Game Thread: Reds at Pirates — 2008.04.12
Aaron Harang has looked good, the young guys — Johnny Cueto and Edinson Volquez — have been outstanding, and even Josh Fogg has had a good start. Now it’s time for Bronson Arroyo to dazzle us with one of his superb pitching outings.
He’ll be facing the Pittsburgh Pirates — the Sluggin’ Buccos, as someone called them in the game thread last night — and their righthander Ian Snell.
As we said yesterday, if the Reds expect to be a good team this year, these are the series they have to win. That means the good guys need to win today and tomorrow.
It starts today! Discuss it here….
April 12th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Well after last nights horrible offensive terrors :roll: im not confident.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Me either.
Great username, by the way, though I have no idea what it means.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Lineups, first for the good guys:
Patterson CF
Keppinger SS
Griffey RF
Phillips 2B
Dunn LF
Encarnacion 3B
Votto 1B
Valentin C
Arroyo P
April 12th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
For the Pirates:
McLouth CF
Sanchez 2B
Bay LF
LaRoche 1B
Nady RF
Mientkiewicz 3B
Paulino C
Bixler SS
Snell P
April 12th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
I hope there is no rain tonight. The radar shows it is close but maybe it will slide to the north.
I really thought play should have been stopped several times last night when those downpours cut loose. I think the only time they stopped play was when the lightning flashed.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Arroyo needs to show some ability tonight.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
Bixler is a funny name.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Definitely need something out of Arroyo tonight. Maybe he’s feeling the pressure from the young guys pitching so well, and he’ll rise to the occasion.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
I feel pretty confident that Arroyo will turn up the focus and pitch well tonight, especially against a team like Pittsburgh.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Also, the Pirates drafted Arroyo and ended up giving up on him. That has to give him extra motivation everytime he faces them.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
WTF, Patterson should have scored there. I hop Bronson can do better than he has is the past against the bucs.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. Can’t look it up now, but hasn’t Arroyo always pitched well against the pirates? Always seems like they mention how he pitches well against his former club.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Bad baserunning leads to 0 runs. The offense can’t have mistakes like that if they want to win.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Was Patterson really out? It sure looked like his feet hit the plate before the tag.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Bronson 1-3 4.65 ERA vs bucs
April 12th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Votto could have got in front of that ball. He just didn’t get in front of it.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Shows how bad my memory is. Well, Bronson can start dominating the Bucs tonight.
April 12th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Time to wake up the bats, boys. This is starting to get ridiculous. It’s the PIRATES!!!!
April 12th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Time to start clogging the bases, Reds!!!
April 12th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Valentin clogs them as well as anyone!!!
April 12th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Come on, Mr. Leadoff!!! Drive in a run!!!
April 12th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
An average RF would catch that ball most likely. I tell you what after the past week, this series has been depressing through a game and a half.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
The mental mistakes have been terrible tonight, LLM should be able to at least attempt to block that.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Is Dusty ready to explode yet?
April 12th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
LLM certainly should be able to block it with the Jabba the Hutt body of his.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
That was a very nice comeback by Bronson to get out of troublr.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
Tie it up. Kepp!!!
April 12th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Hope this is the beginning of a ton of runs for the Reds!!!
April 12th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Kepp is the man! Great AB, why didn’t patterson score in the first on a ball that wasn’t even hit that hard?
April 12th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
87 pitches now, I hope thy get someone warming quickly.
April 12th, 2008 at 8:57 pm
Votto getting his act together!!!
April 12th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
Feeble dribbler by Jabba the Hutt
April 12th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Rip one, Hattie!!!
April 12th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
I was coming home from Pittsburgh yesterday so I caught the early part of the broadcast on the Pirates network. Now if you want to talk some lame announcers just take a listen to Blass and those other guys. Pretty bad.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
is it a slow start for votto or dusty’s be aggressive advice: votto has yet to take a walk or get an extra-base hit. the two things he was known for, on-base skills and power.
i’m happy to see his bat start to heat up, but he’s going to have trouble OPSing over .600 at this pace.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Nice grab by Junior!!! Stan the Man type of tumbling action!!!
Lincoln should have just put McCloud away with the heat.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
Dunn with the bases loaded. The heartbeat quickens.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Strikeout. Big surprise.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Be the man, Eddie!!!
April 12th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Adam Dunn continues to be pathetic with a runner at third and less than two outs. Inexcusable.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Is there somewhere you can look up league leaders in Left On Base? The Reds have to be leading the league. I’ve never seen anything like this.
Bases loaded with one out and can’t even push one run across.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Reds choke on the clogged bases.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Y-City-I agree with you, Patterson should have definitely scored in the first inning and no excuse for Votto to let that ball by him. This is depressing. We aren’t playing the Mets for christ sake.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Maybe that’s the problem. The bases are too clogged, so the Reds can’t score. Makes perfect Dusty logic.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Shades of when Tony Perez played 3B.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
EeE
April 12th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
If you didn’t know, Corona Extra is the official sponsor of the timeout.
Everything has to have an official sponsor these days. They have to pay George Grande’s contract. Not to mention Jeff Brantley.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Lets go, Reds!!! Lets leave some more runners on base this inning.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Jimmy:
I looked and couldn’t find anything, but interestingly enough the 1976 Cincinnati Reds own the national league record for most runners left on base in a season. Also of note is the major league record for most runners left on base in a shutout is 16. Reds were close last night with 12.
http://www.baseball-
almanac.com/recbooks/left_on_base_records.shtml
April 12th, 2008 at 9:46 pm
Anyone else annoyed by how long the home-plate umpire takes?
April 12th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Valentin is on this team for his offense, right?
April 12th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Matt-Yes
I know Hopper screwed up the bunt last night, but he is pretty good at bunting for hits.
Sound the sirens, Weathers is warming up in the bullpen.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Ol’ Norris can bunt tonight.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Unfreaking believable
April 12th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
And yes, Matt, I agree about the ump.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
That was a terrible play by the Pirate first baseman. Hopper would have been safe even if it was a good throw.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
I feel a big hit by Keppinger coming right now.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
or maybe not. Crap!
April 12th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
If Hopper hadn’t over slid the bag, the Reds could have left the bases loaded again.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
2 more left on. Ridiculous. Can’t even score against this crappy Pirate bullpen.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Time for all the EEE fans to show up and tell us how he isn’t that bad at third.
April 12th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Java Man is on.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
Good grief. Let’s talk in Sept.
EE was just fine last year, he’ll be just fine this year. Unless you want to base your opinion of a guy on ten games.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
edwin is playing his way to louisville again. maybe they should just start him there every year. getting a good 5 months out of him would be good and he’d be way cheaper.
he could be like a bizarro thirdbase roger clemens.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
I suppose you’d rather have Freel at third?
Lay off the kid. He has made huge strides,but he’s going thru a bad stretch.
I guess you would have wanted to bench Mike Schmidt when he led the league in errors early in his career.
EE is still young. Young players have ups and downs. Why lose patience so early?
April 12th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
I’m sick of EE’s errors, too, but he’s the Reds best option for 3B by far. I’m willing to be patient with him.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Actually he is EEEE now.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Unfortunately, that’s funny, Jim.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Well, we may not leave any on base this inning.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Crap, Phillips.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Did we just lose two straight to the Pirates?
April 12th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Dusty! Your aggressive offense stinks!
April 12th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Well, at least Votto looks like he is starting to get his stroke back. As soon as Bruce gets the Dusty philosophy out of his head lets get him up here because I think Patterson’s stats are beginning to drop to their normal level.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
I wouldn’t say he was that great last year, but you are right he is the best option. I just get tired of seeing a guy so talented make errors on routine plays. That and the fact he is hitting about a buck fifty right now.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
We could be the Tigers.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
By the way, in their third full season in the majors Schmidt committed 24 errors to EE 16, but Schmidt his 38 home runs compared to EE 16 so no I don’t think you can compare them.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
because the “it’s early, don’t critisize anyone” argument gets old, for me at least, can the advancers of that argument give me a number of losses at which point i can complain about crappy playing?
is it only going to be okay to critisize people after the season? after they get shipped out?
i never said we should cut EdE, but the guy freaking stinks right now, and he and Dunn ARE losing games for the reds Right Now. when september comes around, if we’re two games back, remember these two against the pirates.
And I’ll just throw this out there. I’ve never bought into the whole “losing is an attitude” thing, not really. But saying that it’s early, don’t sweat it, that’s a losing attitude.
I’ve lived in Boston for the last 6 years, and let me tell you, fans there would be screaming about EdE after 4 errors and no hitting through ten games. It’s a really tough place to play, and a lot of players can’t hack it. But they also win a lot of games. Who know’s if it’s connected, but i’ve never heard someone here say that it’s too early to start worrying about winning games.
April 12th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
I didn’t intend to say that EE shouldn’t be criticized. I was trying to say not to give up on him.
I’m as bothered by these losses as anyone. And feel free to blast away at EE. But I get sick and tired of “send him to AAA” or “put him at 1B” when EE is the best option at 3B we have. He has demonstrated in the past that he can play. I’m willing to give the kid a chance.
April 12th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Boston? They win a couple of times in a century and all of a sudden, we want to be like them. No thanks. They have fans that don’t know a thing about baseball, so don’t give me this “Boston fans wouldn’t put up with errors” nonsense. It’s a complete non-sequitir that has nothing to do with the situation we’re discussing.
April 12th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Adam Dunn is losing games for the Reds? That’s crap. He’s getting on base almost half the time.
He’s the best hitter we’ve got. If this power-less stretch came in July no one would notice, but it’s at the beginning of the season, so it’s amplified.
But I’ll take an OPB of over 400 while he’s slumping. At least he’s contributing.
EE, on the other hand, I’m sick of the errors. What would you suggest we do with him, Al? And if it’s getting him out of the lineup, exactly who will replace him that will be any better?
April 12th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Al, I could probably be brought around to your point of view. I’m sick of the errors.
But your post #77 is full of red herrings. I’m not sure what any of it has to do with Edwin Encarnacion.
I really wish there was something we could do, but I don’t know what it is. We don’t have anyone else.
April 13th, 2008 at 12:21 am
I’ll try to respond in order. I’m not giving up on EdE, I just said that he’s playing his way back to Louisville right now, which is what he did last year. This is the exact same thing we saw last year, maybe it’s winterball that’s messing him up, I don’t know, but how long do you think he’s going to last at this pace?
As for the boston thing, sure we have crappy fans up here, plenty of them, but my experience here is that fans tolerate losing a lot less than fans in cincy. and as far as being like boston, in the last decade they’ve averaged 91.6 wins, and have 6 playoff appearances and 2 WS wins. I guess i think i’d be pretty pleased if we could do that over the next ten years.
I don’t think Dusty should be tinkering with Dunn’s approach because it’s probably too late for that, but i do generally agree with him that Dunn is on this team for his slugging not his OBP. his OBP is great, and i agreewith ragtag that it’s nice to have something while you slump, but how many high OBP no slugging guys do you know that make 13 mil?
I think Dunn is losing us games, or at least contributing to losing them, by not knocking guys in, which is what i think we’re paying him most of that money to do.
I’m certainly not trying to throw out red herrings, I guess i’m just confused by the vehement defense of players who are obviously not pulling their weight right now. It’s not a be all end all indictment, but i want the reds to win, and when i see things that i think are causing them not to, i’m probably going to complain about it.
April 13th, 2008 at 12:25 am
as far as EdE being the best we have at 3b, that’s a valid point for sure, but only because of the injury to Gonzo. When’s he due back anyway?
April 13th, 2008 at 4:28 am
While EE is our best option, and he will be fine later on, he is killing us in the spot he is at now. We need to move Kepp to leadoff, Votto to 2nd, Patterson to 6th, and EE to 7th or 8th. He may get out of this funk, but it is really hard to watch.
As far as Dunn, I think at times he is putting a better swing on things, just hitting at people. However, he just can’t hit well with guys on base, and that hasn’t just been a problem this year. I would like to know the stat of the % of HR’s he has hit as a Red with nobody on base. I am guessing it is pretty high.
April 13th, 2008 at 5:01 am
Dunn is losing games for us? If you mean to say he is not winning games for us right now, I concur wholeheartedly. As for Annapolis guy, I think he must live in a 3 bedroom house with “Rick from MD” and “Reds Fan from MD” Sorry, it is either the same guy, or there is something in the water in Maryland.
April 13th, 2008 at 7:59 am
Pete-What in the world did I say that was so outlandish? No I am not Rick from MD or Reds Fan from MD. I think Reds Fan from MD said on here once before that he was from Potomac and my name is not Rick so….
April 13th, 2008 at 10:30 am
I think the Red Sox’ success has a lot more to do with a $130M payroll, a smart front office, Manny and Ortiz than the fans’ demanding attitude.
April 13th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
obviously. and i admitted that i didn’t really buy into it, and that i had no idea how much it could be connected. but i think that being a “tough place to play,” because of unforgiving fans who demand to win, does have at least something to do with it. maybe not, just my impression.