What is there to say??? At least we didn’t get shut out??? This is so pathetic… What a painful way to end a season that started out so damn well and carrued all the way until a few weeks ago when they were tied for 1st in the Central.
I know everyone makes the arguments for Dunn, good OPS, just streaky. I just don’t like the guy on the team. I like a Reds team that gets on base and runs a lot. Dunn moseys his way to fly balls, meanders his way around the base paths, and is simply an all-around no-hustle, I’m only here to try to bash the shit out of the ball kind of player. We got rid of his buddy already, he has always said he wants to play for houston, and he appears very unhappy here. I think we should try to pick up Soriano when he becomes a free agent this year (as he will). If we can’t, keep Dunn, if we can, deal Dunn for some #1 pitching prospect. Soriano would be my type of Red. Can steal a hell of a lot of bases and would be a much better producer than Dunn on this team. I see no reason why that couldn’t happen either.
Then again name we a losing team that steals a lot of bases. No one runs anymore. Ricky Henderson SB record is more untouchable than Dimaggio’s hit record.
The whole team went into a hitting slump at the same time. I think to combat this in the future, the Reds should invest in a proven, season long .300 hitter. The Big Red Machine always had Rose out there and he never seemed to wear down. This team looks tired.
BTW, by now we can safely say that Griffey is a proven slow healer.
.300 hitters come in all sizes and shapes and not all of them are pretty. You mention pete rose, and sure, the guy could hit .300 like few others, but consider this:
it’s not like the more advanced metrics didn’t apply to older players just because people didn’t pay attention to them. we need good hitters.
the two players that are supposed to be our best hitters, the classic 3-4 guys that you build a strong lineup around, Dunn and Jr, this year put up a combined OPS of .834.
That’s not going to cut it. in fact, for where those two should be, it flat out stinks.
Jr. is washed up but I don’t mind him finishing his career in Cincy. As far as Dunn, I think I’ve made it clear that there are better options out there as far as getting value out of the dollar.
Exactly Chris… no one runs anymore. If you have 4 guys who can all steal 30 bases a year, that pays dividends when the lead runner scores instead of being stranded at 3rd by innings end. You have to subtract the losses from being caught stealing, but the net value of the stolen base is phenomenal… creates more RISP situations. If you want to see a winning ballclub that used this tactic… see this years Reds team in the month of April. Lopez and Phillips were stealing bases left and right, then they all of a sudden stopped and so did the wins. Not the only factor that caused this, surely, but it did play a part. GO BACK TO GANG BUSTING AND BASE BURNING! IT WINS BALLGAMES!
Comment about Casey… he is one of those clubhouse plagues, he plagued the Reds, then the Pirates, now the Tigers. Another example… Ryan Franklin and Rheal Cormier. The Phillies weren’t so much on the map, then they gave us their trash and have since surged to a viable playoff contender.
Don’t get me wrong… Casey is a good hitter and a great guy from what I understand, but he is no lucky charm. His biggest problem is speed. THe guy has trouble scoring from 2nd on a base hit, if you can’t do that in most cases, it is that manay more hits tougher to win.
I agree we don’t need Casey (not fair to call him a plague, though), but speed is the least of his problems. Health is his issue. When he’s 100%, we’ve seen him hit a lot of doubles and a respectible amount of homers, a la ‘99 and ‘04. When he’s not healthy, his doubles turn to singles and his HRs into fly-outs.
As for Dunn, I think we’re getting pretty decent value. $9.25 mm this and next year, club option for ‘08. For comparison’s sake, Konerko signed for $60 over 5 last winter. Soriano will get more than that. I’ll take Dunn over either, esp. considering the contracts involved.
you’re kidding right? you’d take dunn’s .236/.367/.507 line over konerko’s .311/.382/.545. and don’t forget that he’s playing in probably the toughest division in baseball for pitching.
the tigers and twins are #1 and #3 in terms of team ERA, it’s not just the starters. Ever notice how most of Dunn’s homers come against relievers? Yeah, that doesn’t happen so much over there.
The royals are bad enough to make up for a lot of that, but it’s still a tougher division to hit in, and konerko’s still crapping all over dunn this year.
Al, I would I take Dunn over Konerko. Konerko has the edge this year, but I want the guy with the track record. That’s Dunn. 248/383/518 career line (pre 06) versus Konerko’s 279/349/488.
I also want the younger guy, which of course is Dunn (26 versus 30). People forget how about Dunn’s youth, but he is actually younger than Ryan Howard.
And as I mentioned above, Dunn’s contract is much better. We have Dunn’s prime years tied up, but no obligation once he’s on the wrong side of 30. Meanwhile, the Sox have a 30 year-old, immobile 1B/DH signed for another four years. Maybe he will age gracefully. But that’s a risk I wouldn’t want to take.
I mentioned the Reds needed a proven .300 hitter. I said that in the context that the Reds’ bats have went south the last two weeks and it would be useful to have a guy in the starting lineup that was not prone to long slumps. I didn’t even bring Casey’s name up. Don’t drag me into that argument.
Personally, I liked the guy, (in his day) but he’s not coming back to Cincy, mostly for all the reasons you guys mentioned. Health, age and a big paycheck are major problems for the Mayor. I don’t see his returning to the Reds as even being an issue anymore. Its not going to happen.
2009 stats: Sarasota 2-1 8 Games 8 Games Started 42.1 IP 4.89 ERA 1.44 WHIP
Carolina 3-2 6 Game 6 Game Started 36 2/3 IP 2.95 ERA 1.09 WHIP
Louisville 2-2 5 Game 5 Game Started 29 IP 2.48 ERA 1.21 WHIP
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I thought Milton was shelved for the remainder of the season. From the looks of the 1st inning, he should have been.
When it takes only one out to give up more than the Bengals in 2 1/2 quarters, it might be time to call it a season.
Good grief. Stop this season, I want to get off.
Seems like the Reds are laying down on us now.
The medical staff cleared Milton to play today. Good call. I’m still betting he needs TJ surgery and it just hasn’t been diagnosed properly yet.
What is there to say??? At least we didn’t get shut out??? This is so pathetic… What a painful way to end a season that started out so damn well and carrued all the way until a few weeks ago when they were tied for 1st in the Central.
I know everyone makes the arguments for Dunn, good OPS, just streaky. I just don’t like the guy on the team. I like a Reds team that gets on base and runs a lot. Dunn moseys his way to fly balls, meanders his way around the base paths, and is simply an all-around no-hustle, I’m only here to try to bash the shit out of the ball kind of player. We got rid of his buddy already, he has always said he wants to play for houston, and he appears very unhappy here. I think we should try to pick up Soriano when he becomes a free agent this year (as he will). If we can’t, keep Dunn, if we can, deal Dunn for some #1 pitching prospect. Soriano would be my type of Red. Can steal a hell of a lot of bases and would be a much better producer than Dunn on this team. I see no reason why that couldn’t happen either.
I like a Reds team that gets on base and runs a lot.
There’s a difference between what we like and what will win ballgames. Name me a winning team that steals a lot of bases – in the last 15 years.
Then again name we a losing team that steals a lot of bases. No one runs anymore. Ricky Henderson SB record is more untouchable than Dimaggio’s hit record.
Maybe for Fan Appreciation Day the Reds could give a crap!
The whole team went into a hitting slump at the same time. I think to combat this in the future, the Reds should invest in a proven, season long .300 hitter. The Big Red Machine always had Rose out there and he never seemed to wear down. This team looks tired.
BTW, by now we can safely say that Griffey is a proven slow healer.
I think to combat this in the future, the Reds should invest in a proven, season long .300 hitter.
Like this guy?
Not that this means anything, but this is interesting:
Tigers w/o Casey: 70-35
Tigers w/ Casey: 19-25
Pirates w/ Casey: 40-66
Pirates w/o Casey: 23-21
Pretty funny.
.300 hitters come in all sizes and shapes and not all of them are pretty. You mention pete rose, and sure, the guy could hit .300 like few others, but consider this:
pete rose OBP (‘68-’77)
.391, .428, .385, .373, .382, .401, .385 .406, .404, .377
it’s not like the more advanced metrics didn’t apply to older players just because people didn’t pay attention to them. we need good hitters.
the two players that are supposed to be our best hitters, the classic 3-4 guys that you build a strong lineup around, Dunn and Jr, this year put up a combined OPS of .834.
That’s not going to cut it. in fact, for where those two should be, it flat out stinks.
Jr. is washed up but I don’t mind him finishing his career in Cincy. As far as Dunn, I think I’ve made it clear that there are better options out there as far as getting value out of the dollar.
Exactly Chris… no one runs anymore. If you have 4 guys who can all steal 30 bases a year, that pays dividends when the lead runner scores instead of being stranded at 3rd by innings end. You have to subtract the losses from being caught stealing, but the net value of the stolen base is phenomenal… creates more RISP situations. If you want to see a winning ballclub that used this tactic… see this years Reds team in the month of April. Lopez and Phillips were stealing bases left and right, then they all of a sudden stopped and so did the wins. Not the only factor that caused this, surely, but it did play a part. GO BACK TO GANG BUSTING AND BASE BURNING! IT WINS BALLGAMES!
Comment about Casey… he is one of those clubhouse plagues, he plagued the Reds, then the Pirates, now the Tigers. Another example… Ryan Franklin and Rheal Cormier. The Phillies weren’t so much on the map, then they gave us their trash and have since surged to a viable playoff contender.
Don’t get me wrong… Casey is a good hitter and a great guy from what I understand, but he is no lucky charm. His biggest problem is speed. THe guy has trouble scoring from 2nd on a base hit, if you can’t do that in most cases, it is that manay more hits tougher to win.
I agree we don’t need Casey (not fair to call him a plague, though), but speed is the least of his problems. Health is his issue. When he’s 100%, we’ve seen him hit a lot of doubles and a respectible amount of homers, a la ‘99 and ‘04. When he’s not healthy, his doubles turn to singles and his HRs into fly-outs.
As for Dunn, I think we’re getting pretty decent value. $9.25 mm this and next year, club option for ‘08. For comparison’s sake, Konerko signed for $60 over 5 last winter. Soriano will get more than that. I’ll take Dunn over either, esp. considering the contracts involved.
you’re kidding right? you’d take dunn’s .236/.367/.507 line over konerko’s .311/.382/.545. and don’t forget that he’s playing in probably the toughest division in baseball for pitching.
Off the top of my head:
Dunn faces Carpenter, Clemens, Pettite, Oswalt, Sheets, Capuano, Zambrano.
Konerko faces Santana, Liriano, Sabathia, Westbrook, and all Detroit’s guys (Verlander, Bonderman, et al).
It’s a pretty close call.
the tigers and twins are #1 and #3 in terms of team ERA, it’s not just the starters. Ever notice how most of Dunn’s homers come against relievers? Yeah, that doesn’t happen so much over there.
The royals are bad enough to make up for a lot of that, but it’s still a tougher division to hit in, and konerko’s still crapping all over dunn this year.
Al, I would I take Dunn over Konerko. Konerko has the edge this year, but I want the guy with the track record. That’s Dunn. 248/383/518 career line (pre 06) versus Konerko’s 279/349/488.
I also want the younger guy, which of course is Dunn (26 versus 30). People forget how about Dunn’s youth, but he is actually younger than Ryan Howard.
And as I mentioned above, Dunn’s contract is much better. We have Dunn’s prime years tied up, but no obligation once he’s on the wrong side of 30. Meanwhile, the Sox have a 30 year-old, immobile 1B/DH signed for another four years. Maybe he will age gracefully. But that’s a risk I wouldn’t want to take.
I mentioned the Reds needed a proven .300 hitter. I said that in the context that the Reds’ bats have went south the last two weeks and it would be useful to have a guy in the starting lineup that was not prone to long slumps. I didn’t even bring Casey’s name up. Don’t drag me into that argument.
Personally, I liked the guy, (in his day) but he’s not coming back to Cincy, mostly for all the reasons you guys mentioned. Health, age and a big paycheck are major problems for the Mayor. I don’t see his returning to the Reds as even being an issue anymore. Its not going to happen.