Louis with one year left on his contract because he wasn’t on the same page with the Cardinals’ vice president of player development and scouting, who was a proponent of statistical analysis and had the ear of the team’s ownership.”
Does this mean that Jocketty isn’t a fan of “statistical analysis”?
the Blue Jays have more dead money with Thomas than the Reds do with their combined total of dead money during the Krivsky tenure.
I was planning to make the exact same point. Obviously, the market realities are different, but still. I don’t think Krivsky deserved to be fired, and certainly not when they’re three games under .500 in the season’s first month. They should’ve let him go in January, when Jocketty came on board, or he should have gotten the rest of this season to finish his job. There are some glaring weaknesses on the roster, but I admire that he didn’t panic and overpay for a Joe Blanton or (now injured) Erik Bedard.
I’d imagine he’ll barf if/when Jocketty trades some of those chips this summer.
Also, I love how Paul Daugherty made a poorly argued case for Krivsky’s dismissal on the morning he was axed, after spending the evening watching BP with Castellini.
And, of course, he broke the story on the Enquirer’s Web site. (If read as a quid-pro-quo thing, then it sounds like Castellini wants to see the youngsters already. I’m not sure that’s the best thing for their development, but we’ll see.)