Loading ...Let’s be honest: this Reds team is the sorriest collection of “hitters” that we’ve seen in Cincinnati in a long time. Day after day, this bunch is lucky to get two or three hits. I’m tired of it.
Here’s hoping Matt Belisle can throw a shutout today. It might be our only chance of winning.
Discuss the pitching and defense here in today’s game thread.
There is no way this can last much longer. There are too many guys that are way overdue.
One thing about Ross, obviously he has been brutal at the plate, but does he get any credit for the outstanding starting pitching to date? Has his calling of a game been a key for our great start on the mound? Just a thought and I don’t know the answer.
Can we win today?
Lineups?
Found ‘em:
Phillies
Jimmy Rollins SS
Shane Victorino RF
Chase Utley 2B
Ryan Howard 1B
Wes Helms 3B
Greg Dobbs LF
Aaron Rowand CF
Carlos Ruiz C
Freddy Garcia P
Reds
Ryan Freel CF
Scott Hatteberg 1B
Brandon Phillips 2B
Josh Hamilton RF
Adam Dunn LF
Javier Valentin C
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Alex Gonzalez SS
Matt Belisle P
At least Gonzalez isn’t hitting fifth today.
Anyone else having trouble with MLB.tv?
Not me.
From C. Trent Rosecrans blog:
“Junior is available to pinch-hit today. Jerry said he could have started, but with an off day yesterday, it’s just as well to give him the two days off in a row.”
What the?? Hasn’t Griffey missed several days? And isn’t tomorrow an off day?
Rough start by Belisle. Are we out of it down two?
Narron seems really bad at offering cogent explanations for his actions – even if the actions were justifiable to begin with. He should testify in front of Congress for practice.
…or Rosecrans just boofed that quote.
well, the Phillies already scored 2 runs. Looks like we can’t win today either.
This whole pitching with absolutely no offense doesn’t seem to be working any better than all offense with no pitching… But at least with an offense you thought there was a chance the Reds could come back.
and it was a heck of a lot more fun.
Chris, both are possible, but with the rationalizations Narron has been vocalizing lately, it wouldn’t surprise me if your first comment was the answer.
And at least with the offense, it seemed you could make a splash with average pitching, which didn’t seem that far away…a surprise like Elizardo and a bounce back from Milton.
Now, what is going to help the offense?
The offense shouldn’t be this bad (on paper), but I don’t know…it’s like the Reds just don’t care about winning. Makes it hard for the fans to care too…
Reds are scoring 3.9 runs per game – on pace for all of 639 for the season. That\’s a 110 run drop from last year, and 180 fewer than 2005.
You have to go back to 1997 to find anything comparable (650 runs). That team overachieved and lost 86 games. That was the year where everybody got hurt except Willie Greene and Bret Boone – and Boone OPSed 630 for the year – and that team was still more productive than this one, so far.
I strongly disagree with that statement CeeKer. Nobody wants to win more than the Reds players and management. To think otherwise is silly.
Chris: That pretty much sums up this year’s team, pathetic on offense. 3.9 runs a game, but the Reds are more of 1, 2, 1 run machine and then “break out” for 10 in a single game, then back to scoring 1 or 2 runs…
I think it’s more likely that the offense will turn it around than the starting pitching will keep it up.
It’s too nice of a day to be at the computer and getting frustrated with the Reds… I’m out…
Hope I come back to a victory for the Reds…but I won’t be holding my breath.
Bases loads for Helms. 0 outs. Infield is playing for 2 — frankly, I don’t think this club can afford to concede the 4th run. They can’t score 4.
Nice defense by Dunn and EE – and Thom giving credit to both. Wow.
Hey, Thom calls them like he sees them. You don’t have to agree with everything he says, but at least he has an opinion. He beats the hell out of George Grande.
One bleepin’ hit? Unbelievable.
Jeff Brantley just said a four run deficit seems like an awfully big mountain to climb, the way the Reds have been hitting. I have to agree.
Chris, I’m starting to come around on your thinking about the offense. Only a couple of hits the past few games.
Still – its not even three weeks into the season.
The “on pace” stuff doesn’t really matter at this point. I mean A-Rod’s on pace for 122 HRs and 314 RBI. That’d be some kind of record.
Keep in mind the Reds aren’t the only team struggling offensively. The reigning AL Champs are batting .234/.305/.381.
I’ll be fully on board in late June if the trend continues.
And I agree that this team isn’t fun to watch at all. At least those offensive-minded teams could bash their way out of trouble.
Yeah, they didn’t win any championships, but this team isn’t going to win anything either. And they’re excruciating to watch.
Krivsky has screwed this organization up with this pitching and defense stuff. It’s a fine philosophy, unless you get rid of all the hitting. You have to have SOME hitting to back up the pitching and defense.
And while I’m ranting, “pitching” includes the bullpen, and Krivsky has done nothing to improve this bullpen…other than re-arrange deck chairs on the Titanic.
Nate, the only mistake Krivsky has made is telling the fans this is a win now strategy when clearly it isn’t. This is a win in ‘08 strategy: stock pile relievers to trade come July, ride out Milton’s contract, etc., etc. We can buy another bat next year with the 9 million saved on Milton’s deal AND Votto and Bailey will be up.
It is early in the season, but my concern is that this trend goes back to the 2nd half of last season.
Tell me how Votto and Bailey are going to score more runs than the current lineup?
come on sac fly – no, wait
Two hits in the same inning – wow!
Still beating the sac fly drum about Dunn. When a sac fly does no real good here – down 4.
I’ve been thinking about the possibilities of the ‘08 roster also? Where would the extra bat play/who gets moved to make room for the offense?
Infield is Votto, Phillips, AGon, EdE
Outfield seems to be Dunn, Freel and Griffey (sorry, can’t pencil in Hamilton yet, but I’d love to!)
Perhaps catcher, where the FA’s will be Posada, I-Rod, and Barrett?
Welsh is giving some great analysis today. I think Thom, for all his silliness, is pushing Chris to better work.
…ah, there it is, the running count of Dunn’s Ks. Thanks, Thom.
Chris,
Votto is supposed to be an offensive upgrade over our current 1B platoon.
Bailey, while not producing RBI – though my bet is he gets 4 next year – is a huge improvement over Milton, and the need to score 7 runs a game when he pitches will be cut in half.
Don’t forget the added 9 million if the ownership reinvests Milton’s salary into next year’s payroll. There are some decent bats available this offseason for that kind of cash
Yeah, I guess a run when you’re down four doesn’t matter. We should call it an early day. Let’s just go back into the club house. Either that or just swing for the fence everytime up. Silly me thinking we should manufacture runs. What was I thinking?
Who are some of the offseason FA’s available?
2,900 career at-bats, 12 sac flies for Dunn (from C. Trent)
Absolutely amazing and ridiculous.
Starting pitchers
John Smoltz (41)
Carlos Zambrano (27)
Curt Schilling (41)
Jason Jennings (29)
Freddy Garcia (32)
Kenny Rogers (43)
Mark Buehrle (29)
Jon Lieber (38)
Bartolo Colon (35)
Joe Kennedy (29)
Tomo Ohka (32)
John Thomson (34)
Kip Wells (31)
Wade Miller (31)
Livan Hernandez (33)*
Randy Wolf (31) – $9MM club option for ‘08
Paul Byrd (37) – $8MM club option for ‘08
Jeff Weaver (31)
Tom Glavine (42) – $9MM player option for ‘08
Kris Benson (33) – $7.5MM club option for ‘08
Jaret Wright (32)
David Wells (45)
Eric Milton (32)
Kyle Lohse (29)
Matt Clement (33)
Rodrigo Lopez (32)
Josh Fogg (31)
Byung-Hyun Kim (29)
Odalis Perez (31) – $9MM club option for ‘08
Brett Tomko (35) – $4.5MM mutual option for ‘08
Closers
Mariano Rivera (38)
Jason Isringhausen (35) – $8MM club option for ‘08
Bob Wickman (39)
Francisco Cordero (33)
Armando Benitez (35)
Eric Gagne (32)
Todd Jones (40)
Jorge Julio (29)
Middle relievers
Scott Linebrink (31)
Kerry Wood (31)
1. Votto isn’t really going to be an upgrade over the current guys, at least in his rookie year. The point is that he can probably (he’s stinking things up at AAA so far) give the same performance at a cost savings.
2. Have you been watching Milton’s starts? Milton is not the reason this team is losing games. As a #5, he’s actually doing pretty well. Regardless, 639 runs isn’t going to get it done, Milton or no Milton.
3. The problem is offense, and nothing is going to change between this year and next. This team needs to score at least 725 runs to contend, even with good pitching (and I think it’s unrealistic to count on the current great rotation work to continue all year).
Yeah, I don’t get that comment either. Down four in the fourth inning is better than being down three? So a three run homer is better than four sacrifice fly’s? Is your name Adam Dunn?
David, the point about sac flies isn’t that you don’t take it – but that it isn’t the goal. Dunn should’ve been swinging for the fences there, and sac flies shouldn’t be mentioned.
Unless you think the Reds have a real chance to pile on a bunch of runs. I’d be happy to take that action.
Having a problem copy/paste here’s a link scroll down the page a bit –
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/03/index.html
Chris – you are contradicting yourself, if the rotation won’t keep it up then it is important to have Bailey.
When you have a limited offense, you need to score anyway possible.
Finally, again it’s only three weeks in. The projections aren’t accurate at this point. Unless you are basing your projections on some other indicators.
Anyway, enough Reds for today I have to study. Goodtimes. Goodtimes.
Belisle up to 90 pitches – batting 2nd in the 5th. Do you pinch hit with Hopper?
I think you have to consider it. Maybe if the first guys gets on.
Has everyone given up?
That was close.
Ed and deliver.
Ed should have destroyed that one.
In the hole already.
Yes, only 3 weeks in, but a carryover of the problems from the last half of last year.
I don’t see much of note in the offensive free agent list, except for the catchers already noted, unless the team is going to make a play at Andruw Jones.
This is not typical Eddie. He is missing pitches that he should be killing.
Did Phillips miss the plate?
EE showing signs of life, but BP thrown out at the plate. 4-2.
When Bailey gets called up in 2010, he had better be the next Roger Clemens.
Babe Ruth, more like it – he needs to hit too.
So guys make it the majors quicker even if they have arm surgery.
Phillips definitely missed the plate. Could never slip his hand in there.
How come the bullpen is only effective when we are losing?
Brook Jacoby will be gone by the all-star break if this keeps up. The hitting coach can’t go up there and hit, but when you have such a demoralizing, team-wide slump, it falls on the hitting coach to help bail them out.
I don’t have enough information to blame this on Brook Jacoby, but doesn’t it seem like the team is MUCH more impatient at the plate than last year?
Small sample size, and based entirely on my eyes…so there are your caveats. Just wondering….
That throw to second by LLM may be the worst throw I’ve ever seen by a major league catcher. Pure little league.
I was thinking the same thing, John. To a great extent, the batting coach’s job is to shorten slumps. Jacoby ain’t getting that done.
EE w/ a throwing error. He’s cut.
Maybe the Reds are not more impatient this year…we just have had to listen to Thom complain about it this year, and he wasn’t around last year.
Double Switch. EdE benched for the error?
I saw that bad throw coming a mile away. EE had a hard time getting it out of his glove, and I just knew he was going to airmail it trying to hurry the throw.
Narron’s pulling EE in the double switch.
He was the last batting, but it looks bad.
Who is LLM?
LLM = the Latin Love Machine = Javier Valentin
Say good-bye to Edwin Encarnacion. We may never see him in a Reds uniform again.
lol
On Patience:
Last year, in pitches seen per plate appearance, Dunn ranked 4th, Felipe Lopez 7th, Freel 8th, Kearns 9th, Hatte 16th.
This year, it’s Freel 20th, Dunn 21st, Jr. 27th, Gonzalez 28th, EE 33rd.
So yeah, it’s fair to say there’s a difference.
I’m sure that we can get another middle reliever or two for EE. Is Don Carmen still playing?
EE was pulled because he made the last out but the EE fan club has got to admit that so far he has stunk at the plate and in the field.
Whatever Jacoby’s strategy is, I’m sure that it is more insightful than when Tony Perez was hitting coach.
Perez’s mantra was “see the ball, hit the ball” – LOL.
Chambliss got a raw deal, IMO.
According to Thom, they always swing at the first pitch.
I thought double switches were primarily reserved for when you are ahead. Down 3 runs, not sure how Castro helps you close that gap.
Castro with an error at 3b. Pull him.
Now Thom’s going to beat the defensive drum. He now says “the numbers do not lie.” Remember that the next time he dismisses some stat that doesn’t match his expectations.
Welsh counters with a sample size argument.
Thom backpeddling. Only conceding that SS is better.
Thom doesn’t understand sample size. At all.
Wow, I didn’t realize the Reds were so patient under Chambliss.
Did he catch on as a hitting coach with anyone else?
BP’s defense is overrated.
A-Gon’s defense is overrated.
This is not a “pitching and defense” team. Other than the two bullpen blowups vs Houston, it has been a pretty good pitching team on the whole.
We’ve lived through “pitch to contact”, living through “pitching and defense.” I’m still waiting/hoping for the good “pitching and offense” team.
Orr..”pitching and hitting” team.
Pitching and offense — there’s a novel idea.
Keep waiting, GregD. That’s not how they did it in Minnesota (at least accoridng to conventional wisdom).
Ha! Yeah, I want one of those pitching and offense teams. You know what they call those teams?
Champions.
Of the ‘07 Reds, which would consistenyly be 7 or 8 hitters (or 9 in the AL) in a decent lineup? I have:
David Ross
Javier Valentin
Chad Moeller
Scott Hatteberg
Juan Castro
Edwin Encarnacion
Alex Gonzalez
Enrique Cruz
Norris Hopper
Borderline:
Jeff Conine
Brandon Phillips
LOL, I guess a better question would be who would hit 1 through 6. Pitiful.
7-2 Phils, and now Wes “Babe” Helms hits a double in the gap.
I’m getting back on the road again. I’ll listen to the end of it on XM.
Let’s bring back Eric Davis’ favorite hitting coach, Billy Demars.
“Thom doesn’t understand sample size. At all.”
Thom says size doesn’t matter.